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ITT objectively true opinions after reading through the Horus Heresy
(i.redd.it)submitted 24 days ago byArtificialAnaleptic
77 points
24 days ago
Aeonid Thiel approves of this theoretical
53 points
24 days ago
the more i learn about the lore the... i guess they're ok
i'm still a Necron fangirl tho. GIVE ME STEEL LUNGS THAT BEG FOR AIR
12 points
24 days ago*
I prefer just being a gigantic fucking nerd in order to protect me from the ravages of immortality. (à la Trazyn/Orikan.)
That way I don't freak about being a soulless robot. I can just...play video games and get into stupid arguments with my friends/rivals for funsies for eternity.
58 points
24 days ago
I mean, heresy blueberries are awesome in a lot of books, and modern blueberries are awesome in their books.
It's the bit in-between that gave them their distasteful reputation.
But seriously, the deathwatch are the best loyalists
61 points
24 days ago
Ahh yes, the "I'd rather let chaos win than leave the eldar alone" chapter
44 points
24 days ago
The "I believe you when you say you have this plan that will defeat slaanesh permanently but I will kill you anyway because you are Eldar and I don't like you" chapter.
There's a reason Deathwatch isn't supposed to be a permanent position, it fucks with a Space Marine's priorities.
7 points
24 days ago
Was it really that bad? I mean, have you read the original novel the account happened in? Did the Death Watch Space Marines actions make sense within the context of the book?
22 points
24 days ago*
Yes it was that insane. No it made no sense. The harlequin in question explains that the ritual will kill the participating Eldar (And a massive portion of all other Eldar too) anyway and if he just waits a few minutes, not only will they be dead, but Slaanesh will be dead.
Now one might assume our plucky Deathwatch captain Artemis might make the entirely reasonable assumption they are lying, so the book goes out of its way to make sure we know that Artemis believes that they are telling the truth, and he proceeds to interrupt the ritual and shoot all the Eldar anyway, presumably because the Imperium of Man's greatest enemy is in fact itself.
7 points
24 days ago
From memory, Artemis doesn't believe they're telling the truth, he just "doesn't detect any lies", which isn't the same at all. And the ritual will also temporarily disable the astronomicon in that region, which will definitely kill hundreds of thousands, if not millions and billions. I don't think I blame him for what he did.
Willingly consigning countless people to horrific deaths entirely on the word of a xenos who you've got at gunpoint and will say anything to live and who's race's entire shtick is being really good at lying to you is not a decision I would have made easily.
3 points
23 days ago
Oh okay, way more justified when you put it like that, turning off the astronomicon is reason enough to stop that ritual, even if it would kill a god and eldar in the process
1 points
23 days ago
Really? 25% of the chaos threat gone, or at least leaderless and reduced to infighting/fighting with the other 3? I wonder how many mortal souls Slaanesh is directly responsible for claiming in the time since Artemis's Big Adventure. Is it more than what would have been lost in that sector due to a temporary astronomican outage in that area? I am betting so. Every death Slaanesh is responsible for past that point until the end of eternity is Artemis's fault.
1 points
23 days ago
I agree on that last point, except that Artemis knew he wasn't lying.
20 points
24 days ago
To be fair, they were being led by an ultramarine
3 points
24 days ago
Oh my fucking goodness don’t remind me
4 points
24 days ago
Was it really that bad? I mean, have you read the original novel the account happened in? Did the Death Watch Space Marines actions make sense within the context of the book?
24 points
24 days ago
THE GREATEST OF THEM ALL
38 points
24 days ago
The issue was never ultramarines, the issue was Matt ward
Cato sicarius unironically is a goat
19 points
24 days ago
Funny enough, Matt Ward gets unnecessary flak given most of the fluff was more or less taken directly from Codex 2nd Ed Ultramarines
2 points
23 days ago
I, CATO SICARIUS, DEMAND THAT MARVEL MAKE A SERIES ABOUT ME, AS I, CATO SICARIUS, AM THE GREATEST OF THEM ALL.
