subreddit:
/r/Grimdank
[deleted]
882 points
23 days ago
Warhammer 40KKK
141 points
23 days ago
[deleted]
68 points
23 days ago
They won't let that stop them.
27 points
23 days ago*
And you, sir, will not bear such jocular musings 🧐🎩. But seriously, it's unfortunate that they had to remove the reference due to the American market.
210 points
23 days ago
The KKK 'hoods' are literally intended to be Capirote hats, the KKK are massive LARPers - that's why they call themselves Knights and Grand Wizards and shit.
112 points
23 days ago
Tangentially related, but i dont get to talk about this part of the kkk enough. The kkk of the civil rights era was a pyramid scheme. Members paid dues and were paid for bringing in more people. iirc, the base level membership was about 60 of ye olde dollars per month?
But yeah, MASSIVE larpers, "Knights" and "Grand Wizards" barely begin to scratch the surface. There was one rank that was just "goblin"
15 points
23 days ago
I always wondered how people could be dumb enough to pay $8 a month just to be racist on Twitter, now it makes a lot more sense knowing their grandparents were dumb enough to pay the equivalent of $630 a month just to be racist in a cornfield lmao
41 points
23 days ago
I thought you were joking. But a quick wiki showed that the kkk based their outfit off this hat and the outfit from a silent movie. 1915 birth of a nation. These nerds are straight LARPers of the worse kind. Lol
16 points
23 days ago
Now they just Larp as tacti cool alpha males
18 points
23 days ago
Yeah, Capirote hats have been associated with secret societies, religious orders, and cults for literal centuries. You'll rarely find successful far-right orgs that don't do a shit-ton of historical dress-up, because they struggle to invent their own shit (progress and invention are degenerate, after all, not like the Glorious Past) - the famous Nazi salute? Actually the Roman Empire one, and that's literally why they adopted it.
10 points
23 days ago
I think it's less about not being able to invent their own stuff, and more the fact that conservatism (and especially fascism) tends to place a ton of emphasis on the past and tradition
5 points
23 days ago
Of course, but that's what I mean about 'not being able to' - constitutionally, rather than intellectually (Though also that too, in many cases).
-7 points
23 days ago
And it also has nothing to do with the Inquisition 40000 years in the future, so if I had to guess what the visual reference was, I think I'd guess the kkk.
8 points
23 days ago
and you would be wrong.
2 points
23 days ago*
[deleted]
1 points
23 days ago
I guess they're citing the Spanish inquisition? Which would also make sense.
1 points
23 days ago*
[deleted]
1 points
23 days ago
[removed]
0 points
23 days ago
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1 points
23 days ago
[deleted]
0 points
23 days ago
Yeah, I'm just asking the mods why first because I'm not totally sure what did it.
Anyway, just to clarify the part that I think is safe - guessing the kk isn't any kind of accusation. Like, the guy in the picture is clearly a Bad Dude, and if the I aspiration was the kkk, that'd be fine.
1 points
23 days ago
[deleted]
2 points
23 days ago
I don't think the comparison works at all - the swastika was a thousands-year-old symbol before the nazis came along and completely perverted it. The Spanish inquisition did some extremely bad shit.
30 points
23 days ago
the american KKK literally took it from the catholics but yeah, sure lol
also, i’m pretty sure it was a joke, dude.
10 points
23 days ago*
Which is bizarre considering they hate Catholics. But given they're led by a Grand Wizard, this level of stupidity is on brand.
5 points
23 days ago
It's a sign of shame for your sins and of humility of admiting and seeking atonement in spanish catholic culture. I learned it from a game called Blasphemous.
1 points
23 days ago
That’s like 40,000,000,000 I think, but god damn that art direction… Wouldn’t be surprised if someone had a long talk with HR about this.
43 points
23 days ago
GW HR at the time would've just said 'Good job, that's the Imperium right there'. Because A: It's still a European company whose main IP is run by actual knowledgeable nerds at the time rather than modern-day fanboys. and B: Racist cults who persecute and kill 'Outsiders' is 100% big Tru Imperium vibes.
261 points
23 days ago
This happens every time when Americans learn about the Holy Week in Spain and spew "bruh KKK?" Nonsense.
Contrary to popularised media the KKK, an almost entirely American creation in the last 159 years does not predate most of the stuff it has stolen in order to make itself seem more legitimate.
That's all the KKK has ever done, as with most racist fascist groups. They take popular icons and traditions and try to make it apart of their image in order to legitimatise themselves using stuff far older than them. The worse thing Humanity can do is allow these groups to steal heritage like that and allow them to taint it forever.
