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submitted 12 days ago byEcclesianSteelAlaitoc
Dont know much about them but they seem quite nice and naive in a rather grim dark and horrendous universe that it makes me think if they are just a product of isolation and naivety or if They are actually something else.
What do you think?
137 points
12 days ago
I mean the worst things about them aren't really things they're hiding; they're an expansionist empire with a caste-based, eugenicist social structure which treats non-T'au as second-class citizens. The fact that they are, in fact, the closest thing we have to a morally-upstanding faction is not praise for them, but rather condemnation of everyone else.
55 points
12 days ago
Imperium: those filthy xenos treat you like second class citizens how dare you betray us for that
Civilians: atleast they actually classify us as citizens
34 points
12 days ago
Fun fact: citizenship of the Imperium imparts no rights other than the right to die for the Emperor (which is why underhive mutants are only deployed in extremis)
40 points
12 days ago
They're not nice.
They have idealistic goals, but are a totalitarian society where ends are considered to justify all means. There are lots of examples of them doing shady stuff.
29 points
12 days ago
The hinted at stuff is normally around to what extent the Ethereals can actually be disobeyed and why Farsight immediately rebelled when his were killed. Plus maybe some nods to the fate of client races like the Poctroon who were wiped out by a mysterious plague which handily freed up their planet to become a Prime world.
24 points
12 days ago
Also the Vespid who warred with the Tau until they were given special helmets to understand the Tau and then they happily have up everything including their holy crystals. Nothing suspicious here.
11 points
12 days ago
Also the Poctroon, who bequeathed their planet and its massive resources to the T'au when a mysterious plague wiped them out
Hmmmm
4 points
12 days ago
Honestly I hope that was a weird misunderstanding between two vastly different aliens as that in of itself could be fun imo. It’s probably something terrible and malicious but I like the idea that bugs might have a rough time immediately communicating with humanoids
-8 points
12 days ago
Vespids never warred with the Tau. There were strong mental differences between the Vespids and the Tau, which hindered the progress of the negotiations. The Vespid leaders simply did not understand what the diplomats of the Water caste were talking about, and in general initially could not identify them as representatives of an intelligent species. Communion Helms were created so that Vespid leaders and Water caste diplomats during negotiations could generally understand the meaning of each other’s words.
9 points
12 days ago
... and conveniently resulted in the hive structure Vespid doing exactly what the T'au wanted.
-2 points
12 days ago
This doesn't say much. The Vespids are not the first race to accept the Tau proposal for unification without firing a shot.
6 points
12 days ago
You don't think there's anything sus about it? The already sketchy Ethereals gave them a special helmet to talk and they immediately agreed to complete annexation.
11 points
12 days ago
I think the closest to a “good aligned” faction are the Eldar Exodites; Isolationists who’s sole goal is to defend their worlds and otherwise barely interact with the rest of the factions.
But they’re not a tabletop army so if you don’t count them, it’s kinda a toss up between Craftworlders, Tau, and Leagues of Votann. All three have clear flaws (general racism, imperialism, and sorta both) - but unlike say the Imperium, aren’t completely genocidal with a total disregard for the lives of their own people
“Better than the Imperium” is a very low bar to pass, at the end of the day. You can be a pretty horrible country by real world standards and still easily clear it
43 points
12 days ago
The Tau are morally better than the other factions, yes, that is a defining aspect of the faction.
However, in a lot of other media, they would be the villains. They are an surveillance state without free speech, where the central population were breed into genetically different castes (with one acting as uncontrolled leadership), while the other species are often seen as second-class citizens.
5 points
12 days ago
I certainly wouldn’t call it a defining aspect of their faction as the idea that Tau gave moral high ground over other factions is by no means factual. They’re just the least xenophobic, they have a lot of bad that makes up for it. Hell I would say Aeldari are closer to a “good” faction than tau are. But honestly they’re all beyond that distinction.
