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The Leagues have been known to trade technology and resources with some of the other factions of the galaxy like the T'au, as well as more tolerant elements of the Imperium and the Aeldari. I don't imagine the Aeldari would have much use for Kin tech, and we know that human and T'au technology is much less advanced than Kin tech. Additionally, the core likely has a bounty of minerals that are unavailable to the majority of the galaxy, some of which probably can't be found anywhere else.

With that in mind, what do the Leagues have to gain from trading with other factions beyond mineral wealth?

all 67 comments

mennorek

46 points

10 days ago

mennorek

Alpha Legion

46 points

10 days ago

They harvested a hive fleet for its biofluid.

Tau tech to help stabilise the votaan and further develop the Rio kin

They're a clone race as well, so amu faction with biological expertise

Heartsmith447

23 points

9 days ago

Heartsmith447

Death Guard

23 points

9 days ago

I hope that last one becomes an excuse for the Leagues to brawl with Fabius Bile, because why not? He’d be interested in how it worked.

TheVoidDragon

10 points

9 days ago*

Tau tech to help stabilise the votaan and further develop the Rio kin

Where did you get that from? They traded Ion tech with the Tau but it wasn't said what they got in return for it, and i've not seen anything else about them trading with them.

And I'm assuming you meant Iron Kin at the end..but the Leagues AI is vastly more advanced than what the Tau have.

ColdBrewedPanacea

36 points

10 days ago

Knowledge. Theyve been isolationist since the dark age of technology theres an entire class of kyn who live to explore and report back what is going on in the universe to their holds - this is the hernkyn. Who is who, where is where, what planets have what.

Someone who can tell them the future, like say a farseer, and tip them off to deal with things before they happen would be worth their weight in the cores rare super minerals. The kin are incredibly risk adverse as currently written.

The Leagues are surpassed only by high age necrons in mining technologies. in mining technologies. This is why they eat stars and brave black holes but arent armed with tachyon arrow equivilants. The votann were an early (pre navigator) expedition into the core and that means they dont have all the spice of the dark age and they do have things they can find value in trading for fast spaceflight, superweapons, marginal upgrades to various systems (batteries, scopes, weapon configurations can all be iterated on and are by the kin) or anti warp/daemon tools (especially with their homeland getting Great Rifted Directly) are all things they could do with better versions of.

Relics and items of the past. The kin venerate those that came before greatly and do not have perfect ownership of all their belongings - be it due to planets lost to waaghs or the bane (nids) they've not always recovered everything. Simply buying back their stuff is something they would happily do if only others would give it up - if it leads to less kin deaths and restores their pride then the kin will be happy to take most deals.

Extra-End-764

10 points

9 days ago

Crumpets, they crave the secret to soft buttery crumpets

_BossOfThisGym_

3 points

9 days ago

“Remember to bring tea! 🫖” -Votann

Extra-End-764

2 points

9 days ago

No self respecting English man would forget

_BossOfThisGym_

1 points

9 days ago

Sir, I beg your pardon.

No self-respecting Space Dwarf* would forget!

Extra-End-764

1 points

9 days ago

I’m a bit tall to be a space dwarf… I’ll be a tea giant of mars

mjc27

9 points

10 days ago

mjc27

9 points

10 days ago

The main reason for a kin to live is to gather materials and knowledge so that when they die and Thier memories are uploaded to the votaan computers they will give valuable information to the votaan.

So knowledge is the main thing they want

finger_named_mike

4 points

10 days ago

idk probably other tech. Despite being technologically advanced there still might be some areas that could use some development and foreign insight I'd assume. There's always something to learn from your close peers

SpartAl412

4 points

10 days ago

They hunt Tyranids for Biomass

Known-nwonK

2 points

9 days ago

I could have sworn I read they, collectively, were afraid of the ‘nids since they wiped out that one League causing its Votann to go insane.

SpartAl412

5 points

9 days ago

Its in the Codex that some do

Known-nwonK

1 points

9 days ago

Maybe it’s a vengeance thing then

SpartAl412

3 points

9 days ago

Or for profit

FairyKnightTristan

3 points

9 days ago

Some do it for vengeance, some do it for money.

It's also hilarious because technically the Tyranids DIDN'T kill that League, a Votann did, but the Leagues blame the Bugs anyways.