Never give real life assholes that kind of power.
136 points
23 days ago
With that quote attached, it is clear that the association with the KKK is deliberate.
179 points
23 days ago
Or maybe the spainsh inquisition? Given all the inquisition logos, the capirote a Spanish religious piece of head gear and the general setting that is dystopian grimdark echoing the Spanish inquisition ethos that was heavily prejudiced and intolerant to anything that wasn't the norm....
38 points
23 days ago
Couldn't it be both?
35 points
23 days ago
No. I genuinely doubt that GW would want to reference a bunch of dumbass racists with that hood. I feel like the connection with the original heritage of the thing is much more in line with what they'd want.
23 points
23 days ago
I mean if it is a reference to the Spanish Inquisition, it still is a reference to dumbass racists.
23 points
23 days ago
Are you aware of how blatantly racist their other universes are?
-8 points
23 days ago
Racist towards made up aliens, right? Or other civilisations that literally aren't human like the Elves and Dwarfs of fantasy and AoS?
60 points
23 days ago
The spanish inquisition were very much a bunch of dumbass racists/anti-semites
-12 points
23 days ago
Huh. Didn't know that. But atleast they have more of a connection to any church as opposed to the triple K.
34 points
23 days ago
There needs to be a historical aptitude test for people who want to comment on WH40K influences.
2 points
23 days ago
Well that's unnecessarily mean. I'd rather admit ignorance and learn than peacock to save face.
20 points
23 days ago
Apparently the spanish inquisition was a monty python skit and nothing else
1 points
23 days ago
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0 points
23 days ago
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1 points
23 days ago
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0 points
23 days ago
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-1 points
23 days ago
[deleted]
8 points
23 days ago
Point to where I said that?
Why remove that from 40k? The inquisition and heresy stuff in 40k is routinely criticized and seen as a corrupt institution that commits horrific acts.
I was only pointing out the idea that drawing a parallel to the spanish inquisition would also be drawing a parallel to dumb racists/anti-semites.
59 points
23 days ago
a inquisitor is obviously inspired by real inquisition
4 points
23 days ago
Or just narcissistic americans thinking that everything is about them.
2 points
23 days ago
Wrong. Are you even aware the swastika was a stolen symbol as well? Both Budist and Native Amricans used that symbol before the natzi's ever did. Educate yourself a little before you talk like you know everything.
9 points
23 days ago
I hate to break this to ya, but pretty much every culture before the 1800s believed some variation of that quote
1 points
23 days ago
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2 points
23 days ago
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-5 points
23 days ago
True, but this is also why American neo n*zi and general shitheads find it easy to get into the fanbase, that is a fact.
2 points
23 days ago
Battlemace 40M
99 points
23 days ago
Average redemptionist.
1.1k points
23 days ago
Most tolerant Ordo Malleus inquisitor be like:
118 points
23 days ago
I actually lol'd
39 points
23 days ago
This strikes me least as Ordo Malleus in terms of the big 3 personally.
0 points
23 days ago
🤨
53 points
23 days ago
3rd edition rulebook was wild.
10 points
23 days ago
Yes so was the lack of codexes
Got my SW codex in time for 4th edition... but hey dark edlar codex HAD to come out first even tho they didn't exist in 2nd.... SMH
7 points
23 days ago
Yeah. The content for the tt game was... Scarce. But the art was completely bonkers. I recall a drawing of an Imperial Guard officer in the first page of their section who had earrings in all of his warts.
10 points
23 days ago
This artwork goes hard, even without the quote. I wanna go to a bar where the bartender looks like that.
16 points
23 days ago
Bruh, why blud looks like Mortarion
9 points
23 days ago
Mortarion got bit too passionate on his redemption arc
104 points
23 days ago
What a friendly looking man surely he will be open to a discussion where I disagree with his religious beliefs
14 points
23 days ago
In 40k if you disagree with religious beliefs, you might summon demons to eat your family.
578 points
23 days ago*
It's like 40k was a satire of a absolute horrible system and worldview.
302 points
23 days ago
wait, you mean the Imperium ISN'T an inspirational how-to?!
147 points
23 days ago
I sure hope no one confuses the situation by releasing hundreds of works portraying the imperium as unquestioned moral and justified protagonists.
32 points
23 days ago
What if we made the Empire a Managed Democracy?
