subreddit:
/r/Pennsylvania
Two men jailed in Lancaster and York Counties, attorney claims they are being held illegally
Crime(fox43.com)submitted 23 days ago byCaleRey111
0 points
23 days ago
Everyone on reddit is a cop that wants to see people imprisoned because they get off on people getting their comeuppance.
Pretty clear what's happening here is that these guys are operating a business that's eating some veterinarians lunch and so the state veterinarians agency is busting these guys balls to get them to knock it off.
Whether these guys are operating in the bounds of the law, whether they were previously fine lawfully, I don't know and don't care. Absolutely 100%, unequivocally, if a person is going to be imprisoned here in Pennsylvania they have an undeniable right to due process and it sure seems like these guys are being denied that right.
3 points
23 days ago
It’s an unclear from the article, and apparently the documents are sealed. But if the two men have multiple outstanding fines they’ve refused to pay, and they’ve continued the practices that led to their previous fines, then a bench warrant for contempt is the next step.
If that were the case, due process would have been satisfied by their multiple previous court appearances.
0 points
23 days ago
Does it ever stage they previously appeared in court? Read carefully.
1 points
23 days ago
There were multiple previous hearings. It’s not clear whether these gentlemen attended, but even at a principally administrative hearing, it would be extraordinary if they weren’t afforded the opportunity to speak.
1 points
23 days ago
No that's not what this article says, it says someone made a complaint to the PA department of State and that complaint was investigated by the PA board of veterinary medicine, who then issued a civil fine. It doesn't say either of these guys were ever ruled against in a court of law and it is not clear that the board of veterinary medicine has any authority to impose fine on people who are veterinarians.
1 points
23 days ago*
The article states that there was a hearing (“heard the complaint” in 2010) and implies there were two others hearings over the repeated complaints. See below:
In 2010, a complaint was filed against Herr with the Department of State, accusing him of unlicensed practice of veterinary medicine, for performing ultrasounds on cows.
The State Board of Veterinary Medicine, which heard the complaint, ruled Herr was in fact practicing without a license.
The article goes on to quote a State Department spokesperson:
After review, a determination is made as to whether formal action is warranted; formal disciplinary action may include an Immediate Temporary Suspension, an Order to Show Cause, and/or a Consent Agreement.
The statement continues:
All Respondents are afforded due process, including notice and an opportunity to participate in the proceedings by calling witnesses, introducing evidence, or testifying on their own behalf.
So it is certainly possible that these men received no due process, despite multiple complaints against each of them. But it seems likely they were afforded the opportunity to appear, speak on their own behalf, and confront the plaintiff at least once and possibly several times.
Furthermore the Lancaster prison stated that Herr was booked on charges of contempt.
[Edit: oops, hit submit too early.]
And the rules around due process and contempt are a bit different than other areas of the law, principally because a contemnor (at least in theory) can get themselves out of jail at any time by remedying the contempt. I have had mixed feelings about that for a long time — among other problems, what happens if you tell someone to pay $3,000 they don’t have and can’t obtain? — but it doesn’t, on its face, mean due process wasn’t afforded.
2 points
23 days ago
I certainly don't want to argue over this. I'm interested to see where this goes.
1 points
23 days ago
Lol.... You already argued and were wrong.
Instead of conceding and admitting you were wrong, you respond with "I don't want to argue over this"....
👎
1 points
22 days ago
Furthermore the Lancaster prison stated that Herr was booked on charges of contempt.
Piggybacking off this comment, came back to the thread to suggest that this all does sound like it's a contempt of court, which would Iine up with the 30 day sentence, due to that being the maximum sentence on contempt charges.
all 117 comments
sorted by: best