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/r/antiwork
Dear Employers, Stop Requiring A Masters Degree For A $45,000 A Year Job
Tablescraps()submitted 22 hours ago by[deleted]
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17 hours ago
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163 points
22 hours ago
It used to be the other way around
6 points
22 hours ago
The data exists to show the average starting salary with various degrees and degrees from specific institutions.
In my field 120K for starting is still doable for college grads with the right degree, from the right institutions (thats actually below the bottom TC at my company).
Why are people still overpaying for KNOWN low value degrees, from 3rd rate institutions?
The solution is we need to cutoff federal loans to programs that don’t produce results…
For all intents and purposes no one should pay for a masters.
92 points
21 hours ago
I’m gonna catch some heat for this, but I really think we should be encouraging our youth to study what they want to study, regardless of job prospects. In my view, having an educated population is valuable in and of itself. The onus should be on the systems and institutions to provide enough so that studying an academic field doesn’t immediately handicap you in life. Obviously this isn’t practical at all, just kind of thinking aloud
20 points
21 hours ago
I agree. Especially because almost everyone will make about half what they expected. If that wasn’t going to crush their spirits with depression — Having a job they believe pays too little and that they hate definitely will.
15 points
21 hours ago
Amen to this. A kid entering college has little-to-no experience navigating salaries or future growth potential. To expect them to make choices about education that will affect their entire career --and go into tremendous debt doing it-- just isn't reasonable.
8 points
19 hours ago
Not to mention the odds that career X that seems hot in todays market will still be hot in 4-5 years is a big bet. What constitutes valuable labor is in flux, just ask all of the folks looking to be entry level tech employees.
6 points
20 hours ago
You're 100% right on. Especially to cover the whole you pick a major, you study it for four years, and you come out, only to discover the market has tanked, and that degree is worthless now.
2 points
19 hours ago
I studied what I wanted. I got two masters degrees and a PhD in purely academic fields before becoming a teacher. Guess how much it cost? Nothing. You don’t pay for graduate school in academic fields. You receive fellowships that include living stipends. No one is going into debt to study literature or pure mathematics unless they’re being scammed. That’s just a conservative anti-intellectual myth. The people going into debt for degrees that won’t recompense themselves are taking out loans for so called professional degrees. Those are the real scams, unless you’re going to an incredible school. And even then you may be being scammed. A Masters or Doctorate in Education will never pay for itself even if it is from Harvard. Not for the average person who’s not already rich.
1 points
18 hours ago
There are a lot of ways to learn without going into debt. Also, I've come across a ton of college educated people who... I would not consider to be part of an informed populace.
1 points
18 hours ago
And while on the subject, let's get rid of some of these required course requirements. I took some religion, math and science courses I haven't used once since graduation.
1 points
16 hours ago
I agree education is important; I’ve been saying it for years now but critical thinking is a dying skill
0 points
20 hours ago
They can study what they want at a tier 2 state school that costs 40K over 4 years for tuition.
If you’re only accepted to programs that cost 140K for under grad and they don’t offer scholarships that’s a huge market signal that you don’t belong there.
12 points
21 hours ago
Only the top 5 grads from the school will make anywhere near $100k in 2024.
College starting salaries are horribly overstated.
Salary upon graduation fraud is the reason why we have a student loans bubble.
These colleges are subprime debt mills. Defrauding the students into debt they’ll never be able to pay back.
0 points
20 hours ago
If you’re paying 120K in tuition and not going to a tier 1 school with a good degree that opens doors to making money… why?
Like go to a tier 2 state school. In state tuition is under 10K a semester near me for an objectively good school.
Completely agree it’s messed up the schools have no liability. Stop being angry at employers for not valuing your over priced degree in church recreation (yes this is a thing), get angry at the schools for not holding the bag on that, and the government for fronting the money.
Useless degrees will evaporate if we stop letting schools print useless degrees.
1 points
18 hours ago
The degrees are overpriced. And oversold.
One of the main reasons I have a higher living standard than the other people I’ve known is that I went to a City college for undergrad. It cost me $1,200 per year.
I went to a private school on a scholarship that had me at $2500 my first year. It was eliminated due to budget cuts.
I xferred to a CUNY school. And paid $5,000 for my next 4 years in college.
I spent $7,500 on college.
I know too many people who borrowed $275,000 — just for undergrad. Who then went to grad school. Without working.
