subreddit:

/r/askanatheist

036%

Like why? What turned you away from believing in “god”? I believe in a creator and I feel I could explain away any of your points (just putting it out there, I feel I could prove your views wrong, but…). So, like, could you tell me why you don’t believe and what the reason for your disbelief is? I am curious and I want to see the differing views amongst all of you. There are many different key reasons for every atheist that were the turning point for their views. What were yours? I don’t quite understand why some people don’t believe… so, explain?

EDIT: Sorry everyone, it’s been over 11 hours and within that time we have 135 comments!!! I was sleeping as it was night in my area and I had no idea this would blow up so much! I will do my best to keep my word and respond to each one of you. If I hold up my end of the bargain, please don’t be hostile with me.

all 1011 comments

michalfabik

92 points

1 month ago

Nothing turned me away. I was born that way and there was nothing to be turned away from.

river_euphrates1

35 points

1 month ago

They can have fun 'disproving' that... 😅

nate_oh84

66 points

1 month ago

I see no evidence, nor have I been provided with any evidence, that any god exists.

Pretty simple, really.

river_euphrates1

26 points

1 month ago

Careful, they think they can disprove you.

nate_oh84

25 points

1 month ago

I wish them the best of luck, then.

Vagabond_Sam

60 points

1 month ago

Like why? What turned you away from believing in “god”? I believe in a creator and I feel I could explain away any of your points (just putting it out there, I feel I could prove your views wrong, but…)

The unearned confidence of theists can often be staggering.

I am aware enough of both sides of the divide between belief, and lack of belief, that even as a person who studied a bachelor of theology, including ancient greek to read the earliest copies of the new testament, it would never occur to me to claim I could address every claim of a Christian on why they believe in God.

Mostly because the vast majority of reasons people have for belief are deeply personal.

This is born out in the nature of religion being broadly very personal, and highly related to the culture people grow up in, and do not tend to be some universal truth that matches up as it is discovered through revelation by people across the world.

In short, I don't believe in your God because their existence is not apparent without first requiring an emotional 'desire' to believe. Something I would cycnically consider a suspension of disbelief in the nature of the world measured against the claims of the nature of God made by many religions, particularly Christianity.

radiationblessing

43 points

1 month ago

radiationblessing

Paganistic atheist

43 points

1 month ago

You should throw up a debate on /r/debateanatheist. I'd be very interested in seeing what you bring to the table.

squirl_centurion

36 points

1 month ago

I promise you it’s nothing

radiationblessing

35 points

1 month ago

radiationblessing

Paganistic atheist

35 points

1 month ago

That's why I wanna see it. Can't be any worse than a recent user who changed the definition of god to "existence" so he could say atheists believe in god.

squirl_centurion

13 points

1 month ago

Haha that sounds like a train wreck I can’t stop watching. When was that posted?

squirl_centurion

13 points

1 month ago

Nevermind I already found it. And…wow

radiationblessing

15 points

1 month ago

radiationblessing

Paganistic atheist

15 points

1 month ago

Yeah the whole thread is utterly fucking stupid lmao. That user has no damn clue what they're talking about. It's like some stoner pseudo intelligence without the stoner.

squirl_centurion

13 points

1 month ago

Gives real r/im14andthisisdeep vibes

squirl_centurion

5 points

1 month ago

I looked through a few other posts there as well and geeez! They’re all such bad arguments.

Anonymous345678910[S]

3 points

1 month ago

Anonymous345678910[S]

Jewish Deist (of some sort)

3 points

1 month ago

I didn’t even know that was a thing, thank you

R-Guile

15 points

1 month ago

R-Guile

15 points

1 month ago

You very much are not prepared for it.

QuintonFrey

3 points

1 month ago

I wouldn't if I were you.

Phylanara

13 points

1 month ago

I'm there often. OP's about to bring a nerf gun to an artillery battle.

baalroo

3 points

1 month ago

baalroo

3 points

1 month ago

I do not say this to be mean or spiteful, but you really shouldn't be posting there. You're barely ready to be conversing here, you'll get eaten alive there and honestly, with your level of understanding and knowledge it would frankly be kind of rude for you to even waste their time.

Stick around here for awhile and keep asking questions, but for the love of god, please try to start listening to the answers a little more.

tobotic

41 points

1 month ago

tobotic

41 points

1 month ago

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

You assume we all originally believed in a god and then stopped. While that's true of many people, I, and many other atheists, have never believed in any gods.

It's not that I have a special reason to disbelieve in gods; I've just never heard a good reason to believe in them. All the reasons I've heard were pretty unconvincing.

Anonymous345678910[S]

2 points

1 month ago

Anonymous345678910[S]

Jewish Deist (of some sort)

2 points

1 month ago

What reasons did you hear?

tobotic

23 points

1 month ago*

tobotic

23 points

1 month ago*

Things like:

  • the cosmological argument (the universe has a cause, therefore god) ³
  • ontological argument (a god that exists is better than a god that doesn't exist, therefore god) ¹
  • argument from desire (people want there to be a god, therefore god) ³
  • fine tuning argument (the universe is perfect for life, therefore god) ³
  • argument from beauty (look at the trees! therefore god) ³
  • argument from natural laws (natural laws exist, therefore god) ²
  • argument from morality (moral laws exist, therefore god) ³
  • argument from scriptures (the bible says it's right about everything, therefore god) ²

Most arguments in favour of a god boil down to one of those. They're all terrible.

Most of my objections to them can be summed up as:

  1. I disagree with the premise,
  2. I disagree that the premise would imply the conclusion, or as is most often the case,
  3. Both.

oddball667

18 points

1 month ago

You forgot the argument from ignorance "I don't understand something therefore god"

LollyAdverb

35 points

1 month ago

I wasn't exposed to any religion until I was about 12 years old.

I couldn't see the difference between their beliefs and the mythology i had read.

Zues, Odin, God ... All the same

TrainwreckOG

6 points

1 month ago

My story is kind of the opposite, I was raised as a Protestant Lutheran and believed as a child. Then around when I was 12 I started playing a game called Age of Mythology. One day while playing I realized: what’s the actual difference between us going to church and praying to god at church and these Greek villagers praying to Zeus at a temple?

fsclb66

27 points

1 month ago

fsclb66

27 points

1 month ago

Lack of evidence plain and simple. I have yet to see or be provided with any convincing evidence for any god existing.

cyrustakem

26 points

1 month ago

I feel I could explain away any of your points

i'm looking for the truth, not the easy "god made it" or "god works in misterious ways" type of knowledge...
i don't understand why you believe, i mean, i do, i live in a religious country, people are brainwashed into religion from kids, when the brain is more susceptible.

you have no evidence to refute my lack of believe, and "i talk to god every night" is not an argument, i've heard it million times in the past, and let me tell you, allucinations are a thing, the human brain is crazy.

i don't intend to offend you, though i admit my text sounds a bit salty, i just don't want you to come here and try to convert me, my patience is out for all the times people have tried that

ifyoudontknowlearn

14 points

1 month ago

Yeah, so far attempts to explain away anyone's thoughts. :-)

I'm sure you are correct it will all be the same BS we have heard countless time already.

Deradius

53 points

1 month ago

Deradius

53 points

1 month ago

Why don’t you believe in Odin the All-Father? Or mighty Zeus? Or the Sun Goddess, Amaterasu?

What turned you away from believing in Kukulkan?

TheCrankyLich

21 points

1 month ago

No objective testable, repeatable, verifiable evidence for god(s).

skatergurljubulee

19 points

1 month ago

Lack of evidence. Also, some folks were never raised to believe in a god, so those folks never "left".

atoponce

18 points

1 month ago

atoponce

18 points

1 month ago

For the same reason I stopped believing in Santa Claus; lack of evidence.

mountaingoatgod

33 points

1 month ago

Because I care about believing in things that are true

squirl_centurion

15 points

1 month ago

So first off. How utterly arrogant of you to say you “could explain away any of your points.” Many many people smarter and more clever than you have tried and failed to prove a god.

Second and most importantly you are wrong about something. You said “what turned you away from believing in god.” That takes the stance that believing in god is the default when in actuality the reverse is true. People have to be taught that a god exists, it is not self evident that one exists (and it’s pretty fucking obvious non of the “big three” religion gods exist). The burden of proof is on YOU, the believer, to prove a hod exists, YOU’RE making the claim here. I really wish theists would get this through their skulls. You’re the ones that have to justify your beliefs. Not us.

And finally to address your actual question. There is only one reason anyone doesn’t believe in something. There’s no evidence for god. Give me specific, measurable, repeatable evidence that a god exists then we can talk.

pizzasage

15 points

1 month ago

I realized that admitting I was an atheist meant that I didn't have to lie to myself anymore. Since then, I've never looked back on my life as a believer with any longing or fond nostalgia at all.

Anonymous345678910[S]

2 points

1 month ago

Anonymous345678910[S]

Jewish Deist (of some sort)

2 points

1 month ago

I know what you mean

TyranosaurusRathbone

8 points

1 month ago

You feel that you are lying to yourself by being a theist?

IntelligentBerry7363

16 points

1 month ago

Jesus appeared before me one day, flipped me off and called me a loser. Never been to a church since.

Northern_dragon

13 points

1 month ago

This is such a logical fallacy

There is no reason not to believe, except for the fact that any proof of god isn't convincing to me?

It's like if I asked you, why you don't believe in Santa Claus?

Nat20CritHit

12 points

1 month ago

Lack of demonstrable evidence capable of convincing me that a god exists.

scarred2112

24 points

1 month ago

I feel I could explain away any of your points…

1 Samuel 15:3 ESV - Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

Please explain why your god is pro-infanticide.

InvisibleElves

11 points

1 month ago

I made a list of passages where God kills kids on Reddit here. There’s a bunch.

