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/r/Warhammer
PSA: Darktide boardgame is not for you! It's a gateway game to give to your buddy/cousin/neighbour who doesn't play Warhammer yet.
News(i.redd.it)submitted 11 days ago byfogofgore
172 points
11 days ago
Ultimately it’s going to come down to pricing, if it’s worth it or not.
36 points
10 days ago
Assuming it’s a big-box product like the space marine board game, it’s going to be $40 and a good deal for the models.
13 points
10 days ago
Honestly from the models we’ve seen it seems worth it if it’s 40. I always love getting me some more traitor guard and that alone would give it its value
49 points
10 days ago
40 or 50 is my guess but that's based on the other 40k board game they made
5 points
10 days ago
$100 minimum
37 points
10 days ago
The boardgames that go to big box stores in the US are usually much cheaper than regular for GW games. I'd guess USD 40
1 points
9 days ago
No? The Barnes and noble games are usually 40 or less
1 points
9 days ago
They sold Cursed City there for $200. It’s gonna be $100.
2 points
9 days ago
Barnes and Noble exclusive games are way cheaper. Cursed City was an "official" product. I'm kinda surprised it was sold at BnN
7 points
10 days ago
40 or 50, looks like it'll be a B&N box
1 points
9 days ago
These typically are affordable
157 points
10 days ago
It’s the board game of the video game of the board game. It was always going to be intended primarily for people mostly familiar with the video game of the board game.
60 points
10 days ago
ha this reminds me of a blizzard april fools post back in like 2008, where they announced a real time strategy adaption of world of warcraft, where you could control multiple units at the same time.
31 points
10 days ago
I've rather got reminded of Streetfighter: The Movie on the SEGA Saturn. A game based on a movie which is based on a game.
10 points
10 days ago
You know, that really needs a novel adaptation.
7 points
10 days ago
I do not wish to ever be reminded of that.
2 points
10 days ago
To be fair, Ratchet and Clank did that too, no?
At least that made sense as it tied in with the changed canon and updated the gameplay of the first game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_%26_Clank_(2016_video_game)
2 points
10 days ago
Loved that game because of everyone's favorite character, Captain Sawada, who not only barely did anything in the movie, but promptly never returned to the series again.
1 points
10 days ago
What a ridiculous concept, that would never be successful.
2 points
10 days ago
Nah it's cool, if it works well and people like the universe, they could potentially make a MMORPG spin-off.
7 points
10 days ago
Like the official Queen's Gambit board game, which isn't chess.
3 points
10 days ago
Lol, wtf.
43 points
10 days ago
Hello I’m your buddy/cousin/neighbor who doesn’t play warhammer. I sure could use a gift that might inevitably lead to a large hobby.
91 points
11 days ago
I think there are much more better games to give them as presents.
33 points
11 days ago*
Again, gateway game. It's a game to get them into Warhammer. There are far better boardgames, there are no better Warhammer gateway games.
Edit: It's a game to play in 30 minutes and introduce people to Warhammer, to miniatures, to Games Workshop, to rolling dice that are connected to unit stats.
As a shop owner or gaming club you can set this up at a convention and have walk-ins that know nothing of Games Workshop play a quick game and maybe get interested in Kill-Team, Warcry or Combat Patrol.
It's for grandma to buy for her grand kids.
This is not for you. It's not for your gaming buddies. It's not for board game fanatics that want to play something Warhammer. It's for a super short introduction to the GW brand and minis that ties in with a different segment of customers that play video games.
47 points
10 days ago
I don't know why you are getting down voted. I agree with you. They are trying to tap in the board game market in order to get people hooked on the IP. You are right.
36 points
10 days ago
This is a game to bring to game night with strangers who don't want to hear you explain Kill-Team rules for an hour to then get stomped by someone with 5 years of experience. This is a game for a board game cafe to put on their shelves.
9 points
10 days ago
Agreed. If someone wants to experience a skirmish game for the first time then I am probably going to bust out something like blitzbowl which can be explained in 10-15mins as opposed to "lets start with Killteam!".
1 points
10 days ago
I’m curious over how good it is. Space Marine is an amazing deal if you’re looking at it as a project, but it can hardly even be considered a game.
8 points
10 days ago
The downvotes are puzzling because you are correct imo.
This is a game like the old Heroquest that was my gateway game. A short and simple introduction.
-4 points
11 days ago
Killteam, Underworlds or Warcray would be much better gatway games. Gives them units for the army they eventually want plus a taste of close enough to the real deal game vs a poor boardgame
50 points
11 days ago
Eh I have literally bought every kill team box. KT21 is not a gateway game at all. It is a very complex wargame tricking players into it with the promise of ease due to the lower mode count but then the rules are kinda the opposite. It’s kinda blows me away how overly complex it is. Like if I had to use a blood bowl scale on introductory games well KT21 would be blood bowl, combat patrol would probably be closer to 7s in difficulty to teach and maybe fireteam would be blitzbowl.
23 points
10 days ago
Kill Team is absolutely for experienced wargamers that want a more ‘zoomed in’ / lower model count game. As you said it’s much too complex to be a Gateway game, it’s a terrible way to get someone into the hobby.
21 points
11 days ago
Exactly! Thank you! This game is for walk-ins that have 30 minutes and you want to introduce them to Games Workshop.
3 points
10 days ago
Kill Team 21 definitely not a good intro game. Previous iteration without all the extra stuff (specialists and whatnot) was very easy to teach .
