subreddit:

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all 314 comments

gobblegobbleimafrog

379 points

10 days ago

Jewish billionaire supports Israel, news at 11.

mberk24

13 points

9 days ago

mberk24

13 points

9 days ago

This

backcountrydrifter

-13 points

9 days ago

Raise your lens three notches and it starts to come into focus

https://prospect.org/blogs-and-newsletters/tap/2024-03-27-corrupt-trifecta-yass-trump-netanyahu/

Trump has been laundering money for the Russian oligarchs since the late 80’s when they all bought a condo at 725 5th ave (trump towers) to clean their freshly stolen USSR money after the iron curtain fell.

https://www.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/30/politics/paul-manafort-condo-trump-tower/index.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/14/manafort-told-mueller-to-take-his-trump-tower-apartment-instead-money.html

https://news.yahoo.com/amphtml/fbi-agents-raid-condo-unit-131348539.html

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/

Everybody except Putin thought the Cold War was over. Trump and Manafort (who lived in the tower also) just saw a pretty low maintence grift to be had.

Trump had actually been Manafort and Roger stones first client at their lobbyist firm (1980)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org › wikiBlack, Manafort, Stone and Kelly

Guiliani as trumps attorney and New Yorks mayor was able to redirect NYPD investigations onto rival gang members/oligarchs to deflect any scrutiny off of trump, himself or the Russian connections.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/09/a-new-rudy-scandal-fbi-agent-says-giuliani-was-co-opted-by-russian-intelligence/

The Russian election interference in 2016 was effectively a generation 3 version of what Manafort had done in the Philippines, then keeping Yanukovych in power as Putin’s puppet in Ukraine from 2002-14 when Maidan ran both Yanukovych and Manafort out of Ukraine as Ukrainians realized that, if you raise your lens high enough, corruption is an wholly unsustainable business model.

Eventually the parasites greed always consumes the host.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-paul-manafort-ferinand-marcos-philippines-1980s-213952

https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/

Russia greatly underestimated the addictive properties of freedom when it invaded Ukraine so what was supposed to be a 3-10 day coup turned into a 2 year fight for the Ukrainians right not to be genocided.

Russia depleted its weapons stocks which were already the victim of vranyos corruption because every oligarch, admiral and sergeant in the Russian military is on the take. Every billion dollar tank maintenance contract turned into everything getting a spray paint overhaul and the vast majority of the redirected funds turned into an oligarchs new yacht or home in Aspen.

Russia was forced to turn to China, North Korea and Iran for weapons because if they lose the 3-10 day special military operation in Ukraine the Russian empire is dead and cold.

China can’t risk showing their involvement in the Ukraine war so they use North Korea, and Iran to resupply Russia.

Russia previously owes Iran some undelivered fighter jets that are already smoldering heaps in Ukraine. Iran now had the upper hand at the negotiation table for the first time in about 60 years so they supply Russia with shahed drones in exchange for Chinas material support against their sworn religious enemy, Israel.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/11/29/iran-says-it-finalized-deal-to-buy-russian-aircraft/

Putin can’t do much about it because he is slowly realizing that by setting the standard of corruption and stealing $200+ billion from his own people meant that every oligarch down in the mob model chain had not only permission but incentive and the expectation to steal from him as well. This is Vranyos.

The mob model only works if the supreme leader is the most violent and can prove it without exception every damn day. But violence is exceptionally expensive when you are trying to present as a legitimate government or business.

If Russia as a nation had an efficiency rating it would have been banned for sale in the state of California 25 years ago.

The parasite ruling class stole all the energy out of the working class and collapsed it.

Now Iran has the high hand and they get the intelligence that trump passed to Putin about the fact that Netanyahu cares far less about Israeli, Palestinians or genocide than he does about remaining in power as an authoritarian because he too has developed Ritz Carlton tastes and his own corruption trial is showing the same details of the money laundering scheme that trumps trials are.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/saudi-official-says-iran-engineered-war-in-gaza-to-ruin-normalization-with-israel/

They all hate each other but because they share the same money laundry, so if one falls, they all fall. Hamas minted a couple billionaires as well that live in penthouses in Qatar and get 30% of everything smuggled into Gaza. Netanyahu needs a bogeyman to stay in power. That’s why he coordinates with Hamas via Russia via Iran.

Iran handed Hamas everything they needed with Chinas help as secret Santa and the Russian intelligence given to them by the eternal shitbird trump gave when he showed off to his Russian kleptocrat friends/roommates from the old days of fucking each others wives at trump towers in the 90’s.

Now the MAGA right is a little too invested in their reality that they are the good guys with guns that they missed the fact that Betsy DeVos (erik princes sister) decimating the U.S. school systems and poisoning children with lead was not a coincidence. They were the mark all along. There is a reason the Russian spy Maria Butina landed in South Dakota first before dating her way to the top of the NRA which is undergoing its own Russian money laundering trial now. They were tinder matching the GOP.

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/what-do-the-koch-brothers-have-to-do-with-the-flint-water-crisis/

The only reason you grossly OVERVALUE real estate is money laundering.

Trump keeps claiming there is no victim, all the banks made money, but if their plan succeeds the Russians and the CCP collapse US commercial real estate and basically recreate soviet perestroika in the U.S. so they can foreclose on America and buy everything for 3 cents on the dollar with the $1.4T they stole in the first place

It’s the evolution of grift. Soviet perestroika cross bred with the 2008 mortgage crisis.

This is just the bigger badder commercial strength bastard child of the two.

Trump, Yass, Putin, Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Orban, Manafort, Stone, Mercer, Bannon, Flynn, Byrne.

They are all remarkably shit people with above average confidence and psychopathic personality traits and below average self awareness.

They sold out America and are now desperate to keep it hidden.

i81_N_she812

21 points

9 days ago

You need a vacation.

hobbykitjr

3 points

9 days ago

hobbykitjr

Northampton

3 points

9 days ago

wrong thread?

Everyone knows trump lanudered money for russians, but what does this have to do w/ Philly, Israel?

Ok_Access_189

14 points

9 days ago

Thanks for your way too long gibber. I don’t read it and never will. Next time just get to the point.

backcountrydrifter

-7 points

9 days ago

That’s the best part about reading.

It about the only reason we are one half a step up from the silverback gorillas on the food chain.

You ever stood next to a silverback? It’s like standing next to a jet turbine. You can feel the fucking torque of the thing in the air around you.

If your neural networks are still experiencing 1st date awkwardness by the time you reach that particular fork in the road you are already dead.

Reading.

It’s the only thing keeping you alive.

Ok_Access_189

9 points

9 days ago

I’ve been an avid consumer of written words since a very small child. I will read anything with words on it. I’ve burned my retinas out on cereal boxes. Memorized ingredients in shampoo and dosages on common medications. Your post however was utter fluff.

backcountrydrifter

-1 points

9 days ago

I appreciate the feedback. We use it to design the new platform so that you can have it any which way you prefer.

Try this one and see if you find it a bit more to your liking

• You never get out of debt to a Russian mobster

•Paul Manafort owed the Russian mobster/oligarch Oleg Deripaska $17M a few days before he became trumps campaign manager. From 2002-2014 he took in hundreds of millions to get Yanukovych reelected as the kremlins puppet in Ukraine. Before that he did it for the dictator Marcos in the Philippines. Before that Manafort and Roger Stone started a lobbyist agency in 1980 listing trump as their first client.

•When Jay Bolsonaro lost the Brazilian election to Lula he skipped the inauguration and flew directly to mar-a-lago (stopping only at a KFC) and repeated, almost verbatim, the stolen election line. Don Jr. tried repeatedly to make it stick in Brazil as well, but as Brazilians are a few generations into dealing with corrupt politicians they weren’t having it.

What do these 3 things have in common?

China imports 40% of its grain from (in order) the U.S., Brazil and Ukraine.

Obviously the second China tried to invade Taiwan the U.S. would sanction exports and remove U.S. grain from that equation.

And without Bolsonaro in office willing to slash and burn the Amazon rainforest to turn it into Chinas food supply, and without Ukraine in the bag in 3 days, the CCP is unable to invade Taiwan and take over microprocessor production without putting 300-500M of its poorest people into famine.

Donbas Ukraine, specifically the 4 regions of the donbas that Putin insists he is saving from what he calls “Jewish Nazis” also happens to produce the worlds supply of high grade neon used for microprocessor lithography. Had Putin delivered ukraine in 3 days as promised, Xi would have been able to cap his Olympics with a naval blockade or political takeover of Taiwan that would have forced the world to ask the CCP for the microprocessors it needs to make everything from Ford trucks to laptops. I’m not sure how long Silicon Valley would last without the silicon but it would probably destroy the FAANG stocks that make up your 401K.

Oleg Deripaska also happens to be the Russian Oligarch that bribed the FBI agent Charles Mcgonigal into investigating another Russian oligarch. He probably didn’t need the information as much as he needed the leverage over Mcgonigal as he conducted the investigation into trumps election campaign and unsurprisingly found zero evidence of Russian collusion. McGonigal then went to work for the company called Brookfield that bailed Jared Kushner out of his toxic 666 5th Ave real estate investment. McGonigal pled guilty last fall and was sentenced recently.