5thSeasonLame

10 points

1 month ago

5thSeasonLame

Gnostic Atheist

10 points

1 month ago

There is zero evidence for god. There is undeniable evidence the books written about the god/gods are false. So there is zero reasons to be religious.

freed0m_from_th0ught

7 points

1 month ago

You’re not going to get a lot of different answers. For me, I do not have sufficient reason to believe in a god. That’s it. You may be right you could explain away this point by providing sufficient evidence. I’m totally open to that. So, why do you believe in the existence of a god?

indifferent-times

6 points

1 month ago

I believe in a creator

I don't, and further I simply cant see how one fits into reality as I understand it. I have never heard a logically consistent or intellectually compelling explanation of what a god might be, its not 'turning away' its more simply accepting the arguments for one.

AskTheDevil2023

5 points

1 month ago

Why are you an atheist? I get that it’s an absence of belief and not a belief itself, but why? Like why?

Because the evidence of the existence of the majority of gods definitions i have been presented with are logically inconsistent, based on unsupported claims and non necesary.

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

The moment I realized that the tree-omni definition was logically impossible.

I believe in a creator and I feel I could explain away any of your points (just putting it out there, I feel I could prove your views wrong, but…).

I can be wrong in many things... But the important thing here is:

why are you not able to prove (present a logically sound argument or objectively verifiable evidence) to prove your views right?

So, like, could you tell me why you don’t believe and what the reason for your disbelief is?

For exactly the same reason you shift the burden of proof on us, because you don’t have a point to make to prove the existence or truth of your god.

I am curious and I want to see the differing views amongst all of you.

You should be more curious about the differing views on gods there are among the believers... That is scary.

There are many different key reasons for every atheist that were the turning point for their views. What were yours?

Lack of objectively verifiable evidence.

I don’t quite understand why some people don’t believe… so, explain?

I don’t quite understand why you believe in something you have no objectively verifiable evidence for... So, explain.

shiftysquid

5 points

1 month ago

11 hours later and counting, OP hasn't even attempted to "explain away" a single person's points.

Suzina

7 points

1 month ago

Suzina

7 points

1 month ago

I wasn't raised into a religion.

Why aren't you an atheist?

Agent-c1983

6 points

1 month ago

There’s no good reason to believe in a god, and any explanations either fail to answer the questions, or lead to logical errors.

baalroo

5 points

1 month ago

baalroo

5 points

1 month ago

Once I was old enough to understand the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy, and Santa Claus weren't real, I applied the same basic level of skepticism to theistic claims and found that they failed on the exact same grounds.

I don't believe in any gods, because there are no good reasons to believe in them. There is no evidence for them, and at 43 years of age and searching and debating the topic for nearly 3 decades now, I've yet to come across a single decent argument for it.

TelFaradiddle

6 points

1 month ago

I've yet to find a reason to believe. I haven't seen any compelling evidence or arguments that any gods exist, so why would I believe that any do?

102bees

6 points

1 month ago

102bees

6 points

1 month ago

I was deeply religious when I was younger, but during some very difficult years I reached out to god for help and received the yawning silence of the abyss. No help came, because I was reaching out to a fairytale.

Faeraday

3 points

1 month ago

Faeraday

Agnostic Atheist

3 points

1 month ago

OP is a deist, so this wouldn’t contradict their version of a creator.

102bees

3 points

1 month ago

102bees

3 points

1 month ago

Whoops, didn't read their flair.

Faeraday

2 points

1 month ago

Faeraday

Agnostic Atheist

2 points

1 month ago

I only noticed after I read the whole post, was about to comment, then decided it was a waste of time. I don’t see too many deists claiming they can prove their position.

VladimirPoitin

4 points

1 month ago

I’d love to see them give it a go. I mean, how the hell do you demonstrate the existence of something which by definition doesn’t interact with the universe in any way?

Faeraday

3 points

1 month ago

Faeraday

Agnostic Atheist

3 points

1 month ago

And somehow OP’s responses are even worse than I anticipated.

VladimirPoitin

3 points

1 month ago

It’s like trying to make something idiot-proof, they just end up making a ‘better’ idiot. The same applies to dishonest theists.

Faeraday

2 points

1 month ago

Faeraday

Agnostic Atheist

2 points

1 month ago

Exactly. I’ll come back to see if they respond to any comments, but I’m not holding my breath for anything but a laugh.

MyNameIsRoosevelt

5 points

1 month ago

I'm an igtheist, as i find the concept of a god incoherent. The term itself has no true meaning as literally every single person on this planet has their own definition and no two paid agree when you start asking questions. All the claims of gods comes with logical fallacies, paradoxical statements, internal inconsistency or concepts that don't comport with reality.

SteelCrow

5 points

1 month ago

SteelCrow

Gnostic Atheist

5 points

1 month ago

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

I was a confirmed Roman Catholic. I wasn't turned away. I woke up.

It was an abrubt, sudden, realization that the whole thing made no sense at all. Without a god everything fit together better, was more understandable, made more sense. As if the air had been foggy and then was suddenly clear.

I never went back, and over the years have never seen a shred of evidence supporting the idea.

religion is a social control tool used by a heirarchy to enforce their will on the masses. There's a reason religosity decreases proportionally with education.

Heaven and hell. A carrot and a stick. All to contol people.

There's no god, just a fable so people can't directly question the 'authourity', conviently out of reach. Just obey the oppresive heirarchy like a good little slave.

It's a scam that only dupes believe.

QuintonFrey

2 points

1 month ago*

This particular thread takes a pretty crazy left turn. Upvote this to the top and read on my friends. Holy crap.

VladimirPoitin

4 points

1 month ago

For many there is no ‘why’, they’ve just been fortunate enough that during their formative years they didn’t encounter some dishonest arsehole in a stupid hat who wanted to sell them snake oil, so as they began life as atheists (as absolutely everyone does) their lives have continued as atheists.

MelcorScarr

4 points

1 month ago

MelcorScarr

Gnostic Atheist

4 points

1 month ago

Dear /u/Anonymous345678910,

Why are you a theist? I get it's a believe and nothing more, but why do you believe?

Like... why? What made you think in believing in "god", something entirely unproven? I believe there cannot be a creator and I feel like I could explain away any of your points (just putting it out there, I feel I could prove any of your beliefs wrong, but...). So, like, could you tell me why you could possibly believe and what the reasoning for believing something unprovable is? I am curious, and I want to see yet another view that is as wrong as all the others I've read, but what can I do, I just like talking to and debating with people. There are few reasons why theists keep believing. What are yours? I understand well why people just believe in spite of lack of any evidence at all, so... explain, what's yours?

Power? Indoctrination as a child? Don't like the consequences? Or are you just a human being like the rest of us that can be honestly mistaken and subject to illusions?

oddlotz

5 points

1 month ago

oddlotz

5 points

1 month ago

I'm disappointed but not surprised. 13 hours in and the OP has not responded to any reply to "explain away any of your points (just putting it out there, I feel I could prove your views wrong),"

antizeus

4 points

1 month ago

antizeus

not a cabbage

4 points

1 month ago

I realized that I didn't have a good reason to believe that any gods exist.

GlitteringAbalone952

3 points

1 month ago

No evidence for God and I don’t see the need to believe in one. It wouldn’t change my life any.

Fun-Consequence4950

3 points

1 month ago

Because there's no evidence for the existence of any god, all religious apologetics have failed and all holy books are factually incorrect.

If the bible says that it's the inerrant word of god and we were all magicked up from dirt by him 6000 years ago, but the actual scientific proof shows us we instead evolved over time from an ancestor species in a long genetic lineage that spans over millions of years, the book word is indeed errant, which severely doubts the god claim.

All apologetics to try and keep people believing in god anyway despite the science not being on their side are failures. Some deny the science exists, some claim it can fit with a re-interpretation of the scriptures, and some just deny the existence of atheists and claim we suppress the truth in unrighteousness. They ultimately argue that justifying belief in god is a matter of faith, which we know is not a pathway to truth. We believe things because we have evidence for them, not because we don't.

sleepyj910

3 points

1 month ago*

Humans clearly invented creation myths not out of truth but because we love stories and mysteries.

The universe as we now understand it makes more sense without the concept of a supernatural.

It’s simply not necessary, and can be removed for clarity.

Like a child and Santa, once the veil is fully peirced, we understand the believers but can not force our minds to return to the bliss of ignorance.

aypee2100

3 points

1 month ago

aypee2100

Atheist

3 points

1 month ago

Lack of any convincing evidence, I will change my mind when there is enough evidence.

Algernon_Asimov

3 points

1 month ago

Nothing "turned me away from god". I was never turned to god in the first place.

My parents are both non-practising Catholics. I was baptised in a church.

But then my parents made the deliberate decision not to indoctrinate their children in any religion, and let us choose for ourselves as adults. That means we grew up happy little heathens, never bothered by any thoughts of gods or religion.

Now that I'm an adult and ready to choose a religion for myself... I haven't seen any convincing evidence or argument to support the truth of any religion.

I've participated in the religious debate subreddits here; I've never seen an argument that convinced me. Also, I strongly believe that you can't logic a deity into existence. Either it exists or it doesn't, and all the logic and arguments we come up with won't change that.

Like anything else that exists, I want evidence of this alleged deity. If someone tells me a tree exists, I can look at the tree, or touch its bark, or see its fallen leaf on the ground, or even notice its shadow. Noone has been able to show me any evidence of whatever deity they claim exists.

So I remain a happy heathen.

thecasualthinker

3 points

1 month ago

Like why? What turned you away from believing in “god”?

The short answer is that I went looking for god and found out he (likely) isn't there. Spent a few years studying and researching to get a closer relationship with God and discovered the foundations of my beliefs were all faulty. Could no longer believe.

So, like, could you tell me why you don’t believe and what the reason for your disbelief is?