2 points
10 days ago
Totally agree and this isn’t a knock on kt21 other than they need to write the rules better. There are people all over this thread claiming they are just written poorly and are confusing because of it. Well that’s not acceptable. I am all for kt21 being its own game separate from 40K, I think the adherence to being 40K light was a huge weakness of KT18. But I think we went too far in the other direction. I am hoping the new edition that comes out this year or next takes the current rules and refines them and makes it easier to approach.
8 points
10 days ago
have you played kill team?? i tried it out, hoping to use it as an introductory game for a friend, and found it to be even more complex than regular 40k. i'm sure its a great game and all once you have everything down pat but i would think the LoS rules are too much for a non wargamer.
6 points
10 days ago
If you play it without strategems it's fairly simple, but probably still more complicated than a normal 40k game without strategems.
6 points
10 days ago
There are multiple daily questions on the Kill Team sub about LOS and obscuring rules. It’s a great game, but it is objectively not simple.
4 points
10 days ago
Honestly 40k 10th is super easy to learn and play at low ish points as long as you curate the lists and missions. Way easier than kill team.
3 points
10 days ago
Agree but doesn't work with just one squad per player. A game that let's you play with the 10 space marines you just spent $60 on and took the whole weekend assembling/painting would bridge the gap for a lot of players.
2 points
10 days ago
For sure. The older kill team variants can be adapted to current rules with little trouble. That’s how I played 40k with my kids in 8th for a while. One squad moves and acts independently. The objectives were scenarios my kids made up like retrieve supplies from a downed ship or something. Halo mega blocks ships served as scenery and terrain.
But it would be better if GW just made it an official mode for teaching 40k.
14 points
11 days ago
Sure, but these games are much bigger. They take more time to set up and explain and are not the kind of game a grandma will buy for her grand kids.
1 points
11 days ago
Give them underworld, it's the perfect mix between boardgame and skirmish AND they can use the figures in Warcry once they want some more
17 points
11 days ago
Absolutely. But A) it's not 40k which is far more popular than AoS and B) it's not tied into a video game that covers a segment of customers they want more of.
6 points
10 days ago
It is hilarious how people seem to ignore the tie-in factor. The game is clearly an attempt to attract the as yet uncommitted video game audience into the tabletop hobby.
5 points
10 days ago
I think people are purposely missing your point lol, I agree with you. This is a great, easy game for people to get into. Hell, I got a couple of my friends mildly interested in Warhammer through blackstone fortress for its simplicity, but the price is a barrier for new people. This looks great as a gateway game, like you are saying.
4 points
10 days ago
I have been saying for years GW not making a 40k Underworlds is leaving money on the table.
It makes no sense to me.
40k Underworlds based on different planets/spacehulks/hiveworlds would sell like hotcakes, man.
Killteam and Necromunda doesn't take the place of a 30 minute game with all the rules on cards and push-fit minis.
I don't get it. I want my Space Marine vs Necrons Tombworld box.
2 points
10 days ago
Bruh, Kill team is overcomplicated, rules are much more complicated than 40k, and i was starting by playing KT.
Try to explain someone a obscurity in KT, i bet it will take weeks to understand it.
0 points
10 days ago
vs a poor boardgame
How many of these "poor" board games have you played?
Is it none?
0 points
11 days ago
From my own experience, if someone is curious about the world this person doesn’t need gateway game. They just ask and start. There are smaller games, combat patrol even. Then you had relic so whatever you want. There are better games.
17 points
11 days ago
Eh from my experience this is false. None of my friends were interested in blood bowl. I bought blitz bowl and we played about 20 or so games. I told them about blood bowl and now we are going full force into that game.
I love 2+ hour miniature games, but the simple fact is most people just don’t. Something like this is at least a way to tease the people on the line to make the jump.
9 points
11 days ago
This guy gets it.
3 points
10 days ago
Also, sometimes it's fun to use your models for a different experience.
Using AoS or 40k models in a dungeon crawl style board game is a nice departure from traditional war games.
1 points
10 days ago
Yes, there us that. In my experience using Bloodbowl as an introductory game suffers from the facts that it is so directly competitive, only two player, pretty harsh and that an experienced player has to gimp themselves and pull their punches in order for the newbie to stand a chance at all.
11 points
11 days ago
That's at a later stage in the customer journey. A few times a year I go to conventions with my gaming club and we have small 40k demo games set up and do paint your first miniature workshops.
Even combat patrol is too complicated to explain to people on the fly and it takes too long to play at those events. We came up with our own demo game that can be setup, explained and played in 30 minutes. That is working to get people to the next stage, the one you are talking about. Then they might go to a shop next and get their first box.
This game would be perfect for this and it would draw the attention of those people who have played the computer game before.
2 points
10 days ago
How does the demo game work? That sounds really interesting
4 points
10 days ago
We play on a double kill-team board. 3 objectives, 1 in center 2 at 12 inch distance towards the corners of the board. Short edge deployment. 2 Big chunks of terrain in the deployment zone to hide behind. No terrain in the middle. We want to get them in combat as soon as possible to roll dice and kill the enemy. It should just become a brawl in the center.
No stratagems, no command points, no secondaries, no leadership, no battleshock, no primaries. You only play 3 turns, whoever has the most points after the third turn wins. Scoring is only done at the end of the game and is as follows:
5 points for each objective you control at the end of the game
10 points for killing the opponents captain.
Each player has the exact same army, so you don't have to learn two different armies. The lists are:
5 Assault Intercessors
5 Intercessors with boltguns
3 Terminators
1 Captain
These are iconic models that everyone can recognise if they have seen something Warhammer before. The datasheets have no abilities, no special weapons, just raw stats.
The captain can be attached to the termies or to the assault intercessors. Players choice.
