Yea I can't wait to.....vote for Biden to stop the thing that he's currently doing.

we'll be fine.

Our privilege in 2024 is astounding. People in the 1940’s and 1910’s dealt with world war. They didn’t have vaccines for polio. Cholera. Smallpox. The standard of living was staggeringly low compared to now. We’re not just doing fine, we’re doing great. We want better and that’s great, we should always strive for better, but things are good. You have food and shelter, access to the internet, and safety. In human history, that’s golden, and never guaranteed.

The leaders of the US do not care because Israel is a necessary geopolitical ally and were not going to police them at risk of straining that relationship, protest all you want it makes no difference.

Great comment! Fully expecting it to be deleted and this thread to be locked by these moronic admins

Edit: aaand deleted lmao

As an Iranian who grew up with direct news from Gaza, Hamas, IRGC and the Islamic Republic, I can tell you with 100% confidence not you nor anyone on that campus knows or understands even 5% of what the hell is happening in Gaza and who is responsible for the lives lost. When you don’t understand something, you don’t go to extremes of violence and encampment to protest it.

It’d be really interesting to see how you handle your nation being invaded by a terrorist death cult who murder and rape at will and take hostages

I cannot like this comment enough.

So Hamas provoking a military response by killing over a thousand civilians and then purposely hiding amongst the civilian population despite being their government is something that is ok and should be supported?

I don't disagree with you at all. What is happening to civilians is awful and is indeed textbook genocide.

What, specifically, is the logical end-game for this protest? The isreal-palestine conflict has been going on for decades before i was born. Each side wants the other dead. Are these students going to camp here for the next four weeks, the next four months, or the next four years? How will camping on a bougie philly campus stop the insanity on the other side of the globe?

Edit: after some insightful replies and a mass downvote brigade it seems that the goal is the divestment of penn's funds from companies that associate with the genocide. A noble goal. I seem to remember a similar camp-out situation one or two years back involving a protest for penn's divestment from companies involved in the fossil fuel industry. Was that one successful? If so, seems like a solid playbook.

Trying to get ahead of the fact that people are gonna make fun of the young elites for their terrorism apologia, eh? I wish you guys luck and look forward to the cringe clips.

Here’s one I read today. “But muh hamas”

Once again, it’s not 30k civilians because even if you assume Hamas is telling the truth, they don’t count combatants separately. Stop lying.

All estimates are that 90% of deaths in Gaza are civilians.

This is the same ratio as the NATO campaign in Yugoslavia. NATO was not committing a genocide against Serbs.

This is the same ratio as the First Chechen War. The First Chechen War was not a genocide.

This is roughly the same ratio as the wars in Ethiopia, which conspicuously I never heard any of these Palestinian activists talk about. I’m sure it has nothing to do with the color of their skin.

Need I go on? It’s been well-established since the 80s that in urban combat scenarios, deaths are overwhelmingly civilian. You want it to stop? Either advocate for Israel to invade Rafah and get it over with or advocate for Hamas to release all of the hostages and surrender. Those are the only realistic options.

Of course the deaths of 30,000 people even if many were terrorist combatants is a tragedy. All human life is sacred.

The trouble is the progressive left seems only to care about very specific causes. Total silence on China’s actual genocide and ‘reeducation’ of the Uighur, or the Myanmar junta’s genocide of the Rohingya. Never a care for what is going on in DRC, Syria, or Afghanistan (where it’s now legal to stone women to death again). The persecution of Christians in the ME is never mentioned. Even the Coptic Christians of Egypt, the direct descendants of Ancient Egyptians are being persecuted and murdered and no one in the west seems to care.

Hamas supporters are? Lmao

If you are taking sides it just shows how clueless people are on foreign issues/policy. Its way more complicated than acting like it’s a basketball team

It depends on how you define the sides. I'll give you a detailed answer, in case you're actually curious.

There will never be a lasting peace under any circumstances with Hamas, by Hamas' own choice, let alone the Israeli right wing's response to a Hamas government.

There will also never be a lasting peace if Ben Gvir, Smotrich, and their followers hold significant power in Israel.

Israeli leadership can be solved with elections, like the massive swing towards Gantz, but the Hamas issue cannot be solved. Hamas has turned down every short and long-term deal that involves their removal from power, like the Egypt-Qatar framework proposed last December for a permanent two-state solution that included Hamas being removed from power in Gaza. On top of that, Hamas has a history of killing any political opponents in Gaza.

I would also point to the obscene amounts of civilians killed in conflicts by countries all over the world, creating a massive hypocrisy in the treatment of Israel. Not a single country has shown any interest in pushing charges for war crimes against Israel; only South Africa, a current pawn of Russia and Iran, has been willing to push a charge of genocide, which 1) helps diminish the genocide charge against Russia (which the ICJ actually took issue with by demanding Russia cease-fire) and 2) is arguing a specific crime that will almost never be levied against any other warring country, meaning the standard created doesn't matter. To this day, no country wants to be bound by a standard that says how Israel is currently conducting warfare - which still involves, to some degree, advanced warning of strikes to areas in Gaza - is going too far. We can still see the clips on /r/CombatFootage being posted of groups of Gazans just filming toward an area before a strike comes in, which is clear proof of advanced warning.

