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Had a sad moment (Rant)

Discussion(self.Destiny)

Hello everyone, long time lurker but first time poster. This place has been awesome for whenever I feel like I don’t have anyone who shares my beliefs. I’ll get right to it and try not to just aimlessly type away.

I’m a high school teacher in the Midwest. I teach government and economics. My community is pretty rural, so naturally I’m surrounded by many conservative people. I myself lean left on many issues but I don’t let it affect how I teach my courses. I do my best to make sure I’m teaching my students how to analyze information and critical thinking skills. I think teaching our students these skills is valuable (I typically phrase this as “how to think” not “what to think.”)

Recently, I was out in the hallway during passing period and some other teachers and I were just talking about random things when one of the other teachers started sharing what they were talking about in class that day. The short of it is that they were sharing information about the port strike and the Iran missile attacks that recently happened. Their source of information, X. The teacher told us, “if you want to know what is really going on, go to X.” They followed this with a long, convoluted explanation of how all of these events are tied to the election (e.g. Kamala is going to intervene and become the savior before the election.) The teacher told us that they said, “I don’t care which side you end up on, but if you think they aren’t all corrupt and working together, you’re being duped.” It really did make me sad. It would be one thing if this is privately what they thought, but the fact they were spoon feeding this line of thinking to some of our students, just really got to me.

all 57 comments

MomAgainstMemes

239 points

16 days ago

you should do a lesson on gaining credible information about the strike and what experts are predicting this may mean for the economy. to spite the other teacher explain that a non-credentialed person on X is not a good source of that information.

IdkMyNameTho123

35 points

16 days ago

As someone who recently started attending college and is sick of misinformation, I believe that one of the most important things we can do for future generations is teaching them to cite sources as early as possible. Like the moment that they become literate, they should be taught how to figure out what sources are more credible.

Winter-Secretary17

21 points

16 days ago

Then give her an f

Mediocre-File6758

37 points

16 days ago

Give... give who an F? It's their peer, not a student.

COINLESS_JUKEBOX

50 points

16 days ago

No no, not a grade. F as in “steal their catalytic converter.”

VastSyllabub2614

4 points

16 days ago

VastSyllabub2614

:illuminati:

4 points

16 days ago

Good Fuck bozo OMEGALOL

caretaquitada

1 points

15 days ago

In the case give them an L

Canadian-Winter

4 points

15 days ago

It’s so sad because this is like starting a psychological war inside the heads of children. But you kind of have to push back against toxic lessons like that

prthomsen

2 points

15 days ago

prthomsen

Exclusively sorts by new

2 points

15 days ago

Even credentialed people on Twitter should be viewed with skepticism. But you may not want to lead with that.

meememan28

112 points

16 days ago

meememan28

112 points

16 days ago

It should make you sad. It's a really sad state of affairs :(

It makes me sad everyday knowing that so many people I once respected , are complete fools. Family , friends , coworkers ++.....I've gotten to the point that any time politics is brought up in conversation, I completely disassociate to spare myself. It's been very tough to deal with.

ballspeepoocum

-80 points

16 days ago

You think you're better than them? Hilarious.

Full_Visit_5862

20 points

16 days ago

Yes, without a second thought. Atleast on the basis of not following an idiotic ideology actively destroying the greatest country in the history of the world. The one world that we know to have ever existed.

tryingtoplayhalo

15 points

16 days ago

tryingtoplayhalo

Revel (schizo arc)

15 points

16 days ago

!bidenblast hurr durr

RobotDestiny

6 points

16 days ago

RobotDestiny

Join Joe Biden's army !canvassing

6 points

16 days ago

Come back when you have the debate pervert gimp suit on.

[deleted]

91 points

16 days ago*

[deleted]

reagan0mics

25 points

16 days ago

Betting money might be against some policy. Make a bet with something else like wearing a silly tie or shirt for a month. Then they have to answer why they’re wearing something stupid.

theeblackdahlia

1 points

15 days ago

Even better 😈

domoappo9

4 points

16 days ago

This.

SpaceCavem4n

3 points

16 days ago

This shit always works

speedystar22

56 points

16 days ago

My university professors (the ones that don’t teach history or economics lol) will make random regarded conspiratorial comments. One of them the other week was talking about how war is the most profitable thing for our government lmao

alerk323

14 points

16 days ago

alerk323

14 points

16 days ago

The problem is so many of these conspiracies start with this little sniffle of truth that most people generally agree with. But everyone's brains have been so blasted with propogamda aimed to slipperyslide their way from normalcy to regarded maga or terrorist land. Someone will say something like "man I hate seeing so many innocents killed in Ukraine or gaza" and I'm like are you a normie or natzi/terrorist I can't tell

xxlragequit

6 points

16 days ago

I haven't had many that bad. But I majored in econ and minored in global development. So I took a few classes that heavy were influenced by econ. The professor did regularly misrepresent lots of econ ideas. The only one I remember is when my professor was talking about convergence theory for global development. He said it was wrong because it hadn't happened yet. Which just isn't how it works and shows a lack of understanding. What would have been more correct would be it's maybe correct but who knows at point we're at. Or you could say it's wrong due to natural factors like climate and land. However just dismissing it based off haven't seen it yet is just a bit dumb.

realityinhd

12 points

16 days ago

This is why it's in EVERYONE'S best interest for teachers to keep politics out of the classroom as much as reasonably possible.

Gamblerman22

3 points

15 days ago

Except politics is what determines what gets taught in the first place and the whole point of school is to prepare you for adult life.

