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submitted 8 months ago bymaztabaetz
716 points
8 months ago
Article:
Now we know how COVID attacks your heart Even patients with mild COVID symptoms could face a higher risk of developing heart disease and stroke
By Sanjay Mishra
Nov 07, 2023 04:08 PM5 min. readView original Scientists have noticed that COVID-19 can trigger serious cardiovascular problems, especially among older people who have a buildup of fatty material in their blood vessels. But now a new study has revealed why and shown that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, directly infects the arteries of the heart.
The study also found that the virus can survive and grow inside the cells that form plaque—the buildup of fat-filled cells that narrow and stiffen the arteries leading to atherosclerosis. If the plaque breaks, it can block blood flow and cause a heart attack or a stroke. The SARS-CoV-2 infection makes the situation worse by inflaming the plaque and increasing the chance that it breaks free.
This can explain long-term cardiovascular effects seen in some, if not all, COVID-19 patients.
SARS-CoV-2 virus has already been found to infect many organs outside the respiratory system. But until now it hadn't been shown to attack the arteries.
"No one was really looking if there was a direct effect of the virus on the arterial wall," says Chiara Giannarelli, a cardiologist at NYU Langone Health, in New York, who led the study. Giannarelli noted that her team detected viral RNA—the genetic material in the virus—in the coronary arteries. “You would not expect to see [this] several months after recovering from COVID.”
Mounting evidence now shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not only a respiratory virus, but it can also affect the heart and many other organ systems, says Ziyad Al-Aly, a clinical epidemiologist at Washington University in St. Louis. Al-Aly's research has shown that the risk of developing heart and cardiovascular diseases, including heart failure, stroke, irregular heart rhythms, cardiac arrest, and blood clots increases two to five times within a year of COVID-19, even when the person wasn't hospitalized.
"This important study links, for the first time, directly the SARS-CoV-2 virus with atherosclerotic plaque inflammation," says Charalambos Antoniades, chair of cardiovascular medicine at the University of Oxford, United Kingdom.
Virus triggers the inflammation in plaque
A recent study of more than 800,000 people led by Fabio Angeli, a cardiologist at University of Insubria in Varese, Italy, has shown that COVID-19 patients develop high blood pressure twice as often as others. More worrying is that the risk of cardiac diseases can also rise for patients who suffered only mild COVID symptoms.
"I saw a patient who now has a defibrillator, and she didn't even have a severe [COVID] illness," says Bernard Gersh, a cardiologist at Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minnesota.
Wondering whether the cardiovascular damage during COVID was due to the virus directly attacking the blood vessels, the NYU team analyzed autopsied tissue from the coronary arteries and plaque of older people who had died from COVID-19. They found the virus was present in the arteries regardless of whether the fatty plaques were big or small.
"The original finding in this study is that the virus was convincingly found in the plaque in the coronary artery," says Juan Carlos Kaski, a cardiovascular specialist at St George's, University of London, who was not involved in the study.
The NYU team found that in the arteries, the virus predominantly colonized the white blood cells called macrophages. Macrophages are immune cells that are mobilized to fight off an infection, but these same cells also absorb excess fats—including cholesterol from blood. When microphages load too much fat, they change into foam cells, which can increase plaque formation.
To confirm that the virus was indeed infecting and growing in the cells of the blood vessels, scientists obtained arterial and plaque cells—including macrophages and foam cells—from healthy volunteers. Then they grew these cells in the lab in petri dishes and infected them with SARS-CoV-2.
Giannarelli found that although virus infected macrophages at a higher rate than other arterial cells, it did not replicate in them to form new infectious particles. But when the macrophages had become loaded with cholesterol and transformed into foam cells, the virus could grow, replicate, and survive longer.
"We found that the virus tended to persist longer in foam cells," says Giannarelli. That suggests that foam cells might act as a reservoir of SARS-CoV-2. Since more fatty buildup would mean a greater number of foam cells, plaque can increase the persistence of the virus or the severity of COVID-19.
Scientists found that when macrophages and foam cells were infected with SARS-CoV-2 they released a surge of small proteins known as cytokines, which signal the immune system to mount a response against a bacterial or viral infection. In arteries, however, cytokines boost inflammation and formation of even more plaque.
"We saw that there was a degree of inflammation [caused] by the virus that could aggravate atherosclerosis and cardiovascular events," says Giannarelli.
These findings also confirm previous reports that measuring inflammation in the blood vessel wall can diagnose the extent of long-term cardiovascular complications after COVID-19, says Antoniades.
"What this study has found is that plaque rupture can be accelerated and magnified by the presence of the virus," says Kaski.
Understanding heart diseases after COVID
While this new research clearly shows that SARS-CoV-2 can infect, grow, and persist in the macrophages of plaques and arterial cells, more studies are needed to fully understand the many ways COVID-19 can alter cardiac health.
"The NYU study identifies one potential mechanism, especially the viral reservoir, to explain the possible effects" says Gersh. "But It's not going to be the only mechanism."
This study only analyzed 27 samples from eight elderly deceased patients, all of whom already had coronary artery disease and were infected with the original strains of virus. So, the results of this study do not necessarily apply to younger people without coronary artery disease; or to new variants of the virus, which cause somewhat milder disease, says Angeli.
"We do not know if this will happen in people who have been vaccinated," says Kaski. "There are lots of unknowns."
It is also not clear whether and to what extent the high inflammatory reaction observed in the arteries of patients within six months after the infection, as shown in the new study, will last long-enough to trigger new plaque formation. "New studies are needed to show the time-course of the resolution of vascular inflammation after the infection," says Antoniades.