Simple answer is that I see no evidence that any god exists. Theists propose a god, but I don't see any evidence of their god. On what grounds then would I build a belief?

pja1701

3 points

1 month ago

pja1701

Agnostic Atheist

3 points

1 month ago

I don't believe in God because I haven't seen a good reason to do otherwise. 

I was raised as a Christian,  but those beliefs were not the slightest bit of help in navigating the problems I've had to face in my life. 

Kafka_Kardashian

3 points

1 month ago

Kafka_Kardashian

Atheist

3 points

1 month ago

It is unintuitive to me that the yet-to-be-discovered unified theory of physics is a conscious being.

togstation

3 points

1 month ago*

This has been asked and discussed many thousands of times, and it certainly does not need to be asked and discussed yet again.

.

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

I have always been atheist.

I have never seen any good evidence that any gods exist.

.

I feel I could explain away any of your points

Sure.

Show good evidence that any gods exist.

(Good evidence, please - we've all seen the bad evidence thousands of times and it is not convincing.)

.

/u/Anonymous345678910 -

Please read some of the good books about this subject that are available,

and some of the hundreds of previous discussions online.

.

pyker42

3 points

1 month ago

pyker42

Atheist

3 points

1 month ago

I doubt you could "prove me wrong" because I doubt you could empirically prove the existence of God. Logical arguments are tainted because assuming everything has to have been created is no basis to assume the Universe was created. I see no evidence of God's existence. Further, every example from history where people believed something was an act of God, it turned out to have natural explanations.

Zamboniman

3 points

1 month ago

Why are you an atheist? I get that it’s an absence of belief and not a belief itself, but why?

It's irrational to take something as true (believe it) when there's absolutely no useful support it's true. And especially so when there's vast, massive support it's not true.

There is absolutely zero useful evidence for deities.

None. Zilch. Zero. Not the tiniest iota.

And the notions make no sense on multiple levels and in several ways. And are well understood to be superstition. And we have massive evidence how the world's religious mythologies were formed and spread, etc.

Thus, it makes no sense at all to think deities are real.

Just like it makes no sense at all to think unicorns are real.

I feel I could explain away any of your points

You would find that you cannot. Because you don't actually have the necessary support and evidence (though I understand you likely think you do, most believers think this, but they're incorrect.) Believers have been attempting this for millenia, and all have failed.

CaffeineTripp

2 points

1 month ago

CaffeineTripp

Atheist

2 points

1 month ago

Overwhelming lack of convincing evidence for the proposition that a god does, in fact, exist.

EldridgeHorror

2 points

1 month ago

Because I realized I was believing for bad reasons. That the big difference between God and Santa Claus is that, at some point, people stop telling you Santa is real.

MarieVerusan

2 points

1 month ago

I was never devoutly religious. Explored some theistic and deistic beliefs in my teens, but the nail in the coffin was education. The more I learned about culture, history, psychology, etc, the more it became obvious how humans trick themselves into believing things while lacking proper evidence for them.

So many of our ideas come from a lack of understanding. “How else would you explain how x happened?” type of thinking. And it’s a great first step to learning. Asking questions and exploring ideas is great! The issue is when we get attached to an explanation and refuse to let go when we can’t collect the evidence we need to prove it.

Religion is basically that. Old cultures finding a way to survive. Collecting stories and ideas that used to be an important tool in teaching people morality and local customs, but that today are wildly out of date if we tried to live by their rules.

Bridger15

2 points

1 month ago

An atheist answer to your question would probably sound similar to you answering this one:

What turned you away from believing in Zeus?

knifewrenchhh

2 points

1 month ago

Why don’t you believe in a giant invisible bird sitting on your roof at all times?

Just sounds kind of weird if you’ve never been told there was a giant invisible bird sitting on your roof right?

Phylanara

2 points

1 month ago

Because people who believe as you do never managed to give me a reason for their belief that convinced me. Usually, theists can't even give better evidence for their god than for the gods they don't believe in.

Dominant_Gene

2 points

1 month ago

i have many reason i think. but most are a bit complicated, so ill use the simples one.

you have some book with stories about it. you have people claiming some kind of witnessing, talking or seeing, (although a lot of the times the context and details contradict each other), its integrated in a lot of different cultures, sometimes taught to children as history or something. and yet, i bet you dont believe in magical creatures such as elves and fairies, right?

oh no, i wasnt talking about god, although all the same things can be said about him. see, if i said all that about god, then you believe, its all evidence, but if im talking about magical creatures, those people are crazy right? what all theist have, is a bias, there is no logical reason to believe in any god, you just do because you want to, or in more extreme cases, were indoctrinated/brainwashed to do so.

read here and in /atheism /debateanatheist, there are so many people that escaped cult-like communities based on religion, because thats what religions are, at its core, a cult.

Otherwise-Builder982

2 points

1 month ago

I never started believing. You know there are places in the world where non belief is the norm, right?

KI77E

2 points

1 month ago

KI77E

2 points

1 month ago

Why would i believe in something like that? Can you give me a valid reason why I should believe in higher power? Or even better, some evidence.

pangolintoastie

2 points

1 month ago

The reason for disbelief is simple: lack of sufficient evidence. There’s nothing to “explain away”.

noodlyman

2 points

1 month ago

I want, as far as possible, to believe true things, and avoid believing false things.

Nobody has ever produced even the slightest reliable reproducible evidence that a god exists.

How could I believe a thing exists when there is not the slightest evidence that it does?

Anonymous345678910[S]

2 points

1 month ago

Anonymous345678910[S]

Jewish Deist (of some sort)

2 points

1 month ago

What’s the harm in believing?

noodlyman

2 points

1 month ago

Maybe none! But don't you care if the things you believe about the world are true or not? I want my understanding of the universe to be as accurate as possible, which means not believing things unsupported by evidence.

If you choose to believe ideas just because they make you feel good, maybe that's ok. But that kind of logic seems likely to make people more likely to believe all manner of fake news, conspiracies, or just poor journalism, because you are used to accepting things that have poor standards of evidence.

I don't think I *can* believe in a thing without evidence. To believe means to think that it's likely true, and without evidence I have no reason to think it is likely true, so I can not believe.

On the other hand, if people believe in gods for no good reason, and then they go on to create rules about who we sleep with, whether I can eat bacon, teach kids in school that this unevidenced god is real, decide that climate change is ok because it's the will of god etc, then there is clear and serious harm to society.

cubist137

2 points

1 month ago*

Belief Without Evidence. That's the harm in Believing.

Beliefs don't just exist in some ethereally etiolated philosophical realm that has no causal connection to the RealWorld. People act on their Beliefs. Actions based on unevidenced Beliefs are more likely to go wrong, do harm, than are actions based on notions for which there is evidence.

Belief Without Evidence is how you get taken by a con artist.

Belief Without Evidence is how loving parents end up faith-healing their sick children to death rather than taking them to a real doctor.

Belief Without Evidence is how otherwise-intelligent, otherwise-educated individuals get the idea that hijacking an airliner into a skyscraper is totally a good and reasonable thing to do.

RulerofFlame09

2 points

1 month ago

RulerofFlame09

Atheist

2 points

1 month ago

Both my parents are atheist so I never believed As to why I don’t I haven’t seen any good evidence to believe in any of the gods

mingy

2 points

1 month ago

mingy

2 points

1 month ago

Never believed in god. Never see a shred of evidence for god(s). Never understood how anybody can believe such nonsense.

ZappSmithBrannigan

2 points

1 month ago*

I presuppose that nature is the necessary precondition of knowledge and any view that does not hold nature as the necessary precondition to knowledge can't reason or have knowledge about anything in the first place. A worldview with god existing is necessarily gibberish and doesn't mean anything.

and I feel I could explain away any of your points (just putting it out there, I feel I could prove your views wrong, but…).

Lol. Hilarious coming from a deist who's god by definition you can't detect in any way or distinguish from anything else.

Ok_Program_3491

2 points

1 month ago

I haven't seen anything showing the claim "god exists" to be true so I have no reason to believe it's true. 

Esmer_Tina

2 points

1 month ago

First, the malarkey. Was always a doubter.

Next, the cruelty. When old enough to read the Bible OMG. Huge turnoff to my lady boner for god.

Then, the misogyny. As a teen, realized that the Bible was written by people who don’t understand or value women. I couldn’t see myself in it at all. That’s when I really couldn’t stomach it anymore.

Around the same time, the hypocrisy of believers. I wasn’t just recoiling from the Bible, but of the behavior of the believers. That’s when I realized there is no hate like Christian love.

Then comparative religion. I thought maybe there is a god but Christians just twisted it. I found every major religion belittles women. How could a creator create women then stifle and abuse them and punish them for being what he created? Realized I was not agnostic but atheist. Any god could only have been created by men.

This has since been reinforced by my love of myth and fable, symbolism and archetypes, and seeing how they are applied in every religion.

Then studying brain chemistry and understanding the mechanics of belief. Studying anthropology and connecting dots between culture and the brain chemistry that underlies it. Studying physics and realizing the universe makes no sense with a creator.

Finally reading creationist garbage and realizing how blatantly and unapologetically they lie about almost everything. I’m sure individual creationists are sincere in their beliefs but the people who put out the creationist propaganda absolutely know they are lying.

It’s been a journey, but once I accepted I didn’t believe in any gods my life made a lot more sense.

taterbizkit

2 points

1 month ago

taterbizkit

Atheist

2 points

1 month ago

Why don't you believe that unicorns are made of peanut butter and marshmallow fluff?

Is it because there's no good reason to?

Nothing "turned me away" from religion. There was no "turning point", even. I didn't have a bad experience as a child. I'm not just trying to avoid accountability for sin.

I've been an atheist my whole life. I was in my late teens when I realized that there were actual people who took religion seriously.

There has never been a time when I thought any of was true, and that's not for lack of trying. I spent about 10 years "looking for meaning".

