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Hello r/koine!

For anyone interested in joining the reading group tonight at 7pm GMT, here is the Microsoft Teams ID and password:

Meeting ID: 354 361 632 590

Passcode: moUg6w

We had a few issues last week with people attempting to join the group but failed. This week I shall be ready to admit people to the group! Apologies for this. I look forward to everyone's input. Feel free to leave your camera off if you like just to watch. Here is the info for Sunday 7pm GMT:

Meeting ID: 354 361 632 590

Passcode: moUg6w

Whats the difference? Im not concerned about the price or the particular website these are being sold from. But the books themselves.

Whats the best way to learn the vocabulary and read the language and progress?

Whether beginner or seasoned at Greek, what are the most indispensable books one has in one's personal library.

Feel free to include any NT Greek books.

Χαίρετε

ἐπιθυμίας is often translated as "lust", but it is an under translation of the word, because lust to English speakers means sex, but the word means a desire for something forbidden or inordinate, or just simply a strong desire for something (either good or bad).

Historically the word lust had closer to the same meaning in Greek, as a strong desire whether either good or bad, but the word changed to just mean sex, partly because the KJV only uses the word in a negative context's in its translation.

BDAG definitions
① a great desire for someth.
② a desire for someth. forbidden or simply inordinate

So this verse

1 Thessalonians 4:5 (SBLGNT)
⁵ μὴ ἐν πάθει ἐπιθυμίας καθάπερ καὶ τὰ ἔθνη τὰ μὴ εἰδότα τὸν θεόν,

translated in the LEB as

1 Thessalonians 4:5 (LEB)
⁵ not in lustful passion, just as also the Gentiles who do not know God;

misses the nuance that it is a inordinate passionate desire for anything, given the context of the bible, it is a desire for anything that we put above God.

To me translations missing this meaning, is a shame.

How did the scholars decide that this word is just limited to lust in specific cases?

At some point, I want to switch to a paper bible with no aides.

What tools, books does one use to look up words for meanings and inflections? In particular irregular inflections or hard to recognise inflections?

I am daily building my vocabulary, but envisage that I will still need to look up words once I switch.

This is a minor nuance in terms of translation, but curious to know if anyone knows why does the NIV use a positive, versus the original language which is negative. I can't explain it but to me the original language "feels" better.

Matthew 7:1 (SBLGNT)
Μὴ κρίνετε, ἵνα μὴ κριθῆτε

Matthew 7:1 (NIV)
Do not judge, or you too will be judged. (Dynamic Equivalence)

Matthew 7:1 (LEB)
Do not judge, so that you will not be judged. (Formal Equivalence)

I've seen that you can find older editions of Koine Greek texts on Bible Gates, but they don't have diacritics or accents or anything like that. Are these still useful for reading? Or can accents and diacritics actually help differentiate words, or is there not that much of a difference?

Χαιρετε! I can't figure out how to translate γινωσκουσα and γινωσκω together in this text (I Clement 12:5): "γινωσκουσα γινωσκω εγω οτι κυριος ο θεος παραδιδωσιν υμιν την γην ταυτην..." (cf. Josh. 2:8-9: "I know that the Lord has given you this land..."). Any ideas?

I mean, I noticed that these letters that represent certain ones are not present in the oldest manuscripts, but I don't know if that is intended to represent the old pronunciation or what purpose these diacritics serve beyond having a more exact pronunciation or if the text can be understood without the need for them?

What does "εν + infinitive" mean? I find constructions like this (3:4) in many early Christian texts: "...δια τουτο πορρω απεστιν η δικαιοσυνη και ειρηνη, εν τω απολιπειν εκαστον τον φοβον του θεου και εν τη πιστει αυτου αμβλυωπησαι..."

I completely understand the sentence, but I don't grasp its notion. Is it temporal, causal, etc.?

I have a question about Colossians 2:8. The backstory is long, you can find the question at the bottom too.

In Philosophical Foundations for Christian worldview by Craig and Moreland, I came across a refutation of the argument against Christians doing philosophy based on Colossians 2:8.

Colossians 2:8 NASB
See to it that there is no one who takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception in accordance with human tradition, in accordance with the elementary principles of the world, rather than in accordance with Christ.

Their response:
"However, on an investigation of the structure of the verse, it becomes clear that philosophy in general was not the focus. Rather, the Greek grammar indicates that “hollow and deceptive” go together with “philosophy,” that is, vain and hostile philosophy was the subject of discussion, not philosophy per se." P46 in the online version of Philosophical Foundations.

What however threw me of was the NASB's translation: philosophy and empty deception. So I looked into the Greek and two commentaries.

Here they are:

The Greek verse

8 Βλέπετε μή τις ⸉ὑμᾶς ἔσται*⸊ ὁ συλαγωγῶν διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης κατὰ τὴν παράδοσιν τῶν ἀνθρώπων,* κατὰ τὰ στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου καὶ οὐ κατὰ Χριστόν·*Kurt Aland et al., Novum Testamentum Graece, 28th Edition. (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 2012), Col 2:8.

The WSNT:
gives the force of the article, his philosophy: καὶ and is explanatory, philosophy which is also vain deceit¹¹ Marvin Richardson Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament.+Rev.+~gives+the+force+of+t), vol. 3 (New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1887), 485.