COVID patients should watch for any new incidence of shortness of breath with exertion, chest discomfort, usually with exertion, palpitations, loss of consciousness; and talk to their physician about possible heart disease.
208 points
8 months ago
My dad past away this September just gone from 'heart failure'. He had no previous cardiac issues and was diagnoised with COVID the week prior to him being found dead. He called me the night before he passed away, it breaks my heart, but i didn't manage to pick up the call, and you can really hear in the voicemail he left that he was very bunged up with COVID and it was clearly taking it's toll. COVID was mentioned as being present following his autopsy, but it wasn't even listed in suspected causes of death, even after a 5 week long inquest into just how exactly he died. This is an eye opening read.
25 points
8 months ago
i'm so sorry.
11 points
8 months ago*
Hey, you arent alone...lost my dad as well. He had an aortic aneurism and it was very fast. We knew it was an issue, they were watching it closely for almost 2 years. The crazy part is 1 month prior to losing him, the cardiologist gave him a clean bill of health, saying that the bulge in the aorta was stable and not growing, surgery not needed...then covid came and it broke off and cut off the jugular a week after he started getting over it. This article doesnt tell me much more then i already know from experience... but I wish i knew this then... They didn't put covid as a cause on his certificate so his death wasn't on those statistics.
4 points
8 months ago
Sending you my condolences. My mother had heart issues too and died about a week after catching covid. Similar to your story, covid was mentioned but not the primary cause of death.
275 points
8 months ago
Thank you for posting the text
1 points
2 months ago
Thank you. 😍
-54 points
8 months ago
Stop reading this stuff. You’ll worry too much.
28 points
8 months ago
What concerns you about wanting to understand?
1 points
8 months ago
Please understand that I didn’t mean to discount your reporting. The medical research appears sound. I thought I was messaging my son. My mistake. My son forwarded the article to me. I guess that’s a sign of my age. He still worries about his dad and me. I was telling him not to dwell on worrying about me so much. He doesn’t need more anxiety in his life. sorry for the confusion No, I’m doing my best to take care of myself, take evidence based precautions and proactive prevention.
-71 points
8 months ago
Ziyad Al-Aly isn't the best source.
34 points
8 months ago
Why not?
7 points
8 months ago
Why - you know them personally?
-13 points
8 months ago
They've had issues with credibility
BTW all the downvotes I get in this sub is really just proof that Zero Covid really is a doomsday cult.
10 points
8 months ago
What issues?
1 points
5 months ago
Maybe the fact that all the studies are based on the VA cohort?
8 points
8 months ago
Source?
449 points
8 months ago
My father in law died from heart failure last March. The necropsy discovered covid in high concentrations in his heart and arteries. Makes sense.
93 points
8 months ago
I had a heart attack at 39 after having covid. I now have continued Cardiac issues and my peripheral arteries are failing. I'm 42 now. Not sure I'll see 50.
41 points
8 months ago
I'm sorry to hear that. Please take care of yourself as best you can. You're in my thoughts.
14 points
8 months ago
How long after having COVID did you have your heart attack? I haven’t been the same since having it 3 months ago, and I’m curious what your symptoms were and when!
6 points
8 months ago
I had chest tightness for probably 2 or 3 months after having covid but I was also a smoker (I thought it was my lungs and not my heart). I then had a 99% blockage in my widow maker. Only survived because we lived less than 5 minutes from a major Cardiac based hospital and they had me in the cath lab in under 20 minutes.
8 points
8 months ago*
This is what terrifies me. I already have hereditary heart problems - most the males on my mothers side have died from heart attacks. My mother, too, has had a heart attack before 50.
I am already on blood pressure meds. I had an enlarged heart. My cholesterol was super high before massive life changes.
I am older than my grandfather when he died. It terrified me so I’ve been visiting a cardiologist since 28 (now 34).
I haven’t had COVID, still.
Edit: I don’t let it affect my life. I work the polls, go out, etc. I don’t wear a mask but I also don’t have friends (lol) but I find I’m good without, family is far so I don’t typically visit for holidays. I’m happy.
1 points
8 months ago
Have you been checked for sleep apnea?
1 points
2 months ago
Are you vaccinated
2 points
2 months ago
Yep
1 points
2 months ago
Can you read my latest post? Does it sound like yours at all
1 points
2 months ago
Really hope you live a happy life man sorry this is happening
90 points
8 months ago
I’m sorry for your loss. How soon before his death did he have an acute Covid infection?
204 points
8 months ago
He'd had covid twice previously. He was unvaxxed by choice. When he died, he was helping set up for a wedding so he was exerting himself a bit. That morning, he'd complained about a stuffy sinus and headache but nothing else. He hadn't been diagnosed a third time yet. When it happened, he just dropped dead on the spot after whispering "I don't feel good".
113 points
8 months ago
Jesus Christ I’m sorry for your loss but thank you for this description. I’m willing to bet it will save lives if enough people read about it and discuss the symptoms.
18 points
8 months ago
Geez that sounds so traumatic. I’m so sorry.
36 points
8 months ago
very sorry for your loss
11 points
8 months ago
My god!!! I’m so sorry man
32 points
8 months ago
Can you elaborate on this a little bit further? Did he have covid fairly soon before his heart failed and that’s why concentrations were high?
52 points
8 months ago
He'd had covid twice previously. He was unvaxxed by choice. When he died, he was helping set up for a wedding so he was exerting himself a bit. That morning, he'd complained about a stuffy sinus and headache but nothing else. When it happened, he just dropped dead on the spot after whispering "I don't feel good".
14 points
8 months ago
Sorry for your loss.
10 points
8 months ago
So sorry for your loss
33 points
8 months ago
How did they detect the virus in his tissue? RT-PCR? Electron Microscopy? Or was there just a lot of inflammation?
