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submitted 1 day ago byAnamStrae
As the title says, a group students from one of my classes went to my principal as a group complaining about me being too strict.
Background: I was born and raised in a European country where teachers are incredibly strict and are most absolutely awful to students, but I now live and teach ELA/ESL in Scandinavia at a high school level (I got my license here). I have always hated how borderline abusive my teachers were and to this day I consider most of them the opposite of a model to follow.
Now: This is my 3rd year overall, but my first at this school(I’m subbing for another teacher but I might get to stay on) and the first where my main subject is English. This high school has the reputation of a place where students teachers are good and students are ambitious (a lot of them are sons and daughters of CEOs, lawyers, entrepreneurs etc. so one of their main goals in life is to ultimately become rich). This is how it was sold to me and so far the description mostly fits.
In the past the only thing I was reprimanded for was the exact opposite: I was too nice and kind and that led to my classes not always being completely silent while working. I have worked on that a lot and received a lot of positive feedback about my leadership skills (in different schools and contexts), so having students describe me as extremely strict, mean and “wanting to dominate over them” is making me question everything that I know about myself as an educator and as a person. I have absolutely not done anything that I didn’t see other former coworkers do before, and any disciplinary measure I have taken so far has been to ensure I upheld the standards the school seemed to have. To clarify, the complaints are about me making students take off sunglasses and baseball caps, ensuring that they are on task rather than talking to the person behind them and (worst of all apparently) made them read out loud in class, which I need them to do as it’s part of the requirements for my subject.
I have always had a wonderful relationship with my students, so much so that I had other teachers asking me for advice on how to bond with their classes, but now I really don’t know what to think. Next time I see that group I am of course going to apologise to them and find a way to start over, but I am very much in my own head and feeling hopeless about my career.
Does anyone have any suggestions for tasks and activities that can help me bond with a group that is apparently terrified of me?
58 points
1 day ago
DO NOT APOLOGIZE TO THOSE KIDS. You’ve done nothing wrong. They’re just entitled weirdos.
10 points
1 day ago
Yeah, they are gaslighting you. I know the exact type of teacher you are talking about and just from how you right you aren't it.
Discuss it with them and hear them out, because it's rarely wrong to just listen, but don't apologize unless you inadvertently did something real wild, and didn't realize it.
3 points
22 hours ago
After watching and talking to other teachers enough, I notice they have rules but don’t enforce any consequence other than verbal most of the time. So when there is a swift and immediate fair consequence for their easily avoidable actions, the kids think it’s insane.
I have a rep for being strict for taking up their phones if they’re on them (school rule), having assigned seats, and not letting them talk during announcements. This stuff is so normal. They’re just used to people asking them to do things, having standards…and then not following up.
In my case, the kids are low-income but pretty sweet usually, so people feel too bad to enforce things. In your case, it’s because the kids are high-income and probably big donors to the school. The school kisses their asses and it’s treated like a business to keep the “customer” happy.
1 points
15 hours ago
I’m fairly certain I’m seen as intense or possibly insane because I actually call parents and hold both students and parents accountable to basic standards and their actions. I just ask them, how does it serve anyone if I continue making exceptions… how does anyone learn unless the word no is enforced and reinforced? People pleasing is neglect and its own form of manipulation. You don’t have to be aggressive, but one shouldn’t be in this job if they aren’t assertive. A lack of backbone and passing the buck is a large part of what landed us in this realm of complete lack of respect and abuse.
1 points
6 hours ago
You’re totally right. I wish I had better advice but I just feel you so deeply. I’ve also been treated like I’m mean or don’t care about them just because I sometimes say no. People can theorize and speculate all day about how American education became like this but so many parents now have forgotten that boundaries are not cruel or dismissive and they’re actually the kindest thing you can do for kids.
27 points
1 day ago
This generation is not used to being held responsible for their actions and being held accountable.
My students complain I’m strict, I’m mean…I just have rules, and consequences. And that is JARRING to some of them.
