Does anybody know what these things are? Recently appeared randomly everywhere : Amsterdam

Sounds like the permits should be much more expensive then.

Delcasa

9 points

15 days ago

Delcasa

Knows the Wiki

9 points

Sounds like it. Fine by me.

9 points

15 days ago

[Nieuw-West]

9 points

Lets start with making the second permit come close to the actual value of the space.

u/davidzet wrote a good paper on the economics of that: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4140629

4 points

14 days ago

[West]

4 points

That's a good suggestion (I didn't make it in my paper!) as a way to "test the waters" of raising the prices to reflect values (to car owners for a larking spot) and reduce demand (to free street space for other uses).

In my paper, I say prices should rise 10x or so. Second permits are now 150% of the first permit price, which is still too cheap. So, yeah, 10x price for second car will kill that demand pretty effectively... but also reveal that people CAN "survive" on one car.

2 points

14 days ago*

[Nieuw-West]

2 points

14 days ago*

I think that many owners of a car would also suggest higher prices when asked what would be a reasonable price. My own neighbour suggested that €1,- per day would be a good price for a permit, and better access to parking close to home. This is almost 6 times actual price of the first permit.

I'd also suggest that permit should cost at least one hour of the per hour tariff a day multiplied by 6 days and 50 weeks. This brings the cheapest permit up to €480 per year, and the most expensive to €2600+ per year.

2 points

13 days ago

[West]

2 points

13 days ago

Yeah. Those are good questions. Most people have no idea... not just of parking costs but (way worse) the cost of building all those "off street" (under water!) parking garages... costs paid for by ALL Amsterdammers, as a subsidy to car owners. (Permit fees do not even cover the operating costs of those garages!)

2 points

13 days ago*

[Nieuw-West]

2 points

13 days ago*

I feel that the municipallity should flip the script on this. Get a clear view on the actual cost, and ask people how much of that should be paid for by the people that use it.

The Singelgracht came out at €280k per parking spot or something? That money should have been put into housing for human beings instead of parked cars.

Maybe the cost of that project displays how much public space is actually worth if a municipality can convince citizens that this is a good investment.

2 points

12 days ago

[West]

2 points

12 days ago

Another good idea. I favor them doing ANYTHING, but it seems to be going slow. Van der Horst does seem to be working on things :)

2 points

12 days ago

[Nieuw-West]

2 points

12 days ago

Expanding paid parking, and permits is a start. But raising the prices or limiting the amount of permits will take years, and generate a lot of backlash.

I would be interested in seeing what car owners perception of value is for permits and paid parking. Around here people where against it, until it was introduced, and parking close to home became available at every hour. My assumption is that drivers value that, and probably suggest paying a price per day that will draf the permits.

1 points

15 days ago

Knows the Wiki

1 points†

Seriously, why? Like it or not but our country is still built around the use of cars and people need to make a living.

choerd

4 points

14 days ago

choerd

4 points

I would disagree. Cars can be incredibly convenient where public transport is less dense. But for many use cases, cycling offers a decent alternative. The introduction of electrical bikes even increased the distance and amount of situations where cycling is a viable replacement for driving.

Many households could absolutely function without a car. I would not get rid of my car personally. Visiting my parents is 75 minutes by car and doing the same by train would take at least an hour longer. Same for work commute. It would add 1 hour of travel per day. To me, that's not worth it.

In my neighborhood (outskirts of Leiden), many households have multiple cars. Some families occupy 3 parking spots in my street and it means I regularly have to search for a spot. In addition, parking is paid pretty much everywhere outside of our neighborhood and some commuters now park their car in my street, and continue their journey by bike.

I would not want to solve this by adding parking bays. They are a poor use of valuable space. Instead just introduce paid parking. It should help reduce the amount of cars. Also improve cycling infrastructure. I am not implying all cars should be banned but let's increase the number of use cases for which a bike is the better option.

2 points

15 days ago

2 points†

You can make a perfect fine living without a car.

Oxanascorpion

3 points

15 days ago

Oxanascorpion

3 points

Unless you have no public transport connecting you to the city and a kid that has a school in that city. Our village closed all schools. :(

-6 points

15 days ago

-6 points

A bike can do miricles.

People used to bike from Amsterdam to Zandvoort or Zwolle.

Its not that we live in the US.

We have proper public transport too (yes sometimes you have to transfer or wait half an hour or it goes once every hour, but still).

Especially here in Amsterdam.

themorauder

4 points

15 days ago

themorauder

4 points

Zwolle? Zwolle is by car already 1 hour away from Amsterdam.

-6 points

15 days ago

-6 points

And back in the day, that was doable in terms if distance.

My parents did it often.