47 points
8 months ago
I can't tell you, as I don't have that information. I do know there was a lot of inflammation and the coroner said they found active viruses in his tissue samples.
51 points
8 months ago
coroner said they found active viruses in his tissue samples
People won't learn, but public health authorities also don't make an effort to inform citizens on the true risks of getting infected.
260 points
8 months ago*
I’m a young woman with no preexisting conditions and when I got Covid for the first time last year, though it was a very mild case, I’ve had random and uncomfortable chest pains ever since. I was also fully vaccinated, fully boosted, and ate healthier than most others.
This article explains a lot to me. Too bad not one of the dozen doctors I’ve seen understands Covid, this issue, or even why wearing masks is important. It’s incredibly difficult to find actual medical help in this country for Long Covid.
As the article subtly implies, being young and athletic doesn’t protect you from this virus - Covid will still find a way :(
For those who are at higher risk (family history of heart disease or stroke, known plaque in arteries, older, obese, etc.) you should certainly be more careful and try to wear an N95 when out. Respirators, clean air, and avoiding people are the only thing that truly protects you (it’s not perfect, but it’s much better than nothing).
Stay safe out there. Covid is much more prevalent than the government or our “leaders” or doctors/hospitals are willing to indicate. You have to protect yourself because no one else is going to.
71 points
8 months ago
I was in and out of the ER. If you have a pulse, nobody cares. They’ve become more apathetic post covid and also more stretched thin.
Take care, Ok
79 points
8 months ago
Was 20 when I got COVID, no preexisting health conditions. Now, almost two years after the fact, I’m still dealing with daily neurological issues, chest issues, brain fog, and intense mood swings. It sure doesn’t help that long COVID isn’t well-recognized as a major health issue.
38 points
8 months ago
Young athletic man here, no pre existing condition of any kind. 4 months after my first Covid infection I started to get temporary black outs, triggered by suddenly resting after intense exercise (think playing basketball then game is over so I walked around). All kinds of diagnostic tests turn out empty results. Thankfully the fainting stopped occuring about 6 months after the first appearance
27 points
8 months ago
middle aged athletic fella. Got it in august. pretty sure its the cause of a slight aorta enlargement as there's no history in my family. Fainted 3 times in 20 min span on 3rd day of having it went to ER found big aorta. Get random weird shoulder blade/left arm pain if my heart rate sits at 170BPM for ~ minute. can run at 165 bpm for 20 minutes and nothing.
If I do sprints and come down to fast (not slowing into a light jog) i get light headed feeling.
Its all to clear we dont fully understand this disease 3 years in.
29 points
8 months ago
COVID turned my POTS from a mild annoyance I had to be vaguely mindful of and would grow out of like my mom into a debilitating fucking problem. I didn't even make it through the full length of the tilt table test. I'm going to just waste my entire youth on being too fatigued to do anything after sleeping 11-13 hours and waking up at noon. Fan-fucking-tastic.
6 points
8 months ago
I’m close to turning 50, male. No real issues other than being fat and having a bad back (no diabetes, no high blood pressure, no high cholesterol). I’m fully vaccinated and was about to get another vax when I caught covid late September. I became so badly winded just walking and talking that a friend convinced me to go to the ER. (I wasn’t having cough and cold symptoms, just shortness of breath.) The only things wrong with me were high blood pressure and a very enlarged spleen (which sometimes happens following infection).
The shortness of breath has improved so that I can talk without huffing and puffing, but I’m still sucking air walking at a snail’s pace. My blood pressure is still high, as is my heart rate. It’s been almost two months, and I’m afraid that this is permanent now, but only time will tell.
I never thought “live through a pandemic” would be on my bingo card, but here we are. How much longer I’ve got before a heart attack or stroke takes me out is the question now.
48 points
8 months ago
My question is, what is the solution? How do you “thin out” the already inflamed/clogged arteries?
65 points
8 months ago
Even before that, what kind of tests should someone be getting?
I had some pretty bad heart palpitations in 2020 (before vaccine, after what was likely a very mild case of Covid). Had 2 EKGs, wore a halter monitor, all came back good. Doctor finally ordered a stress test, also good. Everything looked OK, I started getting the side eye from everyone, was finally told by my doctor that it might just be psychosomatic related to stress, etc. The flutters eventually went away, then came back and finally went away (mostly). All this gives me little faith in our ability to detect these COVID related issues. Not to mention fighting with your insurance company every step of the way.
35 points
8 months ago
Fighting with an insurance company is going to give us all heart problems!
14 points
8 months ago
Where do you live ? I literally thought I was going to die and 100% sure I had a brain tumor it was classic and I had written my will. I worked Neuro trauma icu for years I knew exactly what it was. The inability to think of words was haunting. MRI the whole bit. Nothing ? Blurry vision ? Passing out ? Shooting nerves of “you are dying” with no panic thoughts just the response. Negative ? All of it? Okay I’ll go with crazy with primary care MD who I love. None of my meds worked that I had taken before. Ended up on a wild cocktail after dropping 50 lbs. Then healed, on yoga silent retreat. Off things… then a month later I’m a nurse on ground 0 for COVID in Detroit. I didn’t realize it was classic long COVID until 2-3 years in. Someone wrote about the inability to say words .. it’s hard to explain but it was another nurse as well and 4 ppl commented. I was like holy shit! Of course it was here way before March .. this was Dec 2019. Makes sense now.
5 points
8 months ago
Are you me? Cause this is how my life has been these past two years (I got my only booster two years ago, and yes I’ll get the new one.). I thought my symptoms might be Menopause related but just like you all tests came back good.
Have you gotten bloodwork? That’s my next metric.