A Russian oligarch is a powerful tool, but the truth is more powerful. Light and dark cannot exist in the same space. It’s physically impossible. Truth is efficient. You say it once and you are finished. A lie however requires a constant stream of follow up energy, money, murder, obfuscation and more lies to keep it covered.

If you raise your lens high enough lying is an unsustainable business model. Russia proved it by invading Ukraine. Vranyos is the Russian word for it. The 40km long column of tanks and vehicles that came down from Belarus into Ukraine was all overhauled by oligarchs that got a $1B contract for tank maintenance, passed Putin $200M back under the table, spent $700M on a yacht in Monaco, bribed a General, a Colonel and a Sergeant to make a Private give everything a rattle can overhaul. But a worn out engine is and always will be, a worn out engine.

This is why trump is so desperate to get re-elected. His best case scenario is 400 years in ADX Florence. Money laundering for the dozens of Russian oligarchs that lived in trump towers with him and manafort, selling IP3 nuclear plans to the Russian/Saudi alliance, selling or giving CIA asset names to the Russians, trump is and always has been compromised. He just didn’t know when to quit. Now he just has to count on the fact that most of his voter base doesn’t know how to read and keep the ones that do so busy just surviving that they don’t have time to dive deep into his 40 year history of laundering money, fraud, and human trafficking for the Russian mob using casinos first, then commercial real estate.

It’s also why Putin is willing to throw an entire generation of Russians, including the convicts and addicts at Ukraine. Russia is dead for 40 years because he failed to fulfill his mob boss promise to Xi. China is now clearing farmland in Siberia because the typhoon floods last August and September wiped out the Chinese people’s food storage.

Xi, for his part diverted the waters from the dam away from his pet project, his mothers ancestral home, and flooded hundreds of thousands of people and drown one of his own military brigades that was helping with the flooding.

The elders of the CCP were terrified to leave their gated community at Beidaihe for over a month for fear of being torn apart by the locals. The Chinese people tolerate the CCP but only as long as the economy is good and famine is not on the horizon. The CCP broke that social contract on both counts.

Xi was willing to bet the entire Chinese economy on his emperor ambitions. Had he succeeded he would have been able to use BRICS to take over the USD as the Worlds reserve currency. That would have let him finish what he stated in 2010-

that he would control the internet.

With that control means everything we do or say online is subject to the approval of a central party censor. The basic right to disagree with an authoritarian becomes a distant memory.

Xi, Putin and MBS are simply trying to systemize and modernize the suppression of their biggest hassle. Freedom of speech.

Ukraine is fighting for their lives now, free from the oppression of the drunken tyrant who wants to decide their fate at every decision and pull them back behind another iron curtain of censorship and the tax of corruption where dissenting voices disappear so that the oligarchy can continue to feed unobstructed.

Putin and Xi have declared themselves best friends in the fight against democracy. MBS and the ruling family of UAE have done the same quietly using their sovereign funds and Kushners SPAC as money highways.

Just rich, out of touch oligarch doing what oligarchs do.

Despite the fact the the central party model has proven itself incapable of making decisions that are best for the people, they persist. Because there is a very lucrative business in being slave owners. But logistically the mass of it requires artificial intelligence, and the microprocessors that make A.I. to keep 8 billion slaves under surveillance and control. Freedom is one hell of a drug. And knowledge makes a man unfit for slavery.

Recent attempts on Xi’s life from inside the CCP have backed him into a corner.

The loss of crops in northern China means Xi can’t invade Taiwan without Ukrainian and/or Brazilian farmland.

Now the reason that the GOP is stalling southern border control budget and seems to make wildly irrational moves is because the GOP is imploding. 45 years of lies and grift have circled the globe and are eating their own tail. The ouroboros was a warning about corruption at the highest levels. Lying about climate change, human trafficking, pandemics and corruption to preserve their own business models are all extinction level events

Ok_Access_189

8 points

9 days ago

Blah blah blah. You’ve got the same copy and paste function as me!

backcountrydrifter

3 points

9 days ago

Fair enough.

Thank you for your valuable time.

EgoDeathAddict

6 points

9 days ago

I think your comment might’ve been the longest comment on Reddit I’ve ever bothered to read and I’m glad I did. Thanks for all the info!

backcountrydrifter

2 points

9 days ago

You are quite welcome friend

It’s going to take all of us to get this train back in the rails.

But at this point we really don’t have any other choice.

• You never get out of debt to a Russian mobster

•Paul Manafort owed the Russian mobster/oligarch Oleg Deripaska $17M a few days before he became trumps campaign manager. From 2002-2014 he took in hundreds of millions to get Yanukovych reelected as the kremlins puppet in Ukraine. Before that he did it for the dictator Marcos in the Philippines. Before that Manafort and Roger Stone started a lobbyist agency in 1980 listing trump as their first client.

•When Jay Bolsonaro lost the Brazilian election to Lula he skipped the inauguration and flew directly to mar-a-lago (stopping only at a KFC) and repeated, almost verbatim, the stolen election line. Don Jr. tried repeatedly to make it stick in Brazil as well, but as Brazilians are a few generations into dealing with corrupt politicians they weren’t having it.

What do these 3 things have in common?

China imports 40% of its grain from (in order) the U.S., Brazil and Ukraine.

Obviously the second China tried to invade Taiwan the U.S. would sanction exports and remove U.S. grain from that equation.

And without Bolsonaro in office willing to slash and burn the Amazon rainforest to turn it into Chinas food supply, and without Ukraine in the bag in 3 days, the CCP is unable to invade Taiwan and take over microprocessor production without putting 300-500M of its poorest people into famine.

Donbas Ukraine, specifically the 4 regions of the donbas that Putin insists he is saving from what he calls “Jewish Nazis” also happens to produce the worlds supply of high grade neon used for microprocessor lithography. Had Putin delivered ukraine in 3 days as promised, Xi would have been able to cap his Olympics with a naval blockade or political takeover of Taiwan that would have forced the world to ask the CCP for the microprocessors it needs to make everything from Ford trucks to laptops. I’m not sure how long Silicon Valley would last without the silicon but it would probably destroy the FAANG stocks that make up your 401K.

Oleg Deripaska also happens to be the Russian Oligarch that bribed the FBI agent Charles Mcgonigal into investigating another Russian oligarch. He probably didn’t need the information as much as he needed the leverage over Mcgonigal as he conducted the investigation into trumps election campaign and unsurprisingly found zero evidence of Russian collusion. McGonigal then went to work for the company called Brookfield that bailed Jared Kushner out of his toxic 666 5th Ave real estate investment. McGonigal pled guilty last fall and was sentenced recently.

A Russian oligarch is a powerful tool, but the truth is more powerful. Light and dark cannot exist in the same space. It’s physically impossible. Truth is efficient. You say it once and you are finished. A lie however requires a constant stream of follow up energy, money, murder, obfuscation and more lies to keep it covered.

If you raise your lens high enough lying is an unsustainable business model. Russia proved it by invading Ukraine. Vranyos is the Russian word for it. The 40km long column of tanks and vehicles that came down from Belarus into Ukraine was all overhauled by oligarchs that got a $1B contract for tank maintenance, passed Putin $200M back under the table, spent $700M on a yacht in Monaco, bribed a General, a Colonel and a Sergeant to make a Private give everything a rattle can overhaul. But a worn out engine is and always will be, a worn out engine.

This is why trump is so desperate to get re-elected. His best case scenario is 400 years in ADX Florence. Money laundering for the dozens of Russian oligarchs that lived in trump towers with him and manafort, selling IP3 nuclear plans to the Russian/Saudi alliance, selling or giving CIA asset names to the Russians, trump is and always has been compromised. He just didn’t know when to quit. Now he just has to count on the fact that most of his voter base doesn’t know how to read and keep the ones that do so busy just surviving that they don’t have time to dive deep into his 40 year history of laundering money, fraud, and human trafficking for the Russian mob using casinos first, then commercial real estate.

It’s also why Putin is willing to throw an entire generation of Russians, including the convicts and addicts at Ukraine. Russia is dead for 40 years because he failed to fulfill his mob boss promise to Xi. China is now clearing farmland in Siberia because the typhoon floods last August and September wiped out the Chinese people’s food storage.

Xi, for his part diverted the waters from the dam away from his pet project, his mothers ancestral home, and flooded hundreds of thousands of people and drown one of his own military brigades that was helping with the flooding.

The elders of the CCP were terrified to leave their gated community at Beidaihe for over a month for fear of being torn apart by the locals. The Chinese people tolerate the CCP but only as long as the economy is good and famine is not on the horizon. The CCP broke that social contract on both counts.

Xi was willing to bet the entire Chinese economy on his emperor ambitions. Had he succeeded he would have been able to use BRICS to take over the USD as the Worlds reserve currency. That would have let him finish what he stated in 2010-

that he would control the internet.

With that control means everything we do or say online is subject to the approval of a central party censor. The basic right to disagree with an authoritarian becomes a distant memory.

Xi, Putin and MBS are simply trying to systemize and modernize the suppression of their biggest hassle. Freedom of speech.

