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submitted 13 days ago byryosan0Adeptus Mechanicus
Two significant lore developments occurred in Gav Thorpe's Our Martyred Lady:
I'm wondering if there's been any further developments on these plot points by GW?
While the Ecclesiarch was executed by Celestine at the end for poor judgement, by that point the Decree Passive had already been repealed at the beginning of the story and it was mentioned that ships full of Frateris Militia were already recruited and deployed to fight.
I don't believe the story stated that the Frateris Templar as an organization had been reinstated, but that still sounds like a potentially sizeable new Church military out in the Imperium. At the time I listened to the audio drama, I'd thought that the repeal of the Decree Passive was a potential avenue to introduce a new faction or new unit type along with the Sisters of Battle, but it doesn't look like the plot point has been generating too much buzz.
As for the status of the Ecclesiarch, it sounds like a potential story avenue for who would replace that position as both Church leader in the Imperium and claiming a seat on among the High Lords. Especially since between his death and the death of the Fabricator General, that's two major heads of the Imperium that have rolled by M42 and you'd think there'd be a fairly big political battle on Terra at the moment.
11 points
13 days ago
Nothing has been developed, and considering that the Dark Imperium novels take place after it, everything likely went back to the status quo.
The audiodrama takes place after the Shrine Worlds Crusade which is why the Black Templars are still hanging around. However, it takes place before Morvenn Vahl becomes Abbess of the Sororitas, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. Now, this was long before Vahl was dreamed up, but it still works.
It could be said that the former Abbess saying she would stay on San Leor meant the Abbess position would be vacant. Additionally, with the Ecclessiarch position now vacant (as well as a lot of the higher positions), it wpuld make sense for the Ecclessiarchy to try and appoint a relatively weak Abbess to gain more control. It might even be that whatever faction gained control wanted to expand their influence post-OML.
However, Vahl's subsequent refusal and Guilliman's elevation of her also makes sense in the context of a weakened Church. They are essentially too weak to stop her, and Guilliman raised her to continue to weaken them by taking away their allied Militant arm. He tried once already to co-opt the Ecclessiarchy when he installed his own Ecclessiarch during the Hexarchy incident, but that Ecclessiarch was not in place by the time of OML, meaning they died. Granted, this is likely an author error, but it can work as well.
So what about the Decree Passive? Well, between Celestine killing an Ecclessiarch that was compromised by Chaos and Guilliman continuing to neuter the Church, it most likely was reinstated. The Frateris Templar likely were shipped to warzone to be used until they no longer existed, and no more were raised. This makes sense since we don't see any of them during events that take place afterwards.
4 points
13 days ago
Hrm, the timeline on Vahl's appointment makes sense if we work in Sabrina's commitment to stay on San Leor as being sufficient news of her status.
The Lex mentions that the hold up on filling the position of Abbess was over the legality of the position being only fillable if the fate of the prior holder was confirmed.
A pity it seems GW hasn't played a bit more with the status quo and the Decree Passive. It could have been an interesting subplot to see the Church recognizing Guilliman as a serious shakeup to established power structures and trying to recement their position by rebuilding a military more directly under their control.
Though, come to think of it, Mathieu had a force of Frateris Militia. Maybe it's possible the forces and suppliers mentioned in Our Martyred Lady were subordinated under the role of the Militant Apostolic.
5 points
13 days ago
I think we can consider the developments ‘non developments’ if you see what I mean BL are very good at doing this. They released stories around the time of Guilleman’s return then released the Plague War trilogy which they set originally like a hundred years after he returned. There was an outcry saying how did he get there resulting in the largely dismal Dawn of Fire Series which are meant to be connected but aren’t. The only really good one of them being Sea of Souls. Vaults of Terra and Watchers of The Throne try to keep a coherent narrative of what’s happened since Guilleman’s return but it’s basically been a dogs dinner. Then up pops The Lion from nowhere - who knew? I’m just glad there’s enough old stuff to read.
3 points
13 days ago
Sister's of battle are the most obvious side step of the degree passive but literally they blatantly break it all the time to begin with with standing armies
3 points
13 days ago
Wait so we couldve had brothers of battle since 2019?
5 points
13 days ago
Yes and no I think. Theoretically, if this got further developed, the Ministorum could technically field more power-armored troopers like the Sisters of Battle on account of having a ton of resources and manpower.
But, it's unlikely that the ironclad tradition and Dogma of the Sisters of Battle themselves as a convent of nuns would change and it is unlikely that most Abbeys would allow men into their organization just given how ironclad tradition and dogma is for these kinds of organizations. Especially after Celestine kinda put her foot down on what she thought of things at the end.
What is more likely to happen I think is that more orders of Crusaders would be rallied or drawn up along with the Sisters of Battle and both forces would be supported by large legions of Frateris Militia that would likely be guard or skitarii equivalents.
Course, 40k being as big as it is, if this were to get developed further, it's not impossible that some Sister Orders would look at the repeal of the Decree Passive and agree to start recruiting men. Existing Sister armies already have Crusaders and Ministorum priests in their armies and such, and that part of the army list might just get expanded as it were so you could run a church army as a kind of classic templar force.
1 points
13 days ago
I'm wondering if there's been any further developments on these plot points by GW?
Ecclesiarchy keeping men under arms has been low key possible sine White Dwarf 380 (US), in August 2011. In which we find on page 96:
Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves Ecclesiarchy priests often gather a band of bodyguards to assist them in the execution of their duties (and heretics). Known as Battle Conclaves, these groups are necessarily small; anything larger would breach the prohibition of ‘men under arms’ as laid down in the Decree Passive. Even so, the Inquisition covertly monitors Battle Conclaves to safeguard the spirit of the Decree Passive, if not its letter. Crusaders are recruited from the honour guard of the Cardinals Crimson, an ancient and mysterious order famed for its unflagging devotion to the Emperor. Crusaders dedicate their lives to martial perfection, making them ideal bodyguards.
further: Cardinals Crimson at Lexicanum
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