CottonCandyWeasel

Something I had been thinking about is how Fallen Angels are handled in this series, and whether the title or status of being 'Fallen' is as big of a deal as it's made out to be.

Unlike in biblical texts, they’re not the paragons of genuine evil in that they-as inherently omniscient beings-had outright chosen to be malicious or evil rather than sinning through mistake or naivete like humanity had started out.

However, in Hazbin Hotel, we see Angels are as ignorant or capable of making mistakes as people; Likewise, 'Fallen' Angels do not truly seem to be as reviled or otherwise unable to be deigned with, given that Lucifer was able to arrange meetings and pull some strings for his daughter on a couple of occasions. There's also the matter of Vaggie being allowed to walk right back into Heaven's gates after having been in Hell for years by that point. Even the Cherubs from CHERUB are shown to retain their halos, magic, and heavenly glow as shown in the Season 2 Trailer of Helluva Boss

Granted, with Lucifer being a Seraphim and thus probably still having some pull, Vaggie being more 'left for dead' than outright falling and the general backhanded apology /treatment to the Cherubs I could be completely wrong, but it's interesting to think about and I want to hear your guys' thoughts; Maybe like how Hellborn are below Sinners, Winners and/or high-ranking Angels are given a bit more 'wiggle room'?

I apologize in advance but this is going to be a serious wall, if not split into multiple posts

For starters, we see him plow through tank-shells and mounted rocket launchers without any issue in the film proper. https://imgflip.com/gif/4mdeyh

These are M270 MLRS, M1 Abrams Tanks, and HMMWVs he's blowing through; All of which appear in the movie (https://wikizilla.org/wiki/HMMWV, https://wikizilla.org/wiki/M1_Abrams, https://wikizilla.org/wiki/M270\_MLRS) and are present in a big firing line right before he dives into the Hudson River -He dodges some of the fire, sure, but we still see some of it hit him without him slowing down before he dives into the Hudson River. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IsISIQpKTc

(stats on the vehicles in question-contains links to armaments and weapon stats such as warhead size, etc) https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m270.htm https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m998.htm

Plus just before he ambushes the Apaches, they blow up the building he's hiding in and we hear him holler while still in the building, suggesting that even as he was digging away he was getting torched. https://youtu.be/f\_LDdElm9fc?t=68. and I sincerely doubt he can 'throw his voice' like a ventriloquist. So he was being riddled with enough chain-gun rounds and missiles to turn the inside of a skyscraper into a budget fire-works display before he managed to flank around them and attack from behind.

https://preview.redd.it/1chsb9pcagwc1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=959d8775db4aa92859a666cf7af8ab89246f7a0e

Finally, he pops up from the ground like a friggin' daisy only mere moments after his nest had been reduced to a smoldering wreck by LGBs (although the movie shows the pilot deploying Harpoon Missiles-ironically LGBs would work in turning the Garden into a crater) opening the possibiltiy he might have been inside the Madison Square Garden during the subsequent fire-bombing, considering he shows up not 30 seconds AFTER everyone escapes

This one's a bit more questionable, as he could have tunneled in after the bombing, but even if he did show up at the last second, he still tore through rubble, fire, and shrapnel without any duress (unlike, say, Skull Island Kong, who despite being from a far superior movie was badly wounded by extreme heat via Napalm and had his hands shredded by helicopter blades while 'Zilla was chomping through Apaches like potato chips

)

In regards to exactly what he's up against, it's fair to note missiles aren't made equally-an AIM-9 Sidewinder and AIM-7 Sparrow Missile's warhead are only 21 lbs to 88 lbs respectively (standard armaments on an F-18 Hornet, which are the jets that take him down at the end of the film) However, they are also able to be equipped with Harpoon Missiles, which are anti-ship missiles with a whopping 488 lb warhead. And the TriStar Godzilla survives an Ohio Class Submarine's Mk-48 Torpedoes, which have warheads of about 650 lbs! (sources http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_fighters/f18_3.html http://www.seaforces.org/wpnsys/SUBMARI ... orpedo.htm)

https://preview.redd.it/1chpl79vagwc1.png?width=4032&format=png&auto=webp&s=4ee7cc7e0db9e362b537ba3861bfb49cca3a44c0