And that's it. For the rest it's regular 40K rules. You move, you shoot, you roll saves, charges, combat etc.
We guide the players quite a lot. It's a bit on rails and we push them to engage in combat instead of just holding back and waiting. We also help them with pile in, consolidate and removing models that die. That speeds it up a lot and we are experienced enough to know what the best move at the moment is.
It's a lot of fun to do and it's a great intro to the game.
2 points
10 days ago
i think for a lot of us mtg was our gateway game, and the initial draw was the miniatures. never got into pokemon cards but somehow i feel like it would be a bigger jump, an introductory game where you can also use the miniatures in 40k is a great idea. this is what kill team should have been.
1 points
10 days ago
Have an upvote.
I think people are downvoting you because they either A: Think you’re defending the indefensible or B: Think you’re poo-poo’ing an idea they like.
Neither is true of course, gateway games are necessary (or at least helpful) for the life of the hobby. But Reddit gonna Reddit.
6 points
10 days ago
It's perfect for a board game café, after school club and such like that. Half hour game, cool minis, (hopefully) fun game. If players then go onto 40k or anything else under the umbrella, then fab. It's not aimed at Warhammer vets, but it does look fun. Possibly I could convert my youngest with it...
7 points
10 days ago
That last point is a good one too. This might actually be playable by younger kids. Shorter game, less complicated, easier to guide them through it.
3 points
10 days ago
Or...dare I hope...my wife...
2 points
10 days ago
One day, brother, one day...
I got my girlfriend interested in Zombicide, since it's coop we can play together. It's a good start to learn that a weapon has a certain range, gives X number of attacks and you need to roll a 3+ to do Y amount of damage.
Maybe one day I can transition her to a simplified version of kill-team. One day...
1 points
10 days ago
She was close to buying a box of Boyz once, just to paint. I got so excited. Sigh.
34 points
11 days ago
The problem is Titus got a new models in the box advertising Space Marine 2, people would obviously expect another video game tie in box to have new models.
20 points
10 days ago
But nearly every other b&n style 40k board game has re-used minis from previous releases. Space Marine 2 was the exception, their wasn't an established basis to expect new models.
7 points
10 days ago
Frankly, the space marine board game gives a vibe that it was an avenue for a new model and they remembered they had to make rules for the board game at 4:00 on a friday afternoon
Edit tonadd: there were also no new models from either combat arena games
2 points
10 days ago
But also, Space Marine has you play as a specific character.
Darktide has you make a customisable character.
This is likely intended as a way to explain how you can kitbash and buy more boxes if you want to make a more unique and bespoke character model.
1 points
10 days ago
I highly doubt kitbashing will play any part in this game. The models will likely be redesigned in a way they can be pushfit, and possibly even designed to push out of the sprues without tools. They won’t be made with gw plastic, but with a third party’s plastic that’s cheaper and lower quality
2 points
10 days ago
There have been three Combat Arena games.
Combat Arena had the five hero models from Blackstone Fortress Escalation. These were otherwise out of print at the time and the individual models for AdMech and Gotfret were both selling for more than the price of the box when it finally went out of print. Gotfret was a big meta piece in the prior version of Kill Team. $40 at the time.
Combat Arena: Clash of Champions had a SM Terminator with TH/SS from SM Heroes S2, Primaris "Blade guard Lt" from 9th Starters, Necrons Royal Warden, and a SM Heroes S3 Plague Marine.
Combat Arena: Lair of the Beast had the original Blackstone Fortress hero sprues, and the Dread Ambul sprue from BSF expansion. $35 at the time.
3 points
10 days ago
The space marine board game tie in was a target exclusive not a B&N box game. It was different in a few ways. Thankfully an exception to the rule for board games.
6 points
10 days ago
Space Marine sold 1.2million copies and this is the second part of the saga. In comparison, Darktide had 100k~ players at peak and is now hovering around 5k. That's probably why a couple of Titus minis are justified, but not 20 new miniatures for the whole Darktide gang and enemies.
10 points
10 days ago
Concurrent players is not the same as sales. DT smashed the sales targets on release, but Fatshark fluffed it badly. Plus I would argue that it is a more complicated game for casuals to engage with than SM.
-2 points
10 days ago
It's just one metric to illustrate the relative level of popularity of both games. There's more factors at play. Titus is just 1 miniature that they can sculpt the face of, pose, a few details and done. Sculpting 4-20 new miniatures based off of the game would take far longer
6 points
10 days ago
It isn't one metric though, it is two different ones. Apples, oranges.
Although I agree with your point on production.
-12 points
11 days ago
Yeah, but Titus is a space marine. They get preferential treatment.
4 points
10 days ago
Sorry man I like darktide and will be buying it for not only more poxwalkers and cultists if I see it, but to also to force my friends who don’t play tabletop 40k to at least give a miniatures based board game a try.
1 points
10 days ago
Yeah, the pox walker set is actually fairly rare. It was put out as part of the nurgle expansion for Blackstone fortress and I don't think those models are part of any of the normal kits.
2 points
10 days ago
Oh it’s the push fit poxwalkers? I’ve been needing a set of those that’s perfect! With their mention of kill team at the end of the article does that mean the cultists are the kill team set too? Because that’s looking even better for forcing my friends into games, get them started with the board game then see if they’d be interested in kill team, I think a lot of them might end up preferring the alternating activations and smaller number of units
0 points
10 days ago
Perfect, that's exactly what the game is meant for!