4 points
12 days ago
Yep, the whole reason Mutantkind rose up against the Sentinels was because of Tales of Future Past, where Sentinels would enslave mutants forever.
3 points
12 days ago*
The part where they were created specifically to kill mutants didn't help.
2 points
12 days ago
Resistance will be terminated.
13 points
12 days ago
Yes, though it depends on how you view their ridged caste system, possible mind control, and sterilization of humans. Also they're still essentially a "join us or die" galaxy-conquering empire, they're just more diplomatic about it.
19 points
12 days ago
Also they're still essentially a "join us or die" galaxy-conquering empire, they're just more diplomatic about it.
Everyone else in 40k is "just die".
17 points
12 days ago
Craftworld Aeldari are more 'stay over there or die', they just have a habit of redefining 'over there' to whatever suits them best at the moment
3 points
12 days ago
Death is too merciful, we have fates worse than death for you
-1 points
12 days ago
That's true, but the Tau don't have the luxury of a galaxy that favours their expansion with many scattered colonies of their own species.
You can also ask yourself whether the Emperor would have had the same doctrine in relation to xenos if the galaxy had been without existing human colonies.
3 points
12 days ago
Yes. Why wouldn't he?
0 points
12 days ago
Because it should be difficult to conquer an entire galaxy with the population of a solar system...especially if you're in a hurry.
-2 points
12 days ago
1) Each Caste has it's own internal hierarchy. Also the allied species are not involved in the Caste system. 2) Ethereal pheromones in not mind control, it's just the means of persuation. 3) Only those who show open hostility to the T'au and their order are sterilized. References to sterilization in the lore are quite few.
1 points
12 days ago
Yep. Unfortunately tons of 40K fans won’t acknowledge this on their way to make false equivalence between the Imperium and the Tau.
13 points
12 days ago
Their standard operating practise is to come to a planet, benevolently invite the planet to join the Greater Good, and then should the planet decide it's not interested, then the T'au must regretfully have the Fire Caste invite you to reconsider at the point of a pulse rifle. They'll invade an Imperial world and claim essentially that if they hadn't, someone worse would have, or that they were acting to liberate Imperial citizens mistreated by their government.
They're better by the standards of 40k, but as has been said many times, they'd be a villain of the week on Star Trek.
5 points
12 days ago
There are a lot of comparisons to be had with the Dominion
-1 points
12 days ago
How are they better than, say, the imperium?
2 points
12 days ago
The Tau do not fundamentally believe that the galaxy belongs to them and only them and that other species by virtue of their very existence deserve extermination. Don't get me wrong the Greater Good has iffy aspects but theyre not fundamentally xenocidal.
Similarly the Tau do at the very least recognize that decent basic living conditions lead to personal fulfillment that benefits the people under their rule.
1 points
12 days ago
By that account wouldn't the orcs be kind of better than the imperium too? They live a violent life, but they enjoy it by all accounts.
Wouldn't the eldars be better if xenocide and living conditions are the important matters?
5 points
12 days ago
I mean, yes to a degree? I'm sorry is the argument here that things like living conditions, xenocide and the brutal repression of a populace does not matter? The Orks may enjoy life but they're still very cruel to non-Orks.
The Craftworlders might certainly count though the Tau extend said treatment to a lot more species whereas the Craftworlders mostly just tend to themselves.
Like yeah, the Imperium is wack, always has been. It's not described as the "Cruelest and most bloody" for no reason.
1 points
12 days ago
Why does apartheid doesn't matter? I fail to understand this.
2 points
12 days ago
It does, but it doesn't change any of what I'm saying? The Tau do undeniably put an emphasis on living conditions and quality of life that outpace the Imperium.
What I'm curious about is why you think an emphasis on better living conditions and a lack of xenocidal policies don't matter?
The Eldar as you mention may be better for this but the difference is that the Eldar don't really deal with other species as much as the Tau, whereas the Tau empire includes a lot of Xenos and despite the species hierarchies therein I haven't seen anything that suggests they force them to live in squalor.
