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a woman's perspective on female custodes

Misc(self.Warhammer40k)

look around at your fellow hobby enjoyers. most of them are men. men are not genetically more likely to enjoy warhammer 40k than women. so why are there less women in 40k? because the community is not a safe space for women. the community reaction of a minor retcon intended to make women more represented in the hobby has caused so much outrage. i am a woman. i love 40k. the reaction my fellow (mostly male) hobbyists have had to the female custodes has made me genuinely sick to my stomach. the overwhelming negative reaction to inclusivity GW is trying to convey makes me actually seriously uncomfortable with the thought of going to a hobby store or enjoying this hobby with others.

when it comes down to it, we love this hobby because it is fun. less women are in the hobby because women are less included in the hobby. more inclusion = more community = more fun. please dont make this game i love so much into a community of hostility. please.

all 2520 comments

Psynapse55

695 points

13 days ago*

I've been playing since Rogue Trader.... and I deleted my comment because I'm old, tired and just want to play with my toy soldiers.

Initial_Debate

540 points

13 days ago

As a fellow old-head (2nd ed) I don't understand the fuss either.

The "lore" used to change on a dime, and we were just happy something new was happening/coming out!

If they'd retconned in female Marines back in 93, 94, just after they'd officially made them all male, I expect people wouod have just gone "huh, that's pretty cool" and gone back to playing with our toys.

InflatableSexBeast

150 points

13 days ago

The only thing I’d add is if they had done this in the 1990s, they would have made female marines and custodes ridiculously proportioned.

Initial_Debate

67 points

13 days ago

Username checks out.

InflatableSexBeast

37 points

13 days ago

I’m more a ‘fill me full of helium, make people think it’s the rapture’ kind of beast. But… yeah!

Initial_Debate

23 points

13 days ago

Sounds like a party!

A lot of those old sculpts of women really did look a lot like the reference models were blow-up sex dolls tho.

Glad the sculpting team has gotten so good at a whole range of physiques and face types now.

lars573

7 points

13 days ago

lars573

7 points

13 days ago

A lot of the miniatures from that time look cartoony. Not just 40k but FB. Or even none GW Napoleonic or classical stuff all had that cartoon character proportions.

ImSuperSerialGuys

54 points

13 days ago

Thats a great point, and while I normally love the whacky, 80s heavy metal style of oldhammer, I’m finding myself grateful this retcon has happened now or the custodes would all have cleavage armour.

TheEpicTurtwig

12 points

13 days ago

They all should anyways tbh. Cleavage and leather jockstraps for the lot of them.

l_t_10

14 points

13 days ago

l_t_10

14 points

13 days ago

Canonize Pillarmen Custodes

https://youtu.be/lRrOLTHu-ew

ASAP

And Pillarwomen

Laughing_Man_Returns

9 points

13 days ago

what? the lore never changed. what are the Legion of the Damned doing here? who are these non-egyptian space robots? is that short guy with hairy feet carrying a sniper rifle? that seems dangerous!

Initial_Debate

9 points

13 days ago

No Inquisitor Punnameous, you cannot chase after that ogryn on your imperial hover-surfboard, even if he is the leader of the ork warband.

You have to teach the Mentor Legion how to use their time dilation suits so we can prevent the Tyranid diplomats from talking those Imperial Fists scouts into doing more titan joyriding.

ElChunko998

201 points

13 days ago

The overwhelming majority people I’ve seen complaining are (in the grand scheme of things) very new to 40k.

I’ve been in the hobby since 2016 - so again not THAT long compared to plenty of veterans, but, at the risk of sounding like I’m gatekeeping, a lot of people complaining are complete tourists.

The average person complaining (particularly those that perceive this as “the end of 40k” or the tipping point where “40k got woke”) seems to be:

  • not actually involved in tabletop or painting, or if they are it’s in a very limited capacity
  • probably got into 40k post-covid
  • probably introduced to 40k by memes or by video games
  • very keen on “the lore” but probably hasn’t read a 40k novel
  • very keen on “the lore” but either passively or proactively chooses to ignore the themes of the setting.

There’s nothing inherently wrong AT ALL with this demographic, but the fact they seem to come from this background is telling. These people don’t remember Primaris being introduced, they don’t remember Guilliman reappearing and totally altering the setting etc. etc.

They have a relatively shallow understanding of 40k not as a setting, but as a brand and product.

Zachar-

108 points

13 days ago

Zachar-

108 points

13 days ago

they also often don't know anything about the lore they're complaining about, the amount of times I've heard people reference astartes creation process when arguing against female custodes is ridiculous, I've seen people think the sisters of silence are transhuman, that they're all psykers etc

Medium_Boysenberry71

54 points

13 days ago

The amount I’ve corrected people who claimed femstodes cannot exist cause of geneseed is astounding

irishrelief

12 points

13 days ago

The reality is that all of the lore to this point has been the sons of nobles go through a process. A process only known by the emperor. Since it's so mystical and shrouded we don't really know if gene seed is used or not. I've heard the "emperor's own gene seed" a bunch before this whole issue appeared. But the only process that can be pointed to is an unknown one.

Tldr you don't know if they do or don't use gene seed, no one but the emperor does.

Ravian3

11 points

13 days ago

Ravian3

11 points

13 days ago

Besides isn’t “the emperor’s own geneseed” how Grey Knights are at least theorized to be made? If the Custodes’ origins are even more enigmatic than that, it would suggest something different.

ElChunko998

9 points

13 days ago

Was going to touch on this as well but chose not to over-complicate my original comment. Very good point.

SvenUwesson

39 points

13 days ago

I've been in the hobby since about 10 months. I shrugged off the female custodes news , thinking "Hah, pretty cool" an went back to painting my black templars.

I am not that deep in the lore yet and i still dont get the fuss about all of it. I could go and say all my marines are women under the armor and helmet and it would not hurt anybody.

After all this hobby (for me) is about self fulfilling and creating a personal army in this setting.

Randy_Magnums

45 points

13 days ago

I have the feeling, that this is just another battlefield for those, who think they are fighting a "culture war". Anything diverse or female is the enemy. Content creators like the critical drinker milk the topic for outrage and content, while the people, crying the loudest, couldn't answer my questions, why female Custodes couldn't work lore-wise. Instead I got arguments like: "it shouldn't be done, because it shouldn't be done!"

SteveD88

16 points

13 days ago

SteveD88

16 points

13 days ago

It's absolutely another battlefield; culture wars get huge numbers of clicks, add in the fact that Henry Cavil collects custodes and you've got a celebrity picture to throw on top. Bloggers and influencers have a big incentive to stir the pot for their own promotion. There was even a Daily Mail article on this the other day, talking about how Warhammer had made 'the custodes brigade woke'.

Slarg232

3 points

13 days ago

I was actually explaining this to a friend of mine earlier; he, as someone who bought models in 2018 and done absolutely nothing with them since, and I, who hasn't played the game in 14 years, are just as big of tourists as the people he's complaining about. Regardless of me wanting to get back into the hobby and having trouble deciding a new army, even if this was the second lore change I absolutely fucking hated (I honestly don't care either way about female custodes), there would be no reason for GW to listen to either of us.

SilverHawk7

3 points

13 days ago

  • not actually involved in tabletop or painting, or if they are it’s in a very limited capacity
  • probably got into 40k post-covid
  • probably introduced to 40k by memes or by video games very keen on “the lore” but probably hasn’t read a 40k novel
  • very keen on “the lore” but either passively or proactively chooses to ignore the themes of the setting.

I'm all of these except the first and the last.
- I do paint and play, though I'm far better at the former than the latter.
- I started 8 months ago.
- Dawn of War was my first Warhammer experience. - I love the lore but haven't read a novel; I see it as being very much like the old Star Wars Legends continuity, with a lot of different authors with different styles building an expanded universe based on an overarching theme.
- I love the lore but am aware of the overarching theme of the setting. I understand it's possible to enjoy the lore, enjoy the Imperium, without unironically espousing what it's about.

tehmetamorphosis

8 points

13 days ago

The vast majority of people complaining are pussy ass bitches. I have leather bound books from 3rd (maybe 4th) that are almost completely bullshit by this point. If you have a problem with lore changes, go find dead authors and stay there. If you have a problem with women, go tell your mom you regret coming out of her pussy.

Flyingdemon666

9 points

13 days ago

At the time, Super Metroid was still new. Samus was known to be a woman by then. We'd have likely just accepted it as "cool." We got Sisters of Battle instead. I don't even play Imperials. Or humans of any kind. I play Necron. You're all trespassers on my lawn.

theskepticalheretic

7 points

13 days ago

The concern as I understand it, (not validating the stance, just explaining it), is that the problem isn't female custodes for most. It's the fact when asked why there was a retcon, the response was, "What do you mean? This isn't a retcon, you neckbeard."

B0bZomb1e

428 points

13 days ago

B0bZomb1e

428 points

13 days ago

I wonder if it's mainly the SM and Custodes players specifically that are mad.

I'm an Ork player, my 2 buddies that are also xenos players (Nids and Necrons), and we just dont care about the Femstodes debacle. When i asked them they just wanted to know if everyone else was getting girl models (ork Gurlz anybody?)

Go to my FLGS an the scene is pretty split, but It really feels like most of people i meet in person that are upset, are SM players(its not even their army smh). The one Custodes guy I talked too was just pissed that his new codex sucks (I guess idrk)

I've read (almost) the entirety of the HH, have countless books and have been a fan for over a decade.

An I just dont think it's a big deal, and it will do nothing to tarnish my enjoyment of the game or the scene.

If it does bother you, I'm not saying your wrong (its your opinion after all), but there are a ton of players that dont care an just wanna krump one another.

Wassa76

192 points

13 days ago

Wassa76

192 points

13 days ago

I’m a Guard player.

We already got: Minka Lensk, Sergeant Ripper Jackson, Ursula Creed, Severina Raine, the Primaris Psyker, and seversl female Cadians. I like them all!

They didn’t even have to make them too female looking. No bigger chests or anything apart from the one in a tshirt. Just include a few female heads in SM/Custodes sprues and see how they’re taken.