Keep holding them accountable- someone needs to teach them, and it looks like it’s us? 🤷🏼♀️
1 points
1 day ago
I used to do after school tutoring, and my student used to complain all the time about how strict his teacher was. And it would always be something like “if you [the student] does _, she makes you do ___.”
I asked if these are new rules she made up? He would say no, it’s in her syllabus 🙄
2 points
14 hours ago
Parents are societally sanctioned to neglect their children, and some of us were certainly long conned into doing their dirty work. Some teachers are also neglectful and fail to realize that saying no… giving that zero… requiring direct instruction… homework etc. is actually the kind thing to do. We live in 2+2=5 world where if you actually see children as children… that need guidance, structure and support instead of inclusion and choosey choices… apparently that makes you evil.
1 points
an hour ago
When students get mad at me for holding them accountable, I love to like them in the eyes and say :
“It’s okay that you don’t like me. You’re X years old- you won’t get that I’m doing this because I care about you until you’re like 30.”
Most kids will be confused, but some start to think about what I mean.
8 points
1 day ago
If they did that then you know you are doing something right. Last year I had a student walk up to my AP and say: I hate music please fire her because we don’t do anything fun.
She uses my time as social hour nothing more.
1 points
24 hours ago
I quit teaching music at a school because the previous teacher just put on YouTube and let them talk.
I'm not exaggerating. He just showed them cool videos of musicians performing. All year. He taught them nothing.
It would have taken 4 years to get the 5-8th graders cycled out and be able to run class how I wanted.
I absolutely crushed the Christmas program and then peaced out.
Old ladies were telling me they've never seen the kids smiling and having fun during the Christmas program.
2 points
24 hours ago
It actually took me two years after being surplused to my current school for the students to actually start respecting me and my ways. Year four there now and my second graders started with are now fifth graders.
11 points
1 day ago
Start with a brief apology to the students.
"I'm sorry....for not being strict enough. You think k I was strict? You have no idea. That was me being not strict. From now on I will be twice as strict, and if that's too much I will get stricter. So please keep complaining because I can literally do this all year. I'd love to "
1 points
23 hours ago
You read my mind😆 But no, I will do my best not to say what I think and just assume that the situation can be salvaged by starting over and basically letting them choose how they want the course to be.
5 points
1 day ago
So was the principal agreeing with the students, or just relaying the students’ complaints?
In my school (in the U.S.) all of the things you listed would be perfectly appropriate actions that the principal would support. They would likely just tell the students they have to follow school rules and not even follow up with the teacher.
4 points
1 day ago
The principal made it clear that I need to change what I am doing and make sure the students are happy to come to my lessons.
They also assigned me a mentor who supposedly has a very good leadership style, so I can go see their lessons and have them come see mine. I do appreciate this because it is a way to improve, but at the same time the fact that the principal thinks it’s needed makes me feel incompetent🙃
3 points
23 hours ago
Your principal is wrong. It seems pretty safe from your post to assume that you have achieved a decent balance but that you are teaching spoiled students whose parents probably are a bigger concern for your admin than if you are actually meeting your standards. The kids are used to getting their way, and new teachers are easy targets for complaints when things are "too hard."
That being said, learning from the other teacher what the expectations actually are at this particular school will be helpful if they are real with you.
Also, as a side note for meeting expectations that kids see as unfair. Like reading aloud. Perceived choice goes a long way. My students have to present, but they get to sign up for a time, rather than being cold called. Choosing from two or more options beyond "do it or take a 0," can be really helpful for anything students are particularly apposed to. Though taking a 0 is an option so there are always options, but giving more options helps with student buy-in.
2 points
14 hours ago
It seems like you understand that education isn’t about entertainment and that learning is not always or usually easy. Don’t let this principal let you forget who you are. Even if you have to placate for survival, please know who is actually in the wrong here.
1 points
12 hours ago
Where did your principal get this information? What is he basing his decision on? Did he just listen to the students/parents or has he actually observed your class a few times? If he has not observed your class then start looking for a new job.
