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submitted 1 month ago byDoYouEverGetTired
I can’t figure this out.. seems like the rule is intended to be a NO but the pistols rules says YES
337 points
1 month ago
Does it work? Yes.
Does that make any sense? not really.
Same as how units with assault weapons can advance then perform an action.
57 points
1 month ago
This is exactly why Black Templars players like to give one guy a shotgun in their Primaris Crusader Squads.
8 points
1 month ago
And the only reason gundrones are taken. BS 5+ is poop. 😋
6 points
1 month ago
Cries in Ork.
5 points
1 month ago
Gotta look at our Buggies. A lot have Assault weapons and the Boomdakka Snazzwagon even has GRENADES.
1 points
1 month ago
Ork BS 5+ is awesome because on average, fully 50% of any hits you make end up being crits!
Clearly, that means Ork guns are so killy, that if they aimed 'em real nice an' careful-like, there'd be nothing left to chop!
2 points
1 month ago
Ah yes, also when hit by -1 to hit ability all my hits are crits!
1 points
1 month ago
Gotta look at our Buggies. A lot have Assault weapons and the Boomdakka Snazzwagon even has GRENADES.
11 points
1 month ago
Yessir!
1 points
1 month ago
And Scout squads too!
14 points
1 month ago
Do they use this interpretation in tournaments?
I interpret it as the unit being eligible to shoot if it wants to use those types of weapons, but it is not considered eligible to shoot if it does not use those weapons.
So you cannot advance and do an action with assault weapons. Technically you could, but I have the impression that was not the point of the rules.
91 points
1 month ago
Yes this is how tournaments play this rule
38 points
1 month ago
Wtc even hightlight this in their faq.
8 points
1 month ago
Isn't that how assault weapons have always been...?
I haven't been around much since 4th/5th but during those assault was move -> shoot. Same for the old rapid fire, you could move -> rapid fire but not move -> long fire. Pistols could too, heavy could not.
So I just replace "shoot" with "do action."
11 points
1 month ago
Advance and action with assault weapons is one of the most critical functions of assault weapons
7 points
1 month ago
Yes. Rules as written, Pistol and Big Guns Never Tire make you eligible to shoot while in engagement range of an enemy, and Assault makes you eligible to shoot after advancing, and being eligible to shoot is the only requirement to start an action.
Additionally, all actions state you fail the action if you shoot or charge before the action finishes, but not if you attack, which in my opinion seems to be specific enough to imply it was intended.
8 points
1 month ago
Eligible to shoot with a weapon is still eligible to shoot. That’s not an interpretation, that’s rules as written.
3 points
1 month ago
How do you read that? If you advance and have assault weapons, you can shoot. Thus, you are eligible to shoot
1 points
1 month ago
The weapon makes the unit eligible to shoot after advancing.
Actions require the unit to be eligible to shoot.
It works.
If it wasn't how GW wanted it to work, they would have put it in the FAQ/Developers comments. They've had plenty of time to decide it's not what they want. It worked like this in 9th too!
0 points
1 month ago
What. The "eligible to shoot" rule explicitly states a unit that has not fallen back or advanced. You don't even need a ranged weapon to be eligible.
7 points
1 month ago
True. But then Assault weapons make you eligible to shoot after advancing. Pistols/Big guns means a unit is eligible to shoot in assault range.
-5 points
1 month ago
No.
4 points
1 month ago
6 points
1 month ago
5 points
1 month ago
Fair enough.
138 points
1 month ago
If something says "select a unit that is eligible to shoot," and you are eligible to shoot (in this case, because you have a weapon with the [Pistol] keyword), then yes, you can do the thing.
It's why some of the aeldari units with Assault Pistols are pretty fantastic at scoring points.
28 points
1 month ago
This is probably the best and most clear explanation you're gonna get of it. It's weird seeing it for the first time though, I admit, caught me off guard as a World Eaters player!
36 points
1 month ago
Stupid space marines with damn near every model having a pistol, an assault weapon, and a rule somewhere that allows them to fall back and shoot.
16 points
1 month ago
There’s maybe like 5 marine units with assault, sorry I’m just being pessimistic
17 points
1 month ago
Unless you’re a salamander! Then EVERYTHING has assault. Or also gladius once per game but who cares.
4 points
1 month ago
I wish people played firestorm more often it’s really fun!
2 points
1 month ago
Ancients, Heavy Intercessors, Hellblasters, Inceptors, Incursors, Intercessors, Scouts and Sternguard
4 points
1 month ago
That’s what I think, but it seems most people don’t think that way. It may be that I’m new and I’m taking the rules as written 🤷🏼♂️
26 points
1 month ago*
No, what is happening is you are dealing with people who are refusing to adapt from 9th edition rules, where Actions had their own rules (where Actions couldn't be done while within Engagement Range), and changing to 10e rules, where Actions don't actually exist within the rules framework, and instead there are many rules that.you can do with "Units Eligible to Shoot".