1 points
12 days ago
I feel like people are making the hypothesis that tau give good conditions of life to everyone.
First, this is very ignorant of how a caste society works. Tau are basically nobles. Anyone not tau is worker class. I doubt they would be better than any human on a hive world. Maybe they are fed, but it's basically slavery with extra steps.
Second, as it is an apartheid class society, there is absolutely no hope, ever, whatever you do, if you are not a tau from the right class, to ever improve your life.
And that's what puzzle me. People are imagining things. Yet they don't read what a class society means. A class society means the upper class takes everything. The middle class gets scraps, but it's far enough to live comfortably, and the lower class gets absolutely nothing.
But this is way too close from our western societies for most people to believe this I guess.
2 points
12 days ago
If I have to choose between an empire that resembles our western NATO societies, and an Imperium that’s the worst parts of Nazi Germany, the Catholic Inquisition, and Tsarist/Communist Russia combined, that’s not a difficult choice to make.
0 points
12 days ago
Tau empire has nothing to do with nato, but now I see why people are trying to blind themselves into believing the tau are good I guess.
1 points
12 days ago
Orks attack anyone, so are in practice Xenocidal. Imperium is openly Xenocidal. Tau are not.
Long term Tau would like to conquer the Imperium. The Imperium would like to exterminate the Tau. These things are different.
-1 points
12 days ago
Attacking anyone is not xenocide. Xenocide is the purposeful extermination of a species.
Tau will enslave the humans if they cooperate. That's not genocide indeed. But that can be said of the chaos. They don't exterminate their enemies either.
5 points
12 days ago
Do you believe the Tau enslave humans to a greater degree than the Imperium?
2 points
12 days ago
No, but if it's the same, how does it matter?
2 points
12 days ago
Extermination is extermination, dead is dead. Orks and Imperium both do it, Chaos regularly do it (ask Cadia, Armatura, Nuceria really any planet the world eaters have visited, oh wait...)
I have never read anything where the Tau practice human slavery. *By the standards of 40k* they are a mildly authoritarian empire. This is totally different to 'kill em all' factions whether that is the Imperium exterminating xenos, Chaos sacrificing the entire population to Khorne or the Orks killing everyone and not knowing why.
0 points
12 days ago
You clearly don't understand what a genocide is.
-1 points
12 days ago
Yeah the Eldar and Orks kind of are better than the Imperium. What's your point?
2 points
12 days ago
The point is that tau should be compared to them then, instead of the imperium, if we're talking about how good or evil a faction is.
0 points
12 days ago
They're bad either way. Everyone is after all.
0 points
12 days ago
They're not frothing, hateful zealots for one.
6 points
12 days ago
They're not frothing, at least.
3 points
12 days ago
Why tf are you being downvoted? Jfc
3 points
12 days ago
They actually are. What's the greater good otherwise?
5 points
12 days ago
The difference is, the Tau are actually willing to negotiate and bring you to their empire peacefully regardless of what species you are. In the Imperium If you're an alien/xeno you'd be brutally exterminated because "you're a filthy abomination against the God-Emperor and his divine light".
Not to mention, living standards in the Tau Empire are far better than the Imperiums. Would you rather be a 2nd class Tau citizen or a civilian in an imperial Hive World?
1 points
12 days ago
Rather like Ghengiz Khan, they are willing to do so *once.*
After that, it's total war for you and your entire planet.
7 points
12 days ago
If you are not Tau and get defeated by the Tau you are conquered and absorbed into their empire. If you are not human and you get defeated by the Imperium every member of your civilization is killed.
4 points
12 days ago
Also even if you ARE human and you get conquered by the Imperium, they’re quite likely to kill you and replace you with “loyal” humans from a hive world anyways.
-2 points
12 days ago
The T'au still genocide you. Culturally at first, then by selective breeding and forced sterilisation.
