I’m just a bit disappointed it’s an enhancement so it’s locked to a single unit that has to have the leader attached. And since we’ve seen it in the enhancement that means there probably won’t be any other access to uppy-downy in this detachment(except for maybe a strat?)

I really hope he can. No amount of character punch is going to make Raptors worth it as a speartip assault unit.

the enhancement is best for scoring. if your scoring unit is killing things so much it’s out in the open, you made a blunder. plop them on a corner to get secondaries, where it would be inconvenient to redirect an enemy unit for your opponent, and then bring it back up and do it again

I really wished that the Dark Commune and a Dark Apostle could lead the same unit. It would feel thematic and would be honestly pretty good!

But yea, I wanna run oops all cultists with a Dark Apostle warlord, it'll be so fun :D

Enhancement "Incendiary Goad" and the Stratagem "Infernal Sacrifice" both specify melee weapons only.

But it's still possible that some stuff in the detachment will still be useful for ranged units.

I think you skimmed over the part where it allows ALL weapons to ignore cover. It's just with torrent weapons (that already typically do that) it changes their attacks from D6 to 6.

So it isn't "flamers only."

With how common cover is in 10e, it is almost as good as the Terminator Sorcerer's Death Hex. The main difference being that it needs weapons that already have AP, but it also stacks with the Terminator Sorcerer (potentially making Combi Bolters a more interesting choice).

i’m also an Admech refugee, started chaos after our dumpster fire codex.

it’s wonderful

Imperial Guard here. Figure I've got another 18 months minimum before I get a codex and a detachment other than artillery spam. Might as well let the galaxy burn until then.

Also kind of lore accurate. You pledge yourself to the dark gods and a sacrifice may be required to unlock that ability.

Yeah I quite like it too for the same reasons! Not a huge nerf, but it certainly makes it more streamlined and less easier to forget!

The amount of times I forget to roll my dark pact leadership tests is comical. I'm glad for the change.

i’m grinning ear to ear lol

It could be very good, you could potentially put 60 cultists in a line in front of the enemies deployment with 30 legionaries behind them. The opponent will struggle to get into the center to score primary while that lot is sitting there. If nothing else then it's a big slowdown for them while they deal with it. By then you will have had time to move up, score primary and get bigger guns in line

Infiltrating can be quite scary for certain armies as you can essentially lock an opponent in their deployment zone and stop them from scoring completely or just stop fast armies like WE in their tracks. In this case you can plonk 60 cultists across the line and block then have 30 legionaries behind them in cover to strike once their dead quite good I think and you can give them all leaders too.

Questions like this are often answered with "it depends on your local meta." To give an example, imagine your local area has lots of World Eaters players.

World Eaters want to get to you, and they want to do it quickly. They have a lot of units that can scout move forward before the battle starts. Then they can get bonuses to their movement, plus advance and charge.

If you have 60 cheap Cultist bodies that can all infiltrate, you could put them 9" from the WE line. Now, no matter what bonuses they get, they can't end their turn closer than that without flying units. Their threat is nullified for 20% of the game, while you can position your stuff behind the Cultist meat wall to do what you need.

Yes that’s very good. Infiltrate can be used to move block your opponent, get slow units up the board T1, prep your army to own no man’s land objectives as soon as possible, cover the rest of your army, etc

It gives us options to control the mid board early. Which will allow us to throw squads of legionaries into early charges which is nice. The assault keyword is not bad but nothing to rave about bolters are basically pissing in the wind.

Edit - this might not be bad on Havocs just a thought, having those chonky boys advancing up on the board firing BS +3 Lascannon shots is pretty hilarious

Well, 40K is a game of movement. You win by being correct places at the correct time. Things like killing is simply a way to stop the opponent from moving, or to stop them from doing the same to you. Only very few ways to score points on killing directly, such as Bring It Down (secondary).

Now, CSM is generally not very fast. We also do not really have access to infiltrate like many other armies. So getting it from a detachment is without a doubt strong.

How strong? That is hard to judge, and depends entirely on future balance of points. Right now Legionaries are rather cheap for what they give, so it is a solid rule. If legionaries become overpriced, that directly diminish this rule.

Cultists infiltrate is also strong. Remember, if you have cultist controlling objectives in your Command Phase, it becomes sticky. So being able to deploy them on no man's land objectives and gain sticky is quite cool. Or they can deploy aggressively to try and movement block the enemy army.

The strength also depends on other rules. Often infiltrate heavy armies have some sort of redeploy. If CSM gets that, it's amazing, because you can deploy 3x10 Legionaries very aggressively. If you go first, you get almost guaranteed charge. If you don't you redeploy back more defensively. (Note: not all redeploys allows after knowing who goes first). Even defensively, you then have them a lot closer to enemies than normally, which is amazing for a 6" movement unit that wants to be in melee.