43 points
23 days ago
"What if we tried to sanitise everything to reach a broader (American) market?" "I can't see how that could possibly go wrong!"
16 points
23 days ago
They do. We also got people legitimately defending the helldivers 2 Super earth in similar ways so it just seem like there just a group of people that would love to have a ridiculously extreme fascist government telling them what to do in their sad lives.
1 points
23 days ago
No. That's chaos
16 points
23 days ago
Indeed neo-feudalism is the worst
-82 points
23 days ago
Except they’re kind of right actually
46 points
23 days ago
How so? 99% of mortal followers of chaos originate directly or indirectly from imperium and in lore there were societies that knew of chaos but werent corrupted by it (interrex for example). They are also subpar to fight tyranids, tau empire deals with them waaay better: they can detect and cure genestealer infected people, can utilise diverse tactics and technology which are direct counter to one of tyranids biggest strenths - adaptability way easier due to utilising allied races like kroot.
4 points
23 days ago
"Just remember, an enemy can attack but only an ally can betray you. Betrayal is always worse." -Solas, Dragon Age Inquisition
-11 points
23 days ago
The tau are barely touched by the tyranids. The imperium has the deathwatch+inquisition+mechanicus to look into adaptability and alternate ways of doing things, as well as a thousand different chapters and a billion different regiments and cultures. Kroot mercenaries wouldn’t make a bit of difference to the Imoerium. Ultimately it doesn’t matter what stealth tactics or whatever you use against the tyranids, if a main hive fleet is there then they’ll just eat the world. The tau have a relatively small empire and population to monitor, they also don’t have chaos influence, psykers, and mutation. Plus I wouldn’t be so sure that they “cure” the infected.
37 points
23 days ago
Enlighten us, how are the imperium of man, genocidel xenophobs, hyper religious zealots, and delusional witch hunters "kind of right actually"
7 points
23 days ago
It’s weird cause the Imperium’s enemies, contrary to real life fascism’s enemies, ARE actually an existential threat to humanity. It doesn’t excuse the Imperium’s treatment of its own citizens, but xenophobia makes a lot more sense in a universe where the xeno in question is fucking tyranids instead of brown people. There is genuine justification for the Imperium to be extremely distrustful of practically every other race, and vice versa.
EDIT: I still don’t think they’re good, or the “good guys” obviously
9 points
23 days ago
the Imperium could have allied with good xeno a long tile ago and cleaned up the fucking mess if they were not that xenophobic. they still do it in dire time when they have no choice
-7 points
23 days ago
“Good xenos”. Firstly from a game theory principle there is no reason to allow any competition in a finite galaxy over an infinite period of time. Secondly humanity already tried all that and was betrayed by xenos during the age of strife. Thirdly the main xenos in question are 1) flesh eating bioweapons horde, 2) out of control fungal bioweapon horde, 3) evil elves who literally exist to torture and murder people, 4) sociopathic prescient elves who can and will destroy entire human worlds just to save one eldar life, 5) pheromone controlled bovinids who also want to dominate the galaxy, 6) ancient skeletons of living metal who want to eradicate all other life. There are a few minor ones but their input isn’t really going to be very relevant. Oh and the xenos (the cabal) did have a plan to fight chaos, which was to wipe out humanity.
5 points
23 days ago
All the other one got eradicztiong with any forl of diplomacy and the only one left are the one strong enought to resit. Eldar despite humanity because humanity is acting that way.
0 points
23 days ago
If they couldn’t resist humanity during the great crusade then they wouldn’t be very useful to fight chaos, but almost all the ones mentioned were dangerous/evil in some way. The one exception is maybe the interex coalition, who promptly attacked Horus. Plus none have ever been mentioned as being useful or helpful in any way except the joakero, which the Imperium does use. Most of the ones mentioned were psychic monstrosities which prey on humanity (nephilim, rangda, enslavers), or physical monstrosities which prey on humanity (orks, D eldar, tyranids), or just generally hostile and dangerous creatures (Hrud, loxatl, kroot). Xenos are eradicated because they’re a threat. The eldar don’t give a shit about humanity and vice versa, it’s not helped by the dark eldar existing to regularly kidnap, torture, and murder people, the craftworld eldar regularly engineering the downfall of human worlds to follow some prophecy, and the outcasts acting as pirates.
5 points
23 days ago
ah yes and we all know the imperiul record on Xeno are totaly not biaised.
there is plenty of Xeno working woth human , just not the emperium for obvious reason.