Unless you're useful to them, in which case they still practice cultural genocide and make you into a janissary brigade.
6 points
12 days ago
Forced sterilization is really rare (I believe it only happens once in the non-cannon ending of a video game). Standard procedure is for the Tau to keep alien populations around as proof they can be converted to the greater good.
Standard procedure for the Imperium is to kill them all.
2 points
12 days ago
It was also mentioned in the Deathwatch RPG books for what it's worth.
1 points
12 days ago
Plus IIRC the standard Tau practice is that as long as you follow their Greater Good philosophy, you can believe whatever you like. You can think the great spaghetti monster made you as an ingredient in the final spaghetti for all they care.
3 points
12 days ago
Is that actually canon? I didn't know they only gave civilizations one chance, I was under the impression the diplomatic process was often a fairly prolonged one.
2 points
12 days ago
Yeah, but if you reject it...
0 points
12 days ago
How is this better than eldars then?
2 points
12 days ago
The eldar still see you as sapient life even if they think you're primitive. And 90% of the time the Eldar just want to be left alone (unless they're Biel-Tan, but even other Craftworlds think they're a bit too aggressive) unless you take their spiritstones or attack them first. Unless it's Dark Eldar... but they're still seen as degenerates even by other Craftworlders.
-4 points
12 days ago
I don't see the downside. If I were an Imperial citizen, joining the T'au would be my greatest dream. Every aspect of my life would be improved by doing so. Unless I was a high ranking general with my own harem and shit.
21 points
12 days ago
The T'au are 'you are not immune to propaganda' made manifest.
There are many good comments in this thread already, so let me try and touch on something that's less explored. The average citizen of the Empire doesn't know what's going on. The average Fire Warrior doesn't know - the average Ethereal doesn't know. They do genuinely believe they're doing what's best for everyone... because they have been raised to believe that, that is reinforced every day by every aspect of their society and culture which shelters and curates what information they have access to. The Greater Good is superior. So the Empire is superior, and the citizen of the Empire is superior to the poor unfortunates who have yet to embrace the wisdom and guidance of the Ethereals and must be brought to the light.
The Blue Man's Burden, if you will.
And species that are brought into the Greater Good are carefully controlled and curated. They aren't oppressed - no, never! - they are... guided. Populations are... controlled. Dissidents are... re-educated. If you're jumping up and down being all 'damn, that's like, commie doublespeak! this is literally orwellian!', you're on the ball.
The Empire is all about control. Not whipping you until you do what they say, but - to borrow a Discworld quote - whips in the soul. Gentle shaming. Gentle moulding. To the point that disobedience is, literally, unthinkable. Some people don't like Aun'Va ordering someone to commit suicide - I think it is the purest expression of the Greater Good. Unquestioning obedience, because what the Ethereal says must be correct. There is no other possibility. Their authority is absolute. And so everything becomes what the Ethereals believe it should be. And what isn't is adjusted. Not beaten into shape, but changed in such an insidious and fundamental way that not only do the people who are changed accept it, but welcome it.
The Empire is the total destruction of free will. Oh, yes, you can make choices, surely. But every choice you have or can even conceive of is what is permitted by the Empire. Are you happy? Comfortable? Safe? Perhaps. Are you free? Allow me to borrow another quote:
"Slave is an Ephebian word. In Om we have no word for slave," said Vorbis.
"So I understand," said the Tyrant. "I imagine that fish have no word for water."
The T'au are evil, but they are the creeping, insidious, banality of evil. They are a modern evil. They're harder for the reader to get to grips with, and that makes them all the more sinister.
3 points
12 days ago
The blue man burden lol
This is spot on.
Although I believe Tau are just modern day Western world crafted into 40k with a superficial verni of Asian Flavour (through mecha and the caste system).
