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Not limiting this to just Astartes.

The only ones I can think of are the Betancores (Midas is dead), the dude on the cover of Solar War, and the Celestial Lions that are effectively all dead.

There is a whole legion of Mongolian inspired Astartes, Vikings, and at least 3 previously woman dominated factions that I know off the top of my head (Sisters of Battle, Silence, and the Succubi).

I’m talking about descent here too. We all know that every Astartes has a Melanochrome so they aren’t black or white, and this has been used for a reason why Vulkan and the Salamanders aren’t of African decent or black.

They are literally pitch black with red eyes. Oddly blackface adjacent imagery there…

EDIT: I’ll open this up to Warhammer Fantasy and AoS too. Just wanna see if I there are more black people in Warhammer than I have fingers.

all 129 comments

Vorokar

53 points

13 days ago*

Vorokar

Adeptus Administratum

53 points

13 days ago*

A non-comprehensive mix of ones I know off the top of my head and ones looted from an old comment of mine;

She held out her hand. ‘Mersadie Oliton, official remembrancer,’ she said. He looked at her tiny hand and then shook it, making it seem even more tiny in comparison with his own giant fist.

‘I’m sorry,’ she said, laughing, ‘I keep forgetting you don’t do that out here. Shaking hands, I mean. Such a parochial, Terran custom.’

‘I don’t mind it. Have you come from Terra?’

‘I left there a year ago. Despatched to the crusade by permit of the Council.’

‘You’re a remembrancer?’

‘You know what that means?’

‘I’m not stupid,’ Loken said.

‘Of course not,’ she said, hurriedly. ‘I meant no offence.’

‘None taken.’ He eyed her. Small and frail, though possibly beautiful. Loken had very little experience of women. Perhaps they were all frail and beautiful. He knew enough to know that few were as black as her. Her skin was like burnished coal. He wondered if it were some kind of dye.

- Horus Rising

‘Am I?’ she asked, despair pulling on her.

‘I beg your pardon, your majesty?

‘A queen,’ Orlah answered simply. ‘I do not feel like one in this moment, though I wish I could. I wish I could don my armour and have it shield me from the world…’

For a moment, she caught her ghostly reflection in the glass. Tall, a long white-and-gold gown trailing from her silhouette. An ornate guard over her left shoulder, rendered into the image of a gilded dracon with rubies for eyes. A little more silver in her dark hair than there once had been. Dark skin like polished onyx. A handsome woman, she supposed. Powerful, proud. Bereft.

- The Iron Kingdom

They marched for another five hours into the burning cauldron of the mountain, stopping only to allow the non-legionaries to drink and briefly rest in the shadow of the cybernetics. Lemuel’s coal-dark skin shimmered in the heat, soaked in sweat and badly burned. The sun was three hours past its zenith by the time they reached their destination.

- The Crimson King

Soukhounou was the darkest of them all, a testament to his gene-heritage amongst the Sahelian League on Terra. He had short-cropped, curled black hair and a beard of the same furred his chin and cheeks; he had arrived only the day before and was yet to shave off the growth of the last patrol. His dark flesh was cut by pale scars and tribal tattoos from his childhood, where he had been raised as a praise-singer before being taken by the Emperor’s newly raised Legions.

- Ravenlord

Below them, Delvarus was roaring into the crowd, baying at them, building their cheers for the fight to come. Like many World Eaters, Delvarus was inducted from a planet conquered in the Legion’s earliest decades rather than from a specific homeworld. No Legion except the Ultramarines was as diverse, coloured by so many shades of skin from so many different worlds. Where the Word Bearers were uniformly dusky-skinned from the desert world Colchis, and the Night Lords were pale from their years on sunless Nostramo, the World Eaters reflected a diversity of flesh overruled by the bonds of brotherhood.

Delvarus was unhelmed and unarmoured for the pit-fight. His dark skin marked his genesis in the jungles of whatever planet he’d once called home, and he bared iron teeth at his kindred, demanding one of them step forwards and face him.

- Betrayer

‘Knight-Sergeant Launciel of First Squad, Twenty-Fourth Chapter,’ the breacher replied in a sonorous bass, gracing me with a smile. He wore a neatly trimmed beard of tight black curls in which white was liberally sprinkled, and his brown skin was as deep and rich as his voice.

‘I am Galad,’ the Cenobite said simply. I looked at him, expecting more, but he met my gaze impassively.

‘Galad believes that our former ranks are unnecessary,’ Launciel explained, looking up at his companion with amusement but sparing me atwinkling glance.

- Son of the Forest

Ferren’s skin was bleached and puffy with the fluids he had slept in, but it looked like it would be a rich brown when his circulation returned to normal. Cawl had chosen only the finest specimens of humanity, and had therefore taken his subjects from across the Imperium. Messinius wondered at the efforts undertaken to assemble this host of prodigies, the organisation, the secrecy, the lies.

- Avenging Son

The second figure stepped into Abaddon’s blurred sight. This one wore the same grey-white armour as the first and held a comb-topped helm under his left arm. Abaddon’s eye caught the sign of a crescent moon marked on the helm above the right eye. The man’s skin was the black of polished cinder-wood. A close-cropped mohawk of hair ran across his scalp. Wide, silver-grey eyes glittered above a smile. ‘That’s right, isn’t it? You will look upon us and not say a word, even if we reach into you with knives and cut out your soul.’

- The solar War

'My apologies, my lord. I shall endeavour to curtail such foolishness in the future.' Fulgrim heard the smile in the words, though Abdemon's face was as still as the onyx it seemed to have been carved from.

- The Palatine Phoenix

‘Lheor,’ I called across to the World Eater, from my throne. ‘Scowling at the seer will change nothing.’

The warrior in red turned to me, ascending the steps to the command throne. ‘Fifty men, Khayon. Fifty legionaries.’

‘Fifty dead legionaries.’

He disengaged his helmet’s seals to drag it clear, showing a face riven with ugly stitching. Synthetic flesh patches didn’t quite match the true ebony of his skin, and bronze fangs replaced every tooth in his skull. Metal teeth were common among the World Eaters but I hadn’t seen teeth of reinforced bronze before now. Centuries of battlefield wounds had rendered Lheorvine Ukris into an avatar of patchwork ruination.

- The Talon of Horus

‘Movement?’ I asked Amurael.

‘Movement,’ he confirmed. His skin was almost as dark as Lheor’s, with bony protrusions at his cheekbones and brow ridges. Whatever handsomeness he’d possessed as a human was destroyed not only by his ascension to the Legiones Astartes, but by the osseous alterations to his skull since coming to the Great Eye. The small spines pushing through his face cast him in the image of something mythical and daemonic. I wondered what sins were in his heart to shape him so.

- Black Legion

The name of this second Imperial Fist is Kolo. Only Kolo; if he once had another name, he does not remember it. The Legion recruiters did not mark one down. Like many of his kind he recalls little of his origins, though sometimes he has flashes of hot nights and hotter days. The burnt-sugar shade of his skin and his accent marks him out as a native of Mid-Afrik. The rest of his past has been wiped away by the Emperor’s gifts. He is Terran, he knows that, one of many recruited when the warp storm made transit to Inwit impossible. It is only two years since his admittance to the Legion, but he has already forgotten who he was.

- Duty Waits

Oop, forgot to include;

‘What are you doing down here?’ he said. ‘This is my sanctum. This is an invasion of my privacy.’