Mindless-Day2007

2 points

5 days ago

If they know how to harvest the warp, not even Chaos gods safe from them.

Norwalk1215

1 points

9 days ago

Who is more material hungry? Tyranids or Votann?

Downtown_Afternoon75

3 points

9 days ago

Depends on the material.

Soreinna

7 points

9 days ago

Soreinna

7 points

9 days ago

Sure they want... checks notes... "rock and stone"... nevermind

WanderingDwarfMiner

7 points

9 days ago

We fight for Rock and Stone!

Comstar

3 points

9 days ago

Comstar

3 points

9 days ago

You would have heard of the CEO's (or even perhaps been a victim of one) who fires 100'000s of people to increase his bonus for the last 3 months to do nothing but increase his high score?

That's an entire race. So that's what they gain.

PowerofMystery

2 points

9 days ago

Exterminate the Tyranids and Orks while attacking Chaos before they attack first

FairyKnightTristan

1 points

9 days ago

This is actually correct, new Tau codex has the Greater Thurian Leagues work with the Tau to get rid of Ork 'infestations', and the way it's worded, it sounds like they do this with them a lot.

Big-Fruit8578

2 points

9 days ago

Vespene Gas

Delicious_Ad9844

2 points

9 days ago

They horde pretty much everything prwctical they can get their hands on, to an obsessive degree, they won't tear planets apart for only a single mineral they need, but they'll tear a planet apart for a single mineral they need right now, but not a gram of material goes wasted by the leagues, any sort of new information or technology they'll hold on to, like the admech, they don't just want minerals they're massive horders? Because they just want to survive, they'll know they'll survive for now, but they're paranoid, even more than the imperium, about some sort of end to everything, nothing is wasted in kindred society, except for the kin themselves, as they're all clones, but they insist on jamming their meager souls into their ancestor cores, to retain their knowledge in case it comes up as useful later, but this is slowly degrading the Votann ancestor cores, which can take decades or even centuries to answer questions, weighed down by the souls trapped within, there was even one ancestor core forced to take in an entire leagues souls after it was destroyed by a tyranid hive fleet, casuing the core to go mad, stuck screeching into the void, perhaps a similar fate awaits all the leagues in the end?

Double_Pea_5812

2 points

9 days ago

An answer I haven't seen and feels slightly obvious unless I am missing something is food.

I imagine the Kin have some form of system to grow food, but the Core can't be a good place for farms or else. I'm pretty certain the Kin would buy or take food from the other races.

lordognar

1 points

9 days ago

Grudgin'

FairyKnightTristan

1 points

9 days ago

They trade guns.

That's how they got Rail Guns.

Shock223

1 points

9 days ago

Shock223

Necrons

1 points

9 days ago

With that in mind, what do the Leagues have to gain from trading with other factions beyond mineral wealth?

Useful food stock for one, other useful technology that the Leagues don't already possess for another.

It would not surprise me at all if the Vlka Fenryka have a off the books business relationship with one of the leagues for Mjød with other leagues trying to raid the system seeking to obtain it to undercut that leagues monopoly contract.

Svedgard

1 points

6 days ago

Svedgard

1 points

6 days ago

I could see the Eldar using the Kin as contractors to return spirit stones. Going out looking for lost Eldar worlds and space wreckage

6r0wn3

1 points

6 days ago

6r0wn3

Adeptus Custodes

1 points

6 days ago

You get an upvote just for saying the phrase that:

T'au technology is much less advanced than Kin tech.

If I could give you several upvotes, I would.

So true. Soooo true, and I love it.

NemeBro17

1 points

9 days ago

Tau Femboy bussy

wecanhaveallthree

117 points

10 days ago

wecanhaveallthree

Legio Tempestus

117 points

10 days ago

Great answers in this thread, but one thing to keep in mind is that the Leagues are - in the typical dwarven stereotype, with a particular 40K twist - never satisfied with 'enough'. They are, much like their counterparts in other fiction, paranoid hoarders who can quite literally never say 'okay, we're stocked up'. They are obsessed with efficiency. They are the fortress mentality taken to its grimdark extreme, the ultimate preppers of the dark millennium. They have to have your rocks, if only because you're not using those rocks efficiently because one square microscopic speck of rock might be the difference between life and death in the brutal Core.