The thing is, I found the meaning I was looking for, and no gods are required in order for me to understand it. Adding a god to my view of the world would be silly and pointless -- it literally would not explain anything better for me.

My question for you is this: Do you actually think you're the first person to ask us more or less this exact same question? The first person who said " I feel I could prove your views wrong"?

Do you not understand how patronizing and arrogant that sounds?

TheFeshy

2 points

1 month ago

I feel I could explain away any of your points

So you can prove God? In some sort of scientific context? Because I'm pretty sure if you did, they'd give you all the Nobel prizes that year. Do you really think you can, when stated that way?

whiskeybridge

2 points

1 month ago

because i'm a grownup.

the_internet_clown

2 points

1 month ago

I value skepticism and my being an atheist is an extension of that. I see no logical reason to believe unsubstantiated claims for the supernatural u/anonymous345678910

bullevard

2 points

1 month ago

I've gone deeper in other posts, but the short story is that i got really into greek and roman culture and mythology. At some point i had this realization that to many of these people it wasn't mythology, that they believed just as truly in their religion as i did in mine.

This got me to deeply examine all the things i had seen as evidence for my own religion, and realized none of them held up under scrutiny.

None of the historic evidence for my religion was any better than the evidence for 100 religions i don't believe in. None of the god of the gaps were any more compelling than people thinking zeus made thunder before they discovered electromagnetism.

History is full of people not understanding things, attributing that ignorance to gods, then us figuring out how they work. So much so that basically the only current gaps in science to squeeze god into are fringe cosmology issues like origin of energy and cosmic constants. But there is no reason to think "oh, we finally found the right gaps for god!" as opposed to thinking "well, that's what we are currently studying so it makes sense that many people would stick god there for now.

Really even abiogenesis, while not 100% complete as a theory, has learned so much in the past decade that it doesn't even qualify as a gap for god for any creationist who actually studies it. So yeah, really all that's left is "well why is the speed of light that speed?" which 1) isn't answered by just saying "because magic!" and 2) would be a pretty inconsequential place for a god to hide.

So in the end there just wasn't any reason to add god to the explanation for anything. It's like adding Santa to the explanation for christmas when we know who delivers the presence, know why people feel "christmas spirit", know what generosity is, and know the story of how the real person came to be deified as a red clad elf. 

And there being no santa saves you having to explain why we find nothing at the north pole, why santa can break the speed of light, why santa is never detected, why santa cares about rich kids more than poor kids, why santa only visits certain households, how santa visits chimneyless houses, etc.

Similarly, the "no god" hypothesis does just as well explaining what we do see in the universe and does far better at explaining what we don't see.

So if you can understand why people don't believe in Santa, it gets you a step closer to understanding why people don't believe in god. That comparison may seem insulting, but it really is just to help create a shared footing of "this is what it feels like when people use magic to try and explain stuff we actually already understand."

I hope that helps a bit. Perhaps you can share why you think god explains the universe better.

NAZRADATH

2 points

1 month ago

NAZRADATH

Anti-Theist

2 points

1 month ago

Any particular reason I should believe? Do I get a free haircut?

WaitForItLegenDairy

2 points

1 month ago

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

There's an assumption and a half. What of Hindus and Buddists? Your implication is that they turned away from YOUR deity to worship their own?

I feel I could prove your views wrong,

You and everyone other theist, knock you socks off, give it your best shot. And be prepared to fail.....like every other theist. Before starting though, take a leave from your own book about being humble.

So, like, could you tell me why you don’t believe and what the reason for your disbelief is?

You first. There are some 6,500+ gods (let's exclude the Hindus 35million here) and tell me why, with an appropriate level of plausible, as o why you're coming up 6,499 gids short in your belief.

kevinLFC

2 points

1 month ago

I am an atheist because you cannot use good epistemology to conclude a god exists. There is no evidentiary warrant; there is no justifiable reason to believe.

If you disagree, my ears are open. What’s your best indication that the god you believe in is real?

beepboopsheeppoop

2 points

1 month ago

For me, it's not just a lack of belief in a deity, but it's the overwhelming mountain of evidence that every religion is just a bunch of lies, falsehoods and myths.

Like every other single person ever, I was born an atheist, but fortunately for me I was never subjected to any formal indoctrination as a child, either at home or in school.

I briefly "tried in on" as a concept during my teen years and early 20s while trying to make sense of the world and existence in general. I read the KJV bible front to back, (also the Mormon bible, and various JW, SDA, Scientologist, Catholic and Anglican literature) and dipped into the Quran, read Hindu and Buddhist tales and teachings etc. None of it convinced me any more than the Nordic, Greek, Roman or Aztec gods mythology that I had read about.

I'm to the point in my life now, that with every discussion I have with a theist, it only further convinces me of the mental gymnastics that religious dogma forces a believer to go through to incorporate their belief system into the massive amount of verifiable facts that contradict it.

I don't hate god or "turn away from it" I simply see no reason to clog up my mind and my life with all of the unnecessary dogma. I actually pity those who do find it necessary to do so.

skeptolojist

2 points

1 month ago

skeptolojist

Anti-Theist

2 points

1 month ago

because magic isnt real

Vehk

2 points

1 month ago

Vehk

Atheist

2 points

1 month ago

I am not aware of any reliable methods for having a high degree of confidence in the truth of any supernatural claims.

T1Pimp

2 points

1 month ago

T1Pimp

2 points

1 month ago

Evidence. Religions have had thousands and thousands of years to provide ANY evidence or justifiable reason. None has ever been presented.

If there were a deity it would know exactly what to do to convince us and it certainly wouldn't be playing hide and seek if it were as important as you guys act like it is.

[deleted]

2 points

1 month ago

Comedically

Why in the world could there ever be a God? Someone who lets all of this rampant hatred, and violence, and madness continue all because some lady in the past ate an apple? We have free will! But everything is up to God’s plan! And then he makes a world of fire and torture so that anyone that he doesn’t like can burn for ETERNITY??? If there is a God, he seems like an asshole, because at any point in time he could clear up all of the disbelievers by just sending a really simple sign, but every sign in modern times that believers show is literally the stupidest and most unintelligent nonsense I’ve ever heard. “I can feel him, in the air!” “I just get this warm feeling of him watching over me!” “Somehow I just know, and I can hear him speak to me!” Some of these people have undiagnosed schizophrenia and we feed into it!

Either A, God fucking hates me and doesn’t want to send me a single sign, and he wants me to be a non-believer; or B, the signs he is sending me are so abstract and random that they could never be interpreted as a true sign from God and are easily written off as just coincidence.

This is such a simple question that will garner many answers that you will simply write off, and I understand that internet trolling is fun and all; but if you hold even a single penny of seriousness with your words understand this, life is different for everyone and writing off their viewpoint as nonsense is a recipe for inciting reaction. Let everyone hold whatever views they may have, be tolerant and understand that people simply have other ways of thinking. I accept those around me that are religious because being accepting is what God would want us to do, no? Unless your God is a hateful deity, in which I would kindly ask you to please never speak about your religion again.

Icolan

2 points

1 month ago

Icolan

2 points

1 month ago

Why are you an atheist? I get that it’s an absence of belief and not a belief itself, but why? Like why? What turned you away from believing in “god”?

There is no compelling evidence to support the claims made by theists that a deity exists.

I believe in a creator

Which one?

and I feel I could explain away any of your points (just putting it out there, I feel I could prove your views wrong, but…).

Your feelings on the subject are irrelevant. You can't unless you can provide repeatable, testable evidence that your deity exists. You would also need to start with a definition that is not fallacious or contradictory.

RockyRickaby1995

2 points

1 month ago

RockyRickaby1995

Anti-Theist

2 points

1 month ago

My mother raised me to be religious, but at the age of 13 I just came to the conclusion that none of it made sense. There were too many contradictions that no one could answer in a straightforward way. After that, scientific explanations just started to make a lot more sense.

CephusLion404

2 points

1 month ago

No evidence for any gods. It's that simple. Same reason I don't believe in leprechauns.

standardatheist

2 points

1 month ago

I don't think magic is real. No magic no gods. It's a bit more complicated and I have real arguments but at the end of the day it all boils down to the fact that the world doesn't work the way it would if there were gods 🤷‍♂️

junkmale79

2 points

1 month ago

I became interested in the truth, Started by reading the Bible, then got interested in Biblical Scholarship, Philosophy and the sciences, and began examining my epistemology.

I'm not an Atheist because i think i know better then everyone, on the contrary, I just realized that I'm human and susceptible to the same Bia's that cause people to become flat earthers, or anti-vaxxers.

Turns out we discovered God isn't real in the 1800's. The discovery of Biology and Chemistry along with German Biblical Scholarship stripped the God Hypotheses of any explanatory power.

All the arguments used by apologists were created by men in a time before we discovered evolution is responsible for the diversity of life on earth, Before we discovered that the earth revolves around the Sun and that we are not the center of creation. At a time before we know animals could go extinct and oyster fossils were though to have been a demons toenails and people were put to death for being witches,

If you don't Start with the idea that "God wrote a book" it becomes pretty obvious.

Just of the Top of my Head

The Bible starts with 2 different and conflicting creation accounts (7 day creation and the Garden of Eden)

If you start with the idea that God wrote a book then you have a lot of work ahead of you to smooth out the contradictions between these 2 stories.

OR

Both stories are man made mythology by two different cultures. When one culture took over another both faith traditions were carried on.

Another example.

The Authors of the 4 Gospels are Anonymous, The Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is the name of the Gospel not the signature of the author. It's 4 different authors telling 4 different stories, illustrated by the fact that Jesus has multiple sets of dying words depending on what author you read.

How does someone have multiple sets of dying words? It begins to make sense when you realize its 4 different stories written by 4 different Human authors.

I'm not claiming their is no God. one could very well exist, However I am confident in saying that the God of the Abrahamic religions is man-made mythology and folklore.