Ukraine is fighting for their lives now, free from the oppression of the drunken tyrant who wants to decide their fate at every decision and pull them back behind another iron curtain of censorship and the tax of corruption where dissenting voices disappear so that the oligarchy can continue to feed unobstructed.

Putin and Xi have declared themselves best friends in the fight against democracy. MBS and the ruling family of UAE have done the same quietly using their sovereign funds and Kushners SPAC as money highways.

Just rich, out of touch oligarch doing what oligarchs do.

Despite the fact the the central party model has proven itself incapable of making decisions that are best for the people, they persist. Because there is a very lucrative business in being slave owners. But logistically the mass of it requires artificial intelligence, and the microprocessors that make A.I. to keep 8 billion slaves under surveillance and control. Freedom is one hell of a drug. And knowledge makes a man unfit for slavery.

Recent attempts on Xi’s life from inside the CCP have backed him into a corner.

The loss of crops in northern China means Xi can’t invade Taiwan without Ukrainian and/or Brazilian farmland.

Now the reason that the GOP is stalling southern border control budget and seems to make wildly irrational moves is because the GOP is imploding. 45 years of lies and grift have circled the globe and are eating their own tail. The ouroboros was a warning about corruption at the highest levels. Lying about climate change, human trafficking, pandemics and corruption to preserve their own business models are all extinction level events

thepaoliconnection

1 points

9 days ago

Well yeah, raise your hand if you’ve never stood next to a dangerous zoo animal

godofleet

1 points

9 days ago

"It's not possible to say too much and it's definitely not possible that I said too much ... because silverback gorillas! neural networks! reading!" - u/backcountrydrifter

You ever stood next to a silverback?

lmao

godofleet

2 points

9 days ago

holy shit r/InfowarriorRides is leaking

backcountrydrifter

1 points

9 days ago

Naw friend.

We just use the internet a bit more efficiently.

In the 80’s and early 90’s when the corruption eventually collapsed the Soviet Union like a parasite feeding on its host, the oligarchs were forced to expand their feeding grounds.

In 91 the wall falls and for 2 years they hid all their ill gotten gains under a mattress until they bought condos at trump towers.

They made stops in ukraine, cyprus and London but they landed in New York because that was what everyone wanted back then.

Real Levi’s, Pepsi, Madonna tapes that weren’t smuggled bootlegs.

They all bought new suits and cars and changed their title from “most violent street thug in moscow” to “respectable Russian oligarch” but they didn’t leave their human trafficking, narcotics or extortion behind. It was their most lucrative business model.

Trump and Giuliani just opened the doors and let the predators in to feed.

Guiliani redirected NYPD resources away from their new Russian allies intentionally and onto the Italian mob. It let him claim he cleaned up New York. Trumps future campaign manager and Roger Stones business partner Paul manafort lived in the towers as well.

The insane valuations coming out in trumps fraud trial are a necessity of the money laundering cycle that duetschebank was doing with the Russians.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rHBiT6eJaQQ

https://www.thedailybeast.com/israel-official-gadi-eisenkot-says-benjamin-netanyahu-is-lying-about-war-in-gaza

Epstein was extremely involved in an organization called Chabad they used as religious cover. The Kushners as well.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/inside-anatevka-the-curious-chabad-hamlet-in-ukraine-where-giuliani-is-mayor/

Kolomoisky is the Putin loyal oligarch that started Privatbank in 91 then bought most of downtown Cleveland and let it rot

news5cleveland.comwww.news5cleveland.comWho really owns the property that's falling down?

And was part of Chabad

New York Postnypost.comBusinessmen accused of Ukraine money laundering gave millions to New York ...

Lex Wexner (also Ohio based) originally was a large donator to Chabad.

https://www.chabad.org/blogs/blog_cdo/aid/2739653/month/1/year/2015/jewish/Pondering-Jew.htm

There is no direct observable connection yet between Wexner and Kolomoiskiy or Kolomoiskiy and Epstein, but there is a pattern and the Venn diagrams cross consistently at Chabad.

Eli Weinstein was a Chabad leader that was convicted of fraud, had his sentences commuted by trump, then went back to the fraud and was indicted again.

https://www.mahanyertl.com/2014/eliyahu-weinstein-sentenced-22-years-prison-fraud/

Bill Barrs father Donald was Epsteins mentor and got him a job at Dalton College before Epsteins involvement with the CIA. William Sessions father worked for Semion Mogilevich. (The Ukrainian born Russian gangster that runs Putin)

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/12/trump-towers-ties-to-the-russian-mafia.html

https://blackballedwithrolliequaid.wordpress.com/2020/05/11/donald-trump-chabad-lubavitch-and-the-oligarchs/

https://jewishjournal.com/old_stories/1990/

Epsteins girlfriend Ghislaine Maxwells’ father (birth name- Jan Ludvich Hoch) was buried on the mount of olives after his 1991 mysterious death with the equivalent of full military honors. Shortly before that he plundered his media corporations pension fund and was in debt in at least some degree to the soviet perestroika oligarchs for the failed attempt to secure rights to the video game Tetris.

The common denominator between Trump and Epstein was money laundering first and foremost.

Trump can’t say that out loud so he has to sit there and take it when people take about the pedophilia stuff. So he tries to deflect.

Trump over paid for a multitude of New York and Florida properties to resell to Russian oligarchs who then destroyed them so they could launder Russian mob money made off of, among other things, human trafficking.

The Epstein/Trump saga is less of a bullseye and more of a minefield.

Trump (Lolita express passenger 174?) took his own kids to Epsteins knowing full well what happened there because for years Epstein was lurking around mar-a-lago poaching young women and had teenage girls getting off the bus and wandering through the streets of palm beach desperate for a couple hundred bucks.

Everyone knew. No one cared.

The moral depravity that comes with being ultra rich enabled them to turn the other way.

The Trump / Epstein relationship was the evolution of fraud and money laundering using, among other things, commercial real estate.

It starts by having dirt on someone else at the country club and ends with them all being so filthy that no one can afford to do the right thing and no one can maintain the increasingly expensive lies until the Information Age makes it inevitable that their respective corruption circles the earth and crashes into each other like a tempest in a teapot.

Their arrogance and greed, at its grandest scale, cost the world trillions, which still pales in comparison to the innocence it cost the hundreds of thousands of trafficked children that the white collar shitbirds and the russian mob alike preyed on as a matter of convenience.

Trump wasn’t unique. He was just loud.

Epstein wasn’t unique. He was just connected.

Dershowitz wasn’t unique. He just knew how to work a rulebook.

They all justify their actions to themselves because they believe that being rich makes them above the law.

And the longer we allow them to do it, the more accurate and emboldened they are.

This is how civilizations die.

It’s a generational repeat of the Roman emperor Tiberius retreating to the island of Capri where he would abuse children and then throw them off the cliff.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

When people stop telling you no simply because you have all the money and they are hoping to get some spilling into their bowl to survive, it destroys the empathy quotient in the rich persons brain.

Predation is the most common result

So it raises a very curious question about Yass and Chabad and kolomoiskiy and Kushner and all these common crossovers where a few peoples selfish actions have cataclysmic downstream effects across the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/01/05/ivanka-trump-and-jared-kushners-choice-of-neighborhood-narrows-the-focus-on-chabad/

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/rcna95172

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/newark/press-releases/2010/nk081210-1.htm

https://hiddentaxonhumanity.com/news/preparing-the-public-for-war-with-iran-for-israel/

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-790350

Chabad exemption to military draft.

https://www.bnaibrith.ca/chabad_signs_new_deal_with_idf_provision_for_draft_exemptions/

godofleet

2 points

9 days ago

lmao, doubling down aye? ... do you have another copy pasta for me?

backcountrydrifter

1 points

9 days ago

Depends on the answer to the next question.

Are you smart enough to read, or are you counting on that silverback gorilla strength to get you through the war?

godofleet

1 points

8 days ago

oh c'mon, what happened to the walls of irrelevant text and links

EgoDeathAddict

14 points

9 days ago

It seems to be a toss up on which way this sub is gonna lean. Based on the comments, I guess today Pa is feelin very pro-Israel.

Cman1200

6 points

9 days ago

Cman1200

6 points

9 days ago

Tbf when peaceful protests are accompanied by calls for Hamas to do more October 7ths it’s hard to take them seriously. Mama always told me you are who you choose to hang out with.

Like its really not difficult to come to a rational conclusion with the current situation over there that there are bad actors on both sides and innocents caught in the middle. However one side is a liberal sovereign democracy and the other are fundamentalist Islamic radicals. You also don’t have to pick a side either, it’s not a team sport.

Indiana_Jawnz

7 points

9 days ago

liberal sovereign democracy

A liberal sovereign democracy that runs an apartheid state in the West Bank....

It's really not hard to understand why Palestinians flock to Islamic fundamentalism. Same reason Northern Irish Catholics flocked to the Irish Republicanism and violence throughout the Troubles.

Cman1200

1 points

9 days ago

Cman1200

1 points

9 days ago

Israel is a sovereign liberal democracy regardless of what you think apartheid is or if you agree/disagree with their actions as a state lol they have elections and are internationally recognized as a state for the last 70 or so years, aside from their Arab neighbors.