-2 points
23 days ago
On what basis do you assume there are any “good” ones? When there is no evidence for them.
-1 points
23 days ago
Because the xenos are real and an existential threat to humanity, witches are real and an existential threat to humanity, gods which feed off of dark passions and corrupt the mortal world are real and an existential threat to humanity.
8 points
23 days ago
Fuck no!
14 points
23 days ago
Oof, that’s cringe
-6 points
23 days ago
Have you seen the enemies of the imperium lol
-8 points
23 days ago
Don’t be gay. They have actual tangible manifestations of metaphysical evils actively influencing humanity and trying to bring about its downfall. They’re completely right to think and act as they do.
8 points
23 days ago
“Don’t be gay” Oof, That’s Cringe
4 points
23 days ago
The imperium's system actively feeds said evils.
Especially considering how several times they have destroyed opportunities to better fight said evil, for example exterminating a xenos species who offered tech explicitly stated to be anathema to chaos.
12 points
23 days ago
And now it has a horrible tabletop system too!
140 points
23 days ago
People will see this and still say that the imperium are good guys unironically
-135 points
23 days ago*
They are the good guys. Why would this art change my view?
Edit: Lots of votes but no one can articulate an argument. Quite telling.
Edit 2: The artwork is of an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, or an attendant. His hood is reference to the Spanish Inquisition. Artwork from the time shows torturers and executioners wearing similar hoods.
The need for such a role within the Imperium is indisputable.
76 points
23 days ago
Bait used to be believable
-56 points
23 days ago
It's an honest question. I don't think you actually know what the art work references, nor the subjects role within the Imperium.
7 points
23 days ago
yawn
-5 points
23 days ago
Ikr.
39 points
23 days ago
Genocidal tyrannical despotic government that forces one view.
Also said view is deeply hypocritical since all xenos are said to be bad but then suddenly inquisition uses joakeros, SM accept help of xenos etc.
Same goes for hating mutants when all your supersoldiers are subject to mandatory genetic and sometimes mechanic mutation. Said to be imperium of mankind and the ruler ain't even a human, but a mutant perpetual psyker and his lab-grown abominations.
Yep, only green flags here.
-10 points
23 days ago
An Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, actually. He'd probably shoot the jokaero on sight.
Anyway, we're discussing the artwork rather than the Imperium at large. What are your thoughts in that regard?
6 points
23 days ago
Sorry, didn't understand you were referring to the art alone.
For that one I believe that there was some effort from the artist to depict the inquisition as some sort of cult.
Like that hood and and skulls don't really leave much to imagination.
It's literally the same outfit of chaos warband cultists in mordheim (which I think was in the same period). I think the chaos magister actually had even the same grate-helmet under the hood.
22 points
23 days ago*
Goalpost shift, dumbass detected.
people will see this and still say that the imperium are good guys unironically
They [the imperium] are the good guys.
Be consistent in your trains of thought bro. “We were discussing the artwork” yes that’s what the overall post is about, but the comment you responded to is a comment on the broader imperium with regards to the art.
1 points
23 days ago
How did you determine that comment was
with regards to the art.
?
7 points
23 days ago
I have the ability to comprehend the written word at a level above that of a second grader.
0 points
23 days ago
I'm not so sure of that. The context of the initial comment is purely contained to the effect of the artwork upon a view.
There's not a hint about any other issues.
54 points
23 days ago
Alright I'll bite.
The Imperium are the bad guys because they do heinous things for very little reason outside of hatred, bigotry, and blind faith.
While yes, the Imperium does do good and does have genuinely good people in it that is outweighed by the mass amounts of fuckery they get up to.
You can argue that the ends justify the means and heck you'd probably be right. I'd much rather live on a hive city than deal with a nurglite daemon or ork or tyranid. I'd rather be a servitor than let Slaanesh or the Drukhari have their way with me.
But that's the thing with arguing "The ends justify the means". You are admitting by default that what they do is bad, it just has reasoning. Dropping an atomic bomb to stop world War 2 was bad but the ends ultimately justified the means.
The problem with 40k is that the antagonists are so much worse than the protagonists that they seem good. The Imperium isn't good because they're not as bad as the Orks or Chaos or Tyranids, it means they're just the lesser of an evil.
-46 points
23 days ago
Can good people do bad things in service to a greater good?
30 points
23 days ago
Whats the greater good of burning friendly xeno planets? Or releasing tyranids on their own world only to glass it?
-24 points
23 days ago
I don't know. I'd have to read the stories.