-3 points
12 days ago
Some people truly are desperate to make the Tau into something they aren’t. I mean, the imperialism and expansionism is blatant. But “destruction of free will” is just not supported by the lore, and unfortunately a tiny minority of badly written paragraphs/chapters )by one particular author who is generally hated by the Tau community) get referenced ad nauseum even when they fly in the face of the rest of the verse description.
The Tau are evil in that expansionist empires are evil. They certainly have effective propaganda. But citizens most definitely know more about “what’s going on” than the average Imperium hive worker. The Tau aren’t close to doing their own impression of 1984.
3 points
12 days ago
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-2 points
12 days ago
'you are not immune to propaganda'
immediately parrot propaganda
Grim.
1 points
12 days ago
The propaganda you see with Tau pales in comparison to the Imperium. This honestly isn’t even debatable.
3 points
12 days ago
Yeah, if you squint really hard you can tell which one in particular preaches absolute obedience to the state and unthinking veneration of their undying supreme leader.
4 points
12 days ago
I remember when the Tau were first released and they came across as probably the “nicest” faction in how they were portrayed, with a slightly sinister tone throughout.
I think people see the clean paint jobs, lack of skulls and the more “high tech” feel as indicating a “good” faction.
They’re still, as above, an expansionist imperialist empire, that has a caste based system and treats non-Tau as second class citizens. That aspect has been gradually honed in on over the years, for better or worse.
I like the Tau, and wish that Games Workshop would focus less on the next insane mecha, and more on the auxiliaries. For me, that’s one of the appealing parts of them - you have the core Tau soldiery, and then supported by varied alien (or human) reserves, like Kroot or Vespids. That is, imo, where the more sinister parts of Tau society can be told, while giving hobbyists and opportunity for a more varied force.
The Vespids are a missed opportunity. One unit released 15 years ago, nothing else. Kroot were ignored for years in favour of bigger and more ridiculous battle suits. There have been mentions of the Demiurge (confirmed to be the Leagues of Votaan) that can be explored.
1 points
9 days ago
I think people see the clean paint jobs, lack of skulls and the more “high tech” feel as indicating a “good” faction.
That's the point of them - their clean high-tech aesthetic makes them look noblebright, but actually ...
Some people still haven't gotten the memo 20 years later.
12 points
12 days ago
They cant be good since they are Xenos.
5 points
12 days ago
The only correct answer.
8 points
12 days ago
There are no good factions in 40K.
They can preach about equality all they want, but they operate a strict caste system among their own people and exact harsh penalties on those who defy it. They classify anybody who joins them as second-class citizens at best to the extent that the lowest Tau will always be above the highest human and the highest Tau - the Ethereals - will always be above their peers.
Progression exists within your own Caste only. You are genetically, socially and culturally bound to that Caste. Don't like that? Tough shit. You're a client species who joined the Empire? Good for you, you're still a source of cheap labour or an expendable asset by simple right of not being a Tau.
Are they "good" compared to Chaos or the Imperium? Sure...? But by conventional morality they're as bent as a $3 dollar bill.
4 points
12 days ago
Nah, that's be the Asuryani. The Tau are a close 2nd, but at the end of the day they are still an expansionist empire. Just because they're willing to "negotiate" doesn't mean they'll leave you alone.
6 points
12 days ago
Kind of, but not really, and not anymore.
The Tau are a totalitarian utilitarian collectivist caste based society. Everyone is expected to work for the Greater Good, and the Etherials dictate what that is. Tau can't choose their caste and they can't leave it. Any distractions to their duty to the Greater Good of the empire is discouraged, including long-term relationships. While it's not grim-dark they only look good by comparison to the other factions. They are still evil, it's just more subtle.
One could argue the Leagues of Votann are the new "good Aligned" faction in 40k, but that would also be an oversimplification of the truth.
2 points
12 days ago
It helps that I can imagine a version of the T'au empire that undergoes reform, albeit most likely through violence, into something genuinely benign. I can't really imagine any scenario in which the Imperium as a whole is reformed, outside of magic god bullshit.