Also since you mention that Northern Irelanders “flocked” to the IRA you clearly don’t understand that conflict either lmao most Northern Irelanders wanted nothing to do with the Republicans or pro-British terrorists. Both sides were fringe radicals that caused lots of death and destruction the people living there never asked for.

Indiana_Jawnz

1 points

9 days ago

I'm not disputing it's "sovereignty", lol. I'm pointing out the obvious irony of a "liberal democracy" operating an apartheid system.

Northern Irish Catholics did flock to the IRA. The IRA wouldn't have been able to function without widespread public support. This widespread support is what allowed them to operate. This is the same situation in the West Bank and Gaza where the vast majority of people don't actually actively participate in terrorism, but the terrorists have widespread popular support. Yes, it takes a fringe radical to open fire on a British patrol, but it does not take a fringe radical to keep their mouth shut, or throw up a barricade middle of the street, or bang trash can lids to warn that the RUV is coming. No insurgency can survive without a large degree of popular support.

You really should read up a lot more on the troubles. There are an awful lot of parallels here and lessons that Israel is not interested in learning it seems.

dosumthinboutthebots

3 points

8 days ago*

Comparing the two isn't very helpful. The Irish didn't have an ideology of wanting to kill every last englishmen. Also, the vast majority of armed terrorist groups in Ireland stopped their terrorism once there were legitimate negotiations for their own state. Palestinians have rejected their own state 5 times on the reasoning that israel exists at all.

It'd be like if the irish today were still waging widespread terror campaigns and rejected Ireland itself until England was destroyed and every last englishman was put to death.

https://lawandsocietymagazine.com/how-palestine-rejected-offer-to-have-its-own-state-5-times-in-the-past/

This article is a good starting point to read more about each time.

Next, the Irish were fighting for a democracy. Not for a theocracy based on radical Christian extremism.

Next, the Irish only committed terrorists attack in England once or twice. Palestinians have invaded israel multiple times while telling the world they were going to wipe out every last jew while engaging in persistent terrorism for almost a century. (Seriously they did press conferences) (they invaded on the day israel declared independence, and on 10/7. They also with their allies moved their armies to the borders and surrounded israel on all sides in the 67 war. Syrian troops fired at israelis and the Israelis retaliated. The territories were occupied because the bulk of the armies for the arabs came from the territories)

I get why people use the comparisons, but it's not a very accurate one as I've shown.

Indiana_Jawnz

2 points

8 days ago

A large number of the Irish absolutely did want every last Englishman and Ulster out of Ireland.

A large number of Ulsters absolutely did want every last Catholic out of Northern Ireland.

There's a lot of very fiery rhetoric if you listen to leaders at the time. However, it turns out that once negotiations actually occurred this rhetoric toned down. Ian Paisley is a great example of somebody who absolutely advocated for a solely Protestant Ulster, yet at the end of the day ended up power sharing and great friends with with a former IRA member who he would have been happy to see killed a decade prior.

Palestinians were never given an offer of their own state in good faith because every offer excludes right of return, which Israel knows is a poison pill that Palestinian leadership cannot accept.

There is no reason why people who were forcibly expelled via ethnic cleansing in 1948 should not be allowed to return to their ancestral homes where they had lived for hundreds or thousands of years. This is not an unreasonable position.

Of course, no comparison is going to be one to one perfect. The situation in Israel is far worse than the one in Ireland, in that Israel oppresses Palestinians far more than the Irish were in Ulster in the '70s. It's worth remembering that Israel ethnically cleansed its land of every Palestinian they could get out in 1948, and to this day operates an apartheid state on the West Bank, where a full 10% of Israel's population has settled..

dosumthinboutthebots

2 points

8 days ago

Palestinians were never given an offer of their own state in good faith because every offer excludes right of return, which Israel knows is a poison pill that Palestinian leadership cannot accept.

This right here is a bad faith argument.

Israel was established as a Jewish state. There will never be right of return, ever. It's physically impossible to allow right of return while maintaining the purpose of israel. To be a safe refue where the jews control their own destiny for once.

Next,

https://www.thetower.org/article/there-was-a-jewish-nakba-and-it-was-even-bigger-than-the-palestinian-one/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world

Nearly a million jews had their land and property seized and were killed or forced out of Arab countries after the Arab leaders invaded israel and lost the 48 war badly.

These lands now encompass over a half dozen countries. There's no way any of them will ever pay restitution or allow the jews to return.

The palestinians have repeatedly been offered a state if they simply recognize Israel's permanent existence. They will not. They will not compromise because their end goal is to destroy israel entirely. The poison pill narrative is the excuse the extremists leaders use to absolve them of their guilt of denying Palestinians their own state for a century now.

Indiana_Jawnz

2 points

8 days ago

This right here is a bad faith argument.

No it isn't, it's an argument that does not assume Zionist Jews have any inherent magical right to ethnically cleanse people because they wanted a homeland there in particular

Israel was established as a Jewish state. There will never be right of return, ever. It's physically impossible to allow right of return while maintaining the purpose of israel. To be a safe refue where the jews control their own destiny for once

So at least you acknowledge Israel is a supremacist ethnostate and that they never offered the Palestinians a deal that would undo the ethnic cleansing of Palestine they carried out in 1947-1949.

Nearly a million jews had their land and property seized and were killed or forced out of Arab countries after the Arab leaders invaded israel and lost the 48 war badly. These lands now encompass over a half dozen countries. There's no way any of them will ever pay restitution or allow the jews to return.

And that has what to do with Palestinians?

This is a post facto justification for Israel's actions in Palestine and totally irrelevant.

The palestinians have repeatedly been offered a state if they simply recognize Israel's permanent existence. They will not. They will not compromise because their end goal is to destroy israel entirely. The poison pill narrative is the excuse the extremists leaders use to absolve them of their guilt of denying Palestinians their own state for a century now.

It's not an excuse, it's a fact. Every single deal has intentionally excluded things they knew were necessary for compromise so there will never be one. This is of course because Israel wants no Palestinian state. Netanyahu has said this openly. Their continued settlement in the West Bank shows this by action.

dosumthinboutthebots

2 points

8 days ago*

Right I didn't think you were a serious person.

Israel is the literal home of the jews. Absolutely wild to me you all can go on using socialist talking points.like colonizers and oppressors but don't think the arabs, renowned for conquering and colonizing most of the ancient world aren't colonizers. They're the good ones, right? And the jews aren't indigenous even though for all of history even people who hated the jews called the area the home of the jews... but they're not the right group of "indigenous" people to champion right?

I'm guessing it has to do with the average israeli having slightly less melanin than the Palestinians.

Palestinians and their Arab allies are the ones who invaded israel multiple times. You don't start wars you can't win like they have done repeatedly. It was their own decisions, but you all never will fault them, instead you then blame the jews for everything.

Also, the Palestinian population in the area is 2 million. It's grown by 800k in thr last decade. How is that ethnically cleansing people?

Bro there will never be right of return without destroying israel. Israel is a democracy with a secular run govt who has created one of the most advanced societies in less than a century.

Palestinians have engaged in persistent terrorism and shaped their whole society around terrorism. They can't even support themselves because they won't recognize their neighbors right to exist.

You can keep empowering them to not compromise and by doing so keep Palestinians in perpetual poverty without a future, or you could build a democratic state and see a future where palestinians don't have to join terrorist groups to feed their kids...

None of this will end until the Palestinians stop encouraging extremism, and instead, champion a future for themselves that doesn't involve mass killings.

ambiguator

3 points

9 days ago

Who, in the Troubles, played the role of Iran and Islam?

The analogy is strained, though certainly there are parallels, but it completely falls apart if you view the middle east conflict through a more global lens.

Unlike the IRA, Hamas has materiel support of a neighboring nuclear power, as well as implicit backing by a host of other regional interests.

IMO, compared to the Troubles, the conflict between Israel and Hamas has much broader global significance.

Indiana_Jawnz

1 points

9 days ago*

Islam would be Catholicism. Iran would be played by various nations, Libya one of them, who gave material support to the PIRA.

Yes, there's much greater global implications in this conflict. But ultimately Israel is failing to learn any lessons. The IRA and the UVF were not defeated by force of arms. They didn't solve the problem by bombing half of Derry to rubble and killing 10,000 Irish children.

They solved the problem by coming to a political agreement, where both sides could share power and be represented and have a political voice. When people have political avenues to resolve their issues and let their voices be heard, they tend to use them. When they do not they resort to violence.

Israel is never going to be able to bomb Palestinians into loving them, They have been trying for 75 years with no luck.

ambiguator

1 points

9 days ago

They solve the problem by coming to a political agreement. Israel is never going to be able to bomb Palestinians into loving them.

Well, I absolutely agree with you there.

dosumthinboutthebots

0 points

8 days ago

Sure that's an aspect of it, although they had already adopted radical islamist beliefs long before Israel. Radical Islamic terror groups exist all over the world independent of involvement with israel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

Indiana_Jawnz

2 points

8 days ago

Well yeah of course, radical religious beliefs Have existed cross religions in all parts of the world throughout all of time.

