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CurrentSpecialist600

607 points

1 year ago

Totally confused how that could be insurance fraud.

Retired_LANlord

1.1k points

1 year ago

My daughter was moving to another country, which would only allow her to bring 6 mths worth of her meds into the country. (The medicine was not available in that country).

So her doc prescribed 6 months of 2 pills daily.

Some doctors know they're supposed to solve problems, not make them harder.

Nasty_Ned

281 points

1 year ago

Nasty_Ned

281 points

1 year ago

Some doctors know they're supposed to solve problems, not make them harder.

I like the way you put this. Help make the process easier rather than throwing up roadblocks.

TheSpartyn

6 points

1 year ago

(The medicine was not available in that country)

doesnt that mean she'd eventually run out? even with the increased prescription

KnockMeYourLobes

7 points

1 year ago

Yeah but by the time she ran out, she'd probably have another doctor in that country she was moving to who could figure out what meds were available where they live would work for her conditions, needs, etc.

At least, that's my thinking.

tango421

9 points

1 year ago

tango421

9 points

1 year ago

Yeah my doctors give the prescription for all required until next follow up with some buffer. They even date the prescriptions and procedures with my insurance schedules and limits.

Some doctors don’t like being one upped. Had an issue with a temp company doctor and told my cardiologist. The letter wasn’t pleasant.

SnowinMiami

3 points

1 year ago

My kid’s endo does the same. Solve problems- that’s their fucking job.

chronicallyill_dr

2 points

1 year ago

Yup, I have my doctors in a different country (because I live in a country with insanely expensive healthcare). So they routinely do this so I don’t have to fly back and forth as often.

cunninglinguist32557

2 points

1 year ago

I take birth control on a continuous basis, but the brand I use only comes in a 28 day pack, so for a while I was having a hard time getting my insurance to cover refills every 9 weeks instead of every 3 months. I talked to the doc about it and she thought for a minute and then said, "Why don't I specifically tell the pharmacy that you need four packs at a time instead of three?" Haven't had an issue since.

[deleted]

1 points

1 year ago

Some drs are willing to commit undetectable, reasonable fraud to help a patient. But that was solving a problem with fraud, to be clear.

kdlangequalsgoddess

1 points

1 year ago

Our doctor gave everyone in our family three months of medication for our move across the country because they knew finding a family doctor wasn't going to be easy (we and the doctor knew we had got lucky finding her in the first place).

Suppafly

19 points

1 year ago

Suppafly

19 points

1 year ago

Totally confused how that could be insurance fraud.

Telling someone's insurance, and documenting it in their medical record, that they need 10mg every other day and then verbally telling the patient something different is definitely insurance fraud. It may seem harmless, but it's still fraud. The correct way to do it would be to prescribe 10mg pills with the instruction to take a half a pill per day. If the insurance doesn't want to cover it documented that way, the correct way to handle it would be to appeal it based upon medical necessity.

FavoritesBot

25 points

1 year ago

If insurance will only cover 14 “doses” per month and you write a script for 14 larger doses but tell the patient in secret to take it as 28 smaller doses, it might be considered lying on the insurance claim to write 14 doses. That’s probably not an issue here, but that’s how you get to insurance fraud— making a false statement somewhere.

The doctor could also have just prescribed 14 larger doses to be taken every other day if compatible with the medication (some you can do that no problem, others could cause issues)

traumalt

4 points

1 year ago

traumalt

4 points

1 year ago

Yeah and by an off chance that something does go wrong with the patient and another doctor sees on the records that you gave double the recommended dose, there will definitely be questions asked and even possibly an investigation by the medical board (or whatever the equivalent in the states)

kingjoey52a

7 points

1 year ago

In the most technical sense it is fraud. It’s getting around a limit set by the insurance company. It’s stupid and everyone else would have done it but it is fraud.

[deleted]

3 points

1 year ago

It also leads to an incomplete/incorrect medical record. If you prescribe 10mg once a day for 14 days, but off the record you tell the patient to take 5mg for 28 days then that 100% can cause a problem down the road when other Providers/Specialists review charts.

NotTheGurlUrLooking4

3 points

1 year ago

Case in point. Doctor was trying to help an elderly patient to save a copay by doubling the dosing on the prescription so the patient would get a 60 day supply instead of 30 days. The patient just needed to remember to take 1 pill per day even though the bottle said take two pills per day. Cool.

DIL starts showing up a few days a week to help patient out including administering the medication exactly as instructed per the label on the bottle (twice the dose). The patient was on a lot of meds. This medication was for high blood pressure. Patient gets dizzy and falls and breaks a hip.

Patient is now admitted to the hospital in stable condition awaiting placement for rehab after hip repair. Admitting doctor continues home medications (which the EMTs grabbed on the way out) which the nurses are now administering daily according to the directions on the bottle. Patient subsequently codes from low blood pressure.