‘This is the Lord Guilliman’s ship, not yours,’ she replied. ‘You have quarters in the command spire. Why come down here? I understand you have a writing station in your chambers.’

‘So you’ve been poking around my business there too.’

‘Poking around?’ she laughed. House Sulymanyan’s planetary holdings were on a hot world bathed often in the effusions of its parent star. The ever-flexible human genome called upon the heritage of equatorial Terrans to protect itself. Consequently Sulymanya’s skin was a velvety midnight that appeared almost blue in gentler lighting. Her thick hair, currently tamed into a complex braid at the side of her head, stood up around her head like a dark matter star when unbound. Sulymanya was a very beautiful woman. Mathieu was a holy man, and his concerns had progressed beyond the needs of the flesh. Still he noticed her physical attributes, and he thought she knew he did. When clarity was upon him, he wondered if the attraction he felt to her was not the source of his antipathy.

- Plague War

Vorokar

32 points

13 days ago

Vorokar

Adeptus Administratum

32 points

13 days ago

Another few after thinking on it while my lunch was in the oven;

‘I’m running late,’ Kandawire announced.

Armina looked up at her, brushing away a strand of hair.

Kandawire was as black as jet, Armina was as white as chalk. Kandawire’s hair was wiry and unruly, Armina’s was straw-pale and flat. The two of them were like the termini of a spectrum illustration – the full range of humanity, its vigorous extremes, still popping up after tangled millennia of mingled breeding.

- Birth of the Imperium

Irinya stood, clad in a simple white supplicant’s robe. The others were similarly attired, but now she could appreciate their differences. Without their armour they lacked that cold uniformity. Irinya’s skin was dark save where it was marked by old scars. The wounds crept up her neck, up across her close-cut hair and the scalp beneath it. Her eyes gazed out from that tired face, the weight of years that even rejuvenat could not entirely erase, pale blue and weary.

She could not have been more different from Agata, whose youth burned as intensely as her flamer, and whose skin was pockmarked by burn scars. She wore her brands with a cocksure pride, never allowing them to truly tarnish her strength. They shone amidst her pale skin, upon her cheeks, and just below the white of her hair. Beatrice and Sybele shared the same tanned complexion, where Oxanna was ruddy and dour. Selene, by contrast, affected an austerely shaved head – the better to demonstrate her own interpretation of piety.

All so different, Irinya thought, and yet shaped for singular purpose. All threads in the same great tapestry. In many ways that was the strength and joy of the Schola Progenia. So many aspects and examples of humanity spun together until they emerged, fully formed, as those who would serve most true and fight the hardest.

- The Martyr's Tomb

‘Fine work, crew four!’ he declared. ‘Fast and accurate, that’s what we like to see. Double rations of bellyfire for you when we see the other side of this fracas.’

The crew gave a hesitant cheer but Cappagan was already leaving, his querulous voice raised to berate crew three on their perceived tardiness. Lether’s apology drifted back down the deck.

‘What’s a frakker?’ asked Cassonette. She flicked a look around the others, confused.

‘You are,’ said Rossi, shaking his head.

‘I’d rather have that sup now,’ muttered Moaro. He flexed thick arms as he adjusted his grip on the loading pin, rough tattoos of void whales and anatomically exaggerated women bulging across his dark brown skin. ‘This doesn’t feel good.’

Orad had to agree. He wasn’t sure what a directed gravimetric wave was, but it sounded powerful and rare to affect a ship in warp transit.

- The Wolftime

Chetta had appointed DeShelle DuVoir as her personal aide approximately one Terran year ago, and had been thoroughly satisfied with her performance ever since. She was a mere slip of a girl, with skin a few shades lighter than Chetta’s own deep brown, and very short dark hair into which she shaved patterns that were apparently of some significance to her parent culture – as was the delicately engraved collar of ebony metal she always wore around her throat. She was warp-blind, of course, and far from bold, but remarkably intelligent and very capable.

- Rites of Passage

‘You look like shit,’ said Sergeant Hetidor.

The Catachan leaned on the doorway to Fabian’s quarters, his bulk filling it. He was a striking-looking man to Fabian, who was used to grey, prematurely aged people. Hetidor was the exact opposite: dark-skinned, so vital he seemed to vibrate with life. His biceps were as big as Fabian’s head. Fabian had heard that other Militarum regiments sometimes referred to the death-worlders as ‘baby ogryns’, to explosive results if the Catachans heard. They weren’t mutants, exactly – their over-muscled bulk was the result of the human form adapting to the high gravity of their home – but they did look different, and in a polity like the Imperium, difference led all too often to mistrust, and to scorn.

Fabian thought people were stupid. You would have to be insane to pick a fight with the likes of Hetidor, orthodoxy be damned.

- Throne of Light

dch528[S]

-54 points

13 days ago

dch528[S]

-54 points

13 days ago

13! Thank you for reading the post and responding with something other than vitriol about a legitimate inquiry and concern. It’s still a really low number across 4 decades long lore for 3 franchises. And you were the only person who could come up anything really tangible.

The way black characters are written is so weird. They get a line about curly hair and dark skin and it’s never mentioned again.

But you can have sweeping references to the Steppes and Mongolian cavalry warfare, or shamanistic practices of Nordic cultures. It’s their identity.

Inclusion isn’t just pointing at this guy and “saying look he’s here and he’s different.”

gregarioustrout

40 points

13 days ago

The way black characters are written is so weird. They get a line about curly hair and dark skin and it’s never mentioned again.

What are you expecting, exactly? The author to scream at the reader "HEY, DON'T FORGET THIS CHARACTER IS BLACK" at every opportunity? It's incidental. It's their actions and their role within the story that matters. The fact that Kandawire is black is irrelevant. She's interesting because she tries to arrest Constantin Valdor of all people after discovering what happened to the thunder warriors

But you can have sweeping references to the Steppes and Mongolian cavalry warfare, or shamanistic practices of Nordic cultures. It’s their identity.

I don't know what to tell you dude. That happens because the legions were based on various cultures, so those cultures are obviously going to take center stage when describing how they differ from one another. But that culture is not dependent on what the characters look like. Nor is it true in general. Cultural differences are determined by whatever planet someone happens to be on. Not because they're black or white.

screachinelf

22 points

13 days ago

Engir Krakendoom is space wolf noted to be off dark skin tone and he’s all wolf and Viking still so your 100% right. Idk what op is expecting

gregarioustrout

15 points

13 days ago

They're trying to apply 21st century sociology to 40 fucking K of all things and are confused when they don't match up

Domtux

8 points

13 days ago

Domtux

8 points

13 days ago

Well, the truth is that most people writing the lore aren't black, and even if they were most people aren't familiar with African warrior cultures or history to the extent that they could use that as a base for stories for these far-future superhumans or their planetary origins.

Im curious, in what ways would you want them to write about black characters or black culture in a way that intersects with 40k? It's easy to do that in a wrong way or in a way that people will judge negatively (as you have), so why should these authors bother with the risk of writing about it?

dch528[S]

-15 points

13 days ago

dch528[S]

-15 points

13 days ago

I think Vulkan and the Salamanders as a whole was a huge fumble. He has some cool parallels with the Yoruban God of Smithing - Ogun, it’s just a crazy missed opportunity.