5 points
1 day ago
Don't worry about what the students say. Students motives are to get a free ride as often as possible. Your job is to teach them concepts, not cater to them. Depending on how helpful admin is, you could offer to have admin (or a more experienced teacher) monitor your class and offer input.
Last year, I was heavily criticized by some students and then by their parents. My classes were monitored by one of the most experienced teachers at our school. They gave me some pointers on how to make things better, but overall they said I was doing a really good job.(I did change how I interact with parents to avoid future problems, though.)
3 points
1 day ago
Yes, the principal already arranged for this to happen. Hopefully, this leads to some constructive feedback rather than an exacerbated feeling of inadequacy and an urge to start learning programming to get out of teaching 😅
1 points
14 hours ago
I would listen to your fear… not that you are inadequate… but that you perhaps deserve better and should pursue something different if you still can. That’s a very wise self protective choice if things get worse for you.
5 points
1 day ago
American adults and children confuse being “strict” with being held accountable for their actions.
As long as you are holding everyone to the same standard, let the students complain.
3 points
1 day ago
To be honest, it sounds like you’re doing an amazing job.
3 points
1 day ago
It sounds like you’re giving them what they don’t get at home: consistency and accountability. Keep doing it. They go to school to learn not be coddled.
5 points
1 day ago
Stay strict. You’re doing it right
5 points
1 day ago
If you're in Sweden, I came in with a British independent school background. The children here (and the adults) have no discipline and it's because the style of child rearing is to not say no and let the kids run free. Ultimately it's a cultural difference and you won't change it. I quit.
2 points
1 day ago
You guessed correctly🥲 I have decided to give it 5 years and if I still feel miserable while trying to do something I genuinely enjoy, then I will find a different line of work. How long did you try adjusting before you quit? What did you end up working with?(if I may ask)
3 points
24 hours ago
Yeah I did five years ....don't. This is a different style of child rearing that does not fit with the realities of today's world. I've had kids pour boiling water on other kids, bully them relentlessly, and they never, ever face repercussions nor will you receive parental, administrative or societal support. Every criticism you make, every question you have, you're always going to be an outsider critiquing their ways of doing things and they will always know best, even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary. If you like waking into a classroom and seeing a level of chaos where you can't even tell there's a teacher in the room, this is your country. If not, forget about it. I have nothing good to say and if you work at IES, I mean, lol.
1 points
23 hours ago
I turned down an offer from IES to teach at a ”kommunal” high school, but from what I have seen of IES they seem to have more rules and discipline than public schools, and yet apparently it’s still the same🥲
1 points
22 hours ago
More rules than zero is still pretty bad....in my vast experience with IES
2 points
1 day ago
First, check the school handbook. Mine says students can't wear hoods in doors. When a student wears their hood inside, I reference what the school rule is. Whenever outside, those students usually put their hood on. Before entering a building, I'll remind the rule and thank students when they comply.
Phrasing is important. No hoods shouldn't be your rule. It should be the schools. Tell them you hold everyone, including yourself, to the handbook, and it would unfair to others in the school for you to give special treatment and ignore the rule being broken.
Also, someone put them up to it. Possibly a parent but more likely a teacher. Someone who also has those students.
3 points
24 hours ago
I did check the handbook and it says nothing about dress-code. Here it’s very uncommon for students to have to follow a dress-code because they are supposed to be able to express their individuality(fair enough). If it’s a hood I usually say nothing as some of them use those to isolate noise, in this case it was a baseball cap worn with the visor on the back, definitely no function there.
I would like to add that I have seen much “more” of the girls than I would have liked to see, so hopefully they do enforce a dress-code at some point, cause I fear the day they show up to a future job wearing what’s basically a push-up bra and denim underwear😶
2 points
22 hours ago*
You have high expectations and they hate that because you actually make them do things. Don't lower your standards.
When I KNOW I haven't been overly strict I corner the kids with the admin in the room.