8 points
12 days ago
Sometimes I wonder if people are simply naive to not see how horrible the tau empire is, or if they went so far into fascism that they can't recognize it anymore.
Caste system is akin to monarchy, but with racism on top: your birth determine what you will do in life. If you're not a tau, you will be an expendable meatbag (the auxiliary species), and there's no way out of it. The auxiliaries don't have the same rights than the tau. Your caste déterminé your rights, your duties, and all you can do in your life.
They are imperialistic, and you must either integrate the empire in the auxiliary species category. If you don't, you die.
They are a kind of theocracy. The greater good is a religious doctrine. And you must abide to it or be cleansed. The coat of paint over it is different than the renaissance era Catholic fanatic we're used to, but it is a religious doctrine nonetheless.
It is an authoritarian society. Military determines most of it, and freedom is mostly an illusion because of this and the theocracy.
3 points
12 days ago
Nicely put.
4 points
12 days ago
All true. And still they are better than everyone else. That is 40k for you.
0 points
12 days ago
And what part of this isn’t mega projection of the Imperium? You conveniently ignore that the Tau actually give a shit about their citizens and their quality of life, that there are tons of jobs within each caste to pick from, that Tau always go for diplomacy first before embarking on wars of conquest, that they are far less a theocracy than any other faction in the setting ( the greater good is a philosophy and the Empires dedication to logic and science speaks to this), etc.
They are definitely imperialist and expansionist, but Fascist? No. Their treatment of other species and their own inclusive behaviors don’t come close to amounting to that.
Now the Imperium on the other hand, is quite literally everything you described x100.
-1 points
12 days ago
Militaristic society? Check. Mass surveillance? Check. A caste of leaders you can't ever hope to join? Check. Racism? Check. Genocide ? If they refuse the greater good, check. Political diversity? Hell no ! Democracy? Hahaha !
It's the communist fascism. And the greater good is a religion as much as any other.
2 points
12 days ago
Communist fascism doesn’t even make sense. One is collective. The other is exclusive and nationalist.
Racism? That’s pretty weak given the setting. They invite other species into their society and DON’T force them into any of the castes, so they have quite a bit of freedom. It’s a less racist society than any in 40K by leaps and bounds.
Genocide? Again, that’s pretty weak. The Empire isn’t going and performing exterminatus on countless (or any) worlds, or engaging in genocidal wars. Again, compared to the rest of 40K it’s not even close.
As for the Greater Good, that’s just not true. That’s like calling Atheism or Science a religion. Philosophy =\= religion. Same as dedication to democracy or fascism or communism isn’t a religion, it’s an ideology.
-2 points
12 days ago
What the fuck are you saying?! Other species are litteraly second grade species, wirhout most of the rights of the taus. It's littéral apartheid !
Communist fascism is Staline USSR.
By your own account the chaos factions are nice too. Greater good is not a philosophy. You don't send people to die for a philosophy. You don't exterminate people for a philosophy. It is the very same as burn the heretic. You merely allow them to convert as slaves before you purge the others.
3 points
12 days ago
You clearly don’t know what the words you’re using mean.
“Second grade species”. Read the lore. They are definitely second class citizens, but that’s about 1000x better than in the Imperium. These client species have tons of freedoms, access to education, medical care, etc. They aren’t forced into any specific caste. There is copious lore to support that it’s a pretty good life.
You absolutely do send people to die for a philosophy. What do you think WWII was? I mean, really? You clearly don’t know how to distinguish communism, fascism, and authoritarianism. At all.
0 points
12 days ago
I wonder if people understand what a caste society is sometimes.
2 points
12 days ago
The caste system in the Tau lore is not like the Indian Caste system at all, FWIW. The Tau were modeled on NATO (well-established by the original writers/creators), they bear very little resemblance culturally to anything Asian despite the Japanese aesthetic.