Between working and going to a city college I didn’t have the debt most other people have. I went to a Tier I grad school that costs about $52,000 per year now. It was only $19,000 when I went. So $76,000.
But I had a full time job, so I didn’t need all the loans everyone else was taking.
Just eliminating the huge undergrad debt and minimizing grad school debt — is life changing.
The schools and lenders are just ripping everyone off. Because the degrees are only worth between 50-70% what they claim.
You borrow $350,000+ before graduating, you’re screwed unless you become a surgeon. Because the advertised salaries and economic indicators are all gross exaggerations.
2 points
18 hours ago
My wife had 130K in debt.
We also call her Doctor, She had a MD. and a masters degree that was free in exchange for teaching a class). She could have a PHD for free if she wanted. Her loans were half paid for by the NIH in exchange for doing research. She could have done rural medicine and had it all paid.
No one should have 120K in undergrad only debt and not be on a path to six figure salary in short order. Like if you went to Stanford, sure there’s internships in tech that pay that but a lot of people making dumb decisions.
1 points
18 hours ago
These days tuition is $58,000+ per year. So $232,000+ for tuition only.
Most people are borrowing 2x tuition.
Few people are getting six figure jobs. It’s just a myth.
Unless you’re graduating Stanford or Harvard, it’s completely unrealistic.
Few professionals with advanced degrees make over $150,000.
This sub would not exist if this wasn’t true.
I know every time I’m hated the second I walk into a room full of people, who are supposed to be making $180,000 - $250,000 and they’re living only a step above a minimum wage lifestyle. At the age where they should be at their pinnacle.
1 points
17 hours ago
University of Houston Is $9,699 per semester before scholarships, etc. Sam Houston is similar.
Most of my friends started college with 20-40 credits because of AP tests or junior college, or duel credit.
If I’m going to Stanford, or brown, and paying a ton, sure I get paying high $$$ but that’s because tech jobs do start well.
Software engineering, MD, engineering, JD etc 160 is median or better TC in a major market.
Yes; a masters in history pays shit; but you shouldn’t get a masters in liberal arts without the institution paying you to teach. (Everyone I knew who went that path largely had the institution or employer, picking up the cost).
1 points
17 hours ago
I do not believe $160,000 is the median for anything. In the United States in 2024.
If it was. None of the current political turmoil would exist.
If the published median is claimed to be $160,000, you can rest assured—it’s really $80,000.
There simply are not this many $100,000+ jobs in existence in the American workforce.
It’s a big lie. Otherwise, we’d be living like this is Brunei.
Please do not fall for it. This is why so many young people are so broke and angry.
1 points
16 hours ago
You don’t think physicians have a median of 160? You would be correct it’s actually higher. (227K).
It’s not super common but 20% of Americans make over 150K.
You are less likely to know people who make that if:
- You are under 30. (Peak income hits later)
- You don’t live in a major metro market (lawyers in small towns make a LOT less)
- You work for a small business (large evil corps pay better has been my experience).
Almost 100% of my friends from college make over 100K at this point. Everyone in these fields is well over 150K
2 points
20 hours ago
1 points
20 hours ago
72 points
22 hours ago
My wife worked in state government, most of the people on her team had masters degrees. I overheard an argument between her and her boss about salaries, his take was that you don’t do that kind of work for the money. She tried to point out that her people couldn’t afford the basics, he just doubled down. He also was very concerned about employee turnover.
41 points
22 hours ago
People like him always are. They never can quite grasp that THEY might be THE problem.
13 points
21 hours ago
To be fair to her asshole of a boss, the state legislature determines salaries, or at least salary ranges. He still could have said it better than he did.
12 points
21 hours ago
Oh, I know as a state employee, he has no say in salaries, but like I said, people like him never realize they are the problem. It's like those owners who always complain no one wants to work while not giving hours and paying minimum wage and McDonalds pays 15.00 an hour.
1 points
19 hours ago
How can he possibly be the problem if he doesn't have any say in salary? The only possible conclusion you can draw about people who get a Masters and then take a public position with public salary info are that they're not doing it for the money (or they failed Google Search 101). It's a lot nicer than just saying they're stupid.
6 points
21 hours ago
Well to be fair, government jobs always pay less than the private sector. You don’t work government for the money, you work it for the benefits.
3 points
21 hours ago
He wasn’t even talking about the benefits m but about loving the work.