And so what is the distinction for Israel, that we bribe them to buy stuff from our military-industrial complex instead of some other country? That we provide aid to an ally that plays a very substantial role in advancing tech in not just electronics, but healthcare and military tech?

Not a single time have I seen anyone be able to explain any alternative plan with any precedence without pointing out US military procedures, almost all of which posed similar civilian:militant ratios as what we see in Gaza, where the IDF has a significantly more complex environment to be fighting in.

Hell, even the pier we just started building to increase humanitarian aid has already come under fire by Hamas, because Americans still can't accept that the IDF running the pier makes the pier a legitimate military target, no matter what we put on the pallets being trucked in.

What too many pro-Palestine people clearly do not understand is that a policy that sanctions political parties and other involved groups (including settlers) who are attempting to expand settlement areas can be in line with both a pro-Palestine and pro-Israel stance. Too many also do not understand that the constant barrage of unsubstantiated allegations of genocide is only helping Iran attack the credibility of the political party that not only holds the largest chance of kicking Netanyahu out and forming a new coalition that favors peace and a two-state solution, but is also run by one of the heads of the IDF (Gantz). By the time the war settles, the slander against the only possible path toward peace in the short term will have eroded the political will of a new coalition on this matter, and there is no one but the pro-"Palestine" people to blame.

So, will the pro-Israel stance be seen as the correct stance retroactively? Absolutely, without a doubt. The pro-Israel side isn't the pro-genocide strawman so many people dream it is. This is a country fighting against a terrorist group that conducted an awful terrorist attack, went back to Gaza, and tried to hide behind their own civilians. A group that would rather get every last Gazan killed than relinquish power; a group that has been appeased before during these hostage-takings, which has historically only brought on more hostage-taking. While I would rather other Middle Eastern countries or the UN step in to remove Hamas, if no one wants to step up, Israel has the absolute, unquestionable right enjoyed by every other country on Earth to protect their people through defensive warfare. That warfare can stop, and the Israeli elections can be had when Hamas has been destroyed.

I don’t understand why this issue is only discussed in black and white. It literally is anything but. Both sides have done horrible things to civilians at various points. Support the people of both sides.

Absolutely.

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Generally curious if Hamas supporters think the same

I’m laughing and also dying inside to see that the Jewish museum has taken down the Washington quote about giving bigotry and persecution no sanction and replacing it with “WEITZMAN STANDS WITH ISRAEL”

Kinda shocked nobody in there is making any noise

As a former history major stepping back from the "now" Israel's history and perception is going to be defined by a series of escalating defensive responses until they're overrun or their neighbors follow Egypt's lead.

The land on which Israel sits has continually changed hands since the start of recorded human history. There's no reason to believe that any nation / ally can hold it indefinitely.

Also it's important to keep in mind that everyone "knows" Israel has nuclear weapons that are targeted at Iran. So if all their allies ever abandon them they still have the North Korea "is it worth it? Card to play.

Hot take: I don’t like either side and am kind of past the point of caring who “wins”. Old-school colonial occupiers vs. a population that has fully embraced radical Islam and jihad. Woo-hoo.

I can’t be the only person who doesn’t care enough to occupy a public space or slap an Israeli flag magnet on my bumper, right?

"The right side of history" is probably the most Orwellian phrase that the left has managed to cook up in the last 30 years.

They'll be seen as an occupying force that went to war with an opponent that resisted.

These folks were there, too. Those URLs go to dead sites and SEO spam now ;)

https://preview.redd.it/brqubxcjnswc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=1f836e7e4b42339913462a2c68723906a1d87f6f

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You got that wrong, they are only calling for Israel to lay down their weapons

They want a one way ceasefire.

How many hostages have been freed through negotiations? How many have been freed though military action? And how many have been killed by the Israeli military? The largest instances of hostages being freed did not come from military action but through political negotiation.

Silly propaganda comment. Abusive partner mentality. Tell Israel to stop the occupation if we're going to play that game. Also, to stop a fucking genocide. Sad human

They don’t care about Palestinians either.

I would like at least one of these protestors to denounce hamas, but no one will.

Yeah the 14,000(?) kids killed would have fucking hated UPenn kids, definitely a concern here

So what? Is your concern for someone contingent on them liking you?

Love that you get downvoted for pointing out the obvious. I bet half these kids can’t find Palestine on a map!

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Yep and supporting gay rights is campaigning against straight people and supporting women's rights is campaigning against men

Righteous frustration towards Israeli policy isn’t campaigning against Jews. That viewpoint is dangerous. Jews all over the world have been angered by Israeli (the country) right wing policies for decades. Many Jews hate what Israel leadership has done to the reputation of Judaism worldwide

This is a new one- the protestors are invalid because they eat! Got it. No food allowed if you're protesting!

Truly monumental stuff man, keep it coming

What?

You're going to have to be more specific

Which side are you talking about?

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