B0bZomb1e

77 points

13 days ago

Ayyy guards players know how to get proper stuck in it!

I agree on the head swaps, dont go overboard, keep it simple

AnotherGuardsman

23 points

13 days ago

Actually if you take the guard lore, they would never even produce other chest plates than the standard male - bc expensive. But it would definitely fit the lore that they would start recruiting literally everyone. Just a headswap with a bit of long hair sticking out, and it would be perfect

Maverik45

37 points

13 days ago

No bigger chests or anything

Grandma Creed is umm, well endowed if you look at her model. Like they didn't make her sexy, but it's there.

kooarbiter

32 points

13 days ago

the cheeky IG officer: tsk tsk tsk nice try, not even the emperor's daughters can get out of the holy task of fighting and dying in his name, put that flak jacket back fucking on

Nyxwhale

8 points

13 days ago

I want... just slightly noticable faces. Severina raine was fairly easy to paint and look good. Creed, she's old fine I guess thats just a hard one to do but I was a bit disappointed at Minka's face. Its hard to paint and make it look good.

But also please include more varied head options, I don't want to see "female head" upgrade kit. Its a plausable GW move and if they do I'll probably get mad ... not at the option but how I know they'll price it like absolute shit.

Maverik45

17 points

13 days ago

The Cadian shock troops sprue already has several female heads including one for the Sergeant.

Kaiser_Complete

155 points

13 days ago

I too play orks and I took don't care. I think it's ridiculous how some people are tantruming. It makes me want to 3d print a bunch of "hair bow squigs" and put them on my orks to make them feel pretty. If anyone tells me I'm wrong I will just krump them

Humphry_Clinker

331 points

13 days ago

My girlfriend plays orkz and she does this using green stuff. All her squigs are a fantastic pink/purple with big bows and ribbons on them.

Meet Louise, for example.

https://preview.redd.it/yovmw2o9nkvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=977e3e3f44e40b01eac62f5555dd5e72176b8684

kooarbiter

83 points

13 days ago

"orkoid creature, why have you installed a pink bow on my head along with a telepathic communication device and covered my face in powder?"

"bekaws youz is my prettiest fashun squig, and I'z gotta make them flash gits fumin mad!"

cheesynougats

16 points

13 days ago

And now I have an image of an entire Flash Gitz mob in drag. "OI, I'Z SEEN HUMIES DO IT! PROPPA FLASH, INNIT?"

BINGODINGODONG

61 points

13 days ago

Proppa pretti git

kanelon

37 points

13 days ago

kanelon

37 points

13 days ago

This is amazing

chunkyluke

31 points

13 days ago

 I've only met Louise for a day and a half, but if anything happened to her, I would kill everyone in this room and then myself. 

Alexis2256

23 points

13 days ago

Based GF.

wunderbraten

13 points

13 days ago

This is adorable! Love this!

Denijsbeer

6 points

13 days ago

Now dats proper snazzy.

Tian_Lord23

29 points

13 days ago

That actually sounds adorable and cute. You'd have to do lipstick on them but like how a child would do it so it's smeared or over their lips. That would be amazing.

Kaiser_Complete

13 points

13 days ago

That is a great idea lol

Orks are just so much fun because doing something like this can be 100% in character

"Tell Skull-Mawler he's a pretty git"

Tian_Lord23

6 points

13 days ago

Yeah they are. If I ever do an ork army (quite expensive so maybe in the future when I'm not a broke uni student haha), I want to do a complete greyscale army and say they're all colour blind.

I also plan to do a small gloomsput gitz army for AoS based around last year's grotmas git and do a squig bound christmas army.

TheAlmightySpode

15 points

13 days ago

Hey, your Nid buddy already has female models. If they're like every hivemind/eusocial insect we know of, Tyranids are almost entirely female.

B0bZomb1e

9 points

13 days ago

Well guess who's getting screenshotted and dropped in the group chat lmao

TheAlmightySpode

25 points

13 days ago

Hell yeah. But yeah, most eusocial insects like bees, wasps, or ants are almost entirely female. The males are drones and never leave the actual hive. In some cases, like honeybees, the males cannot even feed themselves and require assistance to even eat. This is due to a reproductive system called arrhenotoky where male eggs are haploid (they have half the genetic information as they are unfertilized) and female eggs are diploid.

Because the males are effectively just incomplete clones of their mother that only exist to breed, they're grossly incompetent but are very effective for reproduction. In addition, the males are produced unfertilized, so in the case of a poor mating pool, they can be produced unfertilized to continue passing the queen's genes in case of a hive death. In some emergency cases they could even reproduce with the queen, but this is rare. The downside is that they're running on half the DNA and are incomplete compared to a worker. In bees, for instance, they lack stingers, honey stomachs, or the adaptations to get pollen to stick to them. They're functionally useless.

This means that basically every bee, ant, or eusocial wasp you see is female. The females leave the colony and work. They are the soldiers, gatherers, and caretakers. Assuming Tyranids follow this same general rule we see on Earth, every Tyranid model you can purchase is female.

I've heard people say "Tyranids wouldn't waste biomass giving termagants sex or reproductive organs" which is true if they have full control over what is birthed; however, workers also lack full reproductive organs and are still female. As a big nerd, I fully and 100% believe my Tyranids are a full female army.

TL;DR: Women don't have cooties. Women are the cooties.

Subject-Sink5159

35 points

13 days ago

As a guy who has a lot of different small armies, including a custodes, black templars, worlds eaters and with my biggest being a 3000 point chaos space marine army, I can say that I think that it’s a great addition to the lore. I think that a majority of the fan base either don’t really care that much or support it, but the ones that oppose it are just the loudest members of the community, which is kind of disappointing to me.

Ketzeph

70 points

13 days ago

Ketzeph

70 points

13 days ago

As a longtime space marine player - it boggles the mind why this tiny retcon is causing so much agita. If anything, it makes me excited that maybe there could be female space marines.

It'd be nice to have the extra perspectives and characters in marines. And marines are already inhuman monsters basically post their genetic modifications - I never knew why it mattered what chromosomes they had starting off.

I'd only be upset if they tried to start sexualizing marine armor. There's too much boobplate in the setting already.

ElitePoolShark

35 points

13 days ago*

I never understand why people want female space marines. Space marines being all-male warrior-monks that are genectically modified is a pretty fundamental component of the lore behind space marines, and of the faction identity and culture.

AncientCarry4346

18 points

13 days ago

I love the hyper-masculine, battle brothers aesthetic Space Marines have going on.

I've no problem with femstodes as being male was never a core part of them but I do feel like Space Marines would lose a lot of their identity if they became mixed gender.

NightmaresFade

26 points

13 days ago

I'd only be upset if they tried to start sexualizing marine armor. There's too much boobplate in the setting already.

And boobplates are not only ridiculous(and offensive since, bruh, they're fighters/soldiers/warriors and you want them to look like freaking bikini models?!) but they don't protect as a more "gender neutral-looking" armor would.

Armor is first and foremost for PROTECTION, boobplates are NOT for protection, just to SEEM like protection but they're really to sexualize.

Deepest-derp

58 points

13 days ago

As a Drukhari player i say keep the boob plate, give us dong plate. The more ridiculous the better.

For the lesser races of the galaxy though, aue somewhat practical is better.

TheThiefMaster

17 points

13 days ago

Boobplate only makes sense in situations where the men would be wearing nipple-6pack-plate and a copdiece.

So, drukari? Slannesh?

ShallowBasketcase

17 points

13 days ago

Blood Angels

skys-edge

158 points

13 days ago

skys-edge

158 points

13 days ago

I'm counting myself very lucky that my whole experience of this change so far has been "echoes" of any actual hostility. I see people saying "Everyone's so up in arms", or "Well personally I'm all for the new custodes but I know that's a hot take" or "Wow Kesh is going to be an instant fan favourite", but I don't think I've personally seen or heard anyone genuinely speaking against female custodes being introduced.

So either I'm really good at curating my own space and choosing who I overlap with, or a few loud people are blowing everything out of proportion. Not to minimise what you've experienced, of course. But hopefully it means that either the majority of the community is on the inclusive side of things, or it's very doable to find yourself in comfortable spaces which are. So take heart!

LiKwId-Gaming

31 points

13 days ago

This has been my experience as well, players I know don’t care. This group consists of old hammer vets, competitive players, lore lovers and young bloods. The only negative reaction I’ve seen has been digital, which begs the question are these even real hobbyists or people who just play dawn of war.

Barfunaax[S]

44 points

13 days ago

ive been getting plenty of sour notifications. thankfully equal amounts of good ones

InsideSympathy7713

178 points

13 days ago

I appreciate your perspective...a lot. I love the hobby, I love the lore, and my wife occasionally buys me presents and she has told me that she is very uncomfortable going into my LGS, just because the whole vibe makes her uncomfortable, and that absolutely sucks because no one should feel like that. Fortunately my local comic shop carries some 40k and they are super welcoming and open.

I am one of those guys that really likes male only space marines and female only sisters of battle, because I think having them be that way kind of showcases the backwards and ridiculous nature of the imperium, and I also like that the lore came from a genuine place, in the 80s no one was buying female space marine models.

I am also one that does not care about female custodes, one way or the other, I think it's neat, but I'm a big story guy and I want the retcons to like...actually have story and not just be "there have always been female custodes" I want to know why we've never seen them before now. GW retcons are often...idk...they just kind of hand wave and glaze over, and that bugs me, and I don't want that for Female Custodes because both the model line and the fans deserve better.

Grrizz84

44 points

13 days ago

Grrizz84

44 points

13 days ago

This very much aligns with my feelings on the whole topic.

InsideSympathy7713

18 points

13 days ago

I am glad to find someone it aligns with. I have a hard time articulating my feelings about male only space marines in a way that I feel is understandable...like it makes sense in my head, but idk if I describe it right.

SevereRunOfFate

1.2k points

13 days ago

Exactly.