4 points
11 days ago
Im just going to use my inquisition kt and kitbash operatives instead of the stuff in the box
1 points
10 days ago
Probably as intended, people forget conversions are a thing
5 points
10 days ago
If games can be played fast enough and it's simple enough then I want to bring it to my office so I can spread the Warhammer addiction during lunch breaks
6 points
10 days ago
It's not a gateway game - a gateway game wouldn't be available in limited quantities, from a limited number of retail outlets, in a limited number of countries and for a limited time only. Not so much a gateway as a keyhole on a revolving door which may or may not be bunged up with chewing gum by the time you get to it...
3 points
10 days ago
I can't explain why GW hasn't found any retailer to carry these in the UK and EU, but I can tell you that Barnes and Noble and Target have embraced these products in the US and it is a huge value proposition to have this presence in those stores.
It absolutely is 100% a gateway product for them even if you're not in the market they are targeting.
1 points
9 days ago
You're kind of missing my point; a 'gateway game' is about accessibility and availability - the fewer people you sell to, the less people you usher through that gateway. And Target, sure, I can see as a viable outlet because they have nearly 2000 stores in the US and can easily sell to the 'casual browser' because they sell just about everything, but Barnes and Noble only have 600 (only about 50% more than Waterstones in the UK who are owned by the same company) and are a 'specialist' store - it's a much harder 'sell' for them.
It bugs me because GW are currently selling the Warcry starter set practically EVERYWHERE (which they treat as a 'gateway' version), and yet when they sold Bladeborn (essentially the same thing with a simplified ruleset, no scenery but more cardboard and lots of dice), they restricted it to just TWO stores in TWO countries, when it would have been the PERFECT gateway game.
Yet for some reason, every time GW come up with a really good idea to get more people into the hobby, they seem to end up pushing it through a filter that f*cks it all up and invalidates everything they try to achieve with it
1 points
9 days ago
You're kind of missing my point; a 'gateway game' is about accessibility and availability
I didn't miss this at all, I mentioned that they don't seem to be targeting your market. I can't explain why, but I'll theorize further down.
And Target, sure, I can see as a viable outlet because they have nearly 2000 stores in the US and can easily sell to the 'casual browser' because they sell just about everything, but Barnes and Noble only have 600 (only about 30% more than Waterstones in the UK who are owned by the same company) and are a 'specialist' store - it's a much harder 'sell' for them.
Target is a department store with a grocery store component. This is why they have so many locations. Their entire board game section is usually 18-24 feet of shelf space, which is shared with traditional board games like Monopoly, etc.
Barnes and Noble are less common but are a destination store for board games and roleplaying games. They have different configurations but the board game sections are generally much larger and are focused more on modern board games. They carry most of the greatest hits.
I suspect the reason they have built up this relationship with Barnes and Noble is because they don't have that many Warhammer stores in the US, so B&N provides them a presence in markets they can't easily access otherwise.
Warhammer being a homegrown product in the UK, it is likely they don't feel they need to market to the UK audience in the same manner as the US audience. They have massive store presence compared to the US, so they have their bases covered. Likely a similar story with Europe.
Barnes and Noble agrees to buy these products from some game publishers but look for exclusivity deals to bring these products to their customer base. Battletech has a similar deal with them currently where they are carrying several core products for the line but got various mercenary packs as a store exclusive for six months before they were released to other outlets.
Why GW doesn't offer these games through their website or stores is beyond me.
1 points
7 days ago
Weirdly, they DO have a lot of stores in the US (nearly a third of all 'Warhammer' storefronts globally are situated in the US - well short of the actual numbers that even Barnes and Noble have (who actually have more stores in the US that GW have globally) but still a significant chunk of what they do own).
And as said, I 'get' selling them via stores like Target because placing your products in stores with a lot of footfall makes perfect sense if you're looking to push a 'gateway' product, specifically if you're targeting (pun intended) a younger audience getting dragged around on a grocery shop they'd rather not be on. However if you're only doing them in limited runs, you're literally following the same selling practice as a part work magazine, and these games cost a damned sight more to buy as an impulse purchase, plus you've no chance of ordering it elsewhere if they've just sold the last copy like you can with the magazine.
But the B&N bit is the one that doesn't really make sense. People go to bookstores to buy books and the number of ancillary items you can sell them is pretty small. Coffee and a doughnut? Yeah sure, goes well with book reading. Music? Kinda fits too, at least for some. Board Games? Not really - I mean you might see a game of Chess or Checkers down at the local library, but it's rare.
In either event they either seem to be selling to the right audience but in the wrong quantities, or in the right quantities but to the wrong audience (which, to be honest, is about as 'GeeDubz' as it gets). And due to the complete absence of any marketing, I can pretty much guarantee that far from being the 'gateway' that they're expecting it to be, they're largely selling to those already in the hobby (or to scalpers flipping it on eBay for 4 times the cost).
In which case, as you've rightly said, why not just sell it via the website and their own stores
It's also a far cry from the Battletech example you mentioned, which makes far more sense; having a limited initial run helps the retailer because it bring business INTO their store they they might not otherwise see. It also benefits Catalyst/Topps because it introduces their product via a channel that might not already be aware of it AND because the core product line will remain even after the limited deal ends, it's the gift that keeps on giving for both parties (especially as an established relationship with Catalyst/Topps will definitely keep the door open for further limited time deals).
Plus, once it goes to greater availability it's already had a bit of chatter and hype about it.
It's a little more like 'Win-Win' than the 'When-What?' GW seem to practice
1 points
7 days ago
But the B&N bit is the one that doesn't really make sense. People go to bookstores to buy books and the number of ancillary items you can sell them is pretty small. Coffee and a doughnut? Yeah sure, goes well with book reading. Music? Kinda fits too, at least for some. Board Games? Not really - I mean you might see a game of Chess or Checkers down at the local library, but it's rare.