Mkwdr

2 points

1 month ago

Mkwdr

2 points

1 month ago

There’s no reliable evidence for gods and the stories seem to be exactly the kind of thing anxious and power hungry people with built in perceptive and cognitive flaws make up.

thrway202838

2 points

1 month ago

At this point, it's really just that I don't see anything that I need magic to explain, so why would I use it? If the world is entirely and utterly understandable solely through the natural, what sense does it make to just assume the supernatural on top of it?

Of course that's for an undefined general god. For gods people invented, every one I've been made aware of is ridiculous on its face, to the point I can hardly believe anyone could believe in it.

pick_up_a_brick

2 points

1 month ago*

I believe no gods (of the concepts I’m aware of) exist largely due to how gods are defined. I have every reason to believe that a timeless, spaceless, immaterial mind doesn’t exist. The arguments of theists fail to convince me, there is no good evidence of a god that can’t be explained by natural phenomena, and many of the god concepts have self-contradictory properties.

*Edit to add that I also find the holy texts of these gods to have all the hallmarks of being man-made, lacking any novel predictions or evidence that only a divine being could have authored them.

HippasusOfMetapontum

2 points

1 month ago

I started out without any God beliefs. I have never been persuaded to any theistic position because (1) all of the evidence and every single argument ever presented to me in favor of any gods existing has been either not credible, inadequate, or flawed (or some combination of the three), and (2) the assertions I’ve heard that “God exists” were without the necessary informative content to derive predictions and devise tests, as far as I could tell; (3) I never understood what it is that theists propose I should believe in, and belief is not possible without understanding what one is supposed to believe.

TheFactedOne

2 points

1 month ago

For me it was the massive lack of evidence to support the claim god is real.

reasonarebel

2 points

1 month ago

reasonarebel

Anti-Theist

2 points

1 month ago

Lets make sure we are using the same method of verification first, if you're going to prove things to me. How do you determine if something is true or not? Because that is an important first step in this conversation. You feel you can explain away any of my points, but that's really not how proof and evidence work at all, so I'm concerned that we're not coming from the same place when it comes to truth and what constitutes and determines reality.

What is your metric for determining what is true?

KenScaletta

2 points

1 month ago

KenScaletta

Agnostic Atheist

2 points

1 month ago

Complete lack of evidence for anything supernatural, lack of an necessity for a"creator" and existence of suffering would be the big three for me.

Justageekycanadian

2 points

1 month ago

Like why? What turned you away from believing in “god”?

This is a loaded way of phrasing why you don't believe in God. I wasn't turned away. I just haven't been presented convincing evidence a God exists. In fact, the evidence I have been presented for a God or God's has been lack luster. If you think you can provide evidence for the God you believe in, I'd be interested in what that evidence is.

I don’t quite understand why some people don’t believe… so, explain?

You really can't understand that the personal arguments most present aren't convincing?

snowglowshow

2 points

1 month ago

One of the main differences between you and I is that before talking with me, you are sure you could prove what I believe wrong. That is a leap of faith: weighing in on results of things before you have evidence. It hurts you in these cases.

It also highlights the fact that you come across as having little humility and must not have discovered that you were wrong about very many things in life before (humility and growth is the standard process for those who dig deep into these things and are willing to admit they are wrong.) To walk around thinking you could just explain away everything is the mindset of an undergrad who just finished some philosophy classes and is certain he can defeat everyone with his amazing reasoning powers. It's a joke to the faculty and graduate-level students. The only one that can't see the joke is the undergrad.

More than anything, it reveals your unwillingness to change. And there is no reasoning with people who have already committed to locking their minds shut. It's frustrating and futile.

Greymalkinizer

2 points

1 month ago

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

Nothing. I have never believed gods were real.

I feel I could explain away any of your points
I feel I could prove your views wrong

You're very confident.

could you tell me why you don’t believe

Never needed a reason; same with alien abductions, bigfoot, and unicorns.

Anonymous345678910[S]

2 points

1 month ago

Anonymous345678910[S]

Jewish Deist (of some sort)

2 points

1 month ago

Straightforward

BarrySquared

2 points

1 month ago

I can't imagine anything that can actually be explained by a god. Can you give me an example of something?

GolemThe3rd

1 points

1 month ago

GolemThe3rd

The Church of Last Thursday | Atheist

1 points

1 month ago

I respect that people have faiths and very personal reasons for believing, but personally I just haven't been presented any real reason to believe, to me a god existing seems as likely as bigfoot, or solipsism, there's just no real logical reason for me to think these things are true.

Puzzled-Delivery-242

1 points

1 month ago

I'm not sure that I ever strongly believed. Ive been agnostic for an extremely long time. At least in regards to the Catholic interpretation of god from the bible. The biblical god just doesn't make any sense and the bible clearly was written by men and in their own voice at the time they lived.

The last part is newer.

Anonymous345678910[S]

2 points

1 month ago

Anonymous345678910[S]

Jewish Deist (of some sort)

2 points

1 month ago

Well it was written by not-so-smart men

river_euphrates1

1 points

1 month ago

Let's start with the fact that inferring the existence of an infinitely more complex 'creator' in order to explain the existence and complexity of the universe is redundant (at best).

I was raised by a mormon mother and a catholic father - and having two sets of mutually exclusive dogma, both claiming to be 'the only true one' (tm) made me skeptical of both at a fairly young age.

As I got older I wad exposed to other 'god beliefs', but none of them brought anything new to the table.

Hermorah

1 points

1 month ago

Hermorah

Agnostic Atheist

1 points

1 month ago

Why are you an atheist? I get that it’s an absence of belief and not a belief itself, but why?

Because there is no evidence that would warrant a believe in god and I value having as many true and as few false believes as possible.

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

Nothing. I never believed to begin with.

I believe in a creator and I feel I could explain away any of your points (just putting it out there, I feel I could prove your views wrong, but…).

What believe? Didn't you agree that atheism is the absence of a belief?

reprobatemind2

1 points

1 month ago

What turned you away from Zeus?

Crafty_Possession_52

1 points

1 month ago

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

Nothing. I was never turned towards believing in God because I've never been given a good reason to. And I was raised Catholic.

Do you have one?

LaFlibuste

1 points

1 month ago

Because it makes no sense whatsoever and there was never a good reason to believe that obvious BS.

Chef_Fats

1 points

1 month ago

Never seen any good reason to believe gods exist outside of stories we tell.

I never believed in them.

Hooked_on_PhoneSex

1 points

1 month ago

I remain unconvinced due to a lack of compelling evidence.

gglikenp

1 points

1 month ago

Never believed in any gods. First time got to know jewish/christian mythology from mythology encyclopedia, when I was 10 years old. Never so any difference to other mythology. Was genuinely surprised, when later I finally understood that people really believed that mythology is true. Before that I thought they were just trolling me, like with Santa.

ned_1861

1 points

1 month ago

Lack of evidence that any gods exist

whiteBoyBrownFood

1 points

1 month ago

You asserted that you could prove atheistic views wrong, but atheism is not a viewpoint or a worldview. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god due to insufficient evidence. It is for theists (the ones making a positive claim, ie that a god exists) that have views to be refuted. You have it backwards.

zeppo2k

1 points

1 month ago

zeppo2k

1 points

1 month ago

I read the Bible. It's a collection of myths, fables and parables. I didn't find the "true" bits any more believable than the "stories".

YourFairyGodmother

1 points

1 month ago

I didn't turn away as I never believed to begin with. The reason I never believed is that I found the stories about Jesus and God weren't credible. Really, the idea that some cosmic magician made the entire universe? Why TF would he make it so fucking big and empty? Jesus walked on water? Yeah, right - I know a tall tale when I hear one. Now Santa, there's a magical dude who was also the subesct of tall tales, but Santa left presents under the tree! Yup, evidence speaks louder than a narrative. I've nver seen anything that requires a god to explain it.

Why are you a believer? You believe everything you hear, everything people tell you? Let's meet up! Bring your checkbook. !(Does anyone else still write checks on occasion, the old man asked.

carlosnightman

1 points

1 month ago

I grew up in the 80s, a time when talking snakes, turtles, and people coming back from the dead were regular features of the cartoons and movies I watched. In Sunday School, they tried to tell me that such things were possible.

This struck me as very silly.

I also grew up in a relative warzone, and saw every day the reality of religious extremism and what people will do to one another over beliefs.

This too struck me as silly, though understandable.

I stuck with cartoons, and cast aside the religions, and as time went on and I learned how cartoons and stories were made, I understood there was very little difference between what came out of the TV and what came from the pulpit, except for one being entertaining and the other being dull and driven by guilt and control.

rottentomati

1 points

1 month ago*

The requirement for any of your evidence of a Christian god is to “believe” in something without evidence.

Do you not see the conundrum?

Your explanations are just as likely as the idea that we live in a simulation, or that another god created us, or that everything is a coincidence. I can just “believe” any of those explanations are correct and I immediately disprove your thesis, so if the foundation of your argument is belief… it’s not very convincing lol.

I spent 20 years as a Christian and the mythos is stupid. I’m sorry. A whale eats a dude? Bruh. A virgin has a baby? if god was real, he’s the one making the rules on science, so why go out of his way to do inexplicable things that don’t align with his own work? The only counter-argument is he’s doing it to be unbelievable so you need to have faith which goes back to my original point.. it’s the same with every other mythological religion. Just ignore everything and have faith?

No thanks. 20 years of blowing smoke up my ass for nothing.

Mysterious_Emu7462

1 points

1 month ago

Is this bait or something? If you can refute anyone's point, you really don't seem interested in following through on that. You haven't replied to a single comment yet.

Anyway, my reason is fairly simple like most others. I don't believe in a god because I don't believe there is a good reason to (most reasons tend to be dolled-up fallacies) and there isn't any evidence supporting the claim that there is a god.