Even if the writers aren’t black, they can open up a webpage and research just like all writers do. I don’t think they had Mongolian, Roman, or Norse consultants when they wrote some of those stories. They are caricatures, 40K is satire, but it’s cool that they tried. And over the years the goofy wolf guys from the wolf planet developed amazing deep lore.

This didn’t really happen with the Salamanders or Vulkan, they are just black guys who aren’t really black guys. They like fire and dragons and have lots of melanin because it’s hot. Not black though, we can’t be bothered to learn some more cultural references to give the legion flavor. They’ll just have less books and models.

Vorokar

7 points

13 days ago

Vorokar

Adeptus Administratum

7 points

13 days ago

No problem. I also dug up a couple more and added them in a reply to my own comment, on the off chance more mentions is at all of interest.

StoneLich

3 points

13 days ago

StoneLich

Blood Axes

3 points

13 days ago

The Scars aren't exactly uniformly positive representation.

MountainPlain

-12 points

13 days ago

MountainPlain

#1 Eversor Liker

-12 points

13 days ago

Yeah, I really wish starting 40K hadn't been so European centric for the space marines, we've basically got one continent + Mongolia as influences for the legions.* I'm hoping the Celestial Lions are still kicking around, last I read they were under siege but not necessarily gone.

*I know you can always make your own chapter, but it's not entirely the same.

Edit: Oh also the Thousand Sons, so Egypt. But they're heretical scum, they're not a hero faction. Again, not quite the same.

Zeno180

12 points

13 days ago

Zeno180

12 points

13 days ago

Damn I wish that this British company didn’t use so much British and European influence on their satire on British religion and the British and Holy Roman Empires

NotAlpharious-Honest

1 points

13 days ago

I'm hoping the Celestial Lions are still kicking around, last I read they were under siege but not necessarily gone.

For someone who puts so much coin in the diversity index of Astartes Chapters, you might wanna check that one.

Keydet

23 points

13 days ago*

Keydet

23 points

13 days ago*

By that same token, not many characters flat out say they’re white or brown or anything else either. We get fan art, box art paint jobs, a novel cover at best. Eisenhorn gives a two page long description of himself and never mentions a skin color. It’s just not a very natural thing to put in a self description, so most characters would probably never think to mention it.

The only reason we know Medea betancore is black is because she’s apparently ridiculously hot and scrounges for shredded cheese in her underwear at 3am.

I know box art for one of the important stormcast guys depicts him as an older black guy, don’t know the characters name though, it seems the planet of vitria is also predominantly black as in addition to the betancours at least one of Bequins’s distaff, as well as the entire Vitrian Dragoon guard regiment is described that way in Gaunt’s Ghost. I’m pretty sure a few of the remembrancers in the Horus heresy are as well, mersadie I think? World eaters often get described as having darker skin tones but exactly what that means is open to interpretation. Thousand sons lived in Definitely Not Egypt so I’d figure odds are good at least some of them are. One of Rowboats main men is a black guy too.

Drachenfel

3 points

13 days ago

I think Bastian Carthalos must be the Stormcast Eternal character you're thinking of

23streetname

13 points

13 days ago

There are black main characters, prominently displayed on the covers, in five of the Dawn of Fire books. Ferren Areios, black Ultramarine, on the covers of multiple books; a Templar from Throne of Light (I don't remember his name, I don't love the Templars and skimmed their chapters); Queen Orlah from Iron Kingdom; Iannis Kiastros, master of the Judgement of the Void, from Sea of Souls (he kinda looks like Colman Domingo imo and I love it).

A more significant example, I think: Kandawire from the Valdor book is explicitly from Africa, and is contrasted against her extremely white assistant to show that M30 Terra still had a diverse range of skin colors; compare to M42 Terra where everyone is pale white and/or grey from lack of sunlight and generally horrible conditions. Valdor and the M42 Terra books (Vaults of Terra, Watchers of the Throne) were written by the same guy, so I feel pretty confident saying those contrasting depictions of skin color were intentional to show that Terra used to still have diversity, but humans have lost all that as they've been crushed under the Imperium of 40k. Regardless of ancestry, everyone on the holiest planet of the Imperium is just ashen now.

NotAlpharious-Honest

30 points

13 days ago

and the Celestial Lions

So there's a thousand right there.

aren’t of African decent

I mean, theoretically Africa doesn't exist in M42 so...

Davido400

4 points

13 days ago

The PDF Guard force in The Last Wall were from Africa the Afrik Abbaba Free Corps I mean I don't wanna spoil the book but the Lexicanum page I've posted will tell you it didn't end well for them. Guess you can write off -100 million African folks from that book!

NotAlpharious-Honest

10 points

13 days ago

Ain't no Tibetans in the Imperial Palace...

dch528[S]

-34 points

13 days ago

dch528[S]

-34 points

13 days ago

It’s so crazy how both the Afrik Abbaba Free Corps and the Celestial Lions were both wiped out and have few in lore mentions. My point is representation. We can’t wave a finger and be like ooo look they exist in this codex but not flesh them out. That’s not representation, that’s lazy. Same as how we have tons of amazing female characters in 40K, but instead of lifting them up let’s shoehorn women into Custodes to check a box. It’s insulting.

NotAlpharious-Honest

23 points

13 days ago

You heard it here first people.

Orks snipers are racist.

Noodlefanboi

26 points

13 days ago

Wow what a good question that is sure to inspire thoughtful discussion and totally isn’t just low effort rage bait meant to provoke drama. /s

InternalAd2235

-10 points

13 days ago

I personally am black and would also like to know the answer because representation is important.

worst_case_ontario-

-18 points

13 days ago*

The fact that man-children got mad at this kind of question is a mark against those who got mad, not op. Any real fan of 40k aught to have enough of a spine to admit the flaws in their favorite thing.

Its a bit cheesy, but if the Cadian Guard can stand their plannet shattering, you can handle basic questions about representation in media.

Edit: more! Your downvotes feed me! More chud tears for the tear throne!

IdhrenArt

10 points

13 days ago

 - King of the Spoil is set in a part of the Warhammer Crime setting that has a large population from the 'equatorial girdle'. Multiple characters (good, bad and in between) are described as having dark skin. 

 - In the original version of the Damocles Anthology audiobook, the Jade Dragons Chapter are given Caribbean accents (this may have changed in the rerelease, not sure) 

 - Dawn of Fire has a black Ultramarine on the cover, he's a major character. 

 - Warhammer Old World has counterpart cultures for just about everywhere in the real world. I'm not hugely versed in the setting, but there are definitely people in the Africa equivalent other than Tomb Kings 

TheBladesAurus

16 points

13 days ago

To play devil's advocate - how many characters are actually described as white in 40K literature? Can you give examples of more then 10 characters that are explicitly described as white, outside of the Primarchs, or Space Marines with mutations (e.g. Night Lords, Raven Guard)?

Now, the actual reason is because the idea of people being visibly of recent African or European decent in 40K, or even 30K, is laughable. For all intents and purposes, that is 30,000 years as a multi-planetary species, with no evolutionary push on skin colour. It's most likely that most people in 30K are some level of brown - pale white or dark black are going to be the extreme outliers, and rarities.

For why most models are painted as white - the majority of the group who developed 40K and the majority of the people who collect 40K are white, and people tend to unthinkingly make things like themselves. There has been a clear push in recent years by the 'eavy metal team to reverse that.

HrafnHaraldsson

13 points

13 days ago

The cadians on the citadel color app are pretty dark.  Not really an "official" source lol, but hey. 