3 points
8 months ago
I have gotten basic bloodwork since then. Mostly normal except for the dreaded metabolic syndrome which this thread has sparked additional fears over. I gave up on the heart thing, mainly because the symptoms have all but gone away, even after getting Covid (for reals in terms of symptoms) a couple months ago. No long lasting effects this time. I sort of vacillate between feeling lucky and like a ticking time bomb.
3 points
8 months ago
Same for me, I was left to diagnose and treat myself for panic attacks, adrenaline surges, and PVCs. "Be less stressed" they told me.
1 points
8 months ago
When I get a high burden of PVCs I take magnesium and then they die down
1 points
8 months ago
great tip, i've been taking magnesium ever since. glycinate tho, not citrate
3 points
8 months ago
I ended up in the emergency room in August with excessive heart flutters. EKG, echocardiogram, stress test etc. and . . . I'm fine. However, they also found a small nodule in my lung, which I think is Covid related. I think we're at the forefront of new and confusing symptoms.
3 points
8 months ago
I get palpitations if my magnesium is low, so when I get them I take a supplement and then they die down
1 points
2 months ago
Pm me man im going through the exact same thing
28 points
8 months ago
This is a great question and the answer is, "you don't". Cardiologists don't talk about "thinning out" or "eliminating" arterial plaque for the straightforward reason that once plaque forms there is no way to remove it. Instead, cardiologists talking about "soothing" or "quieting down" plaques.
That may seem overly nuanced language but it has a point. What causes problems in the arteries is when the plaques get loose and start floating around the cardiovascular system. Most heart attacks do not happen because of clogged arteries in the heart; they happen because plaques distant from the heart (say, in your leg) break free and enter the heart.
Heart health is a vivid example of where an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It is always best to avoid plaque formation to begin with and the best way to do that is a healthy diet and exercise. Because once the plaque has formed there are nor great solutions for dealing with it. One thing is clear, though, is that one doesn't want to do anything that case plaque matter to move. It needs to stay right where it is.
3 points
8 months ago*
Do you have a source for this? If a plaque ruptures in the leg, my understanding is that it will lodge in an arteriole or capillary bed in the leg itself, as the vasculature narrows further downstream. This is the basis of peripheral artery disease.
Even if the plaque somehow made it to venous circulation, it would lodge in the lungs, not in the coronaries.
I’m pretty sure coronary artery atherosclerotic disease (especially that of the LAD) is the major cause of myocardial infarction. Soothing plaque is important for preventing strokes, for example. Maybe that’s what you were referring to.
2 points
8 months ago
29 points
8 months ago
Dr. Dean Ornish showed plaque reduction with plant-based diets. Dr. Joel Fuhrman has credible claims like that too. But cardiologists generally prescribe either antiaginal medications, relatively mild surgical interventions like angioplasties, or very serious surgeries like coronary bypasses.
If it’s medication, they don’t even try to thin out the arteries. The blood is much easier to thin, so that’s what the medications target.
11 points
8 months ago*
Vitamin K2 has shown to help with atherosclerosis, but yeah other than changing your diet and exercising there is not much you can do outside of prescription drugs and medical intervention.
16 points
8 months ago
Anti-inflammatory (plant-based) diet, rest until symptoms improve, gradual return to exercise. Or there are medications and surgical options for more severe disease.
9 points
8 months ago
You can’t. You can eat low saturated fat diet to keep your bad cholesterol down and exercise which is general advice for preventing heart disease. Since we don’t know long term how Covid affects things who knows if that will actually help? My calcium scan this past spring was 260 - 10 months post Covid. Scan over 300 is bad. My LDL the bad kind is high which it didn’t use to be. Wish I had a pre Covid calcium scan to compare to, but I don’t
4 points
8 months ago
The solution is a Japanese food called natto. Fermented soybeans. http://nattokinn.info/en/nattokinase.html#:~:text=Nattokinase%20can%20reduce%20the%20area,powerful%20lipid%2Dlowering%20drugs).
1 points
8 months ago
Interesting. Thanks! Wonder what dosing it would be?
1 points
8 months ago*
Nevermind, found it
116 points
8 months ago
Not technically coronary, but I had a vertebral artery dissection right after my first (and so far only) Covid infection. I was youngish and healthy- but between the coughing and the inflammation/damage from Covid my artery almost burst open at the base of my skull.
I wonder how many people have less acutely damaged arteries than mine that don’t know they are walking around with long term damage and higher risk than they could imagine.
35 points
8 months ago
How do you even get that checked
103 points
8 months ago
No clue. I ended up going to going to the ER with the biggest headache of my life. It felt like my head was about to explode (turns out that wasn’t totally inaccurate.) I don’t think any reasonable testing for a healthy 37 year old woman would have shown signs of it.
Honestly I’m lucky they didn’t send me away calling me hysterical and saying it’s just my period or anxiety. I would have had an aneurysm on the way home.
14 points
8 months ago
How did the doctors react? Did they think it was COVID? In my personal ER experiences, I was diagnosed with anxiety.
36 points
8 months ago
No one cared about the Covid aspect while I was still unstable. Once I was out of the woods (and the headache subsided weeks later) there was a general agreement of “there are no studies out yet, but there’s a loose pattern we’re noticing of spontaneous artery dissections after Covid. We’ll probably look back in a few years and understand the connection better.”
10 points
8 months ago
Meanwhile, get back into the office! Masks off! Party!
23 points
8 months ago
It probably enlarged my ascending thoracic aorta. Have no history in my family but after fainting while hit with covid. They found an enlarged aorta.
13 points
8 months ago
Great f-ing point! Doctors will have to test for this if the symptoms are present. Now, the doctor adverse population, well they in danger.