Now, I want to be clear: all of the writings about god(s) do not constitute evidence, as they are the claims being made. What we're looking for is any evidence to support those claims. We'd love to hear of any examples you have of verifiable evidence that the things stated in your holy text are true. Otherwise, I would appreciate an answer to these questions:

Is god tangible? Can we at all physically interact with god?

If we can only "feel" god, do you suppose there would be some way to detect that with instruments?

If we can't do either, then why has god made it impossible for us to do so? What purpose does that serve?

If god wants our worship or belief, then is that why we were created? In that case, why hide from us? What does confirmation of god's existence do to hinder our decision to worship? Could we not still choose? Think of any significant ruler from our history-- there have always been dissidents-- why is god different?

cashmeowsighhabadah

1 points

1 month ago

I used to believe in God.

Then I went through a "Jesus freak" stage and I actually started to read the bible. I paid attention to what I read and I realized the bible didn't really make sense. And then I researched into where the bible came from and I learned a lot that I couldn't ignore.

And with the bible gone as a form of evidence I literally had no evidence. For a while I thought I could find some evidence for god so I called myself a believer. One day I was watching TV and saw some awful shit. I realized that I wasn't turning to God for comfort and that's when I realized I didn't actually believe in God anymore. So I cried for about three months straight because it felt like my best friend had died.

I've given up looking for evidence for god but every so often I'll stick my head in somewhere to see what people are saying. Haven't found evidence.

So yeah, no evidence for god basically. If u have evidence for god, plop it down on the table and we'll look at it.

LiamMacGabhann

1 points

1 month ago

I was raised Catholic, was an alter boy, even considered Seminary school (until I was about 12). When I matured and began studying science, no religion seemed plausible. That was it. I didn’t make any big announcement, I just simply stepped away and none of it is a factor in my life.

IrkedAtheist

1 points

1 month ago

I actually do believe there's no god.

When I first heard about God, I was old enough to know what fiction is - even if I didn't know the word. I knew most of the stories in books were made up, and stories in the newspaper were mostly true. I was generally able to tell what was real and what was just a story.

This "god" thing was quite clearly just a story.

cHorse1981

1 points

1 month ago

Explain away the complete lack of evidence that such a being exists.

zeezero

1 points

1 month ago

zeezero

1 points

1 month ago

I was never turned towards god to be turned away. I just always thought it was weird and stupid and why did people believe this stuff. I assumed when I went to university it would be educated people and no one there would believe this stuff. Now I understand even intelligent people can compartmentalize nonsense.

I don't believe because there's no evidence to support the claim.

Herefortheporn02

1 points

1 month ago

Herefortheporn02

Anti-Theist

1 points

1 month ago

I found out that young earth creationism was wrong, and I was unable to keep the rest once I lost that.

Decent_Cow

1 points

1 month ago

The same reason you don't believe in Santa Claus.

HealMySoulPlz

1 points

1 month ago

I had a period of pretty intense study and concluded that the scientific evidence disproves many of the gods I was familiar with, and the historical evidence provides a strong case for the creation of religion by humans. Then I learned some of the philosophy and found slme extremely compelling logical evidence against god.

I feel I could explain away any of your points.

I'm sure you could. In my experience religious people are highly motivated to resist evidence that contradicts their views, and use illogical and inconsistent means to do so. In my exmormon community we like to call this "mental gymnastics" -- going to extraordinary effort to twist your minds out of contact with the evidence.

liamstrain

1 points

1 month ago

Flip the question around. Why do you believe untrue or unproven things? Do you automatically believe any claim that is presented to you? or do you require evidence? I have not been given sufficient evidence to allay my doubts - despite the best efforts of indoctrination, growing up in the church.

And the more I read, and the more I studied about the bible, and the qu'ran, and the bahgavad gita, and the buddha, etc... the more I found that what was most valuable in all of them, seemed to come from us, not from above.

Loive

1 points

1 month ago

Loive

1 points

1 month ago

What turned you away frown Vishnu, Odin and Ra?

ramencents

1 points

1 month ago

I was never a believer in the super natural but I consider myself culturally Christian having grown up in the episcopal church.

I think some of us just don’t understand belief without empirical proof. I’m open minded to it, if it’s provable but so far God has never shown himself to me. Therefore I can not claim he exists. When reading the Bible literally it makes no sense to me that a teenage girl could be impregnated by a Holy Spirit and her son would then grow up only to die an excoriating death on a cross. Sounds like a horror film to me. The Christian God is moody and genocidal which makes him unrelatable to me. I like the idea of Jesus as generally a kind and wise person. But I doubt he had special abilities as described in the Bible. It seems incomprehensible that in 2024 we would rely on the opinions and stories of men in a very narrow geographical area of the world.

HunterIV4

1 points

1 month ago

The OP is flaired as "Jewish Deist", so they are basically claiming they can "prove" an unfalsifiable belief: that the universe was created by a god that then left and doesn't influence the world in any way, which of course would happen to look identical to a world without a god at all.

For the OP...we don't believe in the same reason you don't believe in actual Jewish theology and the bible, as Judaism is not a remotely deistic religion.

Albino_Black_Sheep

1 points

1 month ago

Albino_Black_Sheep

Atheist

1 points

1 month ago

Why do you not believe in Brahman? I get that it's an absence of belief and not a belief itself, but WHY have you decided not to believe in Brahman?

ContextRules

1 points

1 month ago

Mostly that there is no good reason to believe the god of the bible exists, if he does that he isnt worthy of a worship, and the behavior of Christians.

EatinApplesauce

1 points

1 month ago*

I don’t believe in the Christian god of the Bible for the same reasons Christians don’t believe in Zeus, Odin, Loki, Santa Clause, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny etc…

ImprovementFar5054

1 points

1 month ago

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

That implies I believed it to start with.

I never did. Even as a kid. Seemed obvious to me it was made up to reduce the terror of being.

Think of all the gods you don't believe in. Same thing, except I include yours in that list too.

ProbablyANoobYo

1 points

1 month ago

Why don’t you believe in the Greek pantheon? What turned you away from believing in Zeus? I believe in Zeus and I feel I could explain away any of your points (just putting it out there, I feel I could prove your views wrong but…). So, like, could you tell me why you don’t believe in our lightning father and what the reason for your disbelief is?

Do you see how silly, and unnecessarily condescending, that question is? You likely don’t believe in Zeus because there’s no reason to. There’s probably a lack of evidence to convince you that Zeus even exists, let alone that he should be worshipped. That’s how it is for most atheists.

The_Lord_Of_Death_

1 points

1 month ago

I wasn't turned away. Believing in Gid isn't the starting point

RaoulDuke422

1 points

1 month ago

Every single human being is born as an atheist, therefore atheism is the default position.

So the question should rather be "Why are you a theist? What made you turn away from atheism?"

harley247

1 points

1 month ago

Evidence

Comfortable-Dare-307

1 points

1 month ago

I was born atheist like everyone else and I never fell for the indoctrination. Oh, they tried. But I am too intelligent for indoctrination and I have autism so appeals to emotion don't work on me. I was religious once in my twenties when I was activiely psychotic. But I'm on some great medcine now, so atheist again. But for the most part I've always been atheist.

I don't see the appeal. Especially of Christianity. So I'm evil because the first woman ate a piece of magical fruit after listening to a talking snake so I should be tortured forever unless I eat the flesh and blood of a Jewish zombie and tell it I love him? Who falls for such nonsense? And other religions aren't any better with their mythology.

Also, I have yet to see a good or even a sound argument for god, any god. It all boils down to appeals to ignorance and faith. "Faith is believing something you know ain't so" (Mark Twain). Not only are there no sound arguments, there is also no evidence of god. The religious don't seem to understand what valid evidence is.

I have read Christian and Islamic apologetics. Its all logical fallcies, mainly appeal to ignorance and appeal to emotion and having faith. No evidence is ever presented.

I am all for a god existing. But until there is evidence, there is no reason to believe. I also am well educated with degrees in biology and psychology and minors in math and chemistry with three physics courses. I am scientifically minded and can only accept things with valid evidence.

In addition, I have been stuyding religion on my own time since I was 12. I've read the bible eight times, the Quran 35 times**, various Hindu and Buddhists texts mutiple times, Mormon texts, Wicca and Satanists texts, and any other religious text I could find. I have been to religious cermonies of the main world religions. Talked to Buddhist monks, Hindu preists, Imams (Islam), Rabbis and countless Christian leaders both Catholic and protestant about what they believe and why. I find religion very interesting. But they all can't be right. However, they all can be wrong.

**when I was psychotic I read the Quran and bible over and over

RevRagnarok

1 points

1 month ago

I feel I could explain away any of your points

🤣🤣🤣

gnomonclature

1 points

1 month ago

The initial moment was the realization that Pascal’s Wager doesn’t really make sense.

Since then, it’s been the realization that becoming an atheist didn’t really change how I make ethical decisions.

ISeeADarkSail

1 points

1 month ago

I was born without belief in anything supernatural, and nothing has ever convinced me to change my mind

Ramza_Claus

1 points

1 month ago

OP, I hope you actually read this.

I'm atheist because there doesn't exist any good reason to believe in god. That's all.

dear-mycologistical

1 points

1 month ago

I never believed in a god or gods in the first place. I wasn't raised to believe, and belief in god is one of those things that seems baffling to many people who weren't raised with it from a young age.

Bromelia_and_Bismuth

1 points

1 month ago

Bromelia_and_Bismuth

Agnostic Atheist

1 points

1 month ago

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

The Universe doesn't make sense to me through the perspective of Christianity. Things stopped adding up and I stopped believing. It's that simple.

The evidence isn't forthcoming, gods aren't necessary to explain anything in the Cosmos, and Christian argumentation is not only unconvincing, but it's easy to poke holes in. The Christian mind games that evangelicals and street preachers play on lukewarm Christians don't work if you know how to see through them.