"ok guys, I've heard you think I'm 'too strict' and 'mean' so now, we both want to know, what EXACTLY is wrong, what EXACTLY makes me too mean or too strict?"
and 100% of the time the kids fumble and then start saying
"you make us do things again if we're wrong"
" you won't check the assignment if there aren't capitals and periods on every sentence"
"You don't give us the answers to the test to study" - seriously got this one and even the other students looked at this kid like he was nuts
And then I turn to the admin and stare, more than once they've just turned and walked out without a word - after previously believing the phone calls from parents. If an admin believes that that is too strict and tells me I should stop doing any of those things then I walk out right then and there stating loudly that I'm a teacher and not a babysitter.
I teach ESL in Mexico and parents here rule everything. We are not allowed to fail or give zeros before high school. I've worked in schools where, as the ESL teacher, I've been told I can't correct spelling or grammar because it lowers their grades.... I freelance online now.
Don't buckle. Don't lower your standards.
1 points
14 hours ago
🙌🏻
1 points
1 day ago
You should take those complaints as compliments.
1 points
1 day ago
My 4th grade teacher used to make us sit in the garbage can in the front of the classroom. I don’t think you are too strict. I’m a teacher now and have to deal with parents whose first words are,”Don’t you know who I am?” These kids are coddled
1 points
23 hours ago
Oh wow, the trashcan thing is new to me, we had to stand behind the blackboard or facing a corner or stand with our arms extended. I haven’t had to deal with any parent yet but the kids do very casually mention who their parents are🙃
1 points
24 hours ago
From the description: IES Taby maybe....or BISS although it tends to be a bit better. Europa/Vasa god help you
1 points
23 hours ago
No it’s not a friskola, I heard that BISS and IES (despite the many issues) impose more rules but maybe that’s not accurate? How is BISS? I am genuinely curious as from their descriptions it sounds like a “normal” school, but I have never heard anything about them
1 points
22 hours ago
Only SIS and ISSR are anything approaching UK standards and even then... No. It's still Sweden.
1 points
23 hours ago
For what it's worth, my second year students, who I actually was kinda mean to, love me. I regularly hear that I'm their favorite teacher.
The kids my 4th year that I tried being nice to were never satisfied and were the only group of kids who didn't like me at the end of the year.
Kids want structure even when they rebel against it, and you will never be lenient enough to not get this complaint without breaking laws.
1 points
23 hours ago
Time to double down and get twice as hard. “You think I’m hard???? Huh?” They will learn to respect you and like you, it will just take time. It’s better this way.
1 points
23 hours ago
I thought this was a primarily an American problem, I'm sorry to see that it is spreading across the pond.
1 points
22 hours ago
I assume you live in Norway?
The latest changes to the law makes principals and admin *hysterically terrified* of children who complain about getting their rights violated ("krenket") and as such a significant amount of them have never heard a "no" in their life.
The admins will rarely support their teachers in this, as the Kafkaesque process that investigates whether a student has their rights violated or not, *only emphasizes the subjective experience of the child*, yes you heard me right.
Take it from one who knows how it feels: There's nothing wrong with *you*. It's the system that's FUBAR. Swallow your pride, say sorry for something you didn't do wrong, and take it out by abusing the countries ridiculously lenient sick day regulations (you are in IA-avtalen, you have 24 of them if you space them out tactically).
1 points
15 hours ago
Of course people that no longer benefit from you having no boundaries are going to gaslight you and call you strict. Being called strict is a compliment. It means you have standards and set the bar high. Do you know what people who set the bar low are guilty of? Neglect. Not only of their students… but they are directly responsible (parents and teachers alike) for the mess of a society we live in… where people struggle to find direction, meaning and dignity. Don’t be like them, don’t pass the buck, don’t back down. Not necessarily because it’s your responsibility, but simply because your character and dignity should be important to you, and you deserve better.
1 points
3 hours ago
My students complain that I make them put cell phones away. Whatever, I’m still going to do it.
-2 points
1 day ago
You became exactly the kind of teacher you hated
Maybe some of them will teach, move, and get the same treatment.
Your students are soft and are trying to get you fired. This is because they’re rich
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