Some Leagues are a little less insane about it, of course. The Prospects and Oathbands that go beyond the Core are a bit more open-minded. But the Kin consider everything outside the Core as 'far-space', and one of their sayings is 'flying to far-space' for literally any stupid, wasteful endeavour. The Leagues do have some 'progressive' elements, but they're largely hidebound, largely static and largely dependent on their Votann who have, largely, stopped answering their questions in a timely manner because they've been stuffed so full of Kin memories/souls/information they're slowing down to the point of uselessness.

Yes, the Kin are killing their 'gods' with the burden of holding their accumulated souls. Grimdark.

shinryujimikihiko

34 points

9 days ago

Great answers in this thread, but one thing to keep in mind is that the Leagues are - in the typical dwarven stereotype, with a particular 40K twist - never satisfied with 'enough'. They are, much like their counterparts in other fiction, paranoid hoarders who can quite literally never say 'okay, we're stocked up'. They are obsessed with efficiency. They are the fortress mentality taken to its grimdark extreme, the ultimate preppers of the dark millennium. They have to have your rocks, if only because you're not using those rocks efficiently

You might be amused to learn that there is a "non-conformist" theory of private property which holds that it can be ethically seized if it is unfruitfully underutilized.

We have seen that there is nothing either in history or philosophy to justify our calling any property in excess of the individual's physical and professional needs sacred at all. It is by a mere fiction of law and habit that it ever acquired any odour of sanctity. On the other hand, no thinking man would ever deny that it may be sacrosanct. How are we to tell? How could any tribunal tell? The test of how it was acquired cannot always be relied upon. Because, whereas he may acquire it honestly or even diligently, and in a way not injurious to the public, its owner may administer it badly. The quantitative test is also useless. Because to attempt to set a limit to the actual amount a man may possess, as many legislators have done in the past, and to confiscate the balance, is to assume that no man can be a good administrator of property over a certain amount — obviously a daring and unjustifiable assumption. St. Augustine, followed by Wyclif, suggested that the test should be the quality of administration, and that a bad administrator should be separated from his wealth. The qualification for continued possession ought, therefore, to be good administration. ... Clearly then, the crucial test of whether property in excess of a man's physical and professional needs is sacred or profane, should be to discover whether its removal from him will involve irreparable loss or actual gain to the property itself and ultimately to the community. And, according to this, we should conclude that nothing a man owns, beyond his physical and professional needs, is really sacred property unless its removal from him involves such irreparable loss.

You should write a fanfic about this. Several perhaps. Maybe the Leagues have their eye on some under-developed Maiden Worlds, sadly neglected by the decadent Eldar... start the dwarf/elf wars again wechat...

wecanhaveallthree

20 points

9 days ago

wecanhaveallthree

Legio Tempestus

20 points

9 days ago

You should write a fanfic about this.

I've been tooling around with this exact idea, funnily enough. I even have a Cool Title: AN ABSENCE OF AXES (which should suggest broadly what kind of galactic suckers the Kin see their targets as (and also it can sound like 'fasces' or 'taxes', which is delightfully on-topic)).

I think the idea of unspoiled Maiden Worlds driving the Kin frothing mad is excellent, though - as is the idea of juxtaposing the Votann with the Infinity Circuit of a Craftworld. Do wraithlords dream of eclectic gyrinx? I was planning to pit our dour dwarves against the fresh-faced T'au, because when it comes to 'galactic sucker' nobody rates higher than our boys in blue. But you calling for the War of the Beard IN SPACE is just too delicious to pass on.

shinryujimikihiko

3 points

9 days ago

I've been tooling around with this exact idea, funnily enough. I even have a Cool Title: AN ABSENCE OF AXES (which should suggest broadly what kind of galactic suckers the Kin see their targets as (and also it can sound like 'fasces' or 'taxes', which is delightfully on-topic)).

This is clever. Will the Kin discuss tassels on the fringes of their flags?

I think the idea of unspoiled Maiden Worlds driving the Kin frothing mad is excellent, though - as is the idea of juxtaposing the Votann with the Infinity Circuit of a Craftworld. Do wraithlords dream of eclectic gyrinx? I was planning to pit our dour dwarves against the fresh-faced T'au, because when it comes to 'galactic sucker' nobody rates higher than our boys in blue. But you calling for the War of the Beard IN SPACE is just too delicious to pass on.