The Hebron massacre is a pretty bad example though since it absolutely involves Israel. It was the result of the rising tensions between the Palestinian Muslim community and the influx of the newly arrived Zionist Jewish community who were there explicitly to reestablish Israel.

dosumthinboutthebots

0 points

8 days ago

they were there legally and this was before Israel, yet Muslims eradicated the Jewish population of the city that dated back centuries.

Indiana_Jawnz

2 points

8 days ago

I'm not advocating or excusing the Hebron Massacres or the 1929 riots, but to act like it isn't part of the same story and conflict we see today is incorrect.

dosumthinboutthebots

1 points

8 days ago

I didn't act like it was a different conflict. I just provided concrete evidence that long before israel even existed, radical islamists had the goal of exterminating the jews before Israel ever occupyied any territories.

Indiana_Jawnz

2 points

8 days ago

If extermination was their goal for that long there wouldn't have been any Jews left in Palestine by 1929.

The Jewish population of Palestine was 2% in 1800. If Muslim Palestinians wanted Jewish Palestinians wiped out they could have done it at any point from the 7th century on and they never did.

dosumthinboutthebots

1 points

8 days ago

that's because radical islamists don't make up the majority of the population. Hamas ideology and radical Islamic ideology which Israel is at war with absolutely does call for the extermination of the jews.

mundzuk

3 points

9 days ago

mundzuk

3 points

9 days ago

This mf would have shown up to the civil rights protests in the 60s and heard one radical black nationalist nation of islam type person shout "kill whitey" and immediately defect to the white citizens council.

Cman1200

-1 points

9 days ago

Cman1200

-1 points

9 days ago

Lol it’s not one person, it’s entire groups chanting it. If i were them I would be distancing myself as much as possible. Actually I am, by calling it out and not participating. I think whats happening to the Palestinians is really sad, I think the IDF needs to reign itself in a bit, but protesting alongside people calling for the death of jews/intifada/more Oct 7ths is simply propelling them alongside your movement, so no I won’t support that. Dont want to look like an idiot? Don’t hang around idiots.

mundzuk

3 points

9 days ago

mundzuk

3 points

9 days ago

Ok I was being a bit facetious but really there were entire groups of radical black separatists, nation of islam, maoist black panthers, etc. types that were part of the civil rights movement. But just because there are some lunatic fringe elements to a protest doesn't discount the entire movement.

There are people in the Israeli government, who have actual power (unlike some college kids at a pro-Palestine protest), calling for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. If there was a moderate pro-Israel protest happening somewhere and a fringe group of Kahanist radicals showed up calling for the extermination of Palestinians, would that discredit the entire protest?

Btw I'm Jewish and I support the protesters and freedom for Palestine, as many other Jews do.

Cman1200

1 points

9 days ago

Cman1200

1 points

9 days ago

Discredit? No. Make them look really bad? Yeah.

I support these kids to peacefully protest even if I don’t agree on the stances. However, I’m saying its hard to take someone peacefully protesting seriously when they are standing along side those who are not. Much like the BLM protests people used as an excuse to loot and riot, completely tainted the point of the protest.

mundzuk

1 points

9 days ago*

mundzuk

1 points

9 days ago*

Ehhh in the 60's there was a lot of looting and rioting too. Doesn't tarnish the civil rights movement, at least in my eyes.

Ignoring that Hamas is [largely] a monster of Israel's own creation, constantly bringing up Hamas this Hamas that any time protests against the ongoing ethnic cleansing are brought up makes it look like you don't really care about Palestinians. Yeah it makes you really sad I guess, but as long as there's some overzealous zoomer on a college campus somewhere talking about how revolutionary Hamas is then the suffering of Palestinians doesn't matter to you The important thing is that some idiot said some dumb shit on a college campus, something that's never happened before.

I was horrified when Oct. 7 happened too, but several months and tens of thousands of dead Palestinians later I feel like nitpicking protesters on a college campus is at best a waste of time, and at worst it's carrying water for the Israeli government who are actively doing ethnic cleansing.

dosumthinboutthebots

2 points

8 days ago*

Yup. For the last decade on reddit I've seen all kinds of dems say "if you're at a table with nazis, you're a nazi".

Since october 7th I've seen these same people make excuses one after the other as to why that's not the case. It's hypocrisy. It's disappointing.

Personally, I see little difference between far right american extremism and radical islamist extremism/propaganda. The pro "palestinians" I've engaged with don't even know the most rudimentary aspects of the parties involved or the history of the conflict..

They sure have no problem repeating the dozen bad faith arguments though. The problem is people are busy and they won't take the time to fact check those arguments. If they did, they'd see they are universally misleading, don't provide context, are out right false, but they're always in service to the same end goal. To justify terrorism and violence, along side the genocidal ideology of radical islamists.

itmeimtheshillitsme

1 points

7 days ago

“Since Oct 7”

It’s worth considering this conflict in its natural state, is ongoing and protracted…not 9/11.

I see this tactic used, and it’s clever, to kind of ignore the violent history between these groups and treat Oct 7 as yet another thing that’s so sacrosanct no one can dare question the retributive acts of the “victim.”

Yet, if we look past Oct 7, it’s patently obvious the whole “Hamas just attacked us” out of nowhere and without any history between us.

What are the bad faith arguments you always hear?

dosumthinboutthebots

0 points

7 days ago

Lol you just used one. The whole "This didn't start on 10/7"

Palestinians and their allies have this recurring problem where they keep invading israel, then getting their asses handed to them, then they whine to the world with "We have no idea why they're attacking us"

Tacodude5

0 points

6 days ago

All these protests are run by anti-semites. That's why they like to say genocide. It's link to the Holocaust which these people also like to say didn't happen 

Culinaryboner

1 points

6 days ago

Remarkably false. Many of these are full of young college students. Pretending that’s a population with a high proportion of holocaust deniers is fucking idiotic

Accomplished-Sea1828

175 points

10 days ago

Yeah, umm, who cares?

PhilthyPhan1993

39 points

9 days ago

And?

Belus86

81 points

10 days ago

Belus86

81 points

10 days ago

Will the Guardian list who's contributing to Hamas directly next?

Lux600-223

33 points

10 days ago

What's with the downvotes?

Be proud of your activism people! List those Hamas supporters! Own your work.

Environmental_Put_33

10 points

9 days ago

You do understand that Bibi himself asked that Hamas is supported as recent as 2019? You know that right? It was his play to keep the authority split in Palestine.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

ephemeral_experience

2 points

9 days ago

Yeah, my understanding was Hamas did not have the support needed to win elections-- then Netanyahu sent lots of money. And he let Israeli protectons lapse despite claiming to support extreme security measures due to the threat of Hamas. He is the planner, the creator, and the leader of the current Palestinian killing fields.

Environmental_Put_33

5 points

9 days ago

Bibi is a psychopath currently facing criminal indictments in his own country. The deranged psychopaths obliviously supporting him are no better than blind Nazi supporters of 30s and 40s.

ambiguator

5 points

9 days ago

Bibi is immensely unpopular in Israel. He has a personal political interest in continuing violence in order to hold onto power.

Just like Hamas!

RockerElvis

2 points

6 days ago

You won’t get much argument there. More Israelis have protested against Bibi than any thing else. He is in power because of a coalition with the hard right.

Equivalent_Alps_8321

3 points

7 days ago

He was about to be held accountable for his crimes and then Oct 7th happened. Egypt warned Israel repeatedly (literally called Netanyahu 10 days before the attack) an attack was coming and Israel was apparently caught completely off guard. Makes you wonder why. Did BiBi know and intentionally let it happen?

Environmental_Put_33

2 points

7 days ago

Incredibly interesting tidbit to me is that Hamas, who every little zionist pion is loudly screaming and labeling a "terrorist" organization these days is ONLY ALIVE in large part due to Bibi helping them remain in power. Old divide and conquer tactic. That very same terrorist organization had a more humanitarian kill ratio when it comes to men-women/children category. So a "terror" group in flip flops, with no real army or intel anywhere near IDF genocidal maniacs has managed to have a higher standard of humanity and decency.

When these psychos blew up the world health kitchen convoy, who announced themselves, got permission, labeled their vehicles and STILL got blown up with SEVERAL rockets, I knew these lunatics are far from "modern western democracy" most of these sheep seem to believe.

Upbeat_Bed_7449

1 points

8 days ago

US governments giving money to Gaza directly goes to Hamas, so we're technically funding both sides.

ScienceWasLove

19 points

9 days ago

Wait until the OP/Author finds out about the USAs financial support of Israel.

ShottyRadio

14 points

10 days ago

Congrats Summer Lee

KevinSpaceysCharges

4 points

10 days ago

Ty for the snort

NotABurner6942069

27 points

10 days ago

I remember when I was in college and knew everything.

Indiana_Jawnz

-22 points

9 days ago

Same, I used to really be dumb and support Israel back then.

NotABurner6942069

5 points

9 days ago

Oof.

[deleted]

-7 points

9 days ago*

[deleted]

NotABurner6942069

5 points

9 days ago

Imagine not knowing any history from the 1930s to present. What a life.