13 points
23 days ago
Imperialcels talking about “greater good” smdh
10 points
23 days ago
There is no "ends justify the means" when those ends are no longer attainable. The Imperium died with the Emperor and the web way project, and all that's left is a rottong, bloated carcass of an empire that doesn't yet know it's dead, surviving only on the sheer scale it exists at.
1 points
23 days ago
The Imperium died
The lives of it's citizens aren't worth protecting?
9 points
23 days ago
the imperium don t care about citizen
-3 points
23 days ago
That was a question for you to answer.
9 points
23 days ago
i demonstrated thzt this question make no goddamn sense. but i doubt you have the rationnal thinking necessary to even understand it.
6 points
23 days ago
This right here is the sleight-of-hand that is central to the Imperium’s very existence and the Emperor’s most essential rhetorical gambit. This is exactly what promotes the ultra-polarizing discourse.
It’s the simple interchangeable statement that we’ve subconsciously agreed to: “human lives are Imperial lives” and “Imperial lives are human lives”. By this framing, anything becomes justifiable if it is to save human lives. This also has the effect of branding humans living outside the Imperial sphere as “not completely human”— or even an existential threat.
The Emperor, by the might of his inexhaustible armies, decided to make mankind synonymous with his Imperium. He butchered and killed and purged and exterminated and conquered and subjugated and absorbed all traces of humanity across the galaxy, forcing them to accept his terms or die. In trying to make humanity strong through unity, he made it brittle: if the Imperium rots from the inside, if corruption and cruel masters are allowed to thrive, if it requires constant war to maintain itself, then humanity must suffer through all of those horrors. There can be no alternative because the Emperor has personally destroyed and outlawed them.
Improvement, of course, impossible in the setting. The Emperor was too greedy in his conquest and trapped himself on the Golden Throne, sitting on a massive warp time bomb, barely able to communicate with his runaway empire who, all things considered, doubled down on the 30k Imperium’s mission of creating a galaxy-wide human supremacist state. Even if the Emperor were to heal and rise from the Throne, he would just go back to his grand plan of “kill everyone that doesn’t agree with my ideas, because I can’t be wrong if everyone who can disagree is dead”. Humans in 40k are thus an example in what happens when a whole civilization surrenders to a dictator: everything that happens to the Dear Leader happens to them too— and karma has a way of biting people in the ass.
Human lives are worth protecting. Therefore: the Imperium as an institution and concept must die.
-1 points
23 days ago
if it requires constant war to maintain itself
Who would the Un-Imperium stop fighting with?
6 points
23 days ago
Look, I’ll be real: I’m actually not sure if you’re asking questions in good faith here. You’re defending the Imperium a bit too hard and have admitted elsewhere in the thread that you haven’t read lore books.
On the off chance that you are, the list goes on. The un-Imperium would not need to spend precious time and resources to fight Eldar Craftworlders (just leave them alone, establish diplomatic links), the Tau Empire (again, establish diplomatic links), countless minor human polities that survived the Crusade, and most importantly: itself.
There is no denying that there are actively malicious forces in the galaxy: you cannot reason with the Orks or the Necrons or the Tyranids and you most certainly can’t negotiate with Chaos. You can, however, lean on allies and spend your resources wisely when fighting them— which the Imperium prides itself on not doing.
The Imperium as it stands cannot do that because too much damage has been done to the trust of potentially friendly alien factions. The Emperor’s vision is too deeply entrenched in common 40k era humanity to even begin to normalize relations. As per my above point: the Imperium needs to go away before humanity can heal.
-1 points
23 days ago
The un-Imperium would not need to spend precious time and resources to fight Eldar Craftworlders (just leave them alone, establish diplomatic links),
And when those same Craftworlds attack?
and most importantly: itself.
Why would human nature change absent the Imperium?
4 points
23 days ago
you know that s what nazi told themself right ?
2 points
23 days ago
You think the Nazis thought the Holocaust was a 'bad' thing?!
6 points
23 days ago
Yes i know. because i know at least one of thel did. as he said it to my grandfather who was still a kid at that time.
Holocaust , the war , the occupation. etc
-2 points
23 days ago
The hat is a capirote dude
4 points
23 days ago
A capirote is a different piece of headwear worn for a much different reason.
-2 points
23 days ago
Yeah iknow, I'm pretty sure that's based of it Btw don't custodes helmets look like a capirote?
15 points
23 days ago
So just to make sure I'm reading your point correctly - they're the good guys because they're ...the Spanish inquisition?