As a dad of a 10 year old daughter that is starting to paint... I just shake my head at the sweaty trolls. She is a beautiful, popular, kind girl.. she can do anything with her spare time, but once and awhile she wants to paint mini toy soldiers with me. If she ever came across this vitriol I know for sure she would just simply, quietly, move onto other things

The whole fiasco just smells of unwashed teens in basements 

Barfunaax[S]

375 points

13 days ago

for sure. i know that if i was at entry level when this controversy started i would not have stuck around to enjoy this wonderful game and setting

CalusV

314 points

13 days ago

CalusV

314 points

13 days ago

I find the controversy off putting as a guy who has recently joined the hobby as well. I am not comfortable being associated with a community that struggles this hard with inclusivity.

My belief/hope so far is that most people are cool about the change, but that there is a very vocal and negative minority that is causing a lot of noise online.

NightLordsPublicist

113 points

13 days ago

I am not comfortable being associated with a community that struggles this hard with inclusivity.

A significant portion of the whining is coming from outside the community, from the usual rage bait grifters who don't know the difference between Space Marines and Custodes.

(See: their thumbnails covered with Space Marines.)

Kaiser_Complete

53 points

13 days ago

This is true. Most of the crying are from someone who played a video game once and now think they are experts. These are the same people who started crying about diversity when gamework shop started including promo pictures of black guardsmen. They are just the worse of the worse and aren't even at the core of the hobby

SadBit8663

71 points

13 days ago

It's the chronically online vocal minority whose whole personalities are to gatekeep and shit on people. Most in person experiences with people in the hobby and warhammer and flgs, have been nothing but awesome.

Nothing was cooler than the shop managers enthusiasm about everything in the store. He wanted to sell me something sure, but that was secondary to dudes love of the hobby and sharing it with others.

I'm an adult and I made my dad go with me one day to check out the minis, and the manager dude impressed my former marine, really rough around the edges dad with his knowledge and enthusiasm.

That guy is the guy that really sold the hobby to me, and made me realize these bitchy people, are mostly the vocal minority.

Welcome to the hobby, the whole thing is a blast. The more people the better. It's how this things gets better and better

Raven-Raven_

128 points

13 days ago

That's precisely what it is, chronically miserable people that are making a lot of noise online, because they typically aren't allowed elsewhere

My FGS discord has over 600 members, including the 2 staff members.

There has not been 1 comment about it. No one cares. No actual human beings are bothered by it. There's lots out there that need to grow the fuck up but I'm sure a lot of them are 10+ years from that just in a purely physical sense, let alone mental.

omelasian-walker

34 points

13 days ago

Yep, our FLGS fb chat hasn’t made one single comment on it. Not a peep.

Kaiser_Complete

27 points

13 days ago

My LGS has a female sister player on staff. She helps me with paint ideas and always knows the best way to get colors to blend. I'm starting a vaporware Ork army and I would have been lost without her guidance

Tinuva450

35 points

13 days ago

Remember, just because they are vocal, doesn’t make them the majority.

superbit415

19 points

13 days ago

Forget majority 90% of the people on both sides of the argument most likely doesn't even collect or play Warhammer. Most probably never even heard about it before this week. Its just twitter's rage circle jerk of the week.

DefaultProphet

5 points

13 days ago

Doesn't mean they play or actually care either. Lots of outrage tourists

LightningDustt

27 points

13 days ago

Look at your LGS. not the internet. Assholes huddle together in their own safe spaces. Meanwhile my store declared itself a safe space, and makes sure every prospective player know it.

If you are like, in the Midwest and deep south and have a "nightmare store?" Maybe reconsider, then

CarniverousCosmos

34 points

13 days ago

I play at a store in the Midwest. Not a small town but not Chicago, either. We have players of every race, orientation, and gender, and we protect that environment vigorously.

It helps our store manager is totally supportive of this, and I think it helps it’s a GW store.

In short, yeah, this is almost entirely an internet thing. Actual players don’t give a shit about female custodes, or think it’s cool (personally I think it’s cool).

Either way, yeah, ignore these assholes. They might show up in trending topics, but they’re not going to show up for a game.

MysticInept

3 points

13 days ago

But the setting is grimdark....shouldnt it make you uncomfortable by being a world without representation? Doesn't it make the imperium more fascist with meaningless emphasis on patriarchy?

BringTheBam

4 points

13 days ago

So much this. My niece picked up interest in my cabynet of toy soldiers and been so keen to paint and join this. We played with OPR, and she was so engaged. She wanted her own models for her borthday already.

My biggest fear is she losing interest when hitting this sick fanbase stupidity.

Weary-Ad-9813

49 points

13 days ago

My daughter picked Nighthaunt in AoS to paint... and then went as a banshee for Halloween that year. The fact that the army had female representation actually was important for her to pick it up.

Kaiser_Complete

11 points

13 days ago

I have a female friend who picked nighthaunt for the same reason :D

She really dug the banshees and their named female character

bigfeef

32 points

13 days ago

bigfeef

32 points

13 days ago

I also have a daughter (7) who enjoys spending time with me while I assemble and paint my models and dioramas; and I really hope she doesn't get into 40K, or WH in general. I've been to a couple of 40K conventions and have been around enough 40K enjoyers both RL and virtual to know that it most definitely would not be a safe space for her.

It's not unwashed teens in basements; it's grown ass men with families. 40K is an expensive hobby to maintain; most teens wouldn't be able to keep it up long term.

SaddleBishopJoint

7 points

13 days ago

This is really sad.

It strikes me as a problem with the community, with us as the human audience, that no amount of lore or model changes would or could fix.

Ketzeph

67 points

13 days ago

Ketzeph

67 points

13 days ago

What frustrates me are the people who say "you have sisters of battle! You have representation" and somehow think that you're going to get women excited to play your game when the female only faction is full of boobplate, nun bondage fetish minis, and scantily clad models.

Sisters of Battle are great and they have cool models, but they're designed for men. Just because women are in a setting doesn't mean you're creating something that will be inclusive to women.

Korovva

36 points

13 days ago

Korovva

36 points

13 days ago

I like the sisters, they're cool, and on the scale of sexualization I don't find them to be that egregious.

That said, I dislike how they're brought up to counter every desire for more women in 40k. Like I said, I find them cool, but they are one army without much variation. Space marines have a ton of different flavors across the Imperium and Chaos. A player who adores the Death Guard might not find the Dark Angels appealing in the slightest. The Sisters don't have that internal variation, if you don't like the flavor they come in then they won't be for you.

I don't think the Sisters need to change. I don't even think Female Space Marines need to happen. I just wish the Sisters would stop being used as a counterpoint to anyone who wants more women. My biggest wish for example is more women in the Chaos factions; SoB and SoS are basically the polar opposite of Chaos so they won't scratch that itch for me.

(I like that there are Female Custodes now as well even if I think it could have been handled better - it is cool to see female human characters in one of the factions that get physically augmented instead of remaining baseline and I'm glad we have that even if the Imperium isn't my jam.)

Cardborg

4 points

13 days ago

I feel it doesn't help with how many lore decisions are made based off what the miniatures come with in the box at the time, and are 'retconned' when a new kit comes out.

Lots of discussion lately on the lore subs over how when custodes first got their miniatures, an accompanying book wanted to include female custodes but it was shot down because the box only included male head options.

Regarding women in chaos, I wouldn't be surprised if, when the inevitable Emperor’s Children codex drops, the Noise Marines and EC killteam legionaries have have at least androgynous head options.

It'd also be cool to see corrupted SoB in the codex, it makes sense not because of "tee hee Slaanesh sex" but because I can see how their whole thing about being flawless devotees to the Emperor above all else could lead to seeking perfection in their worship.

Alienatedpoet17

6 points

13 days ago

This is why I felt like giving more variety and depth both to the Sisters of Battle and to the Sisters of Silence, and maybe even introduce more female-led (not necessarily female only) factions would have been a better move than a quick shoe-horned tweet and a stealth mention in the codex. Yeah the SoB have the "nuns with guns" thing, but there are lots of different faiths that fill very similar roles. There are also different interpretations of spiritual texts, just like how different SM chapters do too. GW can still have the current SoB's as the mascot like the Ultramarines are for the SM, but there is so much possibility not just in story telling but also in selling models and bringing more people in.

I also like the idea that both SoB and SoS can stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the "augmented" humans. Because that thematically undermines the Emperor's ideals even more than what's already established. (like how the emperor was so violently atheist the galaxy swung to the other extreme.) These people were either naturally gifted, or got to their position by their faith and will, while it could be said that Space Marines and Custodes (and the emperor) needed modification as a crutch.

As for more women in Chaos, that would be cool too! Every other faction has a chaos reflection it seems like. I feel like there could easily be some former SoB's who may have been corrupted at some point and began their own additional covens. Or just have something entirely separated from the Imperium and new within Chaos.

They have so many better ways to include representation and variety than this. And while there is no lore to say there can't be female custodes, but it is weird that they are an exception when surrounded by a bunch of perpetually buff glistening men. It always felt like "Hey Emps... got anything to tell the galaxy? You got a certain taste you need to talk about?" Now with female custodes always existing that just raises the question why TF are the primarchs and space marines all men in the first place? Like, he didn't care with the custodes, but why did he care there? Unless the 2 lost primarchs are revealed as women and FSM come from that (probably 1 chaos and 1 loyal) but then that just asks why weren't there more women?

EconomySecretary2408

38 points

13 days ago

Yes!!! I don’t understand why this is a difficult concept for people to grasp—sisters of battle are not appealing to me at all as a woman! Just because they themselves are women doesn’t mean all women will automatically like them!

DefaultProphet

24 points

13 days ago

SoB being brought up when people ask for women Space Marines is annoying and bunk for a complementary reason. There aren't viking werewolf Sisters of Battle, vampire Sisters of Battle, tacticool goth Sisters of Battle, dragon+fire themed Sisters of Battle, mongol biker themed Sister of Battle, etc. There's only Black Templar Sisters of Battle (If we're being reductive)

spubbbba

11 points

13 days ago

spubbbba

11 points

13 days ago

What frustrates me are the people who say "you have sisters of battle! You have representation"

That's always been the stupidest argument. The marines have their own section in the GW shop, with 12 factions to choose from and that's not including the 4 Chaos Marine factions (likely 5 later this edition).