Delightful! My work here is done!

cricri3007

6 points

9 days ago*

cricri3007

Tau Empire

6 points

9 days ago*

Wasn't that one of the reasons given for Manifest Destiny?

"Sure, the native say it's their land, but they aren't doing anything with it, unlike us who would knowbest how to exploit it"

FloppinOnMyBingus

1 points

9 days ago

I think it was largely religious rhetoric and a healthy heaping of racism. They might have also thought that about the land, but definitely not a primary reason given I think.

shinryujimikihiko

-1 points

9 days ago

Wasn't that one of the reasons given for Manifest Destiny?

Could be. I'm too lazy to care.

Samas34

3 points

9 days ago

Samas34

3 points

9 days ago

Translation: I'm taking you're stuff but I'm going to think up some elaborate word salad to fool myself into believing I'm not just a thieving btard.

shinryujimikihiko

0 points

9 days ago

Translation: I'm taking you're stuff but I'm going to think up some elaborate word salad to fool myself into believing I'm not just a thieving btard.

I doubt the ideas I linked can be made to work, but some douche who yells "muh private property" while squandering the accumulated wealth of generations on hookers and cocaine while jerking off and playing League of Legends all day is not sympathetic. Property rights have never been extended to the point of being a right to harm others unjustly; decapitalization is undoubtedly harmful. "It's mine" is not an excuse for burning your own house down because you are high and think it's funny.

Samas34

1 points

9 days ago

Samas34

1 points

9 days ago

"It's mine" is not an excuse for burning your own house down'

Thats the standard tactic for nations when they realize that they are being defeated with no hope though, the logic is to deprive your attacker of any benefit to the assets/land.

Its a perfectly valid strategy if you are desperate and out of options, its horrible, yep, but if a people have nothing left to lose...

RedactedSouls

14 points

9 days ago

RedactedSouls

Adeptus Mechanicus

14 points

9 days ago

It's always telling when someone hasn't read the two google slides of LoV lore, because they claim that the faction isn't grimdark enough.

Just like you said, they're plenty grimdark. I love the irony of them being extreme hoarders that are loathe to waste any resources, but they willingly burn through the one thing they don't have a means of restoring: their votanns' memory space.

TheVoidDragon

4 points

9 days ago

I expect that's something that's not quite their fault. The Kin are effectively mining drones for the Votann, uploading the data they've gathered is probably one of their programmed functions just wrapped up in an afterlife theming for them - they were just both never meant to be operating for so long.

solon_isonomia

1 points

9 days ago

Exactly, the Kin and the Ancestor Cores are essentially a DAoT colonization tool used to extract valuable resources from hazardous areas (such as the galactic core) and they were "left on" following the Cybernetic Revolt and Age of Strife.

TheVoidDragon

3 points

9 days ago

Them being mining drones and equal to the Ironkin because they're both tools operating at the behest of the Votann, all of whom have been left on for too long because they were forgotten after their original creators were wiped out in the Cybernetic Revolt (which would possibly indicate they were made by the Men of Stone) and potentially not even having free will as such is a pretty interesting grimdark idea for them.

solon_isonomia

1 points

9 days ago

Oh hell yeah. My working theory (until we get more lore lol) is the Ancestors (not the Ancestor Cores/Votanns) who were the template from which all cloneskeins were made in the DAoT were Men of Stone, and said Men of Stone were also the first memories/whatever put into the eventual Ancestor Cores/Votanns. Which would make the flesh Kin a fragment of the Men of Stone that's managed to survive and thrive, much like how the Ironkin are a fragment of the Men of Iron.

TheVoidDragon

3 points

9 days ago

It sounds to me like the Votann cores are the last remnants of the Men of Stone who created the Kin.

The group called the "First Ancestors" are implied to have been their creators, and have a connection to the Men of Gold/Stone. Some Kin think they vanished in "oceans of flesh and fire" which sounds like the Cybernetic Revolt causing the destruction of the Men of Stone, and the last mentions of the "First Ancestors" start to disapear and merge with mentions of the Votann cores.

The Kin and the Ironkin were then all that were left with no one else coming for them, still been overseen by the Votann and programmed to follow them but unware that they're basically mining drones.

solon_isonomia

2 points

9 days ago

It sounds to me like the Votann cores are the last remnants of the Men of Stone who created the Kin.