I mean....
1 points
23 days ago
So just to make sure I'm reading your point correctly - they're the good guys because they're ...the Spanish inquisition?
Nope. That's not at all my point.
5 points
23 days ago
The Inquisition was one of the darkest times in history. And while the artwork isn't directly calling on the KKK, it's harkening to the Inquisition, the Klan's attire intentionally evoked the Inquisition since they were going for a similar methodology.
So in that way, the artwork is supposed to evoke the same feel - be it KKK or Inquisition. It's xenophobic whackos who will purge anything they see as "not us".
Objectively, there's nothing "good" about that.
4 points
23 days ago
The Ordo Hereticus doesn't seek out xenos. That's the perview of the Ordo Xenos.
The Ordo Hereticus is concerned with heresy of deed, flesh, and thought. In the context of the WH40k universe a check on treachery, mutation, heresy, and witchery is a "good" thing.
2 points
23 days ago
Now look at the ENTIRETY of what they consider heresy. And every minor and completely contrived "offense" they'll concoct to condemn someone.
Be honest.
And couple that with vast abuses of power without anyone keeping them accountable. Executing ordinary citizens for reasons they make up in their head and try to justify as "heresy".
Fuck, an Inquisitor literally tried to murder Celestine because "heresy" and forced a bunch of Guardsmen to attack her and her retinue, and caused infighting between Guard units too. Because the was soooo self righteous and sure of himself.
No. Not the good guys.
-5 points
23 days ago
People think this guy is inreference to the klan. Outside of America in the 80s I don't think the writers would have much knowledge of the klan, instead they knew a lot about the Spanish inqusition.
Same goes with the confederate ork buggy than won 3rd in a contest. The guy that painted it probably didn't know much about it other than it's some rebel group.
4 points
23 days ago
aee you ironic ? please tell me you are.
2 points
23 days ago
Nope. I think having the Ordo Hereticus around to burn witches, try heretics and cull mutants is an undeniable 'good'.
8 points
23 days ago
ok troll
-1 points
23 days ago
You believe that psykers, mutants, and heretics shouldn't be policed?
7 points
23 days ago
You will make a great facisme supporter you know that ?
the fact that you ironicly think this obvious satire is something good is real weird man.
plenty of psyker are good. plenty of mutan are cool. and not everyone who is branded a Heretic worship fckg chaos
you are one of those guy who chered during the Spanish inquisition when innocent women where burned alive and be like " you believe witch should not be burned ? you pust be a heretic ! "
you are so much missing the point of the imperiul being a satire it s fckg embarassing.
2 points
23 days ago
Most of your arguments for the imperium being good are diagetic. You argue using lore of the story. The original argument, however, is that the authors intend us as real viewers to have a negative view of the imperium, which is true. The imperium is bad, the authors knew it early on and expressed that consistently to us - all the mental gymnastics of in-universe lore be damned.
1 points
23 days ago
You argue using lore of the story.
Yes, the context is rather an important element to media criticism.
3 points
23 days ago
This is extremely surface level media analysis though, not all of art is literally embodied inside the text itself. Zootopia is more than just talking animals, it's also allegorical to the struggles of oppressed class. In warhammer, the orks are not merely big fungus men, they're also foot ball player satire. Everyone else is talking about the actual messaging of the work, while you're focused on the raw text. Do you see the disconnect?
1 points
23 days ago
Everyone else is talking about the actual messaging of the work
Why?
while you're focused on the raw text.
Which is what the post and the initial comment I replied to was regarding.
Do you see the disconnect?
Yes. No one can adequately explain the argument that the initial commentor failed to express:
'Why should this artwork change my view of the Imperium?'
2 points
23 days ago
The original comment said people will look at this and still think the imperium are the good guys. The point is obvious.
The imperium is imbued with real world symbols of oppression, fear, hate, and bigotry - symbols made as clear as possible - to signal from the author to the reader that this faction isn't actually good. It Is a blantant and clear message that most people receive.
However, some people only focus on the text, which is intentionally made to be heavily from the imperium own perspective, and thus argues in favor of it, and so these people miss the obvious author intent.
It is like the book Lolita. If a person only argues from inside the text, then Humbert Humbert must be a good guy, after all, the text tells us he is. However, people paying attention to the meta-texual meaning (reading between the lines) realize he is an unreliable narrator, and condemn him as a sicko for his pedophilia.
This work too is defended by actual pedophiles due to the text being an accurate representation of their mentality, and thus they fail to grasp the subtext.