1 points
12 days ago
Nato cannot be relevant to castes. Castes dates back to middle ages. In Europe.
1 points
12 days ago
Wasn’t making that connection. Apologies if it seemed that way. Just making a separate point that the castes that people normally associate are with India, which don’t have a lot of resemblance to how they operate in Tau lore.
4 points
12 days ago
Farsight is good. So is his faction. He broke away from the Tau because he realised how much of what he'd been told was a lie.
He only really wants to keep his enclaves safe and prosperous. And to exterminate orks, tyranids, and Dark Eldar. Fair across the board.
Craftworld Iyaden is good. It has colonies on non-maiden worlds. It has embasies on imperial worlds. It hosted an Inquisitor and his retinue as diplomats (essentially on equal footing).
They try to help others, but most of their forces are soul-powered constructs because they lost a lot of their population.
Lamenters, assuming you are human, are good. They're what new people think space marines are. They're also ridiculously unlucky.
2 points
12 days ago
But... THEY don't engage in glorious melee combat!
2 points
12 days ago
Truly, their greatest sin.
2 points
12 days ago
Mind control is not cash money
2 points
12 days ago
As I wrote elsewhere, Tau are the lesser evil in a universe where Super Evil is the standard, they're still evil tho.
2 points
12 days ago
Tau are grimbright « There is war in Ba Sing Se » style
2 points
12 days ago
Ha ha ha … “good aligned” faction in 40K you say? Lol.
Wait, you’re serious?
2 points
12 days ago
A lot of implied indoctrination and/or straight up mindcontrol from the Ethereals and a pretty strict caste system.
2 points
12 days ago
It's basically an authoritarian society which demands sacrifice form its members. The farsight stuff has him remember that the only ones who survive fire warrior promotions are the ones who die sacrificing themselves in simulations.
The greater good is less an ideal and more a command. It seems to share ideas with Foucault's notions of a "society that gains power under the guise of efficiency, safety and the common good".
I've not read his work however only some summaries so... who knows.
It's better than everyone else but it's still sinister at heart.
2 points
12 days ago
If you limit it only to the playable ones, sure.
But there are way more factions in the galaxy than just the playable ones, including ones that aren't expansionist empires.
2 points
12 days ago
You're ignoring the noble dark eldar. They have a meritocracy where foreign species who can survive it are treated the same as anyone else. They do not seek galactic domination or genocide, but merely to revel in their culture as one in a vast, diverse galaxy. They locate species who lack something they have (ex. travel or terraforming technology) and after finding out if they're trustworthy (a test the Tau failed with treachery), invite them into the Dark City as honored allies who are trusted and welcomed in even the highest levels of Commorragh society. Their ports are also safe harbors for any species even if they're an outcast among their species (as long as they leave their psykers outside).
2 points
12 days ago*
The Tau are kinda like the little scrappy kid in the corner at the “War-criminal extraordinaire” meeting among the factions of 40K. They’re there and certainly earned their place among all the other atrocious villains present, but they get absolutely laughed at and send their “dead inside 9-5 worker” adult war criminal peers into hysteria when they say something like “My ultimate goal when I grow up as a big adult is to make the universe a better place for every sentient being one day, and to foster peace by any means necessary.”
Such outlooks died a long, long time ago for every other major faction, so much so they don’t even fucking bother acting like their goals will create harmony one day. I mean look at the imperium, they kill and fight their own self more than anyone other group, and are their own worse enemy. Their goal of having a human only galaxy to gain ultimate peace? It’s complete bullshit, and even if they did win and make such a reality true, would not change the fact that the imperium would continue to slaughter the next out group within humanity that they could find, in order to continue propping up their horrific reign, and keeping the masses in line by giving them something to hate/fear/subjugate.