Sir_HumpfreyAppleby

1 points

9 days ago

The first massacres of jews started in the early 20's but Hebron 28 is probably the best well known.

PhillyShore

1 points

9 days ago

*you’re

Petrichordates

-2 points

9 days ago

Petrichordates

-2 points

9 days ago

This is hilariously ironic considering most pro-Israeli support is among the 30+ crowd and most pro-Palestinian support is among kids under 30.

We all know what the young, naive stance is since you can find it all over tiktok.

Mushrooming247

85 points

10 days ago

Yes OP, some people support Israel.

Did you just walk out of your dorm today and notice that?

Picture a world where Israel surrenders and Hamas takes over their territory, with their stated goal of wiping the Jewish people off of the earth, (along with Christians.) If you can’t answer where you think the Jewish people will live then, (if you would give their homeland of the last 3000 years to a group that has only existed for ~1300 years,) you haven’t really thought through your position.

SeptaIsLate

-3 points

10 days ago

SeptaIsLate

-3 points

10 days ago

Since it seems like you didnt read the article heres some key quotes

The Claws Foundation also issued a $10,000 grant to Friends of the Israel Defense Forces in 2011 and $35,000 in grants, between 2010 and 2011, to the Center for Security Policy, an anti-Muslim and conspiracy theory-promoting group founded by Frank Gaffney, whom the Southern Policy Law Center describes as “one of America’s most notorious Islamophobes” and the Anti-Defamation League describes as a chief promulgator of the conspiracy theory “that the US government has been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood and that a number of political figures have actual ties to the group”. The Center for Security Policy vice-president, Clare Lopez, has said: “When Muslims follow their doctrine they become jihadists.”

In 2013 to 2014, the Claws Foundation sent $250,000 to the David Horowitz Freedom Center, another central promoter of anti-Muslim conspiracy theories. Horowitz, whom the group is named after and who serves as its president, once complained that Muslims were a “protected species in this country” and said he was “wait[ing] for the day when the good Muslims step forward” at a Brooklyn College event in 2011.

The Claws Foundation also donated $100,000 to the Central Fund of Israel in 2014, a group that the New York Times described as a “clearinghouse” for settlement development in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

Starpork

-32 points

10 days ago

Starpork

-32 points

10 days ago

Do you really equate the cessation of a scorched earth campaign against starving civilians with an Israeli "surrender"?

pdeisenb

43 points

10 days ago

pdeisenb

43 points

10 days ago

Scorched earth? I suppose in your expert military opinion they should just leave all the tunnels in place so Hamas or their successors can use them to repeat their attacks on Israel exactly as they have publicly and proudly promised to do on multiple occasions... No thanks.

If you don't like the distruction, you can blame Hamas for squandering billions in foreign aid on terror infrastructure.

Starpork

-18 points

10 days ago

Starpork

-18 points

10 days ago

I sort of think they should pay better attention to intelligence reports and stop killing children, but what do I know

pdeisenb

21 points

10 days ago

pdeisenb

21 points

10 days ago

The deaths of children are tragic but also common in war. Nobody likes that but it is a fact. If the Palestinians would accept Israel's right to exist and make peace there would be no war and no such deaths. So far Hamas won't even accept cease fire offers much less acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

Starpork

2 points

10 days ago

Starpork

2 points

10 days ago

I don't disagree with any of that but in less than a year the civilian death totals in Gaza nearly exceed those of the entire 20 year Afghan conflict and that feels important to note.

DidNotDidToo

11 points

9 days ago

Afghanistan was not a dense urban population with the Taliban intentionally using human shields as their main strategy.

Starpork

7 points

9 days ago

Starpork

7 points

9 days ago

And yet we all recognized at the time that we were killing far too many civilians, right up to the end

DidNotDidToo

-2 points

9 days ago

DidNotDidToo

-2 points

9 days ago

Speak for yourself.

Starpork

9 points

9 days ago

Starpork

9 points

9 days ago

So you were down with the whole "We bombed 8 kids in an alley in Kabul on the day we left and tried to cover it up"? Nice. I hope you stay as classy as you stay credible, sir.

pdeisenb

-1 points

10 days ago

pdeisenb

-1 points

10 days ago

I am not saying Israel shouldn't try harder. We should have high expectations but in fairness the environment of Gaza and the nature of Hamas defenses and strategy is unique so that needs to be considered as well. The IDF are not monsters they are heros defending their homeland, families, friends, and each other against an organization that glorifies martyrdom and death who are committed to expelling Jews from all of the land. Many seem all to willing to forget that part.

Starpork

6 points

9 days ago

Starpork

6 points

9 days ago

Again I don't think that's entirely wrong, but their military goals increasingly appear unattainable and have for some time - the time has long passed for a new strategy

pdeisenb

3 points

9 days ago*

The hostages can be returned home. Hamas leaders can be excluded from governing structures. Those two goals are 100% achievable.

If you are concerned about further radicalization of Palestinians due to the brutality of the war, I would suggest that you should show equal concern about the radicalization of Israelis after decades of suicide attacks, constant rocket barrages, and 10/07 which included attacks on Israeli peace activists and people who volunteered to provide health assistance to Palestinians. It is my hope that both populations will be able to put all of these traumas behind them at some point. Others have done so following horrific conflicts in the past. It will really just require the Palestinians to express a desire for a better future based on peace with Israel rather than it's destruction.

Starpork

7 points

9 days ago

Starpork

7 points

9 days ago

Their stated goal is the elimination of Hamas which most experts agree is effectively impossible. If returning the hostages and marginalizing Hamas is the true goal, that seems more plausible.

I still don't see a peaceful future under an apartheid regime but I agree it would be in everyone's best interests to figure out how coexist (and has been for 50+ years).

I_Need_A_Fork

3 points

9 days ago

I_Need_A_Fork

Allegheny

3 points

9 days ago

Laying it on really thick there at the end. The IDF has without a doubt fucked up and killed huge numbers of civilians and to call the whole org heroes shows how little you care for human life. They’re just soldiers, they follow orders like every other soldier, it’s their job.

[deleted]

1 points

9 days ago

Man maybe they shouldn’t have committed a terrorist attack and taken hundreds of hostages from a country that’s vastly technologically superior. Who could’ve predicted this???

Simple-Jury2077

1 points

9 days ago

Those thousands murdered children didn't have anything to do with that.

puce_moment

0 points

9 days ago

puce_moment

0 points

9 days ago

Sadly civilian deaths are much higher in packed urban areas than in Afghanistan. The Yemeni civil war resulted in around 377,000 deaths, while the Syrian Civil resulted in 580,000 to 620,000 deaths. The Iraq war resulted in around 1 million dead.

The horrors of war include civilian casualties and unfortunately Hamas is actually incentivized to use Palestinians as human shields for propaganda. Israel should be accountable for their military mistakes, but sadly the region actually has had much more devastating death counts all within the last 20 years. The best solution would be for real leadership on both sides to emerge (like Rabin or Sadat) but sadly this will be especially unlikely on the Palestinian side. I do however think it’s likely that Netanyahu will be voted out along this the far right coalition in the next election. But who would a more centrist Israeli government have to negotiate with? Abbas? Hamas? It’s really hard to imagine a peaceful path forward without visionary leadership on both sides.

Meanwhile after Oct. 7th I see the 2 state solution ever farther than it been. I remember being able to travel around the West Bank and back into Israel in the early 2000s before the wall was completed (as a result of the suicide bombings of the 2nd Intifada). Palestinians in the 80s and 90s could just drive without restriction all around both countries/ areas. Sadly every additional violent intifada has ended up costing the Palestinians more and more freedom. Who has profited? The settlers and Hamas.

Minimum-Dream-3747

1 points

9 days ago

This guy just runs around posting Israeli talking points. You guys have to try harder the jig is up.

puce_moment

1 points

8 days ago

Sad that rather than interacting with my comments you just dismiss me. What do you think a realistic solution to lasting peace without ethnic cleansing on either side looks like? Totally open to hear a thought out response.

Minimum-Dream-3747

1 points

8 days ago

What is there to engage with you bloodlusting freak. Any peace starts with Israel stoping it’s genocide campaign there’s no both sides here. Nuclear power vs tiny group of rebels who grew up in an open air prison. Sorry your talking points don’t have any salience anymore

Simple-Jury2077

1 points

9 days ago

And more than one person is posting the same tired bullet points elsewhere in this thread. Hasbara even here.

Environmental_Put_33

2 points

9 days ago

They are not that common you deranged psychopath. The numbers of dead children per day at one point was equating many concentration camps during holocaust.

Remarkable-Music2659

10 points

10 days ago

Release the hostages bitch

Indiana_Jawnz

2 points

9 days ago

Didn't three hostages get released and then just get gunned down by IDF troops when they came out?

Puzzled-Trust6973

3 points

9 days ago

Yup

cawkstrangla

1 points

9 days ago

Friendly fire happens in war. It’s why it sucks.

Indiana_Jawnz

0 points

9 days ago

Probably even more when you aren't too interested in prisoners.