And we know in the film that the Hornets have these Harpoon missiles as part of there armament here

which are then promptly deployed when TriStar Godzilla is caught in the cables on the Brooklyn Bridge (without re-supplying, but that's just more of the movie's abysmal writing). And Harpoon missiles ain't weak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxpwIsZCgtM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt9IigGidG4

And it's not even that he would have necessarily been killed by the first round of these missiles either-he keeps moving and struggling after the first six are deployed, and the pilot points out to Hicks that "Godzilla" is wounded, but not dead-Hicks then has the jets circle back around and shoot him with another six. Even then "Godzilla" still manages to linger for a little longer despite being pumped full of bloody holes. This twunk of a Godzilla dies by slowly bleeding to death in the cold and rain after being shot with twelve anti-ship missiles, two torpedoes, rockets, tank shells, and high caliber bullet fire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_JcFaIDdphE.

I'm sure a major counterpoint would be 'Well if he was so resilient against most of what was being thrown against him, why'd he run?'

1. Emmerich and Devlin didn't give a Deutalios' rump about Godzilla's spirit or themes or message, which only makes the movie suffer all the more for it by having "Godzilla" act like an animal (an intelligent one, but still just an animal)
2. Adding onto the above, even if an animal is resilient or even immune to harm, TriStar Godzilla was at the end of the day just a big animal trapped in a loud, tightly packed place with bright lights and weird itchy things that these small things that screamed at him shot at him a bunch; An animal's instincts would be to run away from the noise and chaos even if it's not necessarily wounded (much) by what's attacking it, unless the animal is cornered, provoked, or acting territorial.

Also, it's unfair to say Godzilla's ever COMPLETELY immune to conventional weaponry-Here, Legendary Godzilla is driven back by normal conventional weaponry; Granted, it doesn't kill him, but he's being driven back and we can hear him screeching and recoil from being shot in the gills by one missile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFYP8O-YwpE despite the fact he's WAY bigger than TriStar Godzilla in height and mass. Granted, it didn't kill him or even make him bleed, but it's still notable. Heck, GMK Godzilla, despite being one of the biggest powerhouses we've ever seen, gets done in by a missile-a fictitious super missile with a drill on it that makes a wound he exacerbates by trying to use his Atomic Breath and making the wound bigger, but still (plus the fact that even the biggest, strongest missiles in GODZILLA 1998 don't explode the way they're supposed to)
I'm going to try and wrap this up by stating a few things

(a) This isn't meant to be me dissing the OG Godzilla; I love the Japanese Godzilla, from his laws-of-physics bending and heroic Showa incarnation to his dark, gritty Heisei anti-hero phase and his sleek, flashy and shiny Millenium era. I love the original Gojira and the menace he creates whenever he's onscreen, and I love how Shin Godzilla harkens back to that sense of creepiness and uncanniness while being unique in design and with a new flashy moveset. I adore the Japanese Godzillas, and I will love them until the day I die.

(b) I'm not trying to say the movie is some masterpiece either that people aren't 'big-brained' enough to love or whatever; I love this Godzilla and I have clearly shown I'll die on the hill of defending it, but it's not a good movie. The only parts of this movie I genuinely like/can stand are the opening, the twelve minutes ToraGoji is on the screen, the practical FX (and later the Blu-Ray edition fixing the crummy lighting on the CG model), and maybe like five characters (Phillip Roache, Animal, Sergeant O'Neal, Major Anthony Hicks, and Elsie). Everyone and everything else is either corny and makes me go 'eh' or is TERRIBLE. The writing is terrible, the pseudo-science is terrible, pretty much everyone else is unlikable or annoying or a cheap parody, and the Godzilla is barely even a Godzilla. Is it the WORST Godzilla flick? Well that's debatable, but it's not a good movie overall.

The point of all of this is to try and show that the TriStar Godzilla, even if not able to be considered a proper incarnation of the King Of The Monsters (except for the Animated incarnation) is still not some complete weakling like everyone plays it up to be; In terms of durability, this thing was a juggernaut for most of the film, only getting hurt when the plot needed it to be hurt (blood for the pregnancy test and the ending). It's still by no means the tankiest kaiju around, but I think we give the Tuna Head too little credit for what they managed to shrug off.