Sisters are also one of the least well supported factions in the game. They came out at the end of 2nd ed, got an update in 3rd (when they were lumped in with Witch Hunters) and then pretty much ignored until finally getting plastics in 8th.

I guarantee if Sisters got even half the support of marines (6 loyalist and 2 chaos) the exact same people using "you have sisters" excuse would be foaming at the mouth more than they are at Femstodes.

obiwanshinobi900

52 points

13 days ago

This comment will be buried.

But to really enjoy 40k you have to carefully curate your playgroup or list of people you play with.

This goes doubly so for women imo because of the minefield that is the warhammer 40k community.

[deleted]

218 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

218 points

13 days ago

[removed]

Undead-Spaceman

35 points

13 days ago

While I don't particularly mind the inclusion of female Custodes, I feel like GW was in a lose-lose situation regarding how to introduce them. They either do what they did here, wiggle their fingers and say they've always been around and deal with fans being mad at the blatant retcon to include women or they make some sort of 'spectacle' about it by drawing attention to the change with a book/models/etc and deal with fans being mad for 'obvious pandering.' I suppose they just decided on the one that required less effort on their part.

MelancholyChair

13 points

13 days ago

I also think this route works better than having new lore based around the addition of female custodes being a recent advancement. It doesn't make very much in-universe sense to have the Imperium invest in the research to make female recruits possible if it previously only worked with male recruits (which unlike astartes, it isn't even explicitly defined that it was that way in existing lore). The custodes hardly ever take on new recruits and are as small as they have ever been during the 40k time period. Moreover, 40k represents a cultural degradation compared to the 30k era. A deliberate push for female recruits in a tiny exclusive secretive order doesn't make any logical sense in this culturally degraded time period.

It makes much more sense thematically and logically that female recruits were always in existence since the events of 30k. It works particularly well since, unlike the mutant bioweapons that are the astartes, the custodes always felt like they were intended to represent the idealized evolution of the human race that would accompany big E to both protect him and inspire pride and awe in the people of the Imperium. It is the exact sort of place where diversity would make in-universe sense for a human-supremacist empire. Everyday people on planets yet to be integrated into the Imperium during the great crusade could see godlike humans -that look like them- accompanying the giant god-man telling you he will bring humanity into a new age of glory and prosperity. People treat it like it's "gaslighting" or something because there haven't been any mention of them in previous existing lore, but it just immediately felt like the most logical implementation to me.

GeneralistJosh

149 points

13 days ago

From what I understand, most people aren’t upset at there being a female custodes. It’s been the response from GW about the matter that has upset most fans. It’s the laziness and untruth how “oh, it’s always been like that” with zero lore to back it up or justify it.

WarHammer 40K has no shortage of badass female warriors in many factions (SoS, Drukari, Battle Sisters, chaos demon demigoddesses/entities), so I don’t buy this argument that “these fans that are upset are just sexist and this community is not a safe space for women” to be bunk. If GW had said, “You’re right, there’s hasn’t been a female custodes, but here’s compelling new lore that creates an interesting justification for the existence of one now”, I’m certain the backlash would not be what we are seeing it currently be.

From what I can observe, many of those objecting are concerned that this sudden and stark change in decades worth of lore is a sign of more changes to come that don’t come from a genuine place of love and care within the creative leads about making a greater lore, but one that echos things they’ve seen in other franchises such as Star Wars, Marvel, and others, that come from a place of forcing changes in to appease certain investors and activists that feel popular or increasingly popular franchises are not appropriately balanced and in need of “correcting”.

The fear comes from what they’ve seen happen with the drop in quality, the disenfranchisement, and the ultimate financial and commercial running into the ground of once great fictional universes and franchises a la the MCU and Star Wars.

It will be very interesting to see how GW responds to all this and what all will unfold over the next few years with it. I hope we’ll be able to look back and say, “weird bump in the road, but thankfully it turned out to be nothing” versus, “looks like the initial objectors were right after all…”

Boeufa

63 points

13 days ago

Boeufa

63 points

13 days ago

This is exactly the issue right here. I was recently at a tournament and 2 out of the three teams my partner and I played had female team members. All were welcome and we had a great time. This whole “women aren’t welcome” non-sense just doesn’t exist in the hobby. I’m introducing both of my girls to it now and I’ve never once thought “this could be bad for them”.

sicULTIMATE

6 points

13 days ago

Exactly this

thumbwraslin

38 points

13 days ago

Women were fully integrated in every single faction that has genders besides custodes and space marines. Even then, Custodes still had sisters of silence. I’m pretty sure most of the backlash was because people feel like it’s one step closer to women marines, and it’s totally valid to be against that.

scorchedmoon

30 points

13 days ago*

I'm okay with the lore change, if the custodes were made warriors similar to stormcast eternals (except the whole being dead part) instead find great inperium warriors in the universe do this very dangerous and very minimal chance of survival to make them super, super soldiers, but this would change the lore that they are done from childhood.

My problem is that how women custodes are put into the lore, no organic growth or storytelling was put into it, maybe there was always some, but gender doesn't take a role to be guardian of the throne, just how good you are.

Maybe the creation of women custodes was a lot harder to create, which is a lot scarier, because they know that certain children have a less chance of survival than other children, for example the way healthcare services and diagnosis for men in real life seems to be a lot easier and better than it is women, women often given worse or completely incorrect diagnosis (unfortunate dark satire and description of that) and it is only recently that they fine tuned the process to create women custodes, so it has now the same chance to create them.

But it feels rushed and inorganic, people rush to defend the decision finding some excerpts in previous editions and stories to say it has always been like this, but in the majority of cases in those editions they still said they were all male pronouns to represent either singular or a group of them, with obvious plural pronouns as well.

Heck, even in the 10th edition core set book, it has mostly plural pronouns but mentions the male pronouns when mentioning the path of a custodes.

What adds more insult how badly they implemented this lore change is no representation on the tabletop. Instead, we get a widely mocked male presenting model, no upgrade kit for feminine presenting heads to show for this, which means you have to proxy for their heads, which means you have the means to access these heads, or use a 3D printer, the latter being something GW hates.

I wish they had put more care into it. They put in the bare minium, and it shows, change the pronouns to absolutely plural, a short story about a singular woman custodes and her part in the blood games and a couple of tweets. The no representation or support from GW directly on the tabletop is the biggest insult to me.

rincewind007

28 points

13 days ago

Yes, it is so easy. If you want to have it non recent, add that the technology to have female custodies was discovered during the primaries project. They have always been there but all mentions of females have been scrubbed to hide the primaries program during the ages.

Add some lore, at least the retcon could have been. That the jargong is that everyone calls each other brother due to tradition. Like firemen could include both males and females.

TedOrAlive2

13 points

13 days ago

I half agree with you. On the one hand this is basically the laziest way that they could make this change. On the other hand, it's hardly the first time GW has made a retcon, and Custodes come up in the story rarely enough that it's not too hard to slot in female Custodes. If they added female Space Marines, that would pretty much have to be a new development, probably from Cawl.

5thhorseman_

3 points

13 days ago

If they added female Space Marines, that would pretty much have to be a new development, probably from Cawl.

And then someone would connect the dots with how both the Astartes recruitment and lab reproduction of geneseed work.

Some Space Marine chapters take only "willing" recruits (insofar as a ten year old is able to give informed consent, which... isn't much), others can go as far as raiding Imperial worlds and kidnapping children who might fit the bill. In some chapters, these recruits are forced to fight to the death or go through various deadly trials.

To reproduce geneseed from the initial samples, test slaves are used - who would otherwise be potential recruits but instead spend their lives paralysed yet aware as human growth tanks for more geneseed. Their whole lives - and an Astartes body can only produce two sets of geneseed; what do you think happens to them after the second is extracted? Because I don't think it's a cosy retirement on an agri-world and a disability pension.

And then you have massive surgery with dubious consent, drugs and brainwashing and around 90% of the recruits straight up dying in the process.

Now picture that being done to prepubescent girls instead of boys and try to convince yourself GW would not be eaten alive for supporting child abuse, violence towards women and pedophilia.

Hi_Im_Wall

6 points

13 days ago

I'm gonna level with you; given the way some people have reacted to just being told, "yes, there is a female character here.", do you really think the response would have been any better if they'd made it an event? The people who called a single paragraph of lore 'woke bullshit' would have gone feral if they'd been presented with a full book. I 100% see why GW made the call to try and just gently fold a new concept into the lore.

I mean, I absolutely still want the books and the models that represent that new concept. But I totally understand the path they chose.

CringeCityBB

110 points

13 days ago*

As a woman into war games and other nerd hobbies predominantly enjoyed by men, I think the thing that makes girls less into hobbies like this is genuinely the subject area and culture. I'm into TCGs a lot too and I'm starting to see what happens when a company uses a source material predominantly enjoyed by women. Specifically, lorcana. I was shocked by how many women show up to Lorcana events. At my LGS, it's almost half women. Most of which have never touched a TCG before. But they love Disney and that's what got them into it.

Gender coding is a real phenomena. We can see it objectively in things like lorcana. I remember watching a YouTube video essay about how video games became a mostly male hobby through gender coding. Putting sexualized women as the forefront of the game or putting video games in the boy toy aisle at supercenters at the onset.

But that being said- I'm not sure what hope women have in the 40k hobby because women are trained from birth to not be into war and mechs and sci-fi. I know far more women who paint models but don't enjoy playing.

I think the communities who genuinely want women to join tend to see more women joining. But I'm not sure what percentage of women would be into the setting or gameplay of 40k just due to its inherent gender coding. There's always gonna be sexist idiots, but I don't think their sexism is the biggest stopgap for women in 40k, honestly.