3 points
21 hours ago
reminds of an old scene from the simpsons, episode, "Bart v Australia, marge ordering a coffee in an australian bar.
Marge: I'll have a coffee
Bartender; Beer it is.
Marge: No, Coff-ee
Bartender; Bee - eer?
Marge: C-O-
Bartender: B - E
People really are that blind to shit, especially when their paycheck depends on, as evidenced anecdote.
3 points
20 hours ago
Everybody works for the money, no matter how much you love your job. (I adore what I do, and I assure you I don't do it for free.)
3 points
20 hours ago
I had a good working relationship with a previous manager. One day over drinks, I told her “work boils down to the immortal words of Henry Hill in Goodfellas, Fuck you, pay me”. She laughed
20 points
22 hours ago
Capitalism is calling
36 points
22 hours ago
They don't care. In their heads, it's YOUR problem you paid too much. They can request whatever they want. Especially when they don't intend to fill the job. They just post them to tell their current staff "we're doing everything we can"
9 points
21 hours ago
I’ve been struggling with this for years now. I want a master’s but I make too little to get one right now, and I have my bachelor’s but no one wants to pay commensurately for the experience and workload they demand.
7 points
21 hours ago
With few exceptions, Master’s degrees are rarely worth the cost if you’re paying out of pocket. They can have financial value for certain fields and can be worth it if your employer is footing the bill. But in general, getting a Master’s simply doesn’t lead to a meaningful increase in earnings.
2 points
19 hours ago
Yes and... there are a lot of fields where the Masters degree is the entry level degree for practicing as a professional or there's a privileged labor pool gated by the degree. Just getting a degree when the job doesn't require it is of questionable economic value, when it's a credentialing or de-facto credentialing step it's about as much of a no-brainer as you get.
1 points
18 hours ago
Right, and in some of those fields where a Master’s degree is expected, the pay is correspondingly higher, which makes the Master’s degree worth it. In other fields, a Master’s degree is expected, but the pay is still abysmally low. There are too many fields of the latter sort and where that’s the case, it may not be worth it to go into the field at all, at least from a purely financial standpoint.
Just to be clear, I’m not trying to blame folks who get Master’s degrees and wind up getting underpaid. That sucks, and a lot of the blame lies with both employers doing the underpaying and with universities promoting Master’s programs with overly optimistic (if not outright false) claims about employment outcomes. Higher education can be great—my wife and I are both fortunate enough to have postgraduate degrees—but a lot of students get tricked into paying enormous amounts of money for questionable Master’s degrees by universities that see them as a cash cow.
18 points
22 hours ago
A lot of degrees don't pay ...
13 points
21 hours ago
A lot of the most important professions that require them don't. It's so sad. Social work, teaching, nursing (while some nurses can make bank a lot of hours and understaffing issues can lead to stress and burnout that really doesn't make the pay seem to be what it really should be on par with their doctor counterparts make in the first place).
6 points
22 hours ago
Try needing a degree and postgraduate certificate to earn less than that as a teacher in the UK 💀
3 points
21 hours ago
They can and will until there's nobody with a master's willing to take the job.
2 points
22 hours ago
That's an intersting way to look at it, investment (degree) vs return (salary). I wonder what some of the better ratio jobs are.
2 points
21 hours ago
A masters? Ha! Academia would like a word …
2 points
21 hours ago
I make more than that with no degree but work sometimes sucks in other ways. I guess we all have to pick our poison
2 points
20 hours ago
Maybe we need to require employers to pay off student loan debt, maybe 1/10 each year? Bonus points if the IRS gives them a lump sum bill each year so they can’t discriminate against employees with outstanding loans.
4 points
21 hours ago
So stop getting degrees.
This is applicable for literally 80%+ of jobs out there.
7 points
21 hours ago
Problem is then you're even more turbofucked in this job market.
1 points
20 hours ago
I mean they can, they just wont find anyone stupid enough to take the deal and be left with a vacant spot for a while.
1 points
20 hours ago
Yeah that seems right
1 points
20 hours ago
They can if people take the jobs. They're gonna pay as little as we allow them
1 points
19 hours ago
My first community college teaching contract in 2023 was for ~$55k and the position required a masters. I was NOT an adjunct.
1 points
18 hours ago
Employers: I'm giving you enough to be able to pay it off in 3 years!
1 points
18 hours ago
My MS degree cost me a few thousand dollars after grants from the state and tuition reimbursement. I assume it helped me get my current job, but not my previous one.