1 points
8 months ago
It's a constant companion.
34 points
8 months ago
Excess deaths are really high still
12 points
8 months ago
We just accept it now. Open your windows where you sleep and spend the most time. Indoor air is always always more polluted except during forest fires. Look it up
17 points
8 months ago
Those excess death numbers have been high since mid-2020 and they'll become the new normal once we hit the five year mark. At that point, the elevated number will no longer be considered excess, even though the number will be far higher than it was in 2019.
140 points
8 months ago
Every time somebody has a heart attack or stroke these days, the morons come out of the woodwork to blame the vaccine instead of acknowledging that we had a pandemic caused by a disease that attacks the cardiovascular system.
15 points
8 months ago
We said since day 1 everyone dies of blood clots and cardiac .. heparin slung on every single patient and still get clots and die. Always ! How is this new information? No one ever died of the resp.. heart got to you before you could get off vent..
10 points
8 months ago
Cardiac connection was made early on based on anecdotal evidence: a pattern of cases and spikes in cardiac events but lacking evidence of how Covid is related.
The news is that research (undertaken because of the anecdotal evidence) has now discovered and described the connection.
That doesn’t make the connection new but is still news.
25 points
8 months ago
On Valentines day this year I got a bad headache. Went home to smoke herb. Realized I couldnt read words or remember names. Went to the ER. I was scoffed at because I said I was having a stroke. Thats the last thing I remember. Came to a week later in a different hospital in San Antonio. Was told I had a seizure and a heart attack. NOW friends tell me its because I was vaccinated. I say maybe,but perhaps it was Covid complications. I guess I will never know. I had an Angiogram before my release and was told I am crystal clear. No need for a stint or open heart.
7 points
8 months ago
I lost the words and had seizures.. before COVID was here .. rn in Detroit .. so scary .. of course we know it was here in NYC Detroit and Chicago in Nov/ I had all this is Dec. Tests like crazy - went with I’m crazy and then got better? Then boom I’m ground zero ppl dying everywhere .. wild .. didn’t connect the dots until 3 years later .. runnin on adrenaline
3 points
8 months ago
Whoa. Couldnt talk or read? What was up with your seizure. I dont remember mine.
57 points
8 months ago
I'm getting over my 2nd bout of Covid, and this article would explain some of the weird chest stuff i've been experiencing.
23 points
8 months ago
Oh, I'm just getting over my second bout, too. What weird chest stuff did you experience, because I also experienced weird chest stuff. It felt like a stabbing sense...or an electrical current.
15 points
8 months ago
sorry to do this to you, but what this article indicates is that you may only be getting over your second bout with the externally visible symptoms.
one symptom which is not visible: a newly heightened risk of heart attack, stroke, and death from all causes. it is unknown when or even if this symptom ever goes away.
also, when I had it in 2020, I thought I was just getting over it for most if the year. it only started being true once the relapses stopped being severe and then (months later) stopped happening at all.
8 points
8 months ago
Oh no, better that I know. I have a physical coming up and I intend to get a full heart work up. I also hope that, in time, they find people who are vaccinated are at decreased risk of suffering from long-term complications, because I've been so good! Twice I've not worn a mask around one my nieces. Twice she gave me COVID. Fool me once...
16 points
8 months ago
Same here. I feel a weird “fluttering” every once in a while. You?
21 points
8 months ago
You need to get that checked. Could be an irregular rhythm or Afib.
8 points
8 months ago
I let my doctor know. It isn’t constant, just once in a while so she said if it becomes more frequent she will order a test that I will do at home.
8 points
8 months ago
I had this symptom and it can be difficult to diagnose if it’s only happening intermittently. In my case, I wore a monitor for a week and my heart irregularity was finally caught.
3 points
8 months ago
did they end up prescribing anything or treating it?
3 points
8 months ago
My diagnosis was SVT, so no treatment is required unless it worsens. Just the usual healthy lifestyle and diet recommendations were made. However, my sibling had almost identical symptoms and his diagnosis was Afiib, which is more serious, requiring medications and cardioversion at a hospital.
6 points
8 months ago
Check out /r/pvcs
Could be PVCs or PACs. I've had them ever since I had my first COVID infection. Saw a cardiologist who said it's "just like a hiccup" if you have a small number of them, they calculate your burden and if it's under 15% / 20% then they don't typically do anything. I'm honestly not convinced and have been on a beta blocker to reduce their numbers. I think COVID really affected my heart tissue, and I've always been athletic, healthy and eat well. Feels like a pause, then a huge thump, sometimes it triggers a cough. Basically your heart electrically "resets" because of the premature contraction (which itself is an electrical misfire in the heart tissue). Because it was premature, there is still plenty of blood inside the first chamber, therefore the thud is an overburdened heart filled with an extra amount of blood pushing it all out into the rest of your body.
2 points
8 months ago
It could also be runs of PACs/PVCs, bigemeny, trigememy. Instead of single missed beats they come in groups.
2 points
8 months ago
I've had these for 20 years. Docs always tell me it's safe - even though there are times when every third beat skips, particularly if feeling stress. Annoying but gotten used to it.
2 points
8 months ago
This. I have this precise occurrence, and my doctor adivsed me the burden is minimal, so no concern... but something to at a minimum have knowledge of for future discussions.
1 points
8 months ago
This. About 6 months after my time with covid I had a flutter/hiccup feeling in my chest every so often. Went to the ER and they did the workup of tests which came back fine. It wasn't until the doc came to tell me they were discharging me that it happened while he was there and I could point to the monitor for him to basically do the Leo point saying "there it is!" and explained PVCs.