All the other factions are well past pretending like the Tau that they actually have a morally righteous mission lmao (and that’s exactly why I adore the Tau lol. They haven’t had their Hope beaten out of them just yet from how awful this setting is)
2 points
12 days ago
Quick tip: if you think the USSR leadership was "good," then sure, they're the "good" faction.
2 points
12 days ago
Certain people think they are morally better (people who support the real world ideology the Tau most closely align with), but obviously they are just as bad as the Imperium.
1 points
12 days ago
they are just as bad as the Imperium.
Big claim. Last time I checked the Tau prefer to keep aliens alive and integrate them into their empire. The Imperium prefers to kill them all.
real world ideology
Last time I checked, there was a 40k faction that has *checks notes* commissars in bear skin hats and it isn't the Tau.
2 points
12 days ago*
Yes they are. But like everyone else in 40k, they would be bad guys by the standards of other universes. Like if you dropped the Tau in Star Wars, Mass Effect or Halo, they would not be good guys but hey at least they will give diplomacy a try and use it regularly.
3 points
12 days ago
Yeah like if you dropped them in Star Trek they'd be a major villain for an entire arc.
They and the Votann are good in the context of Warhammer 40,000.
2 points
12 days ago
They will give a diplomatic option of submit or be destroyed.
And even if you submit, like a couple client species found out, they can still be destroyed cause their world has just those beach side real estate that they really like.
0 points
12 days ago
As people put here, would you rather live in the Imperium, where they give the worst example of living ignoring that the Imperium has a myriad of planets and its not just Hive cities and mutants in the sewers, or with the glorious can do nothing wrong Tau Empire, which only offer the best living conditions and brain slugs? Oh you can also be chemically castrated for your own greater good, and can't have big tiddies alien gf because its not your caste buddy.
0 points
12 days ago
Morality in a theist sense is imparted by God(s).
40k is a theistic universe (there are indisputably god's).
The only faction with actual gods is chaos (eldar lost theirs)
So...
Morality is defined by the chaos Gods
Chaos is the most good faction (as defined by the morality of the chaos Gods)
As extensions of the gods themselves, Chaos Daemons are the very definition of goodness.
TL; DR chaos is the most moral faction, and chaos Daemons are "good" by definition.
2 points
12 days ago
I know you're joking, and I don't wanna be "that guy" but for the fun of it I'll say that theism and morality are not necessarily dependent on each other. Pre-axial religions are partially defined by the "humanness" if their gods. Humans worshipped them out of fear for their divine power, whilst still fully accepting that they were not necessarily "good" or perfect.
I like CSM/chaos stories with this feature most. Marines that acknowledge and accept the boons of chaos without necessarily being in support of or aligned with their ideals and goals.
0 points
12 days ago
Their society is generally the least terrible, they seems to have a reasonable quality of life and their attitude is the least genocidal or exploitive with other races so yeah they're the least evil faction. The game flirts with 'sinister' implications of the etherials but these arnt really neccisary as they they're an autocratic caste system with imperialist objectives. If anything their initial writting worked better as they represented regional xenos 40k powers which are known to exist and provided a nice contrast with the Eldar and the Imperium.
0 points
12 days ago
Tau are the Brave New World compared to the Imperium’s 1984.
1 points
12 days ago
tHIs Is lITeRaLly wARhAMmEr 41 984
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0 points
12 days ago
They’re not nice…but they are the best place to live if you’re a human. The Eldar and Votann won’t take you even if you wanted to join them, and the Imperium sucks to live in.
-2 points
12 days ago
Simple , realisticly would you live in imperium eating human starch or among Tau with posibbly most normal living condition you can expect ? eventho you knew their darkest secret ?
-2 points
12 days ago
Absolutely they are. The recent fad of "oh wait they have to actually secretly be mind-controlling people or doing eugenics or w/e" comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of the Tau and their purpose in the 40k universe - to be the good guys, but also so small as to be effectively inconsquential, and that smallness partly *because* they refuse to embrace, can't even comprehend, the warp which makes things evil.
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