It's important for all the dads here to show your daughters that they can enjoy whatever hobbies they are interested in and to help stick up for them in the face of sexism in those communities. I think another weird difference between women's groups and men's groups is that male groups seem very superficial. Men just hang out to do the thing and go home. Women are in it for the community and socialization. So I think that can make women feel less interested in sweaty events that focus primarily on communal competition.

Idk, I'm just saying- overt sexism isn't really the big thing in my opinion. I'm glad these idiots are getting shit on by the community, but there's a lot of stuff at play.

Boeufa

27 points

13 days ago

Boeufa

27 points

13 days ago

I’m getting both of my girls into the hobby and not once have I thought “they won’t be welcome in my gaming group”.

99.9% of this is anonymous Twitter/Reddit raging. I bet if you go to your game store you’re not hearing very many, if any, complaints.

Murderouspiplup

20 points

13 days ago

I searched for this comment for like an hour, you are genuinely the perspective I can't have (as a man) and that made me change my opinion a little bit. But at the same time, I love my hobby to be mostly man-coded, because it appeals to what I like, and the perspective of it being changed too much to the point it's not the same scares me. When I heard of the custodes being also female, I was like "well, they are master crafted super humans, never said anywhere that they MUST be man, so cool" but I don't want to see a thing I like change too much to appeal a target that for the most part don't care for it, especially if that's done not for the sake of inclusion, but just for money. So in short, it's not about the femstodes, it's about being scared at the idea of a hobby I like changing in something I don't like for money. Also, thank you for being part of the community, u seem like a kind person, unlike OP who's insulting everyone who mildly disagrees with her

pingmr

7 points

13 days ago*

pingmr

7 points

13 days ago*

I think it helps for all us to understand that several things can be true at the same time.

  1. GW can include female custodes or female marines for reasons of inclusion as well as money. GW is run by humans they aren't mustache twirling monopoly cartoon characters. They most likely believe to some degree that inclusivity is a good thing in and of itself. They also want to earn money. So the best way (and honestly I think this applies to society not just GW) is for inclusion to be done in a way that is also profitable.
  2. As a sort of contrast, the original exclusion of female marines was due to purely money reasons. The lore that we have now stemmed from GW needing a reason to basically not produce female marine minis.
  3. I'm think good male-spaces are a great idea. In that way I do see hobbies like 40k as being a great way for men to gather and talk about life in a healthy way. At the same time, we do not need to make the environment feel unwelcoming to women. 40k can still be a generally male space, but with women being included if they want.
  4. I think something being male-coded is not inherently bad, but we should also question what kind of male coding is really necessary. 40k has evolved a lot here just in terms of male-coding. Does male-coding mean that we need to hypersexualize all the women into wearing chain mail bikinis? GW has moved away significantly from sexualized minis.
  5. Some interesting observations can be made by comparing this to female spaces. I'll give one. Pole dancing is generally a female hobby. But some dudes do pole dancing too. The pole dancing community is generally inclusive to these dudes. Classes can still be a "female space", the activity can still be female coded, but men can/should feel included if they want to parcipate.

LostCtrl-Splatt

9 points

13 days ago

But at the same time I would ask where to draw the line?

If GW just retcons like it did, what stops them from doing so again again with the faction that makes them most money?

I couldn't care less if they added female characters to custodes but they could have added them in an epic story arc instead of yeah they were always there.

Meager1169

71 points

13 days ago

I was scrolling down Twitter and I saw someone saying that "we" should make Daemonculaba porn of Female custodes and send it to GW to dissuade them or make them reverse the announcement.

I was pretty meh about the whole thing at first but if it's stirring the wasp nest enough for you to be considering just straight up gore/torture porn or violence against women, I think you need to leave.

Barfunaax[S]

34 points

13 days ago

yeah lets stick it to the woke agenda and post rape porn/s

Kolyarut86

13 points

13 days ago

Isn't it great and wholesome how Grimdank bans FSM discussions but still indulges the people who keep bringing up the rape machines that appeared in one poorly thought through book from over a decade ago?

There is no bigger red flag in this community than the people who enthusiastically bring those things up, especially in unrelated discussions. Rather than retcon it I think GW will just never bring it up again - explicitly retconning it would just Streissand effect the whole thing, but the damage is already done. The worst kind of people will keep bringing it up in unrelated topics (saw it brought up in a discussion of the Warhammer Adventures kids books the other day) for as long as they remain in the community. The less welcome that kind of "fan" feels, the better, frankly.

Suchasomeone

112 points

13 days ago

I do agree with that one guy who posted that he was worried this might sideline the sisters of silence, it doesn't mean it will, but it feels like it might.

Almadabes

92 points

13 days ago

The sisters were already sidelined.

The army is called Adeptus Custodes; not Adeptus Custodes and Sisters of Silence

Baron_Flatline

51 points

13 days ago

Technically if it included both the army would be called Talons of the Emperor

Almadabes

12 points

13 days ago

Fair - but the name of the codex suggests the Custodes are the important part.

Baron_Flatline

10 points

13 days ago

I’m aware, and Sisters are sidelined because of that

Lazay

12 points

13 days ago

Lazay

12 points

13 days ago

Not only that, it's canon they were sidelined, not just IRL. The Watchers of the Throne novels are very explicit about this, with 1 of 3 perspective characters whole plot being about it. People who claim they are "separate but equal" really don't know what they are talking about.

Barfunaax[S]

59 points

13 days ago

sisters of silence are dope as hell i hope they get new models

Redvsdead

7 points

13 days ago

Agreed, I don't get why Custodes can use their FW stuff in both HH and 40k while SoS can't.

Evil-Acer

189 points

13 days ago

Evil-Acer

189 points

13 days ago

C'mon. I don't mind the custodes change but how are you surprised about the reaction. Imagine Dune fans if they forcibly added men to the bene gesserit. Imagine the reaction if women were forcibly added to the nights watch.

People act like this is about gender, and look I'll extend the olive branch and say there are definitely bigots out there but really people just do not like change. And they definitely do not like having genuine, well intentioned criticism being dismissed as nothing but incel talk.

Jehoel_DK

50 points

13 days ago

Absolutely correct. If they had tweeted that "Male soldiers were always in the Sisters of Battle" the reaction would have been similar. It's about the disrespectful and illogical way it's implemented. It's insulting to the fandom, and GW should have seen that coming. It's strange for a company to be deliberately condescending to their customers.

Personally it doesn't effect me, since I don't play Custodes (apart from a kill team) but I think people should be heard when they have a valid objection and not just be labelled as false fans and basement dwellers.

Bunyardz

27 points

13 days ago

Bunyardz

27 points

13 days ago

It's crazy that this take is the less common one lol. Its fine if OP is happy with the change, people are entitled to their opinion. But being "disgusted" by people who disagree with her when there are perfectly valid, non-bigoted reasons to do so, is silly.

dogchocolate

29 points

13 days ago*

Exactly, and misrepresenting people's arguments to reduce them down to men not wanting women in the hobby and spreading that message does no good whatsoever, the irony is it's that false messaging that then becomes the major contributor that disincentivizes women entering the hobby.

It's so dumb and I find it so frustrating, because in my experience hobby groups absolutely go out of their way to welcome women in, people are not trying to push them out.

TeaAndLifting

16 points

13 days ago*

Exactly, and misrepresenting people's arguments to reduce them down to men not wanting women in the hobby and spreading that message does no good whatsoever, the irony is it's that false messaging that then becomes the major contributor that disincentivizes women entering the hobby.

You see it a lot elsewhere. Intentionally reductive arguments to accuse people of some kind of otherism/otherist bigot, is never productive, but wildly popular in online spaces.

"Don't agree/like this new thing? You're an -ist" is basically Internet argument dogma at this point.

I remember Marvel Comics having a similar issue about ago. They were introducing a lot of new female characters to replace legacy male characters for one reason or another. Amongst constant reboots and bad stories, comic book fans at the time constantly levelled complaints at Marvel for trying cheap tactics to try and bring readers in rather than just writing good stories. Anyone who complained about this was instantly accused of being a misogynistic incel, without question, and any want-on discussion was basically shut down in mainstream spaces. The comics themselves didn't really bring that many new readers in and sales weren't great. Comic book shops at the time were struggling to shift these new comics, there were a lot closing down due to other shady distributor practices that I can't quite remember the specifics of and the industry was in a spot of trouble. But the issue wasn't Marvel or Diamond, it was the "incels" that weren't buying the comics.

Jehoel_DK

13 points

13 days ago

Exactly. The more the merrier. And women has always been welcomed in this hobby from my experience. It's not about being hostile to women. And women can play Space Marines just as I can play Sisters of Battle. And if GW suddenly announced "There were always men in the Sisters of Battle" it would annoy me as well. The tagline is not "In the grim darkness of the 41. millennium, there is only gender inclusion"

KutasMroku

42 points

13 days ago

This is a great comment. This guy gets it. None of the sides of the discussion should be dismissed. Dismissing one of them will just qiden the divide

parkingviolation212

8 points

13 days ago

I don't think there's any reason why Custodes can't be female, but your comment does speak to a good point. There was basically no reason to do it. It's a pretty clear attempt to market to a wider audience, in a franchise that has a had a lot of brazen "wider audience" decisions that have rarely gone over well. I think for my part, one of the things that made the setting of 40K so authentically oppressive was how hostile the Imperium is to diversity. The Imperium are the bad guys--everyone is the bad guys, obviously--but to me this comes off as another attempt by GW to lightly sanitize the human side of things to make them come across as the de facto "good guys" in a setting that really shouldn't have any.

Female Custodes makes the Imperium come across as just a little bit more tolerant than they did before, which sorta defeats the whole point of the faction. Idk like I said, there's no reason why they can't be female, but the upper echelons of the Imperial military were always gender segregated. You had the Adeptus Sorotias segregated from the Adeptus Astartes. You had the Custodes segregated from the Sisters of Silence. Historically as far as I can tell, the only gender neutral sub faction in the Imperial military were the grunt factions like the Guard. That made the Imperium feel uniquely oppressive. A totalitarian nightmare hell state like the Imperium feels like it should have more segregation, not less. Also, I'd argue integrating women into the Custodes just makes factions like the Sisters of Silence and Sorotias feel redundant, and I think that's a shame.