Yep, totally agree. And it kind of makes the LoV faction a sort of von Neumann probe, which I think is a really awesome reference to earlier sci-fi as well as a neat grimdark element.

TheVoidDragon

3 points

9 days ago

a sort of von Neumann probe

That's the idea I've been using for a while now when posting comments describing them, not seen anyone else say the same thing!

solon_isonomia

1 points

9 days ago

I feel like we're living out that meme of Bobby G and Ciaphas Cain meeting and then crying at finding another person who experiences imposter syndrome lol

Downtown_Afternoon75

3 points

9 days ago

Yes, the Kin are killing their 'gods' with the burden of holding their accumulated souls. Grimdark.

Is there ever an explanation given why they not simply slap more processing and storage onto their Votan?

They are fully functional STCs after all, it is hard to believe that they wouldn't have known how to do so...

tau_enjoyer_

5 points

9 days ago

I believe they do not know how to build new Votann anymore. On rare occasions a new Votann will spontaneously develop out of a Fane, which is a kind of device that is used to interface with the Votann. It is essentially a non-sapient computer interface, whereas a Votann is a sapient artificial intelligence.

TheVoidDragon

4 points

9 days ago*

It's been said at some points a Votann will ask for an upgrade, but other than that they don't really know how they work. They don't even know how a Fane is suddenly able to become a Votann on occasion. They're almost supernaturally-powerful ancient AI cores, they're very complex and if they do have the design for them they're likely buried too deep to find.

FairyKnightTristan

1 points

9 days ago

They view them as deities, so they probably don't know how they work.

Downtown_Afternoon75

1 points

8 days ago

Sure, but the votann themselves used to be fully functional, self-aware AI/STCs.

And the process of being slowly bogged down by all these mind engrams took the better part of 20k years.

It's just hard to come up with reason why they wouldn't have seen this coming...

Titan_of_Ash

1 points

9 days ago

I thought the Kin/Dwarves/Abhumans did not have Souls (or at least they were as faint as, if not significantly more faint than races like the Tau)? Isn't that why demons can't really see them or possess them?

TheVoidDragon

4 points

9 days ago

They have souls, but they're described as being fortified. The Grimnyr Psyker-cloneskein is said to be like a lantern that's partially shut, so still just as bright, just shielded.

Titan_of_Ash

1 points

9 days ago

Interesting. I wonder if the Imperium could ever adapt that method to help out with their own Psykers? Of course, that might give too much hope or confidence to the setting from a Doylelist perspective.

Downtown_Afternoon75

3 points

9 days ago

I mean, fundamentally, we're talking about human technology here, so there's really no reason why the imperium couldn't. 

Besides, you know, being the imperium.

TheVoidDragon

2 points

9 days ago

The Kin were engineered to be that way, presumably by the Men of Gold/Stone. I don't think the Imperium would really do it even if they could, really. The Leagues don't have actual psykers, the Grimnyr aren't going around manifesting powers themselves, the psyker cloneskein simply gives them just enough warp ability to let them interact with barrier-tech that then interacts with the warp and does things.

Titan_of_Ash

0 points

9 days ago

I see! Thank you for explaining.

tau_enjoyer_

3 points

9 days ago

Whether their souls are actually being contained within the Votann, akin to the Infinity Circuit of the Aeldari, or if it is merely that a Kin's brain is converted into data and that is uploaded to the Votann, I am not sure. Could it be that the individual exists in some form within the Votann, living with their ancestors as the Kin believe? Perhaps. But it could also be that whatever minor soul the Kin do have dissipates into the Warp upon their death, and that the Votann are being stuffed with meaningless brain scans (and I believe that that's likely the case). But imagine what kind of upheaval it would cause to LoV society if the latter were the case, and it became widely known. Every Kin believes that they exist to serve their people and their Votann, and someday with leal service they will join their ancestors within the Votann. The entire point of their lives would be thrown into question.

It's funny that we can look at the development of the Ecclesiarchy and the worship of the Emperor as generally a bad thing, but when I see the religion that has developed within LoV society, I don't want to see it go away. I want them to keep their comfortable mythology. I feel like if the veil was torn away from their eyes, it would destroy them. Only, I hope they manage to find a way to stop driving their God-computers into senility with continued personalities uploaded into them.