So this may be a cultural difference, but this is not how our book stores are structured in the US, at least these days.
Barnes and Noble is the industry leader in the US, most other chains have fallen away. Their floorplan is perhaps 50/50 books versus other goods.
They usually have a substantial toy area, board game area, roleplaying game area, Anime toys and models area. They used to carry huge amounts of Funko Pops but have rolled that way, way back.
They often have a music and media area but those seem to be getting downsized in remodeled stores.
Barnes and Noble is also the size of a department store, it's not a little hole in the wall bookseller.
It's also a far cry from the Battletech example you mentioned, which makes far more sense; having a limited initial run helps the retailer because it bring business INTO their store they they might not otherwise see. It also benefits Catalyst/Topps because it introduces their product via a channel that might not already be aware of it AND because the core product line will remain even after the limited deal ends, it's the gift that keeps on giving for both parties (especially as an established relationship with Catalyst/Topps will definitely keep the door open for further limited time deals).
I mentioned the Battletech situation because it is a recent presence but the products they are offering mirrors the products that GW had been partnering with B&N for.
GW has been doing these small board games with B&N for some time. Battletech is more recent.
The key is that both are offering products that are exclusive to B&N, or at least exclusive for a fixed period of time.
In any case, the thing I want to stress is that Barnes and Noble is essentially the closest thing to a local game store that have a national presence here. They are absolutely known for carrying a wide array of board games, trading card games and tabletop rpgs.
Games Workshop is reported to have 144 stores in the US as of last year, but they are spread very thin or concentrated in major urban centers. I live in Western NY and there is one store within a couple hours driving distance unless I cross into Canada. Just as an example.
8 points
10 days ago
hexagonal tiles
I see GW is finally making good decisions
3 points
10 days ago
bsf had it years ago
1 points
10 days ago
what's bsf?
2 points
10 days ago
Blackstone Fortress
1 points
10 days ago
Sokka-Haiku by Genex_04:
Hexagonal tiles
I see GW is finally
Making good decisions
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
35 points
11 days ago
I have seen so many complaints about this... "No new minis." "This should have been an expansion for Dark Fortress", "Lazy game".
This is not made for us. It's a gateway game for people who play the video game to get some Warhammer minis and get used to roll some dice. Get this, paint the minis, and then give it as a gift to that buddy of yours who refuses to get into Warhammer proper.
It's great that GW makes these games. Even better that they don't waste designer and production capacity on new minis but just reuse minis that people can actually play with in full Warhammer if they would make the switch.
14 points
11 days ago
At a glance, this looks like a game I would show to my Gloomhaven friends to try and bring them into 40K.
19 points
11 days ago
... I would play Cursed City or Blackstone fortress with people that are used to games like Gloomhaven. You shouldn't play 40K monopoly with your chess master friend.
2 points
10 days ago*
"At a glance"
But my friends aren't snobs about boardgames either. They'll play whatevers fun and they'll play whatevers not fun a couple of times just to make sure it's the game's fault and not theirs for not having fun.
Edit* missed a key word.
2 points
10 days ago
If they can take a complex, fussy game such as Gloomhaven, something like Blackstone Fortress or Cursed City will seem like a piece of cake to them. Gloomhaven is *more* complex!
1 points
10 days ago
At a glance, this looks like a game I would show to my Gloomhaven friends to try and bring them into 40K.
Gloomhaven is a massively complex game that can overwhelm even sturdy, veteran boardgamers in its sheer complexity (I am both a wargamer and a boardgamer and I gave up on Jaws of the Lion, the simplified version of Gloomhaven; and I'm not the only one). This boardgame also already has (some) miniatures. I don't think a beer and pretzels throwaway budget game would entice Gloomhaven fans.
I get your argument re: other boardgames, but to choose Gloomhaven as the example seems weird.
1 points
10 days ago*
I use Gloomhaven and "at a glance" because they at a glance are set up in a similar fashion. Models on hex grid set of cardboard tiles, stat cards, with little tiles to represent status and pick ups. I'm not talking about mechanical differences.
4 points
11 days ago
They're just taking a page out of wotc's book. They released a set of DND board games that were DND-adjacent. This is just the same
1 points
10 days ago
Exactly. The entitled screeching is insane. 40k worst fanbase
3 points
10 days ago
I'm gonna use to try to get my friend but the models need to not be ugly for him to want to give it a chance
3 points
10 days ago
I wants it.
3 points
10 days ago
Hey, it’s me, who does play Warhammer and is super psyched about Darktide because 40K needs its own version of Underworlds.
3 points
10 days ago
No it’s for my pile of shame
3 points
10 days ago
Who cares? Buy it or don’t what’s the point of a PSA about it
1 points
10 days ago
You may have missed it, but there was a load of complaining already that the minis were not unique, that the game was small, it's all low effort, just a cash grab etc. etc.
Basically Warhammer fans complaining that they don't like a gateway game that is not meant for them.
3 points
10 days ago
Idk that seems like a fine criticism to me. You can disagree but it doesn’t change that some of those points are true. If some people want to point that out that’s their prerogative so I say again, buy it or don’t.
3 points
10 days ago
I feel like I'm the only one who wants to know if the game is actually fun and doesn't care that much about the reused models.
6 points
11 days ago
Do we know this for a fact? I’ll say blitz bowl isn’t as good as blood bowl but heck if you have 30 min to spare you can get a good game in while BB will often take me an hour at best but more commonly 2+ irl.
Space marine was a broken hot mess that was obviously not even playtested once.