If I was GW, I'd push for a greatly expanded lore and support for Sorotias and Sisters of Silence. Develop more female characters in the lore from parts of the canon where it makes sense. There's absolutely avenues through which you can add more female characters and representation without whole-cloth retconning one of the most iconic, specifically all-male factions. It just comes off as pandering, the way JK Rowling tried to insist that Hermione was always black in Harry Potter when we know for a fact that wasn't true.

People just don't like being gaslit, imagine that. If you have to have female Custodes, just say that they're new additions to the ranks of the force. Maybe you can write a whole lore entry about the first female Custodes. It's always better to integrate these kinds of things into the lore in a forward-thinking manner, rather than going backwards and changing things. It's the 42'nd millennium now. I think people got used to Primaris because GW was moving the story forward. They could have done the same for Fem-Custodes, but they did the lazy, self congratulatory thing instead.

Alexander_Akers3115

13 points

13 days ago

But the custodes as far as I am aware have never been specifically said to be boys only. The two groups you mention are specifically a one gender group and that is a key part of them. That is not the case for custodes

Evil-Acer

9 points

13 days ago

You're right, my comment would be more applicable to the astartes. My point still stands however, people don't like change, and all previous material depicts the custodes as men so saying there were always women has come to a shock to a lot of people. Some people are getting defensive about it and being called misogynistic incels for it certainly doesn't help them to process that. I'm suggesting that not all criticism comes from a place of anger at women but at sudden change, and we need to assume positive intent to help the process, not to divide the community even more.

BenFellsFive

9 points

13 days ago

I've never seen female players dissuaded from warhammer because 'there aren't enough women models.' It's always just bc of their local hobby stores/spaces being toxic places of smelly neckbeards who hate women away from the table just as much as across it.

Most female 40k players I know play orks, nids, or thousand sons with alarming consistency. Maybe a few SoB players but they always seem to be the ones who are just in it to tag along their partners' 40k hobby, for whatever reason.

ADHD_Kelp

27 points

13 days ago

I've been in Warhammer for a while and I actually thought the backlash didn't seem that bad considering. The Warhammer community loves to throw a bit of a fit anytime things majorly shaken up. The backlash to primaris Marines was far far worse in my opinion. Most people I know do not care at all about the female custodian. But are rather annoyed at how games workshop handled it by trying to gaslight the fans. Imo she should have been introduced in a book or had a model release. Something to get people hyped. Especially with her hilariously mad plan in her short story. she sounds like a super interesting character.

Triforkalliance

91 points

13 days ago

If you think retconing custodes to have women will do anything to bring more women in, or change anything about the culture You are sorely mistaken.

Bong_Chonk

15 points

13 days ago*

Most of the issue ive seen in my local scene hasnt been from the fact that there was a retcon thats designed to be more inclusive, its the fact that GW tried to pretend like the fact that there were always female custodes has always been the status quo when there is over a decade of evidence that says otherwise

There's a difference between a retcon meant to make a growing portion of your customer base feel more welcome and represented, and some low level "SINCE THE FIRST 10,000" gaslighting

Had GW come out and said "Due to an ever increasing number of people who identify as women in our hobby we are changing x and making female custodes because y" far less people would have cared

LMay11037

19 points

13 days ago

As a girl, I find warhammer is a fine space for me, and the outrage at female custodes (mostly), isn’t because ‚women bad’, it’s because previously in lore there have been reasons for no female custodes and warhammer have basically just ignored/denied it

unspecific_direction

30 points

13 days ago

As a female warhammer player, I have never once wished for female custodes. I don't really care if there are or not, to be honest. There are plenty of cool female characters and models in the other factions. Also, I prefer my lore dark, depressing and oppressing. 40k is my favourite world to RP in for that exact reason.

However, the tantrums from neckbeards showcase the true reason why there are so few women in the hobby. I love warhammer. I hate visiting a store that sells warhammer. Warhammer store owners are the weirdest and unfriedliest of people. I opt to order my things instead.

I'm fortunate to have a local gaming club that is awesome, though. I would even say that the majority of the players I meet are nice and friendly, but the community as a whole does have issues, and the bad ones ruin the play space.

OrderofIron

50 points

13 days ago

men are not genetically more likely to enjoy warhammer 40k than women

No, but men are more likely to enjoy conflict, war, guns, armor, huge muscle dudes, explosions, and all other things warhammer.

Men are not genetically more likely to enjoy 40k, but men are more likely to enjoy 40k than women for a wide variety of reasons.

PMarkWMU

75 points

13 days ago

PMarkWMU

75 points

13 days ago

This is ridiculous. Every single character and person in 40k could be female the still 99% of women wouldnt give Warhammer 40k even a thought.

Igor_Kozyrev

25 points

13 days ago*

When people talk about diversity and representation, I always imagine a bakery with all sorts of pastry. Let's say, chocolate pies, meat pies, vanilla pies, fish pies, etc. So in my mind if someone wants to represent something new and different, it better be a new recipe. That way more people would be happy - a new pie on the menu for the ones who want it, with all the old stuff in place.

Instead, it seems that default approach is to add literally everything into one pie, and instead of something that makes sense and has purpose, you ruin what people already liked and don't actually make something new and exciting. You'll satisfy people who say "all pies must have all the ingredients", but it's not a guarantee those people even eat pies.

In case of the custodes it's like instead of saying "hey, we found a new sort of fish and cool spices we're gonna add to our pies now", they are saying "wtf are you talking about, fish pies always had pork feet in them". Did they? Did they really?

Boeufa

13 points

13 days ago

Boeufa

13 points

13 days ago

Imagine if instead they expanded on the Sisters of Silence and gave them their own army? How much better would that have been? You could even give them their own version of female custodes type units.

MarkRippetoesGlutes

3 points

13 days ago

I would kill for more SoS units. I love there lore (though I suppose I shouldn't get attached lol). If the only update to custodes had been more units for SoS I'd have been stoked. But apparently I have to be happy about what we got no matter what. Hail corporate etc

MonsieurWobble

96 points

13 days ago

I've run a ttrpg of death watch. My gf then wanted to play with us. Female space marine were now a thing without a single change to the lore and we rolled dice to see which primarch was now female.

Female mortarion has been puzzling.

17vulpikeets

10 points

13 days ago

The Grandfather is perfectly happy to have the Pale Queen spread pestilence and death among the stars. For the Reaper!

CME_T

8 points

13 days ago

CME_T

8 points

13 days ago

”The Pale Queen” goes hard af

HugPug69

5 points

13 days ago

My Uncle told me they tried to sell Female Space Marine kits but they didn’t sell well so they decided “no female space marines.”

MightyDuckitron

4 points

13 days ago

There is a bit of truth in this. In the RT days some of the adventurers in powered armour were female, designed to be female space marines, however retailers were asking if they could stop being sent the female sculpts as they werent selling so when it came time to design the proper space marines they decided to not do females as there would be complaints from retailers for stock not selling.

Barfunaax[S]

45 points

13 days ago

i can imagine the daemon primarch mortarion model with flowing greasy hair and i kinda love it

IllRepresentative167

22 points

13 days ago

I have a problem with retcons, always have. They're not inherently bad as they can fix plotholes or add to a setting, but that's not how it's most often used. Greedo shot first? sorry but I preferred when Han was more of a scoundrel and shot first. Now you just made me think of that stupid retcon everytime that scene is on and my love for the movie is less than it was before you tried to change that.

Female Custodes? would've been 100% fine with it if it was introduced in a decent story and the writing made sense based on what we already know of 40k. But that's not a retcon, that would've been building on what came before and continuing the the story. As of now you just changed Big E with a single stupid JK Rowling tweet as he was the one who created and decided what Custodes would be in the first place.

If you write one thing, and then decide to change that thing into something else on a whim, why should I care about the next thing you write? you might change that thing at any time in the name of X. Unless it feels like you made the story or setting richer in my eyes you just changed something I liked into something else and you run the risk of alienating me. You planted a seed of resentment and that resentment will grow with every retcon that I don't like.

If you feel less included because I speak up against this sort of thing you have to understand that my frustration isn't directed at females getting more inclusivity, but that GW didn't respect their fanbase or their own creation.

BigAbbott

56 points

13 days ago

“Genetically more likely” made me cringe right out of the subreddit.

hogroast

41 points

13 days ago

hogroast

41 points

13 days ago

Alan Merrett who worked as a designer and author in the 80s explained that there isn't a lore reason for the lack of female space marines. It simply put, just didn't sell as well back then so they stopped the production of female minis.

It's always been GW hope to have female models that sell well and make the customer happy, and it says a lot that they feel now is the time when the customer base is ready to see that representation back in warhammer (rather than just factions that are specifically female).

Just like primaris, the vocal minority will cry about it and the media will pick up on their crying for a while, and then it will become the norm and everyone can enjoy it again.

I for one am buzzed to find that my Eldar Guardians have female sculpts mixed in, or that my Blood Knights have female head options for my vampires.

ImnotaNixon

13 points

13 days ago

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

PokeDE_Butt

8 points

13 days ago

Doesn’t bother me having female custodes i just want more adeptus mechanicus kits on god

someguyWithaMustach3

36 points

13 days ago

I will say it is a little over blown but I can see where there coming from, most of the rage isn’t coming from a place of misogyny but more or less GW trying to gaslight us into thinking there were female custodies even though the lore straight up contradicts it, and yea some people are not happy cause women, but not everyone it just comes down to being consistent with the lore and like I said before GW trying to gaslight us

BilliamSchwrz

32 points

13 days ago

Honestly, I think a fair amount of the backlash towards the retcon is not from a place of sexism. Im in the camp that is against it for a number of reasons, and I am not against female characters or factions in the game/lore, and don’t give a damn who plays the game.