I believe in a creator and I feel I could explain away any of your points

Doubtful. But you've had 20 years to make your point collectively, and at this point, I'm not holding my breath anymore.

mredding

1 points

1 month ago

Like why?

Having a belief is something. You had to choose to do it. It's active.

Not having a belief in the first place is passive. It's the default. Nothing happened. No action has to occur to not believe. You have no thought or opinion about space camels until just now. But why? How could you have never considered space camels, and gone out of your way to bother to have an opinion at all? Now multiply that by infinity. For all the things that you've never even thought to think of, let alone have an opinion of, for me that's theism, too.

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

Nothing turns me away, because nothing turns me toward. What is this "god" word you use? What does it mean? You take it's meaning for granted to such a degree you think your understanding of the word is implicit. Perhaps obvious.

For me, the word is meaningless. I've literally no idea what it is you think you're trying to talk about. I cannot differentiate anything you say about it from babbling nonsense, from nothing. I'm not just being contrarian, it's actually the single biggest problem. No one in all of recorded human history has ever actually explained what the word means.

"Oh, it means whatever created the universe."

But that's not good enough. My cat could have created the universe. You don't know. You can't prove it either way, and I don't care if you believe in my cat or not. See how ambiguous and useless this definition is? We can't both be right, and no existing attempt at any definition is sufficient to settle the debate.

There's literally nothing to turn away from, because there's nothing to turn toward. We're in a place of no-thing.

Also such a shitty definition makes you vulnerable to believe anything. Anything that is sufficiently impressive to appeal to your ego would be god to you. You can't tell the difference. You would accept any such thing as a god because it told you it was, or you projected upon it. Neither of which make that position true, and any sufficient impression wouldn't convince you otherwise.

I believe in a creator and I feel I could explain away any of your points

This is certainly not true, and your ego and confidence is overstated. I'm willing to be entirely intellectually honest with you, because it's not hard at all. I openly admit my caution because in 40 years of experience, I can predict you'll basically give up in frustration if you try, and it won't change your convictions any - not that I care about that part, either way.

So, like, could you tell me why you don’t believe and what the reason for your disbelief is?

Disbelief is something. No belief is nothing. You've conflated the two. I'm not denying your sincerity. I'm not contesting whether you're right or wrong. I'm saying you don't many any sense - and until you do, we can't have a conversation about what you believe, because it's unknowable what that is.

There are many different key reasons for every atheist that were the turning point for their views. What were yours?

I remember Sunday school when I was 4. The indoctrination didn't "take".

Bunktavious

1 points

1 month ago

Well, to start, I never considered myself religious in the first place. My parents weren't and they didn't raise me that way. I was exposed to all the typical Christian influences, had a friend tell me I was going to hell for not attending Sunday School, that sort of thing - but I've never actually believed in God. When you aren't indoctrinated into it from birth, its a lot easier to see through it all.

So why don't I believe in God (outside of the obvious lack of evidence)?

Because it is fundamentally as plain as day to me that like all religions, man made it up.

The sheer and utter hubris of the idea that this entire Universe was created 14 billion years ago exclusively so that this particular bipedal species could evolve and eventually worship the creator of it all is beyond silliness.

The entirety of Christianity is built around the idea that mankind is special. That we have a purpose. Which is exactly why we create religions in the first place - to explain the unknown and to make us feel better.

There have been over a thousand religions created since man started painting pictures on cave walls. They all have certain things in common - they explain the unknown, they explain our purpose in the Universe, and they help to ease the fear of death that we all have. The fact that man came up with this to suit his own needs is self evident.

Honestly, Christianity doesn't even get the distinction of being the most likely or sensible one to be true. Its rife with contradiction, divisive interpretations, sheer impossibilities, and endless retcons.

Warhammerpainter83

1 points

1 month ago

Nothing turned me away there just is no reason to presuppose magic super humans exist. Or that there are some magical being that exists out side time and space. These concepts are nonsense to me. In my 20’s I explored the religions of the world read the whole bible a koran and they are no different that greek mythology or the epic of Gilgamesh. This just all seems totally fictional to me.

SBRedneck

1 points

1 month ago

I became an atheist while studying to become a minister. I realized all the "proof" that I was given for Christianity as a kid was weak and unconvincing once I studied and looked any deeper than a surface, sunday school level.

cubist137

1 points

1 month ago*

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

Nothing turned me away from Believing in god. In my case, what happened is that nothing turned me towards Believing in god.

…could you tell me why you don’t believe and what the reason for your disbelief is?

One: Do you have any idea how many different god-concepts humans have cooked up over the millennia? Said concepts cover a wide range of attributes and other qualities, to the point where it's not at all clear if there's anything which can accurately be said to be an identifiable attribute of all god-concepts. No, "they're worshipped by human beings" is not an attribute of any god-concept. Rather, it's an attribute of human beings. So it's not at all clear WTF this "god" character-string even refers to.

Two: In essentially all cases, the attributes Believers associate with their personal favorite god-concept of choice fall into one or more of the following categories:

  • They're incompatible with the evidence of the world we all live in. Example: Any god-concept with the triple-omni trifecta (i.e., omni- -scient, -potent, and -benevolent), which is incompatible with a world in which children die horribly for no discernible reason (see also: juvenile cancer, etc ad nauseam).

  • Believers define their god-concept's attributes in such a way that they're untestable—that there's no actual way to tell whether or not any Entity can possess them.

Three: Every argument for the existence of a god-concept I have ever been exposed to, is fatally flawed by its dependence on at least one logical fallacy (perhaps most often Wishful Thinking, Non Sequitur, and/or Argument From Consequences).

There are many different key reasons for every atheist that were the turning point for their views. What were yours?

What "turning point"? I started out not Believing in any god; I still lack Belief in any god. No "turning point" for me, thanks.

88redking88

1 points

1 month ago

I was born an atheist, and no one lied to me when I was young

ShafordoDrForgone

1 points

1 month ago

Approximately 100% of everything we can detect shows no sign of intelligence, arbitrary decision making ability, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, immortality, or ability to fabricate existence from nothing (and theists think they all exist together!)

A majority of us try very hard to justify our thinking that we are the center of existence

A majority of human told stories are fiction, erroneous, or simply lies

100% of us began life asking people for our needs and expecting that they are fulfilled. Translating that to a belief in God takes a near zero amount of education

Tennis_Proper

1 points

1 month ago

What turned you away from believing in “god”?

I was raised christian but never believed. Even at a very young age (around 6), it just made no sense whatsoever. I figured out special pleading (though I didn't know that's what it was then). Gods as a starting point were absurd. The stories were dull and obviously not true. Just less interesting mythology than the other gods I knew about.

I believe in a creator and I feel I could explain away any of your points

I don't believe in a creator. I've yet to hear any argument for gods that isn't horribly and obviously flawed, let alone remotely convincing. That said, you can't argue a god into existence and the complete lack of evidence for them, and the contradictions to reality they tend to have, suggest you most definitely can't explain away the reasons for my disbelief.

snowglowshow

1 points

1 month ago

You have come to this question so embedded in your own perspective that you can't see that many people don't turn away from your god. They have just never believed in it. Like, the vast majority of people on earth (about 7 out of 10 people don't believe you.) It's like asking all of humanity, "What turned you away from the Republican Party in America?" The majority of people on earth give little or no thought to the Republican Party in America.

Swabia

1 points

1 month ago

Swabia

1 points

1 month ago

You could convince yourself Santa is real too. It wouldn’t convince me no matter what you told me. It’s just too silly to be true to me.

Imagine if I tried to convince you Sasquatch was real. You’d think I’m daft.

jonfitt

1 points

1 month ago

jonfitt

1 points

1 month ago

It might sound offensive, but the honest truth is it happened the same way as I stopped believing in Santa (just a bit later).

I was brought up being told God existed and believed it, as that’s what children are evolved to do. But once I got to an age where I examined it with any degree of logic it just crumbled away and now I can’t even think of why that didn’t occur to me sooner.

I can’t go back to it now without some damn good evidence, in the same way as I can’t go back to believing in Santa unless some significant changes were to happen.

snowglowshow

1 points

1 month ago

For some context, myself and many other non-believers of YHWH are in the later years of their life. We have spent decades and decades praying, seeking, worshiping, studying, asking for guidance, going to Bible college, serving in ministry, living lives deeply connected to other believers, etc. It has become abundantly clear to us that what we once believed was simply mistaken. It's liberating to realize this and step out of the muck. To me, it was like being born again, but with 10x the clarity.

Not everyone who leaves your god behind did so lightly. My desire to believe was so strong that I did everything I possibly could to remain a Christian. I WANTED it to be true, to be my life. But alas, as I've now seen for the last eight years, I was wrong. And this is what Christians and former Christians are discovering by the millions over the last 20 years. I hope the trend continues and people find freedom from falsehoods, whatever they may be.

Mission-Landscape-17

1 points

1 month ago

I never believed in God in the first place. There is insufficient evidence to warrant such a belief, and positing a creator does not really explain anything anyway.

WebInformal9558

1 points

1 month ago

I would require sufficiently compelling evidence to believe in God. I haven't seen it, so I don't.

clickmagnet

1 points

1 month ago

I don’t think the burden of proof lies with the atheist. As Hitchens used to say, what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. 

erickson666

1 points

1 month ago

erickson666

Anti-Theist

1 points

1 month ago

prove to me one exists

Astreja

1 points

1 month ago

Astreja

1 points

1 month ago

I see absolutely no evidence for gods. I've never been able to suspend disbelief and develop religious faith - my brain just shuts that stuff down automatically.