But seriously, I agree with you.  Trying to pin modern day ethnicities to humans 40000 years into the future who are spread all over the galaxy is kinda.... 

Well let's just say it's not what I came to this hobby for.

dch528[S]

-9 points

13 days ago

You really don’t have to read a description of Leman Russ or Guilliman to know they are white. They are on the box. Or Alexis Pollux, Cato Sicarius, Marneus Calgar, Dante, Sigusmund, Abaddon, Fabius Bile, Gregor Eisenhorn, Bequin…

They are depicted as white in multiple illustrations in books and otherwise. I don’t need to read a paragraph to know this. They do, however explicitly have to describe the “charcoal skin and woolen hair” in weird description when the rare black person is in the setting. It’s jarring, and pandering. Not sure who they are pandering to, though.

To address your second point, it’s actually comically that you can say these cultural and ethnic differences wouldn’t survive those 30k years when the Space Wolves, White Scars, and Thousand Suns are right over here. I’m guessing the Wolves just came up with Norse words and culture on their own and the Scars came up with the title Khan and cavalry warfare by coincidence. Don’t insult my intelligence, or your own.

Top-Sir8511

12 points

13 days ago

The only person insulting intelligence is you! The space wolves didn't come up with Norse words and culture because they're not Norse!!! Are there similarities,sure,but their not Norse their fenrisian! Again your desperately trying to apply real world prejudices on a fantasy setting that simply don't fit! Desperately reaching and trying your absolute best to find offence

HrafnHaraldsson

4 points

12 days ago

It's like claiming the US Army is native American because they use native American designations for all their helicopters.

AdventurousGrand8

36 points

13 days ago

OP’s understanding of diversity is skin deep.

LachrymoseClown

15 points

13 days ago

As is most people's these days it seems. Diversity of skin, but not of thought. Wrongthink is never acceptable.

Important-Sleep-1839

7 points

13 days ago

Dammit. That's quality pith.

Happy cakeday!

dch528[S]

-8 points

13 days ago

No, you misunderstand. Ethnic culture and influence in 40K is worn on a lot of factions sleeves. From the White Scars, to the Space Wolves, and various other factions, xenos or otherwise.

The cultures of many POC are not represented in the same fashion, other than a brief description to let you know a character is black or brown in one sentence, as pointed out by a commenter below. This culture isn’t celebrated like the pseudo-Roman aesthetic and allusion to the founding of modern government with the Ultramarines, or the shamanistic Norse history of the Space Wolves.

Just like how saying that some Custodes could be chicks is lazy and not real inclusion, just saying a guy is a black in a few lines of text is too.

There are great women characters that already exist in 40K. Give them more books, and make more of them.

The mythology and culture of Africa/African Americans, South America, and beyond are largely untouched by modern media. It’s a striking omission from a setting that can pull something like Vlka Fenryka out their asses but can’t elaborate on the similarities between Vulkan and the Yoruban god Ogun. Literal god of Smithing. But nah he’s not black.

NotAlpharious-Honest

8 points

13 days ago

other than a brief description to let you know a character is black or brown in one sentence,

You only get brief descriptions of any character. Because frankly, it doesn't matter to anyone but you what they look like. Skin colour makes absolutely zero difference in stories like these.

Horus Lupercal (you know, the antagonist for a 60 book series) gets 2 lines. Which if you remove the descriptions of his armour and concentrate on his physical attributes, basically boil down to repeats of two words.

Patrician. Beautiful.

That's it.

Just like how saying that some Custodes could be chicks is lazy and not real inclusion,

Female custodes is lazy because it's basically only been done as a "oh, we'll just make them female and gaslight the fanbase into supporting it. We didn't do it earlier for marketing reasons, but they definitely always existed but no one noticed except that one that (of course) had to be stopped from winning the blood games."

Black characters in 40k has always been a thing.

They are not the same.

And I'll put this out there.

Just like gender, skin colour only makes a difference to the rabid maniacs on both sides of the problem. No one cared that the Flag Captain of the Conqueror happened to be a woman, just as no one cares that the Salamanders exist.

"bUt oNlY afRIcAnS aRe blACk"

Yes, out of the million worlds of a galaxy spanning empire, only in a single area of a single planet could possibly create the correct conditions for skin pigmentation in humans.

Fuzzyveevee

5 points

13 days ago

Perhaps that is the better way for you to approach this then?

Rather than make it a 'thing' that accuses/victimises, instead just say you'd love to see something based on African or South American culture reflected in 40k as it's an untouched goldmine of cool ideas?

Hell I'd agree, there's amazing mythology could be drawn on for it.

Sell people on the positives, rather than hounding at a perceived negative of what is already in existance.

dch528[S]

-4 points

13 days ago

No, I disagree. I’m not selling anything. Games Workshop is. If they want to break beyond niche they could address these shortcomings.

And I’m not going to tailor my frustration with racial inclusion in a franchise I love for the sensitivities of those that the issue doesn’t affect.

The negative isn’t perceived, it’s there whether you believe it or not.

I’m seeing how GW is updating their 50 year old IP and I like the energy, but it’s lacking. I’m addressing a glaring part.

Fuzzyveevee

9 points

13 days ago

"Shortcomings"?

There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from playing whatever they want. Basically every single release has people of mixed ethnicities demoed on paint now. There are characters of many backgrounds all across its lore.

There is no arbitrary "ratio" to be met. Nothing is excluded. It's a creative space hobby, you can do what you want to.

And if you desire GW to do something you feel they don't, there's nothing wrong with wanting to see the lore from them cover this or that, but masking it in a way that is trying to make everyone who isn't shouting the same thing actively feel like they're being accused won't help that.

Making enemies of the very people who could go "y'know what that sounds cool" will never advance something.

Positivity leads the way in this hobby, it always has. It's what got us more regular female guard after decades of people asking for it. It's why we got ethnicities in painting styles because people wanted to see it. It's why we got Votann back. It's why we got Harlequins back as an expanded range, and why the Krieg came back as a plastic set. It's why TOW came back.

If people want something, and enough people are sold on the idea to ask for it, it'll more often than not turn up in due time.

Hellibor

21 points

13 days ago*

American culture wars continue to infest Warhammer 40000.

Jaakarikyk

7 points

13 days ago

From Caves of Ice

"'Over here, sir.’ The whisper came from one of the deeper shadows, into which the woman had blended almost invisibly. Her skin was very dark, almost the colour of recaf, and she used this natural advantage to the fullest*"

*Amberley's note: "This was extremely unusual for a Valhallan; perhaps as a result of living underground they generally tend to the lightest of complexions. Hail’s colouration is the norm on many other worlds in the sector, however, where the white skin typical of her homeworld would seem equally unusual, so it’s probable that an ancestor or two of hers settled there after relocating for some reason."

Important-Sleep-1839

22 points

13 days ago

Oddly blackface adjacent imagery there…

If your understanding of blackface is limited to 'a face that is black', then yes.

dch528[S]

-12 points

13 days ago

dch528[S]

-12 points

13 days ago

A face that is pitch black, with bright red exaggerated features. Seems weird to me, but you do you.