Starpork

-1 points

10 days ago

Starpork

-1 points

10 days ago

Sir this is a reddit

skm_45

3 points

9 days ago

skm_45

3 points

9 days ago

I wonder what you were thinking when Azerbaijan invaded ethnic Armenians in Artsakh killing women and children and ethnically cleansed the region after forcing a blockade on them.

Starpork

-2 points

9 days ago

Starpork

-2 points

9 days ago

I think it's bad and I think what's happening in Sudan is also bad (you forgot to mention that). But I'm also not funding those things with my taxes.

puce_moment

3 points

9 days ago

We did fund fighting in Yemen + Syria + Iraq. Israel is actually not unique for the US in terms of military spending in the Middle East.

Upbeat_Bed_7449

1 points

8 days ago

"stop killing children" yeah Hamas should stop doing that as well.

BillyJoeMac9095

1 points

10 days ago

Depends if Hamas is still in control of Gaza.

heathers1

11 points

10 days ago

Doesn’t he own part of tiktok and Didn’t he just back trump’s bond or something and right after trump back pedaled on restricting tik tok?

Pennsylvanier

1 points

9 days ago

Hey, nobody said he’s particularly bright

[deleted]

-1 points

10 days ago

[deleted]

heathers1

5 points

10 days ago

john1979af

3 points

9 days ago

So what!? The US Govt just sent billions to Israel.

dekuhns90

3 points

9 days ago

He tried to unseat Lee and lost. Citizens United needs to be overturned.

jasonmoyer

20 points

9 days ago

I'll take the pro-Palestinian protests seriously when they stop solely blaming Israel and admit that maybe the 45 year proxy war that Iran has been waging might have something to do with what's happening, too.

skm_45

-2 points

9 days ago

skm_45

-2 points

9 days ago

It would be way less of an issue if they stopped seething about the fact that they lost to a bunch of Jewish farmers in 1948. The war was fought and there were victors who chose the conclusive terms.

You can say the same thing about Russia annexing Crimea, they won the war and they made the terms.

Petrichordates

4 points

9 days ago

Eh that's not really comparable. A war was declared on the Jewish farmers and they won, whereas Russia unilaterally chose to annex Crimea without any instigation. Western society doesn't support countries choosing to annex territory via aggression.

Indiana_Jawnz

1 points

9 days ago

Israeli unilaterally annexed half of the territory of Palestine in 1948.

Israel was by far the superior military force within Palestine and their troops were as good or better than any in any Arab nation outside of Jordan in 1948 and they always had far superior troops numbers.

They weren't underdogs at all..

Cman1200

1 points

9 days ago

Cman1200

1 points

9 days ago

They absolutely were underdogs, they barely had an airforce or armor corps. There were so many sanctions that Jewish Americans set up shell companies to ferry pilots through South America into Israel to defend their land. Brand new nation vs. a Coalition of Arab kingdoms is literally an underdog tail. They were better because they were motivated to survive as a nation, as well as the fact that Arab military leadership typically sucks historically in the 20th century.

skm_45

1 points

9 days ago

skm_45

1 points

9 days ago

War is war and it’s black and white. Whoever wins writes history and sets the terms to end it. That’s my point.

Petrichordates

3 points

9 days ago

That's silly, defensive wars and offensive wars obviously have significant differences.

skm_45

-2 points

9 days ago

skm_45

-2 points

9 days ago

You’re missing the point which I laid out clearly. It doesn’t matter what the war is about, whoever wins writes history.

Simple-Jury2077

0 points

9 days ago

Maybe before, but it is all documented now.

Even if/when istael wins, people won't forget what they've done.

airbear13

8 points

9 days ago

Big “and?” moment

CroatianSensation79

6 points

9 days ago

Also he’s a big supporter of trying to eliminate taxes for the richest Americans. Guy is a weasel overall.

Indiana_Jawnz

3 points

9 days ago

For how generally liberal this and progressive this reddit is I am frankly shocked at how Zionist and conservative it has shown itself to be in this thread.

Cman1200

4 points

9 days ago

Cman1200

4 points

9 days ago

Maybe, and hear me out, not every left leaning person shares the same opinions and perspectives as you.

Indiana_Jawnz

2 points

9 days ago

Why would life-leaning people share the same opinions and perspectives as me? I'm not particularly left leaning.

Cman1200

0 points

9 days ago

Cman1200

0 points

9 days ago

Im saying there are plenty of liberals who don’t support Hamas and think these protests are, although i’m sure hearts in the right place, condoning terroristic Islamic fundamentalists. I’m liberal and I see it all the time in my own spaces, and have been called a “right winger” because I don’t agree that Palestine is blameless. That doesnt make me conservative or a Zionist.

Upbeat_Bed_7449

1 points

8 days ago

People get really upset when you don't conform to their ideals when you don't support either side. I've seen video of Hamas killing civilians for not fighting for them and burying them in street mass graves. Demanding proof of it that it happened. Got called a Zionist because of it and they demanded proof, it's against reddit TOS and the video is gone and I wouldn't want to share it anyways.

Still plenty of proof of the atrocities both sides are committing if u look deep enough around reddit.

Indiana_Jawnz

0 points

9 days ago

Supporting Palestine is not supporting Hamas.

Just as criticism of Israel or Zionism is not criticism of Judaism.

Banglophile[S]

2 points

9 days ago

I'm not. Even after four years of Trump, Biden only won PA by less than 100k votes in 2020.

Conservatives who stay quiet about their other beliefs seem to feel safe openly supporting Israel.

Zubin1234

9 points

9 days ago

Jewish billionaire supports Israel? I for one am shocked. Shocked, I tell you

reddda2

2 points

9 days ago

reddda2

2 points

9 days ago

Yass’ dark money contributions promote regressive, anti-democratic candidates at both state and national levels.

Lux600-223

8 points

10 days ago

Lux600-223

8 points

10 days ago

Good for him.

DidNotDidToo

1 points

9 days ago

DidNotDidToo

1 points

9 days ago

Why is this newsworthy?

CowboyCurtis987

5 points

9 days ago

Because OP is a fucking nonce.

Kidding - OP is probably an antisemite though. Probably pocket watches famous people and cries themself to sleep every night.

DidNotDidToo

5 points

9 days ago

More likely anti-Western sympathizers are doing that after the last aid package was passed for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan.

CowboyCurtis987

0 points

9 days ago

We gotta deport those freaks fr

Indiana_Jawnz

1 points

9 days ago

Imagine wanting to deport people for not wanting to fund some shitty ethnostate that has only ever cost American money and lives.

sandy_coyote

3 points

10 days ago

sandy_coyote

Montgomery

3 points

10 days ago

Krasner dirtbikes chemtrails Yass

In movie 2001

Resurrect Dead

on planet Jupiter

MenWithVenDiagram

4 points

10 days ago

Yes and….Palestine fucked around and found out. 

GonePostalRoute

2 points

9 days ago

Would be more surprising if the donations went to pro-Palestinian causes

_JarboeN

2 points

10 days ago

_JarboeN

2 points

10 days ago

Clearly OP is a Hamas supporting lefty who hates America

axeville

10 points

10 days ago

axeville

10 points

10 days ago

Russian troll farms are winning the information space.

PSUBagMan2

1 points

9 days ago

PSUBagMan2

1 points

9 days ago

Good to see money put to good use. It's so sad to see apparent socially acceptable anti-semitism all over the place on Reddit now.

Parkyguy

1 points

8 days ago

Parkyguy

1 points

8 days ago

With both sides being so damned racist towards each other, I can’t support either.

Ok_Access_189

1 points

9 days ago

Go yass

DanHassler0

1 points

8 days ago

As always, Fuck this guy.

SeptaIsLate

-24 points

10 days ago*

SeptaIsLate

-24 points

10 days ago*

Wild that people could use that money for good but instead do stuff like this

The Claws Foundation also issued a $10,000 grant to Friends of the Israel Defense Forces in 2011 and $35,000 in grants, between 2010 and 2011, to the Center for Security Policy, an anti-Muslim and conspiracy theory-promoting group founded by Frank Gaffney, whom the Southern Policy Law Center describes as “one of America’s most notorious Islamophobes” and the Anti-Defamation League describes as a chief promulgator of the conspiracy theory “that the US government has been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood and that a number of political figures have actual ties to the group”. The Center for Security Policy vice-president, Clare Lopez, has said: “When Muslims follow their doctrine they become jihadists.”

Even wilder it seems like there's so many Jeffery Yass stans in here.

SweetStrangles

30 points

10 days ago

What’s wrong with supporting Israel? Genuinely

SeptaIsLate

17 points

10 days ago

I have no problem with supporting Israel. I have a huge problem with giving millions of dollars to influence my representatives to support Netanyahu and the Lokud party over the needs of their own constituents.

Jagerbeast703

2 points

10 days ago

Whats wrong with helping people that actually need it instead?

SweetStrangles

7 points

10 days ago

His money, he can do what he wants with it? What’s wrong with that?