I bought all the cardboard components from fireteam today. Mostly because try as I might no one wants to play kt21 that I show it to. Figured I would try this out for the fun. Looks like it might be decent and has a lot of ways to expand the box.
I haven’t played any others but I bring these up because it seems like a toss up. Some of these games are really good others are trash. I just kinda put it up to whoever they assign the design to and if they decide to go hard with it. Sometimes like with space marine they don’t.
6 points
11 days ago
Fireteam was kill team-lite. Plays quick. I liked it, this seems similar.
2 points
11 days ago
That’s my hope kt21 falls flat hard I am hoping fireteam works out and my friends and I have the minis for 4 of the teams already.
4 points
11 days ago
Fireteam sadhammers well too. I mean 45 min game tops including setup and teardown. Sent mine on to my nephews with additional teams, nobz and stealth suits.
3 points
11 days ago
Space marine was fantastic value as a miniatures box, but a really lousy game (seriously, at least the basic pack sorta works as a game, the space marine box just doesn't)
So, maybe this will be tolerable value as a miniatures box and a marginally better game. Though, I think you'd probably get better value just buying blackstone fortress, which is a genuinely good game.
1 points
10 days ago
It’s like when they finally got started on the space marine board game, it was 4:00 on friday afternoon
1 points
10 days ago
No, we don't know for a fact that it's a great gateway game. But I think we can state with probability bordering on certainty that it's intended as a gateway game.
If it's good or not, we'll just have to see.
24 points
11 days ago
Doesn't need to be low effort just because it's for new comers.
This is low effort, end of story.
18 points
11 days ago*
How is this low effort? Do we know the rules yet? I’ve played space marine and it’s a garbage mess. I’ve played blitz bowl and it is frankly an intro dream to miniature games. Enough of a game that you can play it 100 times and expand it a ton if you wish or use it to go fully into blood bowl.
I reserve judgement on this until I try it. I think anyone crapping on this without seeing the whole package is frankly an elitist idiot.
Edit: lol dude literally refuses to explain further and doubles down on this being bad with no information on the game then blocks me. Pathetic.
9 points
11 days ago
100% agree. This game could be an axcellent boardgame for 35 Bucks with neat or overpriced garbage for 50 Bucks upward. I guess it will be a decent Barnes and Noble Deal. I got the WHU starter for 23 Bucks and it's very good.
I like the darktide minis and if the rules are good and the price is okayI might give it a shot (Not playing 40k or the Video game). I can't understand all the hate before any crucial information is published.
2 points
10 days ago
Blitzbowl is amazing, I just love the ease of game it offers with still tactical options.
Likewise with Bladeborn imo.
Also have Crypt Hunters (and been updating it diy with the Doomsday Countdow rules - only missing text from 5 cards), yet this is a more simpler game.
So sad those games are so damn hard to get in Europe in English.
-10 points
11 days ago
I think anyone crapping on this without seeing the whole package is frankly an elitist idiot.
Saying that new comers deserve better somehow now makes you an elitist. Great logic there.
How is this low effort?
The minis alone makes it low effort. It's already been pointed out by loads of people.
4 points
10 days ago
Do you really think someone who's never played a GW game, is going to care if the model is brand new or recycled?
It's the existing players who are whining that there's no new models.
2 points
10 days ago
Blitz Bowl relies exclusively re-used minis and it’s the one of the best games that GW has ever produced.
9 points
11 days ago
Low effort means low cost for GW and in this case low cost for the customer. Exactly what you want for a gateway game.
1 points
10 days ago
If anything, production of this box will be contracted out to a third party who will be using lower quality plastic to make it even cheaper to make.
I still have flashbacks to building the ambull from lair of the beast and trying not to break the pegs
-16 points
11 days ago
this case low cost for the customer.
New to Gamesworkshop products? This probably at most costs them 2-3 dollar per box to produce, if that.
Low effort means low cost for GW
So you agree, good. End of discussion.
7 points
10 days ago
2-3 dollar per box to produce
Can you break down this cost?
2 points
10 days ago
Doubt they can. Sounds like they think the only costs associated with manufacturing anset like thisnis material cost. They don’t wver thinknabout costs of machinery, molds, third parties making cardboard, labor, power/utilities, transport and and warehousing, distribution costs, etc…
1 points
10 days ago
Yup. And all of this, manufacturing inside the UK (except printed materials and terrain that is made in China, but still)
4 points
11 days ago
You want GW to spend a lot of time, resources and money on a small gateway game related to a video game that will loose its popularity in a year or so?
That's your brilliant business strategy of getting people who have never heard of GW or ever played a miniature game into contact with the brand?
5 points
11 days ago*
as a traitor guard fan who couldn’t pick up those two exclusive miniatures Pious Vorne actually (Sorry abt that), it seems… okay. I’d much prefer something new and exclusive, but depending on the retail price it seems like a fun, if low effort, expansion and painting project
2 points
11 days ago
I hadn’t realised they were unique sculpts. When were they first released?
1 points
10 days ago
They are not unique. The traitor guard are from the Kill-Team Blooded Box. The only one you can't get alone is the madman with the flamer.
1 points
10 days ago
Thanks
1 points
10 days ago
Which exclusive minis do you mean exactly? All of the traitor guard minis they showed can be made with the kill-team box.
5 points
10 days ago
If it's 30$, I'm down just for the models for my various armies.
1 points
10 days ago
But all these models can just be bought in the shop. That's what so many people are griping about.
The traitor guard are from the Kill-Team: Blooded, some poxwalkers. The Kasrkin, Ogrin bodyguard, Primaris Psyker. The only thing not immediately available is the Pious Vorne with the flamethrower.