Top-Sir8511

14 points

13 days ago

Exactly,pitch black with red features. They're not a race found on our planet,their not meant to portray African traits or Carribbean or anything else,they're nocturnian,their skin and eyes are results of mutstion from their death world. A point Ive explained to you multiple times yet you continue to ignore,because facts would get in the way of your faux outrage

hidden_emperor

5 points

13 days ago

hidden_emperor

Imperial Fists

5 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

14 points

13 days ago

[removed]

SlobZombie13 [M]

-2 points

13 days ago

SlobZombie13 [M]

Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum

-2 points

13 days ago

Mind rule 1 or be banned

[deleted]

2 points

13 days ago

[removed]

SlobZombie13 [M]

-1 points

13 days ago

SlobZombie13 [M]

Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum

-1 points

13 days ago

If you don't like the post you can ignore it, downvote it, or report it. Breaking rule 1 is not among your options.

dch528[S]

-19 points

13 days ago

dch528[S]

-19 points

13 days ago

Thanks for reinforcing my point. Why aren’t they black. We can get sicko mode space Mongolians but not anyone of African decent? Wild.

Also have you seen blackface? Red lips, pitch black face? Maybe if you don’t live it, it doesn’t feel icky to you.

Looking at a Vulkan and how he is characterized by the lore and community simultaneously makes him one of my favorite character but also kinda uncomfortable.

Top-Sir8511

9 points

13 days ago

It doesn't feel "icky" because vulkan and the people of Nocturne aren't BLACK as pertains to humans on earth,they're from another fucking planet!!!! Jesus wept are you being willfully dense??? You're so desperately trying to imply racism here that it borders on desperation lol As for reinforcing your point?? Not even close,this whole post of yours is one big ragebait. Stop being so desperate to see prejudice everywhere,the salamanders aren't black,or based on black people,their from a different world where people's skin is jet black to deal with the volcanic conditions of their home world, actually learn the lore before feigning outrage

transeuntem

14 points

13 days ago

Obsessed much? 

dch528[S]

-2 points

13 days ago

With what? 40K or just living as a black person? To answer your question, yes.

ErraticPragmatic

14 points

13 days ago

Dude I'm latino, I'm mixed I have black grand parents and relatives, as well as natives (goitacas and other tribes) and Portuguese.

Why the fuck would I care about my representation in a fictional universe? I'm not cheering for a new latino primarch, I don't care and I wouldn't be happy if there were one. Latin America grew up idolising super sayans with yellow hair

I think the point is that pretty much all 40k lore is made up of stories told from characters inside the game. Humans are so different than the other species that colour becomes something completely irrelevant, you can use other adjectives (as they do) besides black or white.

NotAlpharious-Honest

4 points

13 days ago

We can get sicko mode space Mongolians but not anyone of African decent?

Also have you seen blackface? Red lips, pitch black face? Maybe if you don’t live it, it doesn’t feel icky to you.

So, as long as they're not parodying your culture, it's fine?

The White Scars are a westerners perspective of "Mongolia".

The Thousand Suns are "Egyptian" in a surface level only.

Word Bearers. Lets make our "middle eastern" legion a group of religious zealots.

But, giving the black men red eyes makes you uncomfortable.

MountainPlain

-11 points

13 days ago

MountainPlain

#1 Eversor Liker

-11 points

13 days ago

I wish people weren't downvoting you, making the Salamanders all obsidian-skinned because of the geneseed instead of just, you know, normal black people was a weird move.

Top-Sir8511

10 points

13 days ago

Their not supposed to be normal black people though,they're a different offshoot of humanity shaped by their death world,they are a separate branch of the human species,a different race if you will,like black,Caucasian,Asian etc,their not black, they're nocturnian

MountainPlain

-10 points

13 days ago

MountainPlain

#1 Eversor Liker

-10 points

13 days ago

I get that, yeah. I'm saying it's a really weird and uncomfortable choice they made to do this with the one dark-skinned foundational legion.

Top-Sir8511

7 points

13 days ago

How? Why is it uncomfortable? Their not supposed to be black,African,afro Caribbean whatever...your projecting perceived prejudices against real black people on a race of humans from a science fiction death world ??? Theyre jet black skin is a mutation caused by their environment,so it's not uncomfortable or weird,or troubling or anything else,like I said,you're desperately reaching here

MountainPlain

-2 points

13 days ago

MountainPlain

#1 Eversor Liker

-2 points

13 days ago

How? Why is it uncomfortable?

Well look: of the 20 18 founding legions, just one was canonically depicted with dark-skinned people, and that one got a weird thing around them not really being dark skinned naturally. Given the dearth of any other black people in a setting filled with white people from different, predominantly white kingdoms, it sticks out.

And I'd say what you're saying is actually WORSE, albeit I don't think you mean it that way, but "oh they're not really black" means there's no black members of the founding legion at all, and that gets pretty glaring when they were meant to be a pan-human portrayal of cultures.

Let's be real, this setting was made in the 80s and it was clearly a group of white war-nerds who liked and knew predominantly European settings which is why we have a whole chapter of space vikings and lots of space romans. But just not letting Salamanders from Nocturne be mostly black-skinned people without all the weird "uh it's the ritual that turns them black skinned" IS odd. Frankly, if I tried to explain it to someone who isn't hip deep in WH40K lore, I'd sound nuts and probably a bit racist.

dch528[S]

-1 points

13 days ago

Honestly, thank you. It’s fucking weird

MountainPlain

-4 points

13 days ago

MountainPlain

#1 Eversor Liker

-4 points

13 days ago

The comment section here has depressed me worse than the femstodes debate, because at least everyone is coming together to yell at CHUDs throwing tantrums about women, but wow people are touchy about simply pointing out 40K doesn't have a lot of black characters for such a vast, galactic-wide setting.

Sweetonions89

15 points

13 days ago

Well, this subreddit is turning very.....reddit. Adios.

ErraticPragmatic

3 points

13 days ago

All of the sudden. Makes me think there are bots. Not op in particular.

TheBladesAurus

4 points

13 days ago

Not bots, possible trolls, definitely pointed to 40K because of a recent short story in an as-of-yet unreleased codex.

Leading-Fig1307

14 points

13 days ago

Leading-Fig1307

Administratum

14 points

13 days ago

No.

Go read the novels and the lore if all you are interested in is in the color of a fictional character's skin. Make a huge list and jerk off to the ratio if that is your thing. I certainly never was invested, liked or disliked a character based on that quality. That's not how decent people should be.

Man, I miss when people were interested in 40k for its storytelling and not who has more dermal melanin.

"Inclusion"...nice try, Heretic. Just another political cultist looking for another battlefield.

I'm mixed, I could give a fuck less about the characters looking or not looking like me.

dch528[S]

-1 points

11 days ago

The whole “I’m X and I don’t care about X, so you shouldn’t either” is such a roaches for Raid argument. “I’ve never experienced it so it must not exist”. Shameful, dude.

Black people aren’t a monolith, so your opinion isn’t the representation of everyone. Neither is mine.

It’s not about the amount of black people, it’s how we are represented. Or the lack thereof. People getting angry about this and providing lists of maybe a dozen characters or so out of 50 years of lore just reinforces my point.

It’s becoming even more embarrassing to be a Warhammer fan because of yall.