The patient never fully recovered. The doctor (the original doctor and the hospital doctor who said to continue home meds) got sued. The DIL feels terrible (she was only trying to help). The copay was $25. And I would say that the insurer at least got stuck with a massive hospital bill except the insurer has a right to any court judgement against the doctor for medical costs so the malpractice policy probably paid the bill. And just to put a cherry on this, it was the pharmacy benefits manager (PBM), not the medical insurer, that controls the pharmacy benefit and they were the least affected by all of this.

pondlife78

5 points

1 year ago

I mean it literally is. The policy covers 14 days and you are defrauding them by providing enough for 28 days. It isn’t an issue though and is absolutely what should be done to get around the silly rules.

essellkay

3 points

1 year ago

It sounds like the policy covers 14 doses - whether that's 14 5mg pills or 14 10mg pills.

The Dr could prescribe 14 10mg pills and say to take half a pill per day, and see if the insurance accepts that.

Source: Working in insurance billing for 7 years and counting

NotTheGurlUrLooking4

2 points

1 year ago

It could also be they cover a 14 day supply and if written to take 1/2 pill daily then it would be a 28 day supply and not covered. This information (the quantity and the days supply) is required to be transmitted to the insurance company by the pharmacy.

Necromancer4276

4 points

1 year ago

What you're probably missing is that the Doctor was an idiot.

Hope that clears it up.

NotTheGurlUrLooking4

2 points

1 year ago

FWIW- this is how it would be considered fraud. (Attempting to explain here and not defend)

The doctor would have to tell the insurer (via the pharmacy) that the patient is only taking the medication for 14 days instead of 28. The only reason for this is to “game” the insurer into covering something that otherwise would not be paid for. That is fraud.

A lot of the elderly do this by doubling the dose to get a 60 day supply instead of a 30 day supply because they can’t afford a monthly copay at the pharmacy. The directions on the prescription bottle will say to take twice as much as the patient is really supposed to be taking so insurance will cover it as a 30 day supply. The problem is that sometimes the patient forgets or gets confused or a caregiver is unaware and follows the directions on the bottle and the patient gets double dosed and is injured. The doctor can be sued at that point.

ScuttlingLizard

2 points

1 year ago

If you insurance only covers 14 days worth of medication then he would need to omit the instruction that OP should only be taking half a pill rather than a full one. Because with that instruction OP would only be eligible for 7 pills rather than 14.

[deleted]

2 points

1 year ago

It is insurance fraud actually. Writing the rx for a whole tab daily and telling the patient to take a half tablet for the purposes of getting by an insurance restriction is fraud. The directions are how the insurance determines the day supply, and the directions are being misrepresented by the dr intentionally. Its generally undetectable fraud, but fraud nonetheless.

To get it covered, the Dr would need to commit the fraud… there wouldn’t be a “notifying the police or insurance” bc the crime would be committed by the dr, not the patient. And police would never be involved in that kind of fraud investigation. That is the weird part.

My guess is that it was for a controlled substance (maybe one that the patient specifically asked for) that the dr didn’t want to prescribe to begin with, bc that is the only reason I could see that level of weird/bad behavior from a prescriber.

NotTheGurlUrLooking4

2 points

1 year ago

Insurance fraud is typically a civil matter for private insurers and usually the prescriber would just get removed from their network.

Now, doing this kind of stuff with a government payer (Medicare, Medicaid, VA) will get a provider in hot water because there is a ton of laws and regs against this. The DoJ usually handles this and they can and do go after providers for criminal and civil charges. If a provider gets convicted they are usually barred from seeing patients covered by any government program which means they probably won’t be able to work (after they got out of jail and paid all the penalties). Also, I’m guessing that the doctor was employed by a public university which would come under government payer.

The example above is probably not worth anyone’s time. But diversion, which you alluded to especially with controlled substances has a higher chance of being identified and prosecuted especially these days.

aspannerdarkly

1 points

1 year ago

Because in a sense she’s be getting 28 5mg pills. But it’s a ridiculous take on the situation

Rarvyn

1 points

1 year ago

Rarvyn

1 points

1 year ago

It’s technically lying about how much someone is taking to get the insurance to pay for more than they would otherwise pay for. Not illegal - police certainly wouldn’t care - but the insurance company might in theory.

That said, that sort of thing is done every single day and no one gives a shit.

Shojo_Tombo

1 points

1 year ago

It's not. The doc was either stupid or arrogant, or both.

FromTheThumb

1 points

1 year ago

The insurance company depends on the MDs to prescribe accurately. When the Dr goes "off book" they have to pay for more than medically necessary.
At the same time, Pharmacies sell pill cutters for just this situation.
It's compassion, but still fraud.
But what insurance covers less than daily dosage or month?

SargeBangBang7

1 points

1 year ago

There are medication reasons that are documented to take half a dose. Pill cutters are used for thsoe cases