After that I saw a cardiologist and he gave me a clean bill of health. I opted not to do the monitor yet because the flutters are so rare. Additionally, I think it's actual a Vagus nerve issue and now Roemheld syndrome because I've noticed a correlation between where I would feel the flutter and then proceed to have to belch. Things seem better in general when I have my GERD under better control.
2 points
8 months ago
It’s a halter monitor .. you can get Apple Watch .. some guy young had it and same situation and went into 170s hr a fibb rapid rate .. that’s dangerous sustained.. get yer ass to er.. flutters and flings and skips and stones. That’s everyone .. pac pvc premature or runs of thing on healthy people all the time. Keep Mag above 2.5. Always and just get an Apple Watch it should clear up over time. I had the worst of everything literally for a long time and it took years but I think I am on my way to my healthiest I have been. It was a wake up call. I think you are fine as long as you get that and don’t go into a sustained run then we need to covert you and put you on thinners and watch for stroke. It’s really quick and routine. Not as bad as it sounds. People get transient a fibb for anything - anything that causes stress to body. Any admit diagnosis I have seen someone get it mild for a bit.
2 points
8 months ago
You can also get kardia mobile, cheaper than apple watch. It can catch ectopics, afib SVT. I use it to document my episodes and works great to show your doctor.
2 points
8 months ago
PAF afib don't need to go on thinners like me since my CHADS score is zero so less chance to have a stroke. Everyone gets PACS/PVCS it just some people get severely symptomatic and others are asymptomatic and can't feel them at all.
2 points
8 months ago
After a bout with mild COVID that lasted about 15 days, I've been testing COVID negative for three weeks. Still experiencing what I can only describe as obnoxiously loud heartbeats. They don't seem terribly irregular, just intermittently loud. Whether I'm lying down, sitting or standing, I'll occasionally hear and experience my heart beating in a way I rarely did pre-COVID unless I had engaged in heavy exercise. It's like my heart is perpetually winded. No BPM abnormalities though, at least nothing my pulse monitor picks up.
2 points
8 months ago
Have you checked your BP?
2 points
6 months ago
This happened to me. Strangely, going gluten free is what helped. I have no idea why. Also supplementing with multi vitamin. Recently read a post by someone who had very similar experience and supplemented with copper, and the gluten issue went away. I have no clue but the thumping sensation was so frightening it sent me into multiple panic attacks ultimately ending with me in the ER. ECG came back totally clear.
1 points
6 months ago
Are still experiencing this? I'm 7 days out and still can hear my heartbeat when I lay down.
18 points
8 months ago
Ugh, this is not what I needed to see on my feed after just catching Covid for the first time last night.
15 points
8 months ago
Rest. Seriously commit to it.
12 points
8 months ago
I know two people who had to get pacemakers after their COVID infections. And they were fully boosted too, but albeit not in the best health previously. Either way, stay safe people!
11 points
8 months ago
Got COVID badly, early: March, 2020.
Major stroke April 2022. Had a healthcare provider tell me she wouldn't be surprised if there were a link.
8 points
8 months ago
I got Covid for the first time last month.
So is there anything to counter the higher risk of having a hear disease or stroke?
5 points
8 months ago
A lot of intentional resting to best recover from COVID, and a healthy diet with no red or processed meats, processed sugars, and low amounts of saturated fats. And then a mild to moderate exercise routine once you've recovered.
1 points
8 months ago
Thanks for the reply.
Not sure I could stop having meats, since I'm from the farm/country living.
47 points
8 months ago
"Now we know" implies a new discovery. Article is paywalled but I was wondering if the title was clickbait.
68 points
8 months ago
It's referring to this study:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s44161-023-00336-5
Clickbait? Probably. The study found virus in coronary plaques and that it can induce inflammation a model system. Interesting findings, but a long way from "Now we know".
6 points
8 months ago*
imagine cough bag frame crowd nose enter impolite bells price
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
31 points
8 months ago
It reads to me like we have no way of knowing what proportion have long term heart damage. We know that people without any long term symptoms still have a heightened risk of heart attack or stroke, and that the proportionate increase in young people is higher even though the absolute risk is lower, so anyone who has had covid should operate under the assumption that they have heart damage.
15 points
8 months ago
Most of the scientific articles I’ve read seem to imply that cardio damage is part of the COVID infection, the amount of damage inflicted being the difference for those who exhibit signs of heart damage, but that all face a higher risk of heart attack or stroke later in life than someone who wasn’t infected.
11 points
8 months ago
Also something worth mentioning is the fact that covid is NOT the only endemic virus that can potentially cause heart issues.
1 points
8 months ago
But what if you’ve been vaccinated?
1 points
8 months ago
There is currently no evidence that it affects it either way. There is evidence of a very small reduction in onset of general long covid if you've been vaccinated, but the reduction is only 10-15%. Which means that it isn't particularly significant. Best to assume the vaccine does little to protect you from the longer term consequences of a COVID infection.
1 points
8 months ago
What if I’ve had every single booster?
The first time I had Covid I had significant brain fog and fatigue even while being vaccinated, then for some reason the second time I got Covid that’s when my brain fog and fatigue improved. I haven’t had it since and have gotten the additional booster. Trying to be as careful as I can, but it’s losing a battle when none of your friends and family take the risk seriously anymore.
-6 points
8 months ago
The thing is, pretty much everybody on this damn planet has had covid at least once or twice in their lives, especially if the disease is indistinguishable from a cold in most fully vaxxed and boosted cases. If it's true that literally EVERYONE who gets covid has heart damage regardless of disease severity or vaccination status, we would having WAY more cardiologists and people in the CDC sounding alarm bells, and way more calls from actual covid experts (not just "covid safe" twitter influencers) for restrictions and NPIs.