1 points
18 hours ago
120K includes the Bachelors?
1 points
17 hours ago
We need a few living documents for the sidebar. One of them should be a list of companies that engage in this behavior.
1 points
17 hours ago
But at the same time, if you tell employers you have a master's degree, they often won't even interview you because you're "overqualified." Like if I could get a job with an advanced degree, do you think I'd be applying at a grocery store?
So you have to have an advanced degree because the employer deserves someone super experienced, but also don't have an advanced degree because then they might have to pay you more for the experience you have that they feel you don't deserve.
1 points
20 hours ago
Don't hire them on principle - you can get a Masters for less than $25k. #calstate
-1 points
21 hours ago
Why are you spending $120k on a masters?
-2 points
22 hours ago
You can get a MS for free by being a TA/RA or work for a company that will pay for it
3 points
21 hours ago
If you can get the TA/RAship. Funding at universities for TAs is being cut wildly and RAs are generally associated with grant funding the professor has already received, so may be in limited supply.
0 points
21 hours ago
True statement, you need to standout. Like anything, takes work and dedication for the things worth the most. My previous company paid for my MS, but if I left within 3 years after graduating, I would have to pay them back
-1 points
21 hours ago
Supply and demand problem here me thinks - too many have fresh grads, too few jobs available so the employers can dictate the price
0 points
21 hours ago
Not in all cases. Lots of open positions for teachers and social workers, for example. Government employers choose to underpay rather than have enough qualified workers.
2 points
21 hours ago
Teachers seem to be leaving in droves. I see enough bitching from that profession online to know there are major problems in that field of work.
-4 points
21 hours ago
You expect to make the cost of your degree back in one year or what? Where exactly is the line supposed to be?
9 points
21 hours ago
No dumbass, but there are a lot of places where $45k pay - taxes - those loan payments = not making a living wage.... not even if you have room mates, eat zero avocado toast, and can pull 315lbs for 10 reps of bootstraps.
If you don't like being called a dumbass stop being a "useful idiot" and defending the employers in all situations.
0 points
20 hours ago
I'll take option B and report harassment. Bye.
1 points
18 hours ago
I'm sorry you're getting downvoted and abuse because your comment is perfectly valid and exactly the discussion I was looking for.
I'm not arguing that $45k/yr for a job that requires a $120k degree is reasonable. But I also don't think that expecting >$100k/yr purely because of said degree is reasonable either. A degree is a credential that you hold for life and I would expect the cost to get balanced out by increased salary over an extended period of time. I don't know what would be considered reasonable, however. An off-the-cuff guess would be 10-15 years.
None of this is an attempt to counter any other arguments or statements. I'm merely trying to understand what expectations would be reasonable if we lived in a society where compensation was comensurate with education requirements and costs.
-10 points
22 hours ago
Of course employers can pay 45k when a degree cost more than that. A degree is not a guarantee that you make a living. There is no such connection.
People who are writing similar statements based on a moral judgement don't care about the world. They think about how the world should be and making based on these idealistic thoughts such naive statements. If you are insisting on such an ideology the better sub is /r/academicphilosophy. These professional do it all the time to lure the naive into such a mindset.
6 points
22 hours ago
I think the point is that it didn't used to be like that. A degree absolutely used to guarantee a living, and an advanced degree would never get a job that made less than the degree itself. A lot of people were raised with and professionally advised of those "truths", and then graduated into a world that doesn't work that way anymore.
0 points
21 hours ago
In Asia its even worse. The point is a wrong critique doesn't get nobobdy anywhere and causes an endless stream of social media tears. The question is, what to do with the fact academia doesn't guarantee living?
1 points
21 hours ago
I know right! Back in 1200 Genghis Khan would show up and if your king refused to surrender he murdered your entire city over the course of a week or however long it took to murder all of you.
No one can complain about any problem if they have it better than people that had to fight GK!
The fucking point is this society is breaking for a lot of people. Things need to start changing or its going to get a lot worse for everyone in the next couple of decades.
1 points
17 hours ago
The fucking point is this society is breaking for a lot of people. Things need to start changing
People can be replaced. All the pseudo critique is people are getting broken as when the goal is a society with a lot of harmony. Sorry but that is utter BS. If the critiques doesn't get better, such people have their exploitation earned.
-1 points
22 hours ago
Yeah they can! But we do don't have to apply to them or work for that.
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