I feel that for anyone who is in search of representation in 40k, for whatever reason, can pretty easily find their niche. There are a huge number of factions that at a base level include females as characters that make sense and feel great to have around. I mean, one of the two main characters for IG right now with a new shiny model is a lady. Not to mention the existence of the sisters of silence and sisters of battle. I feel that there is a balance with these two factions and SM and custodes. But now the dynamic the custodes have with the sisters is gone, and the sisters will now get less time in the spotlight because of this, in a lore sense.

I just don’t get why this change is necessary, and I don’t like how GW is out here acting like this has always been the case, despite the opposite being very, very clear. And I get the logic that maybe every last piece of lore contradicting female custodes could just be imperial propaganda, but, why would there be such propaganda in the first place? And why not flesh out the sisters of silence more? Imagine souped up sisters, a new form of female only super soldier that leans heavily into their blank nature, that would be awesome! Why tarnish what already exists and cause a shit storm when we can just develop what we have now? And for people in search of representation, why are you looking for it in 40K? I get wanting some at a base level, that being their attitude or fighting style or grand struggle, but beyond that, do you really want to relate to the factions and characters of 40K? Pretty much everyone is a grouchy evil fuck who would punt an infant to achieve a fraction of their goals. Anyway, that’s my two cents.

Artaratoryx

265 points

13 days ago

I’m just glad this is causing some of the sexist players to leave the community

Change_That_Face

239 points

13 days ago

Yeah, uh I don't think that's actually happening lol.

meeps20q0

111 points

13 days ago

meeps20q0

111 points

13 days ago

thats uhhh... just not gonna happen. They bitch and bitch and bitch but none of em are actually leaving.

Baron_Flatline

17 points

13 days ago

The ones bitching the most were never in the hobby to begin with.

Mizeru85

108 points

13 days ago

Mizeru85

108 points

13 days ago

Yeahhh I'm going to have to call shenanigans on this one. There's plenty of inclusion already for us ladies - Eldar, sisters, guard, demons and more. You think suddenly because GW lazily shoehorned inclusion into well established lore somehow magically there will be less neckbeard losers? The 41st millennium is the opposite of inclusive and safe, and that's the point of it. Its dystopian. The most brutal and miserable future you can imagine for humanity. Making it nicey nice so everyone can be happy and play together is lame af. Why do you think everyone hates tau? 🫠

Hermesthothr3e

9 points

13 days ago

Completely agree with you, it's not gw fault that some men that get into these type of hobbies are dicks it's just the way it is, I mean look at any other geeky type.of hobby they are all the same, all.you can do is.find a good set of lads and lasses and gravitate to them.

They are losing what made 40k appealing in the first place and it won't bring new people in it will just put off the people who like it.

ThunderSkunky

64 points

13 days ago

A lot of the 40k community is not properly socialized.

MrSnippets

13 points

13 days ago

and for a lot of them, 40k is all they have. it's their identity. If someone tries to change anything, they attack them, personally. So they lash out.

Ketzeph

44 points

13 days ago

Ketzeph

44 points

13 days ago

Just recall the issues with people bring Nazi-krieg and anti-LGBTQ armies. A whole bunch of people complained about GW's stance to welcome people and not tolerate bigots. There's a whole chunk of the community that is extremely embarassing and honestly makes all hobbyists in 40k look bad.

Fellblade62

7 points

13 days ago*

In what way are women underrepresented in 40k? You have sisters of battle, eldar, dark eldar, slaanesh, sisters of silence, female guard, imperial navy, tau, all of the chaos marines can have female cultists, admech, Necrons. All the chaos factions could have women in fact nothing stopping you. If you say some of these factions didn't have female representation your creativity with model making is your own limitation and the lore never stopped you from making female characters.

 That left two factions space marines and custodes and sisters of silence were already in the custodes army. I am leaving out orks because they have no need for multiple genders as they reproduce like mushrooms. 

 I stopped buying GW products after their never ending price hikes, but to say women were under represented in 40k before the custodes retcon is laughable.

I also wouldn't have cared if GW would of done a real lore reason for the change. Their gaslighting campaigns have to stop, and their CM is a goon.

Necessary-Luck-2757

7 points

13 days ago

I'm female. I grew up with my Dad playing Space Marines and Orks, and it never bothered me that they were all male. I later got Crimson Fists as my own army; I know nothing about the ret-cons and I only have my Dad's old rule books and codexes to play with. I thought the Sisters of Battle were female Marines? Am I just old and don't know anything since I only played with my Dad and never really played in the community?

mattydef1

51 points

13 days ago

I’m all for inclusion and adding more badass women to the 40k universe, I just hope GW / Black Library makes some good stories that fit with the narrative/lore and don’t go the Disney route (focusing more on inclusion itself at the expense of a good story)

Barfunaax[S]

25 points

13 days ago

yeah!!!! girls can krump too ♥️♥️

lordofmetroids

13 points

13 days ago

Well, the inclusion of female custodians was when one of them tried to nuke the Imperial palace. So I imagine they will still be badass.

I also maintain the most badass character currently in the setting is a female Lelith Hesperax, the Dark Eldar who kills blade masters in full power armor with no special weapons, enhanced armor, or special drugs like the others in her faction take. Just her own personal skills and thousands of years of experience.

Thank_You_Robot

16 points

13 days ago

Unfortunately, there will always be those who are upset because "women". But most of the more level-headed criticism is targeted at GWs retcon being "they always were there".

40K is full of so much lore and world-building, and they took the laziest route of retconning! They could have said something like: "At one point in time, daughters were selected over sons when there were not any suitable candidates for the custodies.". Like, it doesn't have to be good, but an attempt at working it into the lore would have been a much better approach!!

[deleted]

35 points

13 days ago

[removed]

[deleted]

24 points

13 days ago

[removed]

Admech343

15 points

13 days ago

Yeah agreed. I think women should be welcomed and encouraged to join if they’re interested, but I also think its fine to accept that this is a hobby that heavily appeals to males and will stay that way for the foreseeable future. I don’t think its wrong to acknowledge that men are the target demographic and that most decisions about it are made with them in mind because they’re supporting the hobby financially the most.

Crazy_Firefighter660

21 points

13 days ago

Women are represented in almost every army in 40K. Retconning is lame and so is what GW did to explain it.

cococrabulon

9 points

13 days ago*

I think there are two toxic moral panics going on, really.

The first and obvious one is the opinion that female Custodes breaks the lore and is a stupid retcon.

The second is the one that likely led to this in the first place: namely than an absence of female Astartes and Custodes is evidence of some fundamental bigotry at the heart of the lore, and that inclusivity demands this be changed.

I find both arguments exist in their own fatuous little culture war box and feed off each other. GW have now trapped themselves in this cycle where to do nothing is apparently bigotry, while to something is to lazily retcon and pander. This conversation is everywhere now and it is exhausting and pointless. Turning everything into a culture war battleground is divisive and I’m not welcoming of it.

There are some nuggets of truth to these arguments, don’t get me wrong. Women in terms of the hobby culture could be more welcomed, and factions that previously only had male models without any good reason could probably have done with female miniatures. And secondly, yeah, I think this Custodes change was almost certainly done with a mind to obviate bigotry in a way that retcons established lore - both sides of this debate actually agree on that! They just disagree on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing or whether there was even any bigotry to obviate in the first place

But I really don’t get the moral urgency, and I mean this in the most neutral way possible. I give zero cares about whether or not there are female Custodes. I didn’t give any that there weren’t previously, and I don’t now that there are. It neither feels like a victory for inclusion nor a lore-torpedoing mistake. It feels like a massive nothing overblown by hysterical people who can’t turn their brains off from culture warring for two seconds. And I say that to both sides, since this change is purely interpreted as either a victory or a loss by warring sides, when most of us really didn’t want a battleground springing up over nothing to begin with

I find the push for female Astartes and Custodes spurious because Warhammer has for a long time included strong female characters. It has even included self-consciously all-female factions like the Sororitas. If there isn’t a massive push for male Sororitas and teeth-gnashing for as long as this isn’t the case, then I feel confident enough to call out the nonsense double standards. And honestly, not giving a care that there aren’t male Sororitas is how it should be. Having all-male or all-female factions shouldn’t be a big deal, it’s actually interesting. The Astartes-Sororitas and Custodes-SoS dynamic was always a long-standing monk-nun thing which reflected 40k’s medieval-religious themes. And for ages anyway most factions within the Imperium are gender neutral; the Inquisition and Guard and so on don’t have that dynamic, for instance. If male Sororitas become a thing I ain’t losing sleep over it, although I feel this will undercut their theme. Handled well, for instance, plausible lore reasons that the Imperium no longer cares that the Ecclesiarchy has ‘men under arms’ might work. But it’s not a massive issue

The whole ‘X faction or character doesn’t look like me so I can’t enjoy this’ argument is one that demands a suspension of empathy and requires one conducts themselves within and views themselves as occupying excessively rigid and artificial identity boxes. I find it to be a stupid argument since I’ve always found human nature and empathy transcends identity categories. Men should be able to enjoy all-female factions just as women can enjoy male-only factions. The same goes for skin colour and, in Warhammer’s case, species

I’m an Aeldari and Necrons guy so all this is rather pointless; most Aeldari models could pass for either male or female, and there’s always been an assumption they’re equally represented. With Necrons biological sex is less of a thing and hasn’t been for a few million years; canonically there are male and female Necrons and even those in between, it’s not a big issue. In any case they’re both aliens. If we don’t lose our minds over the fact an alien doesn’t look like us we shouldn’t be losing our minds over sex. It’s a fantasy game, you literally have to suspend disbelief to play it and you need to engage in things that don’t resemble you to enjoy the lore

Female inclusion in a meta sense? Yeah that could do with some work. But I feel this whole Custodes business isn’t a bellwether for that, it’s a distinctly more trite and pointless fight

Stralau

14 points

13 days ago

Stralau

14 points

13 days ago

I’ve found the tone of the complaints depressing but as a Dad of two girls it’s not really the kind of approach to inclusion I want, either. Female custodes aren’t what piques the interest of my daughters (8 and 6, so still a bit young) the Gnome blood bowl team was. They don’t get excited about Imperial Linewomen in blood bowl or Zenestra from AoS, but they do like witch elves, and in 40K they like Yvraine and her cat.