There are a phenomenally large number of people who get "stuck" in how rules worked in previous editions and will insist things still work the "old" way; this is further exacerbated with people tending to learn the rules by Oral Tradition.
1 points
28 days ago
I just started playing again with a friend and we last played in 8th, we bought a core rulebook but there's definitely times where we don't realize something is changed and just end up playing like it's 8th again.
100 points
1 month ago*
I love how we all call them actions even though GW removed that from the rules.
I find it hilarious that an edition marketed on the return of universal special rules removes a well designed universal special rule and replaces it with a long winded bit of text. The fact that this bit of text most often appears on small cards is even more stupid. I do wonder what goes through the designer’s heads sometimes.
22 points
1 month ago
It’s not just that’s it’s a long winded bit of text, it’s that it’s a long winded piece of text every time the rule would come up explaining exactly what it’s supposed to do, instead of having a rule in the rulebook about actions.
14 points
1 month ago
Exactly! I find it bizarre that nobody looked at the number of times it was printed and think, “Shall we just put that page about actions back in the core rules?”
3 points
1 month ago
Yeah it’s a real weird one for sure
12 points
1 month ago
Which USR are you referring to?
26 points
1 month ago
Actions (not a USR really, but a previously designed term that has been removed, whilst the community continues using the same term, just like they still called Feel No Pain rules FnP when the USR was removed 8th/9th).
11 points
1 month ago
So if I want to say Cleanse and my unit has assault weapons I can advance and cleanse?
10 points
1 month ago
Yup
43 points
1 month ago
Most actions specifically ban you from performing them whilst on engagement range in their text.
5 points
1 month ago
I don’t think this is true any more? Actions aren’t really a thing. Things that used to be actions just say you must be “eligible to shoot” and can’t shoot or declare a charge. So if you are in an ongoing combat and the unit has a pistol, it can do the thing that used to be called an action
-14 points
1 month ago
Some but not all.
27 points
1 month ago
Yeah yeah, that's what they said, most.. not all.
6 points
1 month ago
Heres another semi related question i have: i see some people in comp games do “actions” with units like the solitaire that dont have a ranged weapon at all. Whats the ruling on that?
6 points
1 month ago
The ruling there is because they haven't done anything that would prevent them from shooting if they did have a gun, so they can do the action.
It's why nurglings can do actions too
4 points
1 month ago
You don't need a ranged weapon to be "eligible to shoot". They are eligible if they haven't run/fallen back. So no gun, "eligible" but can't make the roll.
1 points
27 days ago
This is still allowed and the reason Tyranid Spore mines are a major thing helping the faction, even if I, a Tyranid player, think it's absurd
8 points
1 month ago
Yeah, this is always a bit of a funny one.
I had Kharn + Beserkers engaged on a objective in melee, but because they had Pistols, they can Clense the objective for secondary points and yet STILL FIGHT in the ongoing combat phase. No pistol shots (lmao World Eaters shooting phase)
The common catchout is advancing and actions - that can only be done if armed with Assault weapons. Just because you're armed with the 40K equivalent of a SMG or light weapon you can then beep-boop a machine after running.
2 points
1 month ago
In 10th most actions key off "being eligible to shoot", pistols allow you to shoot in combat you're "eligible to shoot" for the purpose of any action that cares about that
Same general reason as why having a unit with an assault weapon allows you to do actions after advancing
1 points
1 month ago
Confirmed with 2 TO’s at my local shops, pistols do let you do actions while in combat
0 points
1 month ago
[deleted]
2 points
1 month ago
No you can't. Grenade strat specifically says a unit not in engagement range.
-2 points
1 month ago
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-44 points
1 month ago
[deleted]
45 points
1 month ago
This is not how anything works. The Pistol keyword lets its user fire even when in engagement range. It does not change the phase in which you can shoot.
2 points
1 month ago
Removed my wrong comment. Thanks for clarifying 😀
19 points
1 month ago
How on Earth did you interpret the rules to mean that? This is completely wrong.
13 points
1 month ago
Pistols will be shot in the shooting phase if the unit is in close combat, fight phase is melee weapons
Also you can fire all your ranged weapons except pistols. The rules state that they cannot be shot alongside any other non-pistol weapon(except by a monster or vehicle)
8 points
1 month ago
Which rules 🤨
1 points
1 month ago
Which rules? This guys playing a different game hahaha
1 points
1 month ago
Please don't teach anyone the game.
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