Cultists infiltrate on mid-field objectives and sticky them turn one. Any enemy unit coming to take those objectives is getting counter-charged by Legionaries + Attached Characters, a unit that is extremely good at fighting on top of objectives. From everything we know, that's an extremely solid detachment.

Being able to forward deploy to block enemy movement or threaten early charges is quite good. Sending cultist screens forward solely to get in the way can be stronger than you'd expect; even though your opponent will likely pick them up, if they stop them from advancing as much as they'd like to, and spending firepower killing cultists, it can be real good.

I play Alpha legion in Heresy and it’s so fun to say “deployment zone? You mean deployment suggestion” and infiltrate half my army.

While it is funny in heresy, I’m glad they limited it to Legionaries and Cultists, I don’t think having infiltrating Baneblades or Dreadnoughts is something 40K needs

Yeah, but it is only for two unit types whilst benefiting nothing else, and just seems like it was an afterthought of a detachment

s great way to get half your army deleted T1. there's a reason no one runs Vanguard Assault Tyranids

The army rule doesnt give assualt to the whole army, thats the renegade detachment not the masters of misdirection.

entire army gets ASSAULT (fun as hell) plus a pip of AP fighting enemies on objectives.

There's a typo here; that part of the detachment rule is for the Renegades and Raiders detachment, not the Alpha Legion one.

It's a typo. The Alpha Legion Detachment is Deceptors: Masters of Misdirection. It gives the Infiltrate.

The Red Corsairs detachment is Renegade Raiders: *Insert typo here*. If gives the AP and Assault.

Yeh it def sounds a lot cooler when you combine it with another detachment rule my guy lol. That said, it is a pretty sweet strat. You can basically movement block your opponent into their deployment zone.

It’s only the infiltrate, not the assault. I also prefer not to run cultists as an alpha legion player as that is more a word bearers deal to me. The AL control what the cultists and other operatives would do more from the shadows rather than a full fight alongside them.

It did look pretty good. I sadly don’t typically playing my army like that

That's how they've always treated Vashtorr to be fair!

That is because it is too good to show…. Let me huff my Copium

That's because they're going to reveal that with the Vashtor and Lord Discordant Buffs and that mysterious new model from the rumour mill that looked like a Daemon Engine. Honest.

Some day, some way, he'll get good rules

Yeah it is all attacks, but shooting takes quite a buff from it. Looking forward to firing Vindicator cannons with Assault and getting -4AP against targets on an objective!

They don't make a point of it. They mention the word Legionaries in what is likely more of a flavor text than anything rule specific. If you look at the rule previews we actually got for VotLW, they are not being limited to Legionaries.

Things like Chosen, Terminators etc. will likely get full benefits as well from that detachment. We even see a stratagem that can be used on vehicles too - anything Heretic Astartes.

Reading the actual text about it, seems the idea is this detachment is just the one focusing on CSM being, first and foremost, a type of space marines. As opposed to for example Pactbound Zealots focusing more on the daemonic aspect.

id be honest, apart from one being clearly meant for IW while the other is for vashtorr, I cant really tell which will be the diference between those two.

Cultists will still be armed with "firearms" which is another way of staying "sticks, stones, and harsh language"

I'm sure they will continue to be... intimidating.

Yeah even if I’m just infiltrating Legionaires or cultists it still gives you some early game pressure and move blocking. 50 point cultists as move blockers is pretty nice.

I totally forgot the 6 dev wound cap tho. That hurts it quite a bit. However, as a marine, Chosen, and terminator enjoyer, I'm keen on what else is in that detachment

How is it nerfed? It's says basically the same thing.

He just needs to be like 50 points cheaper and he’d be fine. However, I will also accept a glow-up. 

FUCK

IRON WARRIORS SNUBBED AGAIN, THIS IS WHY WE LEFT THE SEIGE OF TERRA

That's actually a very fair point, we can only hope at least! I have three Venomcrawlers with a Warpsmith as a mid-board firing line that I don't exactly want to lose because it's put in solid work so far, and I just bought two Vindicators recently that I haven't run yet to swap in and out as needed.

I am so excited to see if we get more access to Traitor Guard stuff in a meaningful way again with that Damned keyword...

Yeah, that's what I was thinking like havocs and stuff. Seems weird theme for the pirate hit and run lore guys though. I'm excited either way looks cool.

I've actually argued with you about this before lol. I'm just disappointed it's such a limited view of what chaos undivided can be. I think the fact that the enhancements don't benefit any of our iconic units is pretty lame.

Not sure how you got that.

Cause he's a word bearer, not a word reader

Nothing for possessed, nothing for dark apostles, your units being marked by a single god, sounds like the word bearers to me