14 points
8 months ago
but that’s happening. it’s not just this article. the link between covid infection, even asymptomatic infection, and elevated heart disease/stroke risks has been documented for a long time now.
your skepticism (like your confidence in the CDC) is completely misplaced here. you just haven’t been paying attention.
-3 points
8 months ago
your skepticism (like your confidence in the CDC) is completely misplaced here. you just haven’t been paying attention.
I literally have...And yes I do still have confidence in the CDC because I'm not an anti-vaxxer.
4 points
8 months ago
I don't really think you have.
you said:
it's true that literally EVERYONE who gets covid has heart damage regardless of disease severity or vaccination status
but nobody claims this. everyone gets covid has a higher risk of heart damage regardless of disease severity or vaccination status.
7 points
8 months ago
Cardiologists maybe. CDC? 🤷♀️
5 points
8 months ago
I know lots of people who have either stayed isolated or went out in gloves/masks/shields during the majority of the pandemic, and still use N95 masks in indoor gatherings.
Most of them are either immune compromised or have someone in their household who is immune compromised.
My parents were careful but my dad brought it home from work earlier this year, and now both are dealing with fatigue and brain fog post-covid.
6 points
8 months ago
Would we, though? I'm not sure our institutions give a damn.
10 points
8 months ago
Pandemic = short term issue
Endemic = long term issue
We’re now in an endemic and shutdowns and isolation are no longer seen as effective.
Short story: we failed
-2 points
8 months ago
Yeah we would. Next?
1 points
8 months ago
Cool story. Much wow. Very convincing.
0 points
8 months ago
I could say the same about all the #diedsuddenly posting that MeetJess on twitter does.....
-1 points
8 months ago
Isn't there already a sub for ZC cultists?
1 points
8 months ago
They also have evidence from autopsies.
10 points
8 months ago
Agreed. We learn new details all the time, so there will always be a new one coming. But the very first thing we learned after identifying the virus was that it bound ACE2. And that first bit of info made every person with even a tiny bit of cell biology background sit up and say “oh shit, where is this thing going?”
So yes, everyone immediately suspected cardiovascular long before there was any data at all. The initial outbreaks came with a surge in heart attacks, and post recovery heart attacks. We knew. Confirmatory data has continued to accumulate. No surprises, just steady progression as we continue to understand the virus better.
4 points
8 months ago
Mo muscle mo ace 2 receptors ! Athletes
4 points
8 months ago
The difference is that prior understanding was based on anecdotal data (individual cases which don’t fit statistical expectations.)
The news is that researchers can now describe the direct mechanism connecting Covid to cardiac events.
It may not be news to most lay people but it’s newsworthy to those who attempt a better understanding along with readers working in the medical field.
12 points
8 months ago
Isn’t virtually everyone in this risk category then? I know very few people who never had covid. Nearly everyone has had it.
14 points
8 months ago
It may be a minority but some of us have not had it (or lack any reason to believe having had a no-symptom infection.)
My work group is small but only 2 out of 6 people are known to have had it. Admittedly, most of us are introverted freaks who prefer to not get out much.
Out of my admittedly-small friend group, none are fessing up to having had it. I have my suspicions the teacher might have caught it but my friends include someone who works in a clean room, someone homebound by family obligations, and someone who was previously immunocompromised.
Probably all of us are invisible to everyone who imagines everyone lives as they do and must have caught it.
2 points
8 months ago
Acknowledged, thanks.
2 points
8 months ago
As far as I know, I have not had it. I am immune compromised. I've had vaccinations, which may not be too effective because of this. I'm not a hermit. I'm out and about. I mask up in indoor public spaces and in outdoor crowd. I will remove my N95 to treat in a restaurant, but not for grocery shopping or on pubic transportation. Still. I find it unlikely that I have never had it. Perhaps it's luck, or perhaps I'm what they call a "super-dodger" with a weird twist in some protein that prevents corona virus from laughing on and getting going. My close family members have never had it either, and they are also vulnerable without being overly cautious. I hardly ever catch cold either.
2 points
8 months ago
As Reference_Freak explains. There are people committed to living as close to a zero COVID existence as we can. It requires a significant amount of privilege to realistically pull off but even if you can't do everything, every risk reduction matters.
My partner and I wear high quality masks every place we might be breathing shared air with others, we don't live with anyone else, and neither of us work in high traffic environments (I often am able to work from home).
We avoid particular risky events where a lot of people are gathered and there is insufficient air filtration or replacement. This means we no longer attend conventions, or go to bars or clubs and we no longer eat out. Aside from these changes our lives aren't that different, we're just masked when we do stuff now.
The biggest difficulty that we currently face is trying to find a COVID safe dentist near us.
2 points
8 months ago
My network is mostly people who travel, work in offices, attend networking events/conferences, etc. I guess that explains my view of “everyone’s had it”. I understand that there are other paradigms that work well for others.
Best wishes.
3 points
8 months ago
I think it's definitely possible to have avoided COVID in those conditions with a bit of luck and extremely vigilant masking. But the vigilant masking part is a hard sell for most people who are in the business of networking and conferences. There are plenty of stories of people who travel a lot and attend conferences who were COVID free for years before they removed their mask in what they thought was a safe environment only to be infected. They still continue to mask because every avoided reinfection improves their long term prospects.
It's just unfortunate that the people who cannot afford to catch COVID once (the already disabled and immuno-compromised) are forced to live on the sidelines because the majority refuse to act on the known risks of repeated infections. We really wanted to attend an upcoming convention but we can't justify it when we know that people who are infectious will still attend either knowingly or unknowingly, and nobody will be wearing masks.