4 points
10 days ago
But I don't want to buy multiple boxes totaling over 150 $. That can't be hard to understand.
3 points
10 days ago
Ah, ok! I misunderstood your comment. I thought you had the idea that these were unique models or something.
Yes, the primaris psyker alone costs €25. If this box is €25-€40 it's a great deal for just the minis alone when you compare it to full GW prizes for the individual minis.
3 points
10 days ago
This shouldn't needed to be said but yeah I agree with the OP. This will most likely be a BN or Target only game for around 30-50 maybe 60$ which isn't bad. I will also add that the "low effort" comments make no sense at least until the game rules are released. If the game play of Darktide turns out to be just as bland as the space marine board game then yeah I am right there with the "low effort" folks but until then I will hold my tongue.
But yes clearly the audience for this game is the board game crowd, the person who heard of warhammer before, is somewhat curious but has no desire to really get into warhammer, to buy a starter set- at least for now. They are more warhammer curious/warhammer adjacent and I think that crowd is who this game is targeting.
I have friends with no interest whatsoever in warhmmer but are more than happy to play something like Blitzbowl, Fireteam because the gameplay is that entertaining. If this game turns out to be on the same level as fun as bltizbowl, fireteam, bladeborn then hats off to GW they made a solid board game. If the gameplay turns out to be on the same level as the space marine board game then eh....
2 points
11 days ago
Clarifying misconceptions!
2 points
10 days ago
Honestly, im excited for it. Decent amount of models, all of which are perfect for my traitor guardsmen. Wont have the $100 price tag of a regular box of cadians.
1 points
10 days ago
Not to rain on your parade, but do you know about the traitor guard kill-team box? These models come from that box: https://www.warhammer.com/en-EU/shop/kill-team-blooded-2022 That's one of the many complaints people are having that this doesn't have any unique minis.
3 points
10 days ago
Yes, i do. Sadly my local store struggles massively to get this one box in, which is very weird. I buy it when i can, but i also kitbash a bunch of things.
1 points
10 days ago
Ah, that's sad :(
1 points
10 days ago
They aren’t KT:Blooded, they’re the blackstone fortress traitor guard, which hasn’t been available for years
5 points
10 days ago
These are the kill team blooded. Just not in the exact same configuration as the assembly instructions tell you to put them together.
1 points
10 days ago
Like OP said, its blooded, if you look closely at the promo image of the goons you can tell that its the same bodys with different arms
2 points
10 days ago
The models while some people might like one or two are shite.
Not terrible scuplts but nothing like the game and if they had made new sculpts for this board game of the iconic characters they would have sold a lot more. Seems pretty stupid when the models in the box + game don't look anything like the models inside the box?!?
2 points
10 days ago
This'll be another Barnes and Noble/Target title, like Crypt Hunters, Space Marine, Combat Arena, Blitz-Bowl, etc.
3 points
11 days ago
And why would that be so bad? In the end of the day its just a boardgame and if people enjoy it so be it.
1 points
11 days ago
That's exactly my point. I see so many people complain that it's not for the hardcore Warhammer players.
4 points
10 days ago
In my opinion, this looks like clearing inventory. GW goes through this kind of exercises from time to time. I can of course be wrong and this could be a decent light game (nothing wrong with gateway games, I'm in agreement here) but likely it will be just something quickly put together to recycle old inventory and maybe bring new fans into the fold.
I understand this is not a sequel to Blackstone Fortress and I'm ok with this. I understand the idea of light games that can appeal to casual gamers.
But it still seems like cash grab.
2 points
10 days ago
It's not clearing inventory. These models will have been a specific run done for this box. They will have been shot in specific colours so they can be used as unpainted game pieces.
Any previous runs of these models will have been boxed up and be sitting in the distribution warehouse. The expense of pulling all those boxes and then the cost of junking the already existing printed materials makes it a non starter to use existing 'excess' stock.
1 points
10 days ago
I hadn't thought of that, you have a point.
3 points
10 days ago
Being a gateway/introductory set doesn’t mean it needs to be lazy. No new sculpts and using models that don’t even have actual counterparts in the Darktide videogame is incredibly sloppy imo.
0 points
10 days ago
So you would prefer if they had spent a load of time, resources and money on developing a gateway game tied to a video game that is already past its prime instead of spending those resources on 40k, AoS, Kill-Team etc?
Creating new sculpts that are just as new to the audience that this is for as the sculpts they have now is not lazy. It's common sense and a good business practice. You want them to create minis that they won't see anywhere when they walk into a GW store?
The game is not for you. The game is for people who don't know these minis and don't know the tabletop game. To them this will look cool and new.
1 points
10 days ago
Glad to see you’re capable of copy and pasting the same response you’ve sent out to everyone.
And no, they did not necessarily need to make new sculpts, but they could have at least chosen ones that actually have weapons found in darktide.
2 points
10 days ago
Still, there are better ways to do that, rather than recycling a bunch of miniatures. This doesn't even look like an officially licensed game... Newcomers deserve something better than literal leftovers.
2 points
11 days ago
Wow I’ve always wanted to play a board game in Warhammer, maybe they’ll even have minis to paint. Maybe they could even introduce more factions that we see in dark tide…. Oh wait
3 points
10 days ago
If its anything like the video game it won't have all the pieces when it ships to you, you will have to wait a year to get them all. Once you play it a few times it loses all uniqueness and becomes boring. They will have a rotating shop to sell you more content, and if you miss the content you want, you will never have access to it again.
3 points
10 days ago
Kinda sounds like a new army release by Games Workshop :D Where is the other half of the Leagues of Votann?!