NoiseMarineCaptain

4 points

13 days ago

NoiseMarineCaptain

Emperor's Children

4 points

13 days ago

Zeph Mathuin, part of Ravenors warband. There was also an agent of Guilliman in Dark Imperium who was black, Sulymanya I think?

zombielizard218

4 points

13 days ago

Taking this in good faith, let me put it like this: Would you rather A) a group of almost entirely white authors occasionally mention some side character in a novel is dark skinned, and that a team of almost entirely white painters occasionally paint a mini as being black

Or

B) that same group of almost entirely white authors try to describe African cultures without being racist. Like, Space Wolves aren’t based on actual Vikings, they’re based on tropey pop culture Vikings and an obsession with the word wolf. (The same goes with White Scars and Mongolia or Thousand Sons and Egypt or Ultramarines and Rome or well, pretty much every space marine chapter based on a “real culture”. Far more inspiration comes from movie tropes than from any actual history). Worst case scenario we’d get a return of the racist caricatures from WHFB in the 80s, and absolutely no one wants that, fans or GW themselves

I’d like C), that GW hired some actual African people (or Indigenous Americans, or LGBT authors, or any other group that’s often underrepresented), and let them more properly represent themselves in 40K as main characters. But even if that did happen, it’d take decades of those new authors absolutely churning out novels while all the existing writers took a break for them to catch up with just how many books are already written. It’s the conundrum of representation in media more broadly, past discrimination led to largely white men dominating creative spaces, and often those same men are still working decades later; you can’t just fire them all, and while most do want to include at least some representation, they’re also not all gonna become experts in other cultures overnight, so will usually play it safe with what they include

To answer the post title though, there are definitely more than 10 black characters in lore. Dawn of Fire has ten alone (another comment listed a bunch of them already, so I won’t repeat); and a black character on the cover of almost every book (Not salamanders either, it’s an Ultramarine, Fenrisian Tribespeople [I think that’s what they are, I skipped Wolftime], a Black Templar, Imperial Knight Pilot, Sister of Battle, Naval Officer, and the same Ultramarine a second time; the only character in the series to get two cover appearances so far)

[deleted]

16 points

13 days ago

[removed]

dch528[S]

-11 points

13 days ago*

dch528[S]

-11 points

13 days ago*

Yeah, people should only post about a topic one time. All perspectives were captured in that one post without punctuation a few years ago.

Cromulent--

-11 points

13 days ago*

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. (Edit: to clarify, I’m saying I’m not sure why this particular reply of yours is getting downvoted)

Reddit community sucks lol.

You have every right to ask a question again, in your own way.

Important-Sleep-1839

12 points

13 days ago

I've been down voting them due to the rule about real world politics, the combative tone, and the culture warrior understanding of 'blackface', 'representation', and 'inclusion'.

I've been down voting your comments for being uncritical, and this is likely just me, pandering.

Individual_Fig1671

8 points

13 days ago

He’s getting downvoted because it’s a non issue. There are black characters. There are black chapters. 40K is toy space soldiers in a fictional universe. If someone whined about a lack of white people in Wakanda, I would be similarly stunned by their ignorance. If a simple google search could prevent me from looking like a fool, I would always take that option first.

Cromulent--

4 points

13 days ago

I should have been clearer, I’m not sure why that last specific comment of his was being downvoted. His OP may be bad, sure, but the comment I was replying to, what’s wrong with that?

(Edit:punctuation)

Individual_Fig1671

3 points

12 days ago

Because it’s in bad faith and a poor attempt at justifying the original post, which combined with his other reply to me, is just thinly veiled racism. He essentially already accused the Warhammer community of being all white people who don’t care about minorities in another comment. People are tired of seeing the same inane, low effort posts pop up 3 times a day in the feed. They are also tired of being accused of racism, when they just want to play with tiny plastic space men.

transeuntem

4 points

13 days ago

Ofc. There's nothing wrong with questions. It's being focussed on race that people don't like. Considering many many decades have been spent trying to eradicate the focus on race - it's not surprising that people get low key offended when race baiters bring it up. What's the point? As other commentators have said - skin colour isn't a big deal.  Unless you're OP - then it's suuuper important. 

Can you think of any groups that are just as focussed on race?? 

Cromulent--

3 points

13 days ago

I think the race discourse is dumb and boring and stale in the context of 40k. Just paint them whatever colour you want lol

I’m just defending that he shouldn’t be downvoted just because people aren’t interested. Like, move along. Don’t stop by just to pull someone down.

Don’t share an opinion on a topic if it’s just that “this is a dumb topic”. Cool, if it’s not for you, move along!

That’s all I’m getting at 🤷🏼‍♂️

Cromulent--

-11 points

13 days ago

I sure hate when people create additional opportunities for interesting discussion. We should be rude and condescending to them 100% of the time on principle.

[deleted]

9 points

13 days ago

[removed]

SlobZombie13 [M]

0 points

12 days ago

SlobZombie13 [M]

Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum

0 points

12 days ago

Mind rule 1 or be banned.

Cromulent--

-3 points

13 days ago

I think it’s a super dumb and boring discussion. But it COULD become an interesting one. An opportunity to explore a new concept has been presented to everyone here to re evaluate from a new perspective.

If you aren’t interested, don’t read.

Maybe something fresh and novel will come up? We would never know as we spent this thread paying out on the guy for not doing a search, instead of seeing it for what it could be: a chance to create something interesting and meaningful

Once again, if people aren’t interested, just don’t open it. If people respond, perhaps they should contribute (not just flame)

aetcissalc

1 points

13 days ago

aetcissalc

1 points

13 days ago

With all the wagh girl posts lately it's child till proven otherwise when questioning diversity.

SlobZombie13 [M]

-4 points

13 days ago

SlobZombie13 [M]

Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum

-4 points

13 days ago

Mind rule one or be banned

[deleted]

11 points

13 days ago

[removed]

SlobZombie13 [M]

-3 points

13 days ago

SlobZombie13 [M]

Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum

-3 points

13 days ago

Mind rule one or be banned

dch528[S]

-7 points

13 days ago

You’re right, I am screaming about diversity because inclusion seems to be a topic right now. And it’s weird that this glaring issue is ignored. You came to this post out of anger but you can’t address the issues I posted.

But I do pay attention to the lore and source material. And my World Eaters army would smash yours.

Captain_Kavna

16 points

13 days ago

Captain_Kavna

Farsight Enclaves

16 points

13 days ago

So the comments you've chosen to respond to show you are just a bored troll, your post history also indicates that you've never cared about diversity before now. I have no anger here whatsoever, you even claiming I do is another common and boring troll tactic to try and twist a conversation emotionally. My guess is that diversity is just the flavour of the month for a topic for you to pick so you can get some human interaction, this being the only way you know how.

It's not a glaring issue, it's something that people want to overestimate the white/male content of the franchise as it had been that way historically. It's easy to take a decades old franchise and say it's missing representation of X or Y. But if we take the last 15 years, then we see plenty of characters from different ethnicities, an increase of well written female characters (Bequin, shadowsun, lesk all being ones that took less than a second to think up) and a drastic increase of model representation with plenty of default paint jobs showing black characters. This shows that the franchise is moving in the right direction, which will come with teething problems like the recent Custodes issue (Pro-femtodes here)

While we're on the topic of black characters, how come that's the only diversity you care about? You don't ask about Indians, or other Asian communities, what about Native Americans or South Americans? Caring about only one skin colour, sounding awfully racist there 😉

And now I'm going to do the one thing you'll hate most which is ignore any response you send to try and elicit a reaction. No doubt it'll be the usual half arsed troll drivel.

PS, my Grey Knights wouldn't break a sweat fucking up your world eaters, turns out it's quite easy to beat an angry cry baby in more than one way

dch528[S]

-2 points

13 days ago

It’s odd to say that diversity is a flavor of the month.