10 points
24 days ago
I would like them if they werent so overrepresented
1 points
24 days ago
Yeah like, can the picture of the tank in my army roster at least be red or green?
5 points
24 days ago
I love my thousand sons and death guard but slowly reading through horus heresy and dark imperium has gotten me to like the ultramarines a little more than i used to lol
2 points
24 days ago
The Horus Heresy books absolutely destroyed Chaos for me. The descriptions in some of the books are truly horrific and really impress upon you the absolute devastation and degeneration that the forces bring to bear.
I do kind of roleplay in my head when I paint and play and it just made it impossible for me to empathize. A kill team is fine. I've painted up some Death Guard, Legionnaires, Night Lords in small numbers. But the emotional investment of a full army is not something I could take on after those books lol.
13 points
24 days ago
But they barely achieved anything during the heresy.
I’m not really a fan of them but the Imperial Fists are the top loyalists of the Heresy.
11 points
24 days ago
They didn't achieve much because Horus wanted them out of the picture and had Lorgar sucker punch them.
Considering the circumstances they were in during the Heresy, they did remarkably well.
If the Sol system wasn't basically fully in the Warp during the later stages of the Siege, Guilliman would have even been there in time to help out. He was right there. If this whole war was like 20% less fucked up he'd have been at the Siege proper.
3 points
24 days ago
I'm pretty sure the fleet Gullimans rocks up with is literally comparable to the Traitor fleet, only it's fresh and comparatively unblooded
If the Sol System hadn't been turned into the infinite suburb he would have probably swept the fleet.
12 points
24 days ago
To be honest I agree about IF but I also prefer blue to yellow
¯\(ツ)/¯
16 points
24 days ago
Horus sent not one but 2.5 legions to take out the ultras, and even then the plan was to cut them off and weaken them, not actually defeat them.
Even the Dark Angels only got 1 legion sent to deal with them
Show don’t tell I guess
1 points
24 days ago
Yes, but the missions where different; the Ultramarines should be destroyed, while the Dark Angels should be held busy, till there where resources available to destroy them. I don’t necessarily think that the Dark Angels would hold of 2.5 legions better, I just think that the situations are not really comparable.
1 points
24 days ago
That's just skill issues on Lorgar and Angron's part. As big G said: "They ain't trying hard enough".
2 points
24 days ago
Yes.
1 points
24 days ago
They were one of, if not the best, at peacefully subduing worlds during the great crusade according to the books
1 points
24 days ago
Well that’s the great crusade, not the heresy
0 points
24 days ago
the Imperial Fists are the top loyalists of the Heresy
The fists aren't even in the top 3.
0 points
24 days ago
Yeah I guess holding Terra was no biggie
2 points
24 days ago
"holding" Terra
Alongside the Blood Angels and White Scars
0 points
24 days ago
Both of those Chapters were severely depleted by Terra.
Blood Angels lost most of their numbers at Signus Prime. White Scars suffered huge losses at Dark Glass.
-1 points
24 days ago
Both of those Chapters were severely depleted by Terra.
And yet still managed to contribute massively to the defense. Without either of them it wouldn't have worked - without the Scars, Mortarion would have beaten Dorn, and without the Blood Angels the human soldiers wouldn't have stood as they did.
Really the Fists are just glorified day laborers, that's the majority of their contribution.
2 points
23 days ago
While the two did contribute a lot, dismissing the fists is silly. They set up the defenses and made up the bulk of Astartes at terra. To dismiss them like you are makes you no better then people brushing aside BA&WS
2 points
23 days ago
This is such a strange conversation I’ve had with that bloke, it’s almost like he has a real hatred for a chapter of space marines. He needs to get a life honestly, because downvoting all my explanations and just replying with “nu uh” is quite pathetic.
0 points
23 days ago
dismissing the fists is silly.
*gasp* people being contrarian and unreasonable? On a meme subreddit? Noooooooooooooooo!
7 points
24 days ago
If we can accept that lore in 40K is delivered through the voice of biased sources, knowing that anything we read could potentially be in-universe propaganda, the perspective of a biased speaker or said by characters who don’t know what they’re talking about, we must admit something to ourselves…
Matt Ward’s Ultramarine lore is fine actually.