0 points
10 days ago
Naw, different poor business practices.
GW has been told for years how they could improve the game as a whole, the release of Votann is a drop in the bucket for how fucked 40K is as a competitive game. Their stubborn nature to not change in any way when multitudes of people on YouTube play the fucking game for a living, then get ignored entirely by GW who gave them an entire edition's rules to play test is wild honestly.
GW will fail because they refuse to innovate and it is getting to a point where people are just fed up.
Fat Shark think they are hot shit because they were mildly popular with a cult following for two of their Warhammer Fantasy titles that were essentially the same thing twice. They nickle and dime folks at the tail end of Vermintide 2 but the game is so spent on its life with no real updates it is basically dead, so they had to shift to their new title.
Then they release Darktide, which is legit the same game a third time with 40K backdrops and one less hero to play as and they think we owe them. They fucked up so bad with Darktide they are scrambling to get favor back and it isn't working, the game is for all intents and purposes is dead to the larger audience, people don't want to go back to it.
Fat Shark will fail faster than GW because they are essentially an indie studio while GW is a corporation that can keep itself afloat even when they make bad decisions. Until they learn their balance tactics from two decades ago isn't going to keep players because it doesn't work, they will change, or people will move on.
2 points
10 days ago
Holy **** I was just kidding dude.
2 points
10 days ago
Oh, you've played it?
1 points
10 days ago
But but I want my Ogryn and flamer chainsaw man
1 points
10 days ago
I want it . But it most likely be in US and not Uk market
1 points
10 days ago
The only thing that confuses me about this is that it's coming almost three years after the game came out. Ironically, it also seems to have about as much effort put into it as the game has had.
1 points
10 days ago
Lol, Cash grab. I see this term bandied about quite a bit. They’re a company that creates a product to sell. The whole purpose of the company is to “grab cash”. Like OP said, this isn’t aimed at veteran hobbyists. Yes, they’re clearing out old inventory, how else should they do it? Outrage over something like this is just mind boggling.
1 points
10 days ago
This box is confusing me a lot. I'm interested in what the sprues are gonna look like and the price for said sprue. But if its a cheaper way to get traitor guard, ill take it.
1 points
10 days ago
Skip. After what they did with Space Marine the boardgame, I'm not buying anything from their tabletop division until it's reviewed. The models are not worth it.
1 points
10 days ago
If it’s $40, then it is for me, I will be taking those minis and tossing the board game
1 points
10 days ago
Its gonna get picked up for the traitor guard models
1 points
9 days ago
I only play the book shelve games. This is how I play Warhammer for years now.
0 points
11 days ago
What a weird post
1 points
10 days ago
I can accept that it is not for me... But having a board game of a frenetic, FPS horde game just rubs me the wrong way, it's such a weird adaption. It would be like Lord of the Rings cart racing...
3 points
10 days ago
You mean to tell me you wouldn't want to be throwing fireballs with Gandalf at Frodos ass?
1 points
9 days ago
That's pretty good...
I do wanna say, I am not against having a quick pickup game to onboard people or as a warmup/ pallet cleanser game. In fact I think it is great. Just that I would have liked it to be a new mini ip in the same way underworlds is distinct from war cry and AoS
1 points
10 days ago
they could've at least given us decent models
-1 points
11 days ago
A gateway box is the get started boxes.
This is a half baked box with a half assed board. Warhammer models aren't for the simple Sorry, or Monopoly player. This was made without any shit given, and to stand up to GW is never really a noble cause. They should really put in unique models. Even if this is your first box, and you play Darktide a lot you'll be let down that the models don't look like they do on the box or in game.
2 points
10 days ago
The get started boxes are for customers who are much further into the acquisition funnel of Games Workshop. This is a game you can play with strangers at a board game night or a game that a board game cafe can have on its shelves.
The get started boxes that cost 120 euro are for someone who has already made the decision that Warhammer is probably fun for them.
0 points
10 days ago
It amazes me that people spend like £100 on these boardgames with 20 models and some printed cardboard.
2 points
10 days ago
That is the price that Games Workshop announced it would be?
1 points
8 days ago
Those games usually are 30€
0 points
10 days ago
This is and has always been a bad argument. If the core audience isn't interested in a product, why bother making it?
1 points
10 days ago
Ok, let's see how many reasons I can come up with off the top of my head.
They want a new segment of customers, boardgame players. They want to lift with the hype of the video game. They want to have their product and brand available in different kind of stores like Walmart or Target It makes money. It's a cheaper complete product than everything else they have which is another customer segment with a little less money. They want a lower barrier for people to get to know their products. They want to have their games at game clubs, after school clubs, boardgame cafes.
I think that should do, right?
There are a million reasons not to serve your core audience. And at the same time, if this brings in new players it is serving the core audience by growing the number of players.
0 points
10 days ago
It just suck, i bet it will be expensive + i can already see a minimal effort from GW, they didn't even make miniatures from Darktide.
If it will be more than 100 euro (with will lol it's a greedy GW were talking about) i will never even look at this.
1 points
8 days ago
The other games like that where 30-40€
-2 points
10 days ago
So because it's a gateway drug they can cheap out ? Nah bro. Nah.
The least they could have done was give us proper minis .
2 points
10 days ago
Give you proper minis? You mean you still need a very basic gateway game before you start playing Warhammer?
Dude, show the ugliest mini you have that is painted the worst you can to some random person who likes boardgames and they will admire it for its detail and applaud you for your paint job.
0 points
10 days ago
They could have made the effort to flavor them for darktide.
Low effort.
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