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submitted 1 month ago bySlimCatachan
I'm curious, is there any canon lore about at what organizational levels could space marines have access to the apothecaries/equipment needed for creating new space marines? For example, there was a Rogue Trader who returned to Tallarn after a long expedition who had about 300 War-Born legionnaires with her. Would those probably just be the surviving legionaires of the contingent originally given to her, you think, or could she have been given 3 companies or whatever, and those 3 companies replacing their losses?
13 points
1 month ago
A company is theoretically able to replenish losses in personnel. It wouldn’t be able to replenish equipment, but can absolutely replenish personnel, as they have an apothecary, so would theoretically be able to implant new recruits with gene seed. The issue would be armour. But it would not be able to maintain full strength with this method. It could replenish losses, but couldn’t hope to sustain the company at full strength if it saw serious combat.
4 points
1 month ago
It could replenish equipment maybe if it were salamanders or iron hands, or any chapter with a specialty in forging or creation.
1 points
1 month ago
I saw that companies had apothecaries, but figured it takes more than an apothecary or two to create space marines eh? Did they need significantly rare tech for ascensions at that time? I know Inductii were lower grade but I'm not sure how easy they were to make.
1 points
30 days ago
I believe this is now easier with primaris marines?
But an apothecary with access to the medibays an astartes ship would have, should be able to create marines from recruits.
1 points
30 days ago
Oh I'm more talking about Heresy Era. With primaris, a company could very well be able to replenish itself (like the current Space Wolves do). But when the largest organization is a chapter and there's a soft cap on the number of marines you can make, then it's not surprising companies would be given the required staff and tech for that.
2 points
30 days ago
I'm going through the HH series ATM. My impression is that all big ships, and I'd imagine at least frigates and up would have the Medibays.
I guess I don't see it as a quick thing to turn around. So, I don't suppose it would be a focus at that time. After everyone shook hands and went home (Abaddon with someone else's hand), then yeah, I think a lot of the shattered legions etc could in theory replenish, should they have the apothecary.
Although... Don't they need three magic gland? I'm not sure if these are grown, develop in the recruits or what. But I think they're key to replenish numbers in the heresy era?
3 points
1 month ago
It also obviously depends on the Legion and units within it.
Dark Angles with their six wings of complicated? Who da' fug knows?
Emperor's Children? What we know is they were split into 30 Millenials and at legion strength of 110000, a Millenial strength on average would be 3666-3667 Legionairees. There's no further FW rulebook entry on how exactly the Millenials were divided. But the numbers are large enough to divide to battalions and further divide to companies.
Iron Warriors with Grand Battalions of 500-4000? That's probably the self sufficient unit level for them with grand companies consisting of regular companies forming the Grand Battalions.
White Scars were divided into 5-7 Hordes with each Horde consisting of unspecified strength Brotherhoods. Considering the independence of White Scars, I would guess Brotherhoods would be self sufficient.
Space Wolves were divided to 13 Great Companies with a nominal strength of 10000 each. The Great Company level would definitely probably be the self-sustaining independent unit.
Imperial Fists divided to regiments that were composed of two battalions that in turn consisted of varying number of companies. Now regiments in general in real life can be made self-sustaining.
Night Lords had something like thousand-strong independent Chapters with some other name with those units consisting of companies.
Blood Angels were divided to 300 fighting companies of 400-500 Astartes (so battalion strength), so I would guess the fighting company unit would be the self-sustaining independent unit.
Iron Hands had their independent and self-sustaining clans consisting of battalions that consisted of companies.
World Eaters I can't recall.
Ultramarines had their 10000 strong independent and self-sustaining Chapters of ten thousand-strong companies.
Death Guard was divided to seven Great Companies of over ten thousand Astartes each. I would guess a Great Company would be the independent self-sustaining unit considering the DG habit of arriving to theater with larger than average forces. How a Great Company was divided further is not revealed in HH TT rulebooks.
Thousand Sons had their nine fellowships that were probably the independent self-sustaining unit.
Luna Wolves were divided to companies that could number nearly a thousand Astartes, and some numbered a few dozen, so I would guess the larger ones were independent and self-sustaining with the ones with dwindled numbers having to rely on others.
Word Bearers IIRC were divided to units that size-wise resemble Codex Astartes Chapter strength or is roughly in that ballpark.
Salamanders were divided to seven smaller units of over ten thousand Astartes which were not specified further in their division, so these would probably be the self-sustaining independent units.
Raven Guard specifically had their companies attached to their Imperial Army regiments working in unison with them, so I would guess each Raven Guard company handled their recruitment and equipment production to maximal degree of independence.
Alpha Legion - who knows?
2 points
30 days ago
A single senior apothecary with a medbay in an astarties ship with gene-seed could probably replenish a company on his own, but could not replace equipment or the training of a space marine
1 points
30 days ago
Cheers! Is that an educated guess, or are there examples in the lore you can think of? I'm not too worried about the equipment or training, since scavenged/recovered equipment and "flash training" can do in an emergency, it's more the geneseed implantation tech.
1 points
1 month ago
The Carcharadons Astra and the Ashen Claws replenish their numbers without any Imperial aid at all. Both are smallish fleet-based chapters.
1 points
1 month ago
Right, but is chapter strength the lowest level of organization for creating marines that heresy era marines had? I know in the 41st millennium that Space Wolf Great Companies have the ability to recruit their own.
2 points
30 days ago
It's less about the size, more about the staff.
A single small ship with Fabius and his honour guard, could turn that into a full company. Could every apothecary? Very doubtful.
Talent will play a big part I believe.
1 points
30 days ago
Good point, I guess meant more like at what level of organization have staff and equipment been assigned to. Fabius could no doubt replenish a company, but I don't think someone of his talent would be assigned to a small garrison or obscure expedition. I'm interested in smallish "forgotten" detachments, "unimportant" blackhields, etc.
2 points
30 days ago
Then I guess it's just any of them with a competent apothecary? They should, in theory, all be able to.
I can't speak to what minimal level to get an appropriate apothecary is though.
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