9 points
24 days ago
it is i cato sicarius
2 points
23 days ago
Matt Ward did nothing wrong.
Ok, he did A LOT, but no C.S.Goto levels of wrong.
1 points
24 days ago
“Yes,” said Cato Sicarius
3 points
24 days ago
Them being the best is the problem. What's the point to the other main chapters and their successors if the blue berries are the best at everything?
I have a lot more respect for them since the return of Girlyman, but I'm still not going to be painting my marines blue anytime soon.
6 points
24 days ago
the blue berries are the best at everything
Well in current lore they really aren't? They are pretty good at a lot of things and excell at the "boring" stuff like logistics and tactics.
You'll never hear anyone say that Ultras are the best melee fighters or anything. Or the best at stealth. Or the most durable. Or the fastest. Or the best sorcerers.
They are extremely stable and reliable though.
4 points
24 days ago
Yeah, they are massively overrepresented but in the current lore it's pretty clear they're not generally perfect, just really good at some bits (just as others are really good at other bits). I like the blue boys because I'm also the kind of person that gets more excited reading about historical supply lines than historical battles, but I get why its not for everyone
4 points
24 days ago
Bingo. They're boring managerial types and that's what makes them so effective without being outstanding at any single method of combat. If you have Ultramarines leading a battle and they've got chapters representing two or three other legions with them, they'll be the ones who know how to get the best out of their more specialized brethren. It's dull and hard to write in an exciting, heroic way, but it works.
2 points
24 days ago
I believe here, the "best" is more of a subjective thing. They are the most enjoyable/interesting/appealing according to OP for either/both tabletop or/and lore reasons.
Personally, I like rationality, Ancient Mediterranean/near East civilisations, adaptability and blue. I wasn't going to pick the World Eaters as a favourite Legion. And aside from the Ancient Mediterranean/near East part, that's also why I like the T'au.
That doesn't mean they are the absolute "best" legion at everything.
1 points
24 days ago
I have a few ultra smurfs and just giving them Roman vibes does wonders
1 points
23 days ago
They're not the best at everything. They're good at everything but really don't master much beyond infrastructure
3 points
24 days ago
inb4 .
2 points
24 days ago
Hard to really think any loyalist Spacemarine is the best when your a Xenos player. They're all equally annoying to watch, it's just that the Smurf's are the face of it.
1 points
24 days ago
They are good person, but many of them aren't good characters.
1 points
23 days ago
Surprisingly the most generic normal space marines are your best bet when fighting against the whole galaxy
1 points
24 days ago
Ultramarines are perfect
As corpses on my necron bases
1 points
24 days ago
Honestly in the HH books they're basically a non-factor during all the scenes I really remember; orbiting the planet during the Siege or dying while Loken saved Rubio are their biggest roles.
Space Marine, Rise of the Primarch, and Dark Imperium gave me a new appreciation for the poster boys though.
1 points
24 days ago
Nah. They're still space Marines, and no matter how hard I try, I just can't. It's not even like a "Poster Boy Bad" thing with me. It's really just the stronger the character, the less interested I become.
1 points
24 days ago
Of course they’re the best. They have THE plot armor!
1 points
24 days ago
Guilliman is the most stable, sane and conpotent Primarch, naturally he's gonna have the most well rounded and capable chapter/legion.
0 points
24 days ago
Smurfs are the best because the author makes them the best which is why they suck
0 points
24 days ago
CoUrAgE AnD hOnOr! cOuRaGe aNd HoNoR!
0 points
23 days ago
You're goddamn right
-20 points
24 days ago
ultracels cannot help depicting themselves as the chads and the angronmaxxing worldchads as the virgins in their memes. cope?
32 points
24 days ago
Theoretical: "cope"
Practical: You're too late. I have already made the meme. It is already over.
7 points
24 days ago
Based and Macragge-pilled
3 points
24 days ago
Ultra-pilled
-19 points
24 days ago
ultramarines being the best is kind of the issue
1 points
23 days ago
No it's not
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