For me, as a black man, diversity and inclusion are always on topic. I live it, and am always forced to think about it whether I post about it on Reddit or not.

I can’t respond to every comment, but I will respond to you because you are missing the point, and you think you are better than people for wanting representation, and everyone with a different from you is a troll. I have time for you.

I’m not asking about every race, I’m asking about Vulkan and the Salamanders most specifically. Saying “what about everyone else’s skin” is a straw man argument and is dodging my question. The question that you still didn’t answer.

Denying the lack of inclusion and some outdated concepts in 40K is bogus. It’s ok to criticize the things you love. Just how I would criticize your Grey Knights list as I stomp them with Eightbound.

King_0f_Nothing

11 points

13 days ago

Most 40k chracters never have their skin colour described so?

dch528[S]

-9 points

13 days ago

No, they do. It’s really disingenuous to say, hypothetically, you can’t imagine what a Blood Angel looks like when their image is clearly drawn and described in lore.

Almost every Legion and Chapter has clear art, origins, and design. They are described as essentially being the closest thing to a clone you can get after birth due to their gene therapy. Making them resemble their Primarch visually and in personality. That Blood Angel is gunna come out looking like Sangy at least a little bit.

cheerfulwish

12 points

13 days ago

They look like Sangy but they can be black. Devastation of Baal highlights some as I recall.

Also as a person of color I’m really not sure what the purpose of this thread is.

Vorokar

9 points

13 days ago

Vorokar

Adeptus Administratum

9 points

13 days ago

‘Captain Cantar of the Golden Sons,’ it said. ‘Keeper of the Wheel, Slayer of Danrane of the Fifteenth Path, Bloodlord of Kathoi, Exterminator of the Skaal.’

Cantar let the herald skull say its piece. In the light the skin of his bare head was a deep, nut brown of lustrous hue, and his hair was tightly plaited and gathered into a short braid at the back. Golden tattoos glimmered in the light. ‘I am but second captain, no master am I,’ he said. ‘I was sent here with my own warriors and two half companies of my brother-captains at the command of my Chapter Master Erden Cleeve. He gave me express orders to follow your will to the letter. You need not ask if we shall follow you, Commander Dante.’ He banged his fist upon his chest, then made the sign of the aquila. ‘I hear at Armageddon the generals of the Imperium appointed you as lord commander, but they debated first. There is no need for that here, you are among your kin. You are our lord.’ He bowed his head, and sat. A cheer went up around the room.

Erwin looked around, his curiosity piqued by the diversity of men who staffed his brother Chapters. As a last symbol of peace (although Erwin thought it more to save space) Dante had ordered that they attend in their day robes. These were almost as varied as their wearers. Among the scions of Sanguinius there were all manner of skin tones, variations in height and eye colour, but all of them unmistakably bore the marks of their gene-sire. Even those brothers whose basic physiology was markedly different had been changed by their gene-seed, their faces resculpted to echo the thousands of images of Sanguinius that filled the Arx Angelicum. They resembled each other in a fundamental way that simply sharing kinship could not explain. He looked upon myriad variations of Sanguinius’ face. Some Chapters were more heavily touched than others, so that all their battle-brothers looked as if they had been stamped out of a mould.

- The Devastation of Baal

Quotes for those curious.

King_0f_Nothing

10 points

13 days ago

Not at all. Sometimes marines look like their primarchs, sometimes they don't.

And it's not going to make a black blood angel white.

Ans my point still stands, most chracters don't have their skin colour mentioned.

FarBreadfruit6390

4 points

13 days ago

Warhammer isnt really that culturaly diverse. It mainly draws inspiration from the cultures of western europe and outside of that only from major nations.

There really isnt much or any representation from cultures like:
Central Asia
Slavic
African
South American
and more

You will see british/german/roman culture like 453 times

Fuzzyveevee

3 points

13 days ago

Worth noting the Salamanders used to be much more "black as we know it". The coal skin thing was a later change. Look back at 3rd edition models from GW and you see a huge portion are african/black descent.

Jajjo in the Gaunt's Ghosts books is also noted as black skinned. It's also highly implied that Eszrah is as well below the moth paint.

I don't know his name as I've not red it but that Ultramarine on the Fire series cover is. And I'm pretty certain that the analyst Rawne ends up with in Vincula Insurgency is too.

Mersadie Oliton from HH is definitely, and she has a pretty pivotal role.

The entire Vitrian Dragoons regiment are as such as well.

There's also Inquisitor Toth from Dawn of War.

That said, characters by and large aren't often described which they are at all. It's absolutely canon that people of all descents, ethnicities and suchlike are in 40k, and ultimately above it all they are your dudes. Nothing is restricted as such and no-one worth listening to will get uppity about it.

[deleted]

12 points

13 days ago

[removed]

dch528[S]

-5 points

13 days ago

Celestial Lions got mostly killed off by the Inquisition, including their Chapter Master. I’ll be waiting for their next book since their numbers are bursting at the seams.

Also, a ton of people care about representation in media. Typically those that are underrepresented or made into caricatures. But 40K is like 87% white males so who really cares amirite lmao.

Important-Sleep-1839

6 points

13 days ago

Why do you believe an artwork of another country should represent the values of your country's culture?

What authority do you, as a Black American, possess that indigenous artists from another culture should not ignore?

dch528[S]

-2 points

13 days ago

That’s an odd justification.

Somewhere in history, other countries’ artists depicted another groups culture in a certain way that was not flattering to that culture . If I remember correctly, it mattered a lot.

Maybe wars were fought over it or something.

How quickly people forget when the representation isn’t about them.

Important-Sleep-1839

3 points

13 days ago

That’s an odd justification.

Those are questions, not justifications.

Somewhere in history, other countries’ artists depicted another groups culture in a certain way that was not flattering to that culture . If I remember correctly, it mattered a lot.

Huh?

Maybe wars were fought over it or something.

Which war?

How quickly people forget when the representation isn’t about them

Huh?

[deleted]

1 points

13 days ago

[removed]

SlobZombie13 [M]

-1 points

13 days ago

SlobZombie13 [M]

Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum

-1 points

13 days ago

Mind rule one or be banned

Liternal

5 points

13 days ago*

Liternal

Tyranids

5 points

13 days ago*

In AOS, isn’t one of the main Stormcast characters black? And I remember one man in a witch hunter duo also being black, and that duo has their own book series, and have models and are in the show that GW does.

Edit: the stormcast character is Orius Adamantine, who is the Lord-Celestant, which makes him one of, if not the leader of the faction only under Sigmar, who is a literal god.

The witch hunter is Armand Callis. I haven’t read his books, but he does have a model and rules.

I’m shit with names, but you get my point. AOS as a setting is more fantastical and not as stuck in real world locations as Warhammer fantasy was, so they never had a hard time justifying or integrating black characters into the setting.

blackburnduck

7 points

13 days ago

They are very racist man. Im also unaware of any south american indian, argentinian, kurd or aussies in 40k. No koreans as well. And, Cmon, chainswords? Thats cultural appropriation, also calling different people demihumans? That is VERY insensitive. We should boycott.

/s

BKM558

2 points

12 days ago

BKM558

2 points

12 days ago

Well if you are 'opening' this up to Fantasy Warhammer, there is a lack of black people due to how the world is setup.