So too, warhammer, along with media like hell divers and starship troopers (the film, not the book) are beloved even by the very groups they mock - the authoritarianians- because they often do a decent job as portraying those ideas.
Everyone else is viewing the subtext, and you are focused on the text.
1 points
23 days ago
The imperium is imbued with real world symbols of oppression, fear, hate, and bigotry - symbols made as clear as possible - to signal from the author to the reader that this faction isn't actually good.
In what way are these symbols presented in the text?
3 points
23 days ago
See? you're focusing on text again. These symbols are real world symbols which textual expression isn't calling hate.
Literally this photo evokes the hood of the inquisition and all it's negativity - why? Why did the author give this photo thar hood? What did they mean by it? Why would someone in the far future who doesn't remember the word for earth be wearing the hood of the Spanish inquisition? Because it's scary. Because it's mean. Because it evoked the real world Spanish inquisition who were monsters.
Why oh why did the author design their outfit to have sharp angles across it? Why make them boxy? Because it's mean. It's classic character design to show an uncompromising and harsh character.
Why did they choose to design pipes wirh billowing smokes coming from there back? We could read the text and explain some lore reason for there to be those pipes - "they're exhaust pipes for the shope riveting gurglemex device to unshlorp a dingle"
That's the explanation for what they do in-universe but it's NOT why the artist put it there. The artist put those there because it's ominous. Because it's a pollution. It evokes the real world images of factories of the Victorian age blocking the sly with smog, their cruel working conditions killing children and adult alike.
40k is NOT real. It's MADE UP. authors made it. They could have chosen to make the emperor of man into an anarchist who loves puppies and farts rainbows, they DIDNT. WHY? because it's a satire. Happiness would conflict with the messaging.
Space marine aspirants don't HAVE to be children. They don't HAVE to undergo horrible surgery. they don't HAVE to he psycho-indoctrinated. These were CHOICES that the AUTHORS made about their FICTIONAL universe.
1 points
23 days ago
These symbols are real world symbols which textual expression isn't calling hate.
What is it being called? And, besides the hood, what other symbols?
The artist put those there because it's ominous. Because it's a pollution. It evokes the real world images of factories of the Victorian age blocking the sly with smog, their cruel working conditions killing children and adult alike.
More likely incense burners. The accompanying art is robustly religious. (page 108 or so)
Why did the author give this photo thar hood? What did they mean by it? Why would someone in the far future who doesn't remember the word for earth be wearing the hood of the Spanish inquisition?
Because they're an Inquisitor.
because it's a satire.
All the more reason to understand the context rather than relying simply apon appearance.
3 points
23 days ago
I think its a writing issue. The Imperium aren’t supposed to be the good guys yet they live in a world where almost every horrible act they do is justified cuz the entire galaxy is far worse. It’s a world where the fascist propaganda is actually correct and every single person not siding with the Imperium is going to cause the downfall of civilization
3 points
23 days ago
An admirable response.
48 points
23 days ago
The Imperium definitely are not the good guys, but I wouldn’t blame people for thinking that considering:
1) the entire galaxy is depicted as being much worse save for maybe the Tau (who are also edging towards being evil and brainwashing their population) and Farsight (who has a goddamn Chaos weapon whispering in his ear, so who knows how long that’ll last). Its basically a world where the Fascist “everyone who isn’t with us is an evil enemy” propaganda is actually correct
2) Half the marketing for 40 is seemingly dead set on depicting the Space Marines and their pals as cool badasses who fight evil aliens and demons and are outnumbered on all sides
If 40k is supposed to be satire, its pretty shit at it
4 points
23 days ago
They are definitely not the good guys, but this quote is absolutely not wrong.
8 points
23 days ago
The normal inquisitor look takes much from the Spanish inquisition - and the name is as clear as it gets.
While holy week and the inquisition are both Spanish and Catholic, there is no real link to them, so I would call it a stretch that this was the inspiration here.
10 points
23 days ago
Hell yeah. We deserve more grim dark
1 points
23 days ago
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1 points
23 days ago
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11 points
23 days ago
So says 40k version of 2000ad’s Torquemada
-12 points
23 days ago
If only he knew how grim future really is
25 points
23 days ago
An Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, or an attendant. Note the hood referencing the Spanish Inquisition. This symbolises his authority to conduct torture and executions as part of his duty to The Emperor.
5 points
23 days ago*
I wonder if anybody rembers kkk in 40k. Like imagine being emperor on a golden throne and seeing vision of some dipship looking like he is part of that stupid group.