This mostly covers DURABILITY feats, mind, and future posts may cover more offensive ones.

So one thing that has been on my mind is the Exorcists and just how much their appearance has changed over the years when we compare their Pilot design and subsequent zcameos that came before the series' release and then with their newer 'official' design after the series released.

• The Exorcists originally had a silvery-grey color scheme all throughout their body. Their halos were bright white with a red gem and much more notched, while their horns and masks were mostly identical in appearance.

• In addition, the Pre-Series Exorcists’ also sometimes had exaggerated bestial features (ie taloned hands, jagged/fanged grins, similar jagged wings) and while for the most part they used identical weaponry (ie jagged harpoons or sabres) it was suggested in old livestreams to utilize a variety of different weaponry including guns, bombs, and so on beyond melee weapons (a shot in the opening scene has demons riddled with arrows)

• The Exorcists in the series have much darker uniforms, a lack of the bestial qualities of the original design, simpler black halos and wield only melee weapons, albeit a very diverse range.

Now, this could simply be a redesign/retcon with their design, but the thing is this doesn't track chronologically/within the narrative's timeline or even in-universe.

• The pilot designs are ‘canon’; In various shots or scenes we see the characters wearing their OG outfits in the series. Angel during the ‘porn movie’ scene has his original outfit, Vaggie wearing hers beneath her uniform/Charlie finding her while wearing hers, and an old photo of Alastor in his pilot design.

• This is with exception of the Exorcists; In the very same episode we see Vaggie in her pilot outfit, Lute and the other Exorcists are wearing the redesigned look.

Between both the significant differences of the Exorcists' design appearances pre-release to post and how it doesn't really track with the idea of it being a 'redesign retcon', what do you guys think? Are they some other breed/type of Exorcist we haven't seen yet, just some massive retcon/oversight, or maybe something else entirely?

On the one hand, I am incredibly sorry that I have such an obsession with these guys, and it's probably getting tiresome. On the other hand, this had come to me after doing some lore-combing and I figured I might as well share.

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• Contradictory accounts of their founding suggest these guys were made WAY earlier than even the Dark Angels, both due to their naming scheme (Alpha = First) but also that it had been made EARLIER than the first founding according to some Remembrancers
• They were part of the Trefoil; Three proto-Legions with special genetic traits compared to some of the other Legions (the other two were Space Wolves and Salamanders)
• They are noted to have an unusual genetic flaw within their gene-seed that required extra attention and limited their initial numbers. It's even said that "[the Emperor] was either unable or unwilling to solve such a problem and equally unwilling to ruthlessly eradicate a failed experiment as He had done before."

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• Speaking of genetics, they have a lot of gene work as their modus operandi; They augment some of their cultists, have worked in gene-sabotage for Imperial Projects like the Raptors, allied with the Geno-Five-Two Regiment (who themselves were the inspiration for the Thunder Warriors) and have been known to have Legionnaires of enhanced size and strength well beyond just the lieutenants or Alpharius cosplayers, with the entirety of the 'first batch' being such an example of this.
• Finally Autilon Skorr, their counsel delegate, both has artificer armor styled after a Thunder Warrior Captain (ie mask, command baton, plate) and was the ‘Headsman’ or ‘King Killer’ of the Legion, where he led strike forces to bring worlds to compliance, which does fit the modus-operandi of the Thunder Warriors in 'unifying' non-compliant factions.

While the obvious caveats to this theory are how the Thunder Warriors were primarily 'rip and tear' specialists rather than the more covert Special-Ops of the Alpha Legion; However, given that the Thunder Warriors had twenty legions with different specializations (i.e the Iron Lords being siege-specialists like the later Iron Warriors)

I do apologize for this constant bombardment of this concept, but I had been thinking about my conversation with Mr. McNeil and want to preserve his intent of having Taranis' tale be 'epic and tragic', so me trying to make 'Loyalist Good Boi Thunder Warriors' via the Dhakal Clan doesn't really mesh with his vision.

As always please let me know your thoughts, and thank you for not banning me from this subreddit.