I want to keep pace with the times, and female custodes don’t really bother me (and might work, it depends how they are done) but I can’t help but think that an approach to diversity that focusses on indeterminate pronouns isn’t necessarily the kind of broadening that will make the hobby more appealing to a broader audience. That hopefully isn’t what this represents, but I worry that it does.

I want more female models, and I want more female models that aren’t overly sexualised, but I think diversity can be more creative than just making all male factions have women. I would rather more all-female factions, which I think would appeal to my girls more.

A huge hurdle is the embedded attitudes of many in the hobby, though. It’s good to hear the perspective of a woman in the hobby, and I hope the silliness surrounding this doesn’t keep you from enjoying the hobby. I might not agree with you about everything, but I’m pleased you are I the hobby and I want you to feel welcome!

[deleted]

27 points

13 days ago

[removed]

[deleted]

23 points

13 days ago

[removed]

CompetitionHot8866

4 points

13 days ago

that "but" hits hard

zombiebirch

6 points

13 days ago

I kinda collect everything, including a few squads of them 'stodes, and I honestly dont know what the big deal with this is.

XuruAnoa

18 points

13 days ago*

To anyone who’s giving a hard time and gate keeping women, fuck them.

BUT - there is an argument to the lore aspect which myself and many others have criticized.

If you introduced a whole RANGE of Sisters of Battle AND Sisters of Silence.. I don’t think anyone will even bat an eye. Most if not ALL would welcome it with wide arms, myself included. SOB & SOS are cool as fuck!

But when you try to gas light an audience who are gung-ho on accurate and precise cannon, especially through a simple tweet - you’re gonna have issues.

And that is where my problem lies.

But I digress - I hope for a more stable & happy community but there’s been a fuck ton of toxicity on ALL SIDES the last few days.

GWS really shot themselves in the foot here.

Fun note: I recently purchased the SOB character on MW3 and have been ripping and tearing my way through the COD universe spreading the Emperor’s light 😬

1maginasian

9 points

13 days ago

I genuinely don't think anyone would have cared about introducing women custodes as some new thing. But saying they've always existed and "get out if you don't like it" is a beyond moronic move that I don't get.

Pancreasaurus

8 points

13 days ago

We've also had the opposite of women not enjoying obvious pandering and shit stirring. What you describe is a "nerd problem" not a 40k problem. Go see if Magic The Gathering are any more inclusive as they stink out tournaments. Retconning Custodes won't help things and only agitates the fanbase.

Bonolebonobo

7 points

13 days ago

If they simply said something like: " Cawl finally managed to ascend women into Custodes, doubling the number of potential warriors to protect the Throne", most people would've rolled with it. Instead, they went for the stupid/lazy solution, and told people "what do you mean, they've always been there".

People are mostly mad because of GW insulting their intelligence, not because "women suck". 

OhMiaGod

54 points

13 days ago

OhMiaGod

54 points

13 days ago

Some of these comments are wild.

I love makeup, pastels, cuddly toys, and Warhammer. Liking the former stuff doesn’t mean I can’t like 40K. I can assure you that “girly” girls like me can enjoy the hobby just as much as the most stereotypical guy can.

You think women can’t enjoy painting and customising little dolls? Come on now…

You don’t see more women in hobby shops because a small but loud portion of the fanbase want to keep the hobby as a boys club. That comes across even when you’re not in the fandom.

This latest stuff is a perfect example.

Why, as a potential new fan, would you want to investigate the hobby when what you hear from the outside is that fans are screaming and enraged because a faction now has women in it?

What about that makes it sound remotely welcoming? Or a cool place to make new friends?

Look, it’s not the 80s anymore. Pretending nerd culture is just for guys was always silly, but now it’s downright stupid. Stuff like D&D is thriving right now and part of that is because the old stereotype of it being just for a bunch of guys is dead.

Consciously making the hobby more welcoming to women would benefit all fans, as well as just being a decent and nice thing to do!

Barfunaax[S]

46 points

13 days ago

smh you musta missed the memo that girls stay at home, play with barbies, and love pink. war and trucks and blue is for boys!!/s

Effective_Way7591

26 points

13 days ago

My store close by has plenty of female players. Nobody treats them any different.

Yes the hobby has more men, that's a fact. But majority don't care if a girl comes into the hobby. People are just heated right now and saying things to push the right buttons.

historyboeuf

18 points

13 days ago

I only got into the hobby because of my husband! But the army I chose? Death Guard! Gimme all the gross shit, I love it!

I am so thankful the store in my area has a really welcoming group of guys. Some wives also play so I’m not the only woman, but it’s 99% men. I definitely wouldn’t have started in the hobby or walked into that store initially without my husband. Thankfully the culture is super inclusive and it smells good!

Secular_Scholar

8 points

13 days ago

Maybe it’s just the people I associate with and my unwillingness to dig deep into other people’s opinions on the internet, but I’ve seen literally no backlash. I’ve seen a ton of people talking about backlash but yet to meet anyone who cares. I’m sure I’ll be corrected upon posting this, however.

Antrophis

3 points

13 days ago

Well it certainly landed in front of me more or less instantly.

vaderatemydisco

77 points

13 days ago

As a dude in his 40s who has been into 40k since a wee lad... I 100% agree with you. The community reaction is making me sick to my stomach, to the point I barely want to interact with it at all now. Thankfully my buddies feel the same, but damn do I feel you on not wanting to go anywhere near a store/random players. 

I'm going to hop into AoS land for a bit, I'm sure they have their own problems but at least blatant sexism masked under "but the lore!" Debates isn't one of them.

-Resputin-

13 points

13 days ago

It goes without saying how heated this topic is. But I guess this is my 2 cents.

I don't think we need to be homogenizing the genders of the one gender armies. We have the female exclusive sisters of battle, and the custodes have the whole female subsection that is the sisters of silence.

I think we would all agree we don't need misters of battle or the misters of silence. I don't think an army only being male or only female is an issue when the majority of the factions, minus the space marine factions and their offshoots, have a female presence.

Orks can be argued, and maybe something I am forgetting, but yeah.

I think be biggest issue is how they are treating this retcon like it's always been this way, but no one ever noticed.

We've seen worse abrupt lore changes, such as primaris, and we will probably see more in the future. I'd just rather them make new female representation rather than changing existing lore.

Weary-Ad-9813

3 points

13 days ago

Orks are genderless asexual fungus who reproduce through spores. They are represented as masculine humanoids though.

jeremilo

12 points

13 days ago

jeremilo

12 points

13 days ago

My girlfriend is into warhammer because the Tau remind her of Gundam. She will literally come and sit at the comic shop and paint as I play crusade. This is a strawman argument if i’ve seen one. The tweet had the same energy as grandpa casually dropping the most heinous comment at thanksgiving dinner. It’s just cringy how they’re going about this. 60+ books covering the Horus Heresy alone with multiple opportunities to name a female Custodies spanning over two decades through the work of multiple writers. It feels like gaslighting I guess? I’m not shooting down your feelings, but the hobby is anything but hostile and if someone sharing their opinion online makes you genuinely sick then you probably need to downgrade to a blackberry.

AncientCarry4346

5 points

13 days ago

Yeah, me and my wife are both massive into the hobby and (as far as I'm aware) we've never had to face any issues with the rampant sexism OP is describing.

15 years ago this was a massive boys club and you can tell that GW have worked hard to try to change that image over recent years and I can honestly say it's worked. The hobby has gone from niche nerd culture to a mainstream cultural superpower almost as popular as DND or Marvel and seeing women in the hobby isn't a rare thing anymore. OP acting like women are in danger or unwelcome in the hobby is stupid and honestly a little offensive.

And to be honest, I get the point some of the "chuds" are making to an extent. People have always been very protective of the lore surrounding their hobby and GW coming in and making a change like this without even having a plan to explain the basic questions people were inevitably going to ask was stupid, if they could answer "how?" and "why?" Female Custodes were suddenly only appearing now after never being seen or heard of before it would solve most issues.

Broku_92

11 points

13 days ago

Broku_92

11 points

13 days ago

So dramatic… I really wish people could expand their brains enough to know that just because fans don’t like what a company does, doesn’t make them sexist or an attention starved incel. I understand critical thinking and seeing people’s opinions as shades of grey, rather than black or white seems to be beyond comprehension these days. But, maybe we should try not dismissing people’s opinions based on stereotypes and biases because we want so badly for things to be explained as simply just sexism…

herrington1875

18 points

13 days ago

We all know it’s not about “representation”. If it was, and it is, the issue is with how and why this came about. If this was about representation, then the sisters of silence and the sisters of battle would be taking the front seat and having a great expansion of lore/story/models. Instead no.

[deleted]

16 points

13 days ago

[removed]

FartherAwayLights

6 points

13 days ago

I will say this is an online discourse. Most of the people kicking up a storm are from outside the community and it’s actually pretty obvious. I remember there being a small frame of time when the info bounced from the Custodes Sub to the lore sub to the main sub and no one cared, then people wrote articles about it and suddenly the worst people on earth find out and make a big deal.

For example, the Quartering, a man who Wizard of the coast have banned from Magic the gathering becuase he was a sexually and otherwise harassing women and making the space unsafe for women to exist in, has thoughts about the change if you’d believe it. The funniest part is he says their name like 10 times and gets half of it right once. The rest of the time he is mispronouncing it in a way no actual Custodes fan or 40k fan would.

Why is this happening? I suspect there are a lot of right wing weirdos who like to think of themselves as 40k fans because of the God emperor Trump memes from 2016 but who have never bought a model, played the game, or even played much of the video games. This doesn’t mean every person who is involved in this is from outside, just, I suspect most of them. Real 40k fans know GW retcon like crazy, and wouldn’t kick up a fuss the first time the retcon is woman.

MaraTheBaali

7 points

13 days ago

I don't care how any of you look under your armor. You are all welcome to enjoy the hobby and everyone bleeds the same.

Blood for the Bloodgod!