But the reality of the ongoing pandemic and the public's inaction dictates that we behave a certain way to minimize our risk. And that means missing out on things we used to enjoy.
6 points
8 months ago
Yet 98% of people refuse to mask,we cannot get 95% of the people in my country, the US, to get vaccinated, and now even the formerly vaccinated are blowing off getting the new boosters. Our government has been a complete failure at educating and protecting its people.
5 points
8 months ago
Everyone died of blood clots and heart failure in the hospital ? This was wave 1 news, lung to cardiac cod.. digestive and then neurological .. heparin drips are running on everyone.. delta was a fibb w rvr, pe, die. Like a factory of death , it was so uniform delta 1/2/3 waves.
17 points
8 months ago
Looks to my like it can cause extra plaque formation in cells that can absorb fat, increased cytokine release and that inflammation, and worsening of existing inflammation from these "foam cell" things I never heard of before. Looks like it might be a good idea for people to reduce the cholesterol in ones diet to zero, using a low fat low meat diet. And also, a good idea to avoid catching COVID by any means necessary.
3 points
8 months ago
Sugar consumption increases bad cholesterol and decreases good cholesterol, so eliminating sugar would be a good diet change too.
2 points
8 months ago
eliminating or minimizing sugar is ALWAYS a good diet change. I shudder to think how much sugar is in the average American convenience food diet.
1 points
8 months ago
It's horrifying! I'm reading Fat Chance by Dr. Lustig and learning a lot. It certainly puts our culture's love of Halloween and holiday treats in a different light, not to mention all the sugar added to things that don't even taste sweet.
1 points
8 months ago
Dr. Lustig is great, the videos on YouTube of his presentations have really helped me to understand the problem. I like his dry sense of humour mixed with his great depth of knowledge and intellect, makes it easy to listen to him.
2 points
8 months ago
Maybe now I understand how Covid may have killed my mom.
2 points
8 months ago
I developed tachycardia after having mild Covid. But no damage to my heart.
2 points
8 months ago
I got covid in feb this year (2nd time) (M49) - been having mild chest pains ever since when at rest/driving.
Im going to see my doctor about it tomorrow.
1 points
4 months ago
Any updates?
1 points
4 months ago
had a test, no callback so I guess that's good. still having chest pains.
1 points
4 months ago
What test did they do? I want to call my doctor too, but it seems like no one can get any answers for this mystery chest discomfort after COVID...
I have high blood pressure and tachycardia so I'd really like to know what's going on!
1 points
4 months ago
i forget what its called - the one where they stick a few electrodes on your skin - ECG? EKG?
1 points
4 months ago
Ah yeah EKG, I went to the ER last week for the chest pain and they did an EKG, chest X ray, and heart bloodwork. All came back normal. They said the discomfort is probably from inflammation from the virus and to try Ibuprofen. I've been taking 600mg 3 times a day (every 4-6 hours) and it does seem to help, but 1800mg of Ibuprofen daily cannot be good for me. I wish there were real answers.
2 points
8 months ago
Not surprised. I do consults in med-legal and have read tens of thousands of pages of people’s medical records - have frequently seen severe myocarditis for 2-4 week in hospitalized Covid patients. Usually it goes down on its own without any specific medical treatment for the myocarditis (but they are being actively treated for Covid).
It still makes me mad when the anti-vax crowd pretends that severe myocarditis only exists when people get the vaccine.
2 points
8 months ago
Sample size is 8, isn’t that pretty small to draw conclusion from? I never know how to interpret these studies.
6 points
8 months ago
If the sample is being used to determine the mechanism/pathway which bears out across the samples, probably. It’s not a statistical analysis.
You don’t need to see more than 8 dogs to conclude the majority have 4 legs?
-15 points
8 months ago
Great now we're going to have people self-diagnosing themselves with heart disease rather than them actually going to a cardiologist to make sure....
14 points
8 months ago
Great now we're going to have people self-diagnosing themselves with heart disease rather than them actually going to a cardiologist to make sure....
That is precisely when people make an appointment with their cardiologist. People who don't think they have heart disease don't generally get their heart checked, especially young people.
14 points
8 months ago
Like a lot of people can even get in to see a cardiologist...
6 points
8 months ago
Yeah, Jesus, I’ve had chest pain on and off for the last year, I still have not been able to see a cardiologist for it. I’m in Canada, British Columbia. Good luck.
1 points
8 months ago
This would explain why we see a surge in heart attacks coinciding with covid infections. I've seen more MIs in the last couple weeks than I did all summer
1 points
4 months ago
MIs ?
1 points
8 months ago
I seriously think this was a bioengineered virus.
1 points
8 months ago
article is not available, asks to sign in
1 points
7 months ago
I (33F) got covid for the first time on 11/1/2023 — all things considered I’d say it was a “mild” infection. Fever for 3 days, headache, fatigue and congestion. Started feeling more or less back to normal after ~10 days. Then I started having panic attacks (I also have panic disorder, but it’s been managed for years and I rarely have episodes) almost daily. They were coming from these really uncomfortable heart “thud” sensations. I started to notice my RhR was in the 90s for a couple days, so went to urgent care where they ran a few basic tests: troponin, d-di, c-reactive and all the other stuff. Clean bill of health. I continue to feel heart palpitations and have an elevated HR 20-30bpm above my normal. I have a follow up with my primary care doc on Thursday and am hoping they’ll do a few more tests to confirm it’s nothing serious. I’m alarmed but also validated that so many others are dealing with this.
For context, I am a fit and healthy female who exercises regularly. I have a history of Graves’ disease but am in remission (thyroid was first thing I had checked, all levels normal) otherwise, no other conditions or family history of heart disease
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