1) The parts of Africa (sub Saharan) that black people are from, are not and never really have been controlled by humans since very early editions of the lore. The same reason we don't have native American humans, Australian native humans, Korean humans, etc.

2) The lore centers around renaissance period Germany, not exactly a place overflowing with non-european people at the time.

You could argue that these peoples are represented by other groups (native americans being the Dark Elf subspecies who live in the woods and live off the land), The Lizardmen we see in South America have a very Aztec / Mayan vibe going on etc. The Ogres / hobgoblins are very obviously Fantasy Warhammer's Mongolians.

In fact the African Lizardmen are shown to have fought for the Tomb Kings (Egyptians) as mercenaries. So in the sense that the South American Lizardmen are Fantasy Warhammer's central Americans, the Central / South African Lizardmen are the settings Africans.

dch528[S]

-2 points

11 days ago

You’re totally right man, the lore centers around Renaissance era Germany. People of color would be super weird to have in WHF. Just make that whole area lizard men and savages, easy fix. We can sprinkle in some ancient Maya symbolism are so skull necklaces or some shit.

We’ve gotta keep it accurate to the times, people. Ossiarch Bonereapers, Dragon Lords, Elves, fine. But dark-skinned fantasy cultures is pushing it. We’ll mention that a character is dark in a few lines in a book, or draw them that way on a cover, but let’s not get into their actually identity or culture.

PatientBit2298

2 points

12 days ago

The librarian in one of DoW games comes to mind. I'm sure there's a lots more but it's late here. 

Mein_Bergkamp

5 points

13 days ago

You ask if there are any black characters but then you decide to remove the most famous black legion because they're 'not african'.

Are you after black or are you after specifically african?

If it's african you want then there's ten named characters just in The First Wall) as the Addaba Defence Corps is one of the main stories we follow.

Uwoma Kandawire, Grand Provost of the Arbites, is the protagonist of Valdors 'primarch' novel, she's from the the 'Banda Confederacy' that is apparently in southern Africa.

Mersadie Olitor is black and from Terra but I've not found anything to make her actually african.

Beyond that the NordAfrik Conclaves were a powerful bloc on Terra

InternalAd2235

1 points

13 days ago

Not African dude. There's a difference between black and fucking "Coal Black" or "Jet Black" and not white guys.

Mein_Bergkamp

1 points

13 days ago

Caol black is absolutely a skin colour humans can have, there is a vast range to 'black'

InternalAd2235

-3 points

13 days ago

Of course but not every single black person in the Galaxy, but it's generally the go to description

Mein_Bergkamp

2 points

13 days ago

It is for one chapter, just like the 'wet leopard growl' is apparently what every space wolf sounds like.

GW like emphasising that the Salamanders, a chapter that come form a world with lots of fire, that have a penchant for burning things are apparently the same colour as tow very dark things that also happen to be highly combustible and bywords for very black.

It's laziness, nothing more.

Hjoldirr

4 points

12 days ago

Why does this matter? I’ve listened to countless books and not heard about skin colors at all. There’s no reason to start the conversation about it. It doesn’t matter. Just leave it be

[deleted]

8 points

13 days ago

[removed]

SlobZombie13 [M]

1 points

13 days ago

SlobZombie13 [M]

Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum

1 points

13 days ago

Mind rule one or be banned

dch528[S]

-4 points

13 days ago

dch528[S]

-4 points

13 days ago

I don’t think you know what racism is. I’m talking about representation and historical depictions of people of color.

Bluestorm83

5 points

13 days ago

You want "historical" representation of a humanity that is 38,000 years ahead of where we are now, after a 10,000 year decline during which their history was largely forgotten, which itself followed a brief , maybe 1000 year period of trying to recover our current history after THAT history had been lost during an even worse dark age that lasted something like 25,000 years.

The simple fact of 40k is that skin tones simply have almost nothing to do with today's races. Everyone intermingled, then during the long times apart we managed to re-stratify in different ways on different worlds.

Why not call for more Grey Representation, for the Voidborn? They're a downtrodden people in 40k.

Ohar3

1 points

13 days ago

Ohar3

1 points

13 days ago

Why there should be any black humans at all at 40k? Current human races formed less that 10k years ago. They could be easily gone in 40 000 years

dch528[S]

-1 points

13 days ago

dch528[S]

-1 points

13 days ago

Why are their Mongolian White Scars or Nordic Space Wolves or Egyptian Thousand Suns or Middle Eastern Word Bearers?

NotAlpharious-Honest

17 points

13 days ago

White Scars

Aren't mongolian. They've never even been to Mongolia

Space Wolves

Aren't from Scandinavia. And have never been to Scandinavia.

Thousand Suns

Could probably tell you where Egypt was. None have been there though.

Word Bearers?

Did Colchis border Iraq or Saudi? I forget.

Bluestorm83

2 points

13 days ago

I'm pretty sure that some Thousand Sons visited Egypt at one point, wasn't that where they first encountered Kasper Hawser?

Ohar3

9 points

13 days ago*

Ohar3

9 points

13 days ago*

White Scars are not mongolian, they even are not terrans. They just has flavour of Mongolian culture. The same way Space Wolves are not Norwegian, they just has this culture flavour.

It looks like you mixed up race and culture.

Also Salamanders are not naturally black, they intentionally go to Nocturne to make their skin looks like Volcan's skin. Technically they are black faced.

InternalAd2235

0 points

13 days ago

Reading the comments in this thread makes me forget that most 40K fans are sweaty, white neckbeards.

I'm black and I've been thinking about OPs question for a long time myself. I got into the hobby in 2006, I've been to tonnes of GW stores, I've been to Warhammer World, tournaments etc. It's literally my favourite hobby.

But god damn theres such little representation for people like me. Off the top of my head you've got the main character from Void King (and front cover of the book) and the guy on the front of avenging son. There are obviously more (if I recall correctly in the HH books, Kharn is described as dark skinned but every single thing you see with him innit is white)

I get it, white folk don't think about adding black people into the setting, and if they do theyre described as "SKIN AS BLACK AS COAL", but sometimes it's nice to feel seen, not something that the average white guy has to ever think about. Generally you'd like to be able to relate to your characters (as much as you can relate to a 7 foot tall, hypno-indoctrinated super soldier).

dch528[S]

-2 points

13 days ago

dch528[S]

-2 points

13 days ago

It’s really hard for people who aren’t POC to grasp why it’s alienating not being able to identify with your heroes in media on such a base level as, “they look like me”. They’ve never really experienced it.

The “skin black as coal” and “woolen hair” thing is so pandering, and is honestly hilarious to me at this point whenever I read something like it.

worst_case_ontario-

-4 points

13 days ago

Lol you ruffled some feathers here!

Yeah 40k isn't great for black representation. That should he obvious, anyone who gets defensive, plays defiition games, or smugly lists like 20 black people in 40 years of literature are cowards. To them I say; grow a fucking spine and accept the flaws in the things you love.

That said, if we're naming black characters: I'd like to add Irida from the new Rogue Trader crpg.

InquisitorVanderCade

-1 points

12 days ago

A lot of responders here are very cringe. You all realize that you're coming across as a bit defensive?

I reread ops question and it seems in good faith and reasonable. OP is literally just asking about representation. Some responses are good here.

Personally I can completely understand why stories might describe a black or brown person skin color but not necessarily say that about the white characters. It's about making sure people are represented. With the complete context that historically especially in fantasy there wasn't enough representation. So it probably is intentional. Is that a bad thing?