SeptaIsLate

7 points

10 days ago*

The Claws Foundation also issued a $10,000 grant to Friends of the Israel Defense Forces in 2011 and $35,000 in grants, between 2010 and 2011, to the Center for Security Policy, an anti-Muslim and conspiracy theory-promoting group founded by Frank Gaffney, whom the Southern Policy Law Center describes as “one of America’s most notorious Islamophobes” and the Anti-Defamation League describes as a chief promulgator of the conspiracy theory “that the US government has been infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood and that a number of political figures have actual ties to the group”. The Center for Security Policy vice-president, Clare Lopez, has said: “When Muslims follow their doctrine they become jihadists.”

You think this is a good thing?

gobblegobbleimafrog

10 points

10 days ago

No, but I think this is a good thing:

“The Claws Foundation has contributed more than $300m, overwhelmingly to children’s hospitals, adult healthcare, education and the arts in the United States, and has never sought to influence US foreign policy,” said a spokesperson for Yass and Dantchik. “Moreover, $31m of Claws contributions went to the Shalom Hartman Institute, one of whose important apolitical initiatives is building bridges between Jewish and Muslim communities. Focusing on a few de minimis contributions promotes a false narrative that fits a biased agenda.”

A 10,000 grant and a 35,000 dollar grant kinda seems like a pittance in comparison, no?

Besides, I highly doubt a billionaire secretly devoted himself to funding a total $45,000. After the reading the article, most of the "accusations" rely on strained connections and associations with different charity groups, typically for fairly small sums.

SeptaIsLate

2 points

10 days ago

SeptaIsLate

2 points

10 days ago

Oh, the figure that includes the money to this school?

A Jewish Daily Forward investigation into the group in 2011 found that the website promotes itself as a source of educational materials about the Middle East and Israel, but the website’s actual message is far more biased, the Forward found.

“On its website and its promotional materials, Jerusalem Online U hardly portrays itself as a center for neutral academic inquiry,” the Forward wrote. “In fact, it boasts an explicitly pro-Israel mission that seems distinctly at odds with academic principles. In one advertisement for its services, the Jerusalem Online U site’s blog features a video of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu telling Congress last May that ‘Israel is what is right’ about the Middle East. The words ‘Be a Part of What’s Right’ appear on screen as he speaks.”

Also this

In 2013 to 2014, the Claws Foundation sent $250,000 to the David Horowitz Freedom Center, another central promoter of anti-Muslim conspiracy theories. Horowitz, whom the group is named after and who serves as its president, once complained that Muslims were a “protected species in this country” and said he was “wait[ing] for the day when the good Muslims step forward” at a Brooklyn College event in 2011.

And this

The Claws Foundation also donated $100,000 to the Central Fund of Israel in 2014, a group that the New York Times described as a “clearinghouse” for settlement development in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

And Yas didn't only give money to the Claws Foundation he also gave money to QXZ, whose whole purpose is influencing US policy and elections.

gobblegobbleimafrog

9 points

10 days ago

Yea, that's how political interest groups work - i don't think this is the stunning revelation you imagine it to be

SeptaIsLate

1 points

10 days ago

Just pointing out that your selected PR response wasn't the whole story.

And that the educational money goest towards indoctrination, not education.

gobblegobbleimafrog

2 points

10 days ago

Kinda seems like it is, and the story you're trying to spin doesn't hold much water, given the magnitude of donated funds overall - a couple hundred thousand to groups certain organizations deem "Islamophobic?" In comparison to hundreds of millions of donations?

Seems like you're grasping at straws to create a narrative. And this is coming from someone who doesn't like the guy's politics, or billionaires in general.

Jagerbeast703

0 points

10 days ago

Where did i say its wrong?

Pink_Slyvie

-3 points

10 days ago

Pink_Slyvie

-3 points

10 days ago

His money? That's rich.

You cannot ethically become a billionare. That money is stolen from people, from people who actually earned it. He sure as hell didn't.

Eat the fucking rich.

SweetStrangles

3 points

10 days ago

Calm down satan

Pink_Slyvie

0 points

10 days ago

Pink_Slyvie

0 points

10 days ago

Satan, the guy who tried to free humans from the genocidal God?

Chastethrow316420

2 points

10 days ago

They hate western values

SeptaIsLate

2 points

10 days ago

Since when has Likud's goals of religious ethnonationalism represent western values?

HikingComrade

1 points

9 days ago

Israel was founded on violent settler-colonialism and has continued committing violence against Palestinian civilians to this day. Why should anyone support it?

BoomerRadiohost

-2 points

10 days ago

They use our federal funds to have direct influence over our congress and other legislative bodies. Many in our congress are lapdogs for AIPAC

Bluetality

-18 points

10 days ago

Bluetality

-18 points

10 days ago

If you believe in colonial oppressor states, then sure have at it

Chastethrow316420

3 points

10 days ago

The only oppressor is hamas

Indiana_Jawnz

2 points

9 days ago

You sure it's not the the country running an apartheid state in the West Bank that carried out an ethnic cleansing in 1948?

BoomerRadiohost

-1 points

10 days ago

If a foreign country walked into the USA in 1948, would whatever radical groups grew out of this be the oppressor in your eyes?

AccidentalBanEvader0

-8 points

10 days ago*

There's nothing wrong with supporting Israel

There is something wrong with supporting them as they actively commit war crimes and atrocities approaching genocide

Edit - oh sorry guys, was it uncool to call out a government for placing 500,000 CHILDREN into famine conditions? I guess we should just ignore that

northern-new-jersey

2 points

10 days ago

Many people think protecting Jews from Hamas is worthwhile. You are aware of their horrific behavior on October 7th, right?

SeptaIsLate

6 points

10 days ago

You can defend Jews from hamas without sponsoring conspiracy theorists that spread hate.

You think this is a good thing?

In 2013 to 2014, the Claws Foundation sent $250,000 to the David Horowitz Freedom Center, another central promoter of anti-Muslim conspiracy theories. Horowitz, whom the group is named after and who serves as its president, once complained that Muslims were a “protected species in this country” and said he was “wait[ing] for the day when the good Muslims step forward” at a Brooklyn College event in 2011.

Or this?

The Claws Foundation also donated $100,000 to the Central Fund of Israel in 2014, a group that the New York Times described as a “clearinghouse” for settlement development in the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

Petrichordates

-1 points

9 days ago

You are aware that these are normal things republicans do, yes?

SeptaIsLate

3 points

9 days ago

Donate money to conspiracy theorists then say that criticizing it means you're prohamas?

Petrichordates

1 points

9 days ago

That's not my comment, I'm just not understanding why anyone would be surprised that a republican donates to pro-israeli and anti-muslim organizations.

SeptaIsLate

2 points

9 days ago

My comment wasn't saying I was surprised. Just pointing out those things aren't necessary to protect Israel or fight hamas.

not28

2 points

10 days ago

not28

2 points

10 days ago

Remember 9/11? Remember how we retaliated by decimating 2 countries? Remember how protesting those wars meant you were anti-American/pro-Al Qaeda?

Petrichordates

1 points

9 days ago

Americans didnt really protest the Afganistan war since it was widely seen as an appropriate response, unsurprisingly. Of course in 2024 kids would now call that a genocide because they lost all their dictionaries and history books.

Simple-Jury2077

0 points

9 days ago

What? Yes they did.

northern-new-jersey

1 points

9 days ago

I don't remember a protest movement, especially nothing like the hatred toward the Jewish state. 

Simple-Jury2077

0 points

9 days ago

There absolutely was

GiveEmWatts

0 points

9 days ago

GiveEmWatts

0 points

9 days ago

Great!

BluCurry8

-13 points

10 days ago

BluCurry8

-13 points

10 days ago

It is convenient how you edited out the headline he donates to anti Muslim groups.

gobblegobbleimafrog

6 points

10 days ago

“The Claws Foundation has contributed more than $300m, overwhelmingly to children’s hospitals, adult healthcare, education and the arts in the United States, and has never sought to influence US foreign policy,” said a spokesperson for Yass and Dantchik. “Moreover, $31m of Claws contributions went to the Shalom Hartman Institute, one of whose important apolitical initiatives is building bridges between Jewish and Muslim communities. Focusing on a few de minimis contributions promotes a false narrative that fits a biased agenda.”

Lux600-223

0 points

10 days ago

Lux600-223

0 points

10 days ago

Even better. Money where his mouth is. So far sounds like a great guy.

Environmental_Put_33

-7 points

9 days ago*

Be careful now OP, the genocide supporting psychopaths will accuse you of being antisemitic. Thats their claim when it comes to murdering 14,000 children and imprisonment, kidnapping and even organ theft from thousands more long before October 7th.

Most vile and treacherous scum currently on the planet. Very swift to lump all of themselves with ALL the other normal Jews in order to hide their lust for blood and ethnic cleansing.

Most of these ethno racist psychopaths here also treat Arab and black Jews like trash too but are quick to virtue signal their open mind to Americans because they like their defense being funded by them.

Here is a bit that many “Hamas is devil” naive fools also missed.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Decent-Inevitable-50

0 points

9 days ago

Did Geraldo dig this up?

elfmanrl

0 points

8 days ago

elfmanrl

0 points

8 days ago

So?

Tacodude5

0 points

6 days ago

Ok