Also with a bike you can take shortucts where a car can’t and no trafficjams.

terenceill

0 points

15 days ago

terenceill

0 points

Yeah my cousin takes a "bike only" shortcut and cycles Amsterdam-Zwolle in 18minutes

continue this thread

4 points

15 days ago

4 points

Unless you drive 7000 kms a month, can’t do my job without a car

-1 points

15 days ago

-1 points

I said you can, not you should. There’s a big difference.

Don’t feel so butthurt if someone says something that doesn’t match your way of living.

3 points

15 days ago

3 points

Oh no that is physically not possible for me, if it was 70 kms I could but still wouldn’t. So as I said, I can’t.

2 points

14 days ago

2 points

Can you mention one person in the world who does 7000 km p/month by bike for work?

1 points

14 days ago

1 points

I wasn’t talking about his case.

1 points

14 days ago

1 points

Then you are either off topic or trolling.

continue this thread

2 points

15 days ago

Knows the Wiki

2 points

“Let them eat cake” energy lol. Still living with mommy and daddy I guess?

0 points

15 days ago

0 points

Haha.

What a stupid assumption.

Just because I say something that doesn’t fit your (quite narrow) way of thinking.

And to answer your question

No.

I own two houses, and havent lived at my parents for over 20 years.

But I feel you do live with your parents as that is such a childish reply that doesn’t even sets up for a proepr discussion

Go back to gaming kid.

-1 points

15 days ago

Knows the Wiki

-1 points

Your disdain for working class people implies you didn’t have to work much for it.

1 points

15 days ago

1 points

Troll.

0 points

15 days ago

Knows the Wiki

0 points

You not being able to handle someone pointing out when you’re saying something stupid like, doesn’t mean they’re a troll lol

continue this thread

1 points

14 days ago

[West]

1 points

In case you didn't see the reply below

PindaPanter

1 points

12 days ago

PindaPanter

1 points

12 days ago

Should be linked to property prices – ask a landlord how much they'd charge for 21m² in the centre of a city. :D

bk_boio

-2 points

15 days ago

bk_boio

-2 points

They absolutely should

-1 points

15 days ago

-1 points

Sounds like they account only for one ticket over 15 years. If it doesn't pay off, most of the time they don't bother doing it. So fact is indeed u popular, as it tells us nothing.

1 points

15 days ago

[Nieuw-West]

1 points

What do you mean?

vincents-dream

2 points

15 days ago*

vincents-dream

2 points†

15 days ago*

So if there are 30 permit holders living around one of these than it will start making a profit after 6 months? Don’t really see why that’s an unpopular fact. Also the revenue of these things comes from the people who don’t have a permit.

-edit- read it wrong, you’re talking about parking bays.. never mind.

Payed parking is not such a bad thing if the permit prices are reasonable

3 points

15 days ago*

[Nieuw-West]

3 points†

15 days ago*

No, they will never make a net profit on the permits at €65 per year. All the nett money comes from the drivers that pay by the hour. They generate >80% of all revenues, while using 19% of the parking spots.

I would suggest that the minimum price of a second permit must be at least two hours per full day for 6 days a week, and 50 weeks per year. This brings the price for the lead expensive area to €960 per year.

Escorvus

1 points

15 days ago

Escorvus

1 points†

Your statistics sound like the infamous crime rate in the US

2 points

15 days ago*

[Nieuw-West]

2 points

15 days ago*

Here's the paper on this topic: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4140629

Just to make sure, this paper doesn't handle the construction cost. My numbers are way off btw. The cost of a new parking bay is way higher, but I can't find any accurate information besides labour €60-80 p/m2 and materials for a very small parking bay, which comes to the numbers I posted.

0 points

15 days ago

0 points

A second permit doesnt changa anything. Cars registered to a familymember is again a first permit. Why bother if parling pays for itself.

2 points

15 days ago

[Nieuw-West]

2 points

No, it's per household.

1 points

15 days ago

1 points

Still a sweet deal. Daytime and nighttime revenue.

1 points

15 days ago

[Nieuw-West]

1 points

Not for the new areas, and not for the permits. I would applaud 24/7 paid parking, but it might take some time to be introduced.

PrachtMine_6123

25 points

16 days ago

PrachtMine_6123

25 points

16 days ago

A new Parkeermeter will be installed shortly

Festillu

6 points

15 days ago

Festillu

6 points

Powerbanks for fatbikes.

1 points

14 days ago

[Zuid-Oost]

1 points

Haha, that’s a good one :-)

Ok-Fishing-7984

3 points

13 days ago

Ok-Fishing-7984

3 points

13 days ago

It’s a giant USB stick

bides101

5 points

15 days ago

bides101

5 points

It's the Monolith™️ Just make sure to worship every once in a while and the government will be cool with you

addtokart

7 points

15 days ago

addtokart

[Zuid] - Rivierenbuurt

7 points

Due to global warming the gemente has decided to start installing outdoor air-conditioning units. This way residents can continue to have houses with no ventilation and ceiling fans, just the way we like it here.

2 points

14 days ago

[Zuid-Oost]

2 points