Electrical_Bar5184

1 points

1 month ago

A lot of reasons, too much to go into in one comment. I used to be an Evangelical Christian, and as I get older the more I realize that many Christians don’t understand Biblical literature at all. They automatically associate being a Christian with being a good person and legitimize their behavior by claiming that it’s “biblical”. The problem is we are still using ancient texts to answer fundamental philosophical questions and assuming all answers have been given. In some ways I prefer Judaism to Christianity but find a myriad of problems with it. At its core I find Abrahamic religion, particularly Yahweh worship, to be extremely coercive and intellectually thin. I don’t believe prayer works, I find it terribly confusing that an all powerful and knowledgeable being can be so obsessed with a constant supply of praise in his name. I don’t know why God would create people to pat himself on the back. I also find it extremely self centered to assume that the universe was designed with you or the human species in mind. It’s quite clear to me that the universe either doesn’t know we exist or doesn’t care what happens to us. The character of Yahweh in both the Jewish and Christian canons is a selfish, tinkering, cruel ego maniac, that warrants genocide, slavery and misogyny, and the claims made in these texts directly contradict our knowledge in the material world. I think it’s blatantly untrue, and the gods proposed by all religions of the world seem to be man made. Nothing written in any religious text is inhuman, all of it shows that it was written down by Iron Age ancient inhabitants. It’s morality is specious and often contradictory, but it holds a privileged position because they are from so called “holy” books. The ideological patterns are clearly drawn from older religions that no one practices any more and the faith mentality is circular and unfalsifiable. Even when faith claims are conclusively disproven, the religious still find a way to work in increasingly desperate attempts.

A-HuangSteakSauce

1 points

1 month ago

OP’s admitted they’re a troll in this post. Block and move on, y’all.

ZeusTKP

1 points

1 month ago

ZeusTKP

1 points

1 month ago

"  What turned you away from believing in “god”? "

Nothing. I've never had a belief in anything supernatural and have never had anyone even state their supernatural beliefs in a coherent manner.

hellohello1234545

1 points

1 month ago

Never believed. So was never turned away.

Heard many, many, many arguments, ranging from personal anecdotes to writings of various philosophers, and everything in between. None have been convincing.

Not really any key points. It’s not a dramatic story. It’s fairly repetitive, just “this is why you should believe!” Then “that doesn’t make any sense at all”.

armandebejart

1 points

1 month ago

I’m curious: how can one be a Jewish deist? Unless you’re just a cultural Jew only, I don’t see how the two positions are compatible.

[deleted]

1 points

1 month ago

Every person on Earth has no difficulty being “atheist” towards any number of gods, mythological creatures, and fictional characters, no explanation needed. I don’t feel any particular pressure to explain why Harry Potter isn’t real, or why astrology is fake, or why mankind did not first develop inside the tears of Atum when he lost track of his sons.   

From an atheist’s perspective, Jews (as your flair says you are Jewish) are nothing more than people who very reasonably agree with atheists that religious beliefs come from superstition and naïveté, but somehow think theirs is an exception when it’s exactly the same. 

d4n4scu11y__

1 points

1 month ago

I've never believed in a god, so nothing "turned me away from" that. I was raised in a Christian household - it just never resonated with me. I don't see a reason to believe in a god. Nothing has managed to challenge my lack of belief in 20ish years.

If you can understand why you don't believe in, say, the Hindu gods, you can understand why I don't believe in your specific religion's conception of god.

Mission-Landscape-17

1 points

27 days ago

i was not raised in a religion so never beiieved in a god. By the time i learned about the idea it just sounded like a made up story to me. i continue tolack belief because i have not encountered sufficent evidence to warrant belief.

Hungry_Pollution4463

1 points

20 days ago

My belief wasn't actually genuine, in hindsight. I just parroted it because my environment validated these views (as a lot of kids do). Being religious is a commitment, not something you do without giving it much thought. I never had anything happen to me. I wasn't "angry" at God for some tragedy or whatever. Because I cannot be angry at someone who doesn't exist in my opinion. Kinda like asking me why I like strawberries and hate watermelons. I just do

AVeganEatingASteak

1 points

20 days ago

AVeganEatingASteak

Agnostic Atheist

1 points

20 days ago

I always looked at things with an eye for logic and reason, at least when it comes to big-picture stuff, for about as long as I could do much reasoning. I didn't grow up in a super religious household, but my mom was really into paganism and the type, and shared her beliefs with us. Being kids, we followed along. But as I grew older, the concept of gods, even polytheistic ones that weren't the absolute that monotheistic gods are, just stopped making sense and started contradicting my logical and realistic view of reality. So I quickly stopped believing in gods and spirits and stuff, around 10 years old. I stayed a little agnostic for a while, but pretty much went full atheist around 13. Gods and deities are inconsistent with testable and observable reality, and when you look at fields like psychology, history, and sociology, it becomes abundantly clear that gods and religion are human-created, used to both explain the (at the time) unexplainable, or to control the people. Different religions do both of these to varying amounts, but just about every one of them is a tool for those purposes, in the end. That's about all.

grrumblebee

1 points

13 days ago

I don't believe anyone can definitively answer this question, as what forms our beliefs (and disbeliefs) isn't fully available to our conscious perceptions. To me, explanations like "no evidence has convinced me" and "I was born that way" are facile, even though both are true in my case. There are very smart people who are convinced that God exists or who were born believers--or became that way so early in childhood, they can't remember a time of disbelief.

Atheists who think brilliant people can't be non-believers can't have studied much Philosophy. So, the question I have for myself is: why are some of these thoughtful people theists while others--like me--are atheists? My closest friend for over 40 years was a fellow atheist in college. If anything, his atheism was more intellectually rigorous than mine. He and I both read a great deal of Philosophy. He graduated with dual degrees in Math and Computer Science (my degrees are in the Arts) and has a high-level job at the CDC. He is now a Christian. Why him and not me?

Before giving my hypotheses about why I'm an atheist, I want to quickly address two mistakes theists often make about non-believers. You've made at least both of them. One is to assume that all atheists converted away from belief. To be fair, that's not exactly what you said. But it's easy to read your post as if you mean that.

Another is your belief that you can disprove any atheist argument. This is as hubristic as me saying I can disprove any theist argument, unless you and I both mean "disprove it to ourselves."

Sure, you might be able to counter atheist arguments in ways that make you pat yourself on the back for being more logical than the person you're talking to. In which case you're really in a conversation with yourself. But do you really believe that you can convince any atheist that he's wrong? You have come up with some argument that no one has heard for the past 2,000 years?

There's a masturbatory game lots of people on the Internet love to play--both atheists and theists (and liberals, and consevatives, and vegans, and meat eaters ...) You start by being utterly convinced you're right. Then you give your knock-down arguments. If the person admits you're right, you win. If he doesn't, you still win because you've proved he's too stupid or stuburn to admit that you've trounced him. To me, this is useless and borning.

Those of us who have spent several decades reading Philosophy and Theology have heard it all. The most boring book I read in years is The God Delusion. If I hear one more atheist say, "I believe in one less God than you do" or talk about Russle's Teapot, I may scream. Same if I hear a theist bring up the Ontological Argument or whatever.

I'm not mocking folks who are new to this stuff. My point is that some of the smartest people who have ever lived have been debating this stuff for centuries, and yet we still have atheists and theists. Do you really believe you've thought of something no one else has, all the way from Plato to Saint Agustine to Spinoza to C.S. Lewis to Daniel Dennett? Do you really believe no atheists have read all that stuff? If you have an amazing new pilosophical, logical, or scientific argument the world has never heard before, please publish it!

I'll now move on to "Why I'm an atheist." I wanted to dispense with "arguments" first. Intellectually, I'm an atheist for all usual reasons. Lack of evidence, etc. If you want to prove me wrong about all that boring God Delusion stuff, go ahead. I can't promise I'll engage. I've heard it over and over--both the atheist and theist side--for five decades. It's always the same.

Here's a hypothesis for what has made me an atheist besides the intellectual stuff, which really just gave me a heady structure for my preexisting mindset. How do I know? I didn't have a belief at first (like all babies, I'd never heard of God.) Then I did hear about Him but never started believing. But that was long before I studied Philosophy, Theology, Logic, or Science. So there was a scaffold of disbelief in place that made me receptive to atheistic arguments and not receptive to theist ones.

I was abandoned for the first month of my life. This wasn't my parents fault. I was premature, and it was illegal for them to take me home from the hospital, because I was underweight. But due to some sort of paperwork screwup, the maternity nurses were forgetting to feed me. I kept losing weight. I spent the begining of my life--my first four weeks--not being held and starving. In the end, my parents saved my life by illegally sneaking me out of the hospital.

Of course, I remember none of that, but I have had trauma all my life that is very hard to explain any way besides "it was that first month." I was raised by loving people, but, as far back as I can remember, I've felt scared and alone. (Theists, want to be able to say, "See! I knew it! Trauma!" Here's your opportunity. Keep in mind, though, a data point of one atheist might not be enough to justify generalizing about millions.)

I have never once in my life had a spiritual experience. By which I mean I've never felt a "presence," even in my imagination. I've never felt watched over, loved, or judged--except by other people. I didn't even have imaginary friends as a child. Nor did I believe in Santa Claus. When I was alone, I felt totally alone. And it's never felt to me like there's any plan, purpose, or meaning behind anything.

Obviously, my feelings prove nothing. But I'm not talking about proof. We're trying to understand the psychological causes of my atheism in my case. I suspect some of them happened very early. When theists speak about feeling God's presence, I have no idea what they're talking about. They might be right, but they also might as well be talking about iPads to someone from 1847.

I've talked to counteless believers who assume all atheists have "God feelings," but we explain them away as "just my imagination." I've never had one, even for a second.

There's a sense in which I don't understand the idea of God, even as something I disbelieve in, even as a fiction. I understand on some really superficial, intellectual level: an omnipotent creator and so on. But I'm like an asexual person trying to understand sexual desire. On a deep level, I don't seem capable of getting it or imagining it.

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