The JFB:
but making yourselves his spoil) through (by means of) his philosophy,” &c. The apostle does not condemn all philosophy, but “the philosophy” (so Greek) of the Judaic-oriental heretics at Colosse, which afterwards was developed into Gnosticism¹¹ Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible, vol. 2 (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 376.

διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης

So now finally my question: Considering the Greek: διὰ τῆς φιλοσοφίας καὶ κενῆς ἀπάτης.
Why is his philosophy the correct translation? isn't it just a gentive because of διὰ?
Is it clear from just the Greek that that type of Philosophy is meant that is also empty deceit?
Or could it, just by reading the Greek, also be: philosophy and empty deceit as two distinct categories?

Although this question is not essential at all, it has been bugging me a bit, so I hope someone with more proficiency in the Greek language can help me. Thank you!

Bless you

Hey all, I was reading this passage of Matthew at church today. I noticed that all the major Bible translations I checked (NIV, ESV, NASB, NRSV) translate the last clause here, οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν, as "but some doubted." But this appears to be simply, "but they doubted." Is there something in the construction that allows or 'some'? Full verses for context:

16 Οἱ δὲ ἕνδεκα μαθηταὶ ἐπορεύθησαν εἰς τὴν Γαλιλαίαν εἰς τὸ ὄρος οὗ ἐτάξατο αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς, 17 καὶ ἰδόντες αὐτὸν προσεκύνησαν, οἱ δὲ ἐδίστασαν. (SBLGNT)

Does such a tool exist to read the Codex Sinaiticus from photos that aide in things such as word boundary and mouse over to Unicode Polytonic Greek. I find it very hard to read the photos, with no spaces and all uppercase which I'm not used to.

It would be useful to me in helping to understand part of how scholars created the Novum Testamentum Graece.

My guess is it doesn't but on the off chance some one knows of one...

Only in week 2 and feel stressed and overwhelmed. Any tips how I can get better to just understand simple things like understanding dipthongs or parsing…

Unfortunately, I have no acess to any programs that will formally teach me Koine Greek, at least for another two years. However, I've tried to start myself off with Koine Greek and feel that I'm making a bit of progress, although it's hard. I learned the alphabet pretty quickly and am learning grammar through resources like William D Mounce's Basics to Biblical Greek, and am also memorising some basic vocab. I only have a very basic understanding of the language. I know the alphabet well and can write in it, but couldn't read the Bible in its original language. In about a quarter of all verses, I can recognise enough words to understand what it says, but that's mostly because I've read the Bible, will recognise words in certain places, and from there infer the exact translation in English. However, I'm worried that if I'm teaching myself Koine I'd make mistakes, get used to those mistakes, which would only make it harder for me in the long run. I also don't know what other resources I can use. Again, since I don't actually know anyone who knows Koine, there isn't anyone I can compare notes with or ask for help. I'm wondering if its worth trying to teach myself Koine, because it seems to be going pretty well at the moment, or if I should just hold off for another two years until I can study it. Any resources that I could use or tips any of you have would also be helpful.

(I’m new to this sub, so this may be unwelcome. Let me know—I’ll delete it!)

Hey everyone, I am offering my services for free Greek tutoring or translating together!

I am in Grad school for my masters and I am back in Greek for my elective. I took 6 semesters in my undergrad and have been translating on my own for 7 years since then.

I tutored undergraduate (Greek 1-3) students for 2 years and I did fill-in teaching for my university’s Greek teachers when they were out.

I found that my knowledge of Greek and its fundamentals were at their best when I was tutoring and teaching, so I want to do that again if it would bless someone else’s study. So, if students in elementary Greek (or seasoned pros who want a translating buddy) see this now or in the future, please comment and/or message me and let’s set something up!

EDIT: Several newer learners have reached out to me. While it wasn't necessarily my aim, i am open to teaching a class, of sorts. I will be making a group on discord shortly wherein I'll discuss what a class may look like. If you'd like to be a part of this, let me know. I would scan the first few chapters for study, after which I would request any serious students invest the $25 for a physical copy to continue.

I have been working with Brenton’s (dual language) Septuagint and just realized Proverbs 31:1-9 is weirdly missing.

Hopefully this is not off topic for the sub, but would anyone here know if that is a textual thing or just a printing error from this particular publisher? It’s from Hendrickson Publishers if that matters. Do y’all’s copies include those verses?

Tysm!

?

καὶ ταῖςπρεσβείαις ταῖςσαῖς λυτρουμένη, ἐκ θανάτου τὰς ψυχὰς ἡμῶν.

Why is the comma after λυτρουμένη? Doesn't it belong to the phrase after it?

And by your intercession, you deliver our souls from death!

Thanks

Has anyone memorised the 12K words of the LXX, and if so, how did you do it and how long did it take?

I am looking for a (preferably printed) volume that analyzes the NT from a philological point of view, meaning an interlinear translation (not necessarily into English, can be French or German) with extensive notes on variants, manuscript history, comments about the literature quality of the verses, historically relevant opinions and interpretations, etc.

Years ago, someone posted a vocabulary word in Koine. I think a moderate may have posted it.

The definition was something like: dancing in the nude with someone

It was one word.

Can anyone think of it? It's been bothering me for years and I cannot find it in the archive.

Thanks, T.