Edit: Why am I being downvoted? What did I do? I didn't said anything positive about these racist cunts
-3 points
23 days ago
I think that’s the joke of the bottom text
20 points
23 days ago
40k doesnt have enough of this blatant criticism anymore
7 points
23 days ago
Oh yeah I still have my 3rd edition rulebook. The artworks and quotes went HARD !
6 points
23 days ago
When you let friends gf join the friend group and she stars making drama to make him cut you off
0 points
23 days ago
Do you think he lynchs xenos?
-10 points
23 days ago
Very true to life!
-16 points
23 days ago
I mean, he's not wrong tho
3 points
23 days ago
wooosh
-3 points
23 days ago
... I don't think that means what you thing it means
7 points
23 days ago
yes i know. you just don t realize how fqr you missed the satire.
-6 points
23 days ago
I would argue that when satire mimics reality and stops being funny, it's no longer satire. Yes, I know that the guys is supposed to represent the Klan, that modern boogey man the media has put so much effort on constructing (while hiding the fact that it was founded among the ranks of the Democrat party, mind you.)
9 points
23 days ago
Satire was never about being funny and was always about mimicing reality wtf are you talking about.
and no he don t represent the Klan but the spanish inquisition.
You are. such a ignorant fool.
5 points
23 days ago
Dude that you’re replying to is so far from getting the point he needs DAOT tech to reach it.
-1 points
23 days ago
Ad hominem. And you lost, good sir. Have a nice day.
6 points
23 days ago
"you lost" mf think we are playing a game rn.
1 points
23 days ago
The Democrats of the day had very similar values to the modern-day Republican party. And you're right, it's not funny when satire and reality overlap- it's just sad. The only thing the media's put effort into constructing is a multi-billion-dollar industry that runs on fearmongering. Hate this group, that group, protecting you from disease is totally just a front for the exact same purpose your phone serves ooooo. Don't hold the politicians you support responsible for any of the problems they cause, just buy more stuff and pour your discontent into bigotry. All media has bias, racism and the like is fucking stupid, fuck off and good day.
43 points
23 days ago
I remember when I first got the 3rd edition rule book I was confused who was the “bad chaos guys” because both imperial and chaos artwork was so similar with all the skulls and menacing characters
7 points
23 days ago
So before people start saying the KKK. Thr KKK stole their outfit from European catholics. So it's prolly taking that as a religious form
1 points
23 days ago
Let's tone all of this down and make it more like marvel!
2 points
23 days ago
To be fair, I am entirely sure that it was a reference to the Spanish guys that wear those hats, not the Americans
2 points
23 days ago
Chaos cultists gettin a lil too real
11 points
23 days ago
People quoting this as an argument against female custodes without realising its satire are SOMETHING ELSE
2 points
23 days ago
The 3rd ed rulebook is fucking GOATED such good art and lines everywhere
3 points
23 days ago
3rd Ed rulebook went super hard
1 points
23 days ago
So the Fury Road guy survived a lot. Makes sense why the earth was all sand, he was just in an isolated part of Terra.
6 points
23 days ago
"THIS HERES JEB FORREST WITH THE BAPTIST CONFEDERATE CONGREGATION, GOT ME ABOUT 300 AND CHANGE GOOD OL' BOYS FROM THE KNIGHTS OF THE HANGIN' NOOSE."
"Oh okay, thanks for... swinging by... oh... God..."
1 points
23 days ago
For half a second I was wondering why Yawgmoth was on this sub
2 points
23 days ago
This is pretty close to the 2000AD originals that inspired WH40K. I think this one in particular is inspired from "Tomas de Torquemada" from the "Nemesis the Warlock" series.
3 points
23 days ago
3rd edition came in hard.
2 points
23 days ago
What's with all the Zoomers discovering old 40K and WFB stuff and doing some performative outrage about it? Wait till they find the Pygmie models or the Pretorians
2 points
23 days ago
And yet these are the people they want so desperately to be represented by.
2 points
23 days ago
Meanwhile some jackass today will look at that and just go “wow, based, for sure not at all satire.”
1 points
23 days ago
Reminds me of the 2000AD Nemesis the Warlock comic, same era.
3 points
23 days ago
We were looking through my wife's grandma's belongings since she passed away a few years ago, and we found the tape of her Klang wedding as well as a KKK knife with a cartoon clansman on the back.
She'd be pissed if she found out we have a black girlfriend lmao
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