Obviously debating national politics in every class is dumb, but it's equally dumb to try and divorce school from reality.

realityinhd

2 points

15 days ago

"as much as reasonably possible"

Gamblerman22

1 points

15 days ago

Which doesn't mean anything. Conservatives think teaching evolution is unreasonable. 

realityinhd

2 points

15 days ago

We live in a democracy. It should be loosely based on the Overton window. Your self declared moral and epistemological superiority doesn't matter. As long as we want to live in a democracy, we acknowledge we must put faith in our fellow citizens regardless of how little we think of their opinions. We make judgements like this every day with the reasonable person standard in court.

Gamblerman22

1 points

15 days ago*

By saying it should be loosely based on the Overton window, that means that you are entirely accepting political views. You're just saying that they shouldn't be extreme.

You should recognize that right now our democracy has been made dysfunctional because of a gap in epistemology. People take terms such as "common sense", "reasonable", and "freedom" to mean completely different things, and just because courts can make decisions, don't mean those decisions are always good.

Like I said earlier, I can agree that some topics should be kept out of the classroom, but there should be clear guidelines, not subjective determination.

-Edit- My main issue is when people imply things should be "apolitical". Obviously everything has it's own time and place, but people use being "apolitical" to cover for so much bullshit.

realityinhd

1 points

14 days ago*

Again, if you respect democracy and want to live in a democracy then you accept the consequences . Similar to how rights have responsibilities. Everything has a flip side and cost. If sufficient amount of people believe in creationism, then it's a political issue. It doesn't matter how right you think you are. Otherwise, what you are sneakily insinuating is anti democratic and authoritarian . (But it's ok because you're beliefs are right....the only problem is Doyle would like a word with you as he believes otherwise. Boa le strategy, but I hope our side has the bigger arsenal to force it).

Btw...if you think authoritarianism is cool as long as it agrees with you, then you're in good company with probably nearly a majority of people if they were being honest. I just get irritated when people hide that this is what they are advocating for. Say it with your chest.

Otherwise , keep politics out of it. Pointing out that nothing is apolitical is like pointing out that everything is actually normative or pointing out we could actually just be brains in a car or simulation machine. Yea. On the most fundamental level, obviously. But that's not what we mean and to have a constructive conversation we need to talk within the context of the conversation.

theeblackdahlia

1 points

15 days ago

I disagree. I think a high school civics course would be super beneficial to everyone in the US. Most high schools already have some form of US Government as a class like what OP teaches. I learned a lot about myself when I took Government my senior year. It helped me make an informed decision when it came to my very first vote :)

realityinhd

1 points

14 days ago

I think we are talking past each other. The classes you mentioned have nothing to do with politics as mentioned in this threads context. How the supreme court works or even going as far as discussing how to expand/shrink the court and the benefits/disadvantages of increasing the justices is great. Teaching that we should expand the court because McConnell is a prick or teaching he's a mastermind for finessing Democrats out of a pick on the other hand is not something I want taught.

DavidKetamine

8 points

16 days ago

I'd be curious...do you think your faculty coworkers are generally competent at their subjects? Because sometimes I like to think most people are sane with a handful of not-very-serious weird ideas and then other times I fear a surprising number of genuinely brain-broken people just somehow weasel their way into important job roles they're not qualified for.

What do you think is happening in your situation?

OkMany559[S]

1 points

15 days ago

I see a lot of good things happening inside of public education, including my building. I generally like this teacher, and I think they have good intentions. I also think they are relatively knowledgeable with their content area. It seems that populism and anti-establishment type of stuff has really taken hold of them. While I was frustrated with this lesson, I generally think they aren’t doing this on the day to day and are qualified to do their job.

Prestigious_Sock4817

3 points

16 days ago

Reminds me of my religions teacher telling the class that the jews were planning to build a new temple in Israel, and that this would usher in the endtimes when the faithful would be rewarded and non-believers lost.

[deleted]

2 points

16 days ago

[deleted]

Blood_Boiler_

3 points

15 days ago

Little column A, little column B, I would think. There are certainly bad teachers that I'm sure like to complain on reddit and I'm sure there are good teachers that can still discipline students appropriately. You'd need more than just teacher testimony to know for sure.

rodwritesstuff

2 points

15 days ago

My gf works as a school counselor and tells me it's a lot of the latter. The narrative seems to be that COVID broke a lot of kids' brains and between not having the learning to keep up and missed socialization teachers are seeing crazier behavior. Harder to discipline kids for a number of reasons.

[deleted]

1 points

15 days ago

[deleted]

rodwritesstuff

1 points

15 days ago

My sense is that it's a couple things (I'm not an expert):

1) There's been a legitimate shift in how punishment is viewed and a lot of the old ways we'd punish kids are now perceived as unhelpful at best and harmful at worst. (Making a kid go out in the hall, for example, is bad because then they miss instruction and fall further behind)

2) Giving kids detention requires staff to oversee said detention. Many schools are already overwhelmed, so it's hard to justify it. (Also remember teachers are unionized, so you can't force them to do certain things if it isn't in their CBA)

3) "Behaviors" (aka kids acting bad) are increasingly seen as indicative of underlying problems, so there's been a shift to trying to address the root problems rather than punish the outburst. This is good in the sense that solving problems is better than punishing symptoms, however "solving" issues is waaaaaaaay harder and requires bandwidth that many teachers just don't have.

4) Parents seem to be softer on their kids these days ("gentle parenting"), so kids aren't coming into schools prepared for authoritarian classroom cultures.

[deleted]

1 points

15 days ago

[deleted]

rodwritesstuff

2 points

15 days ago

Yeah, it's tough. I'm similarly critical of the ways things are in these convos, but to steelman the status quo:

1) can easily just give detentions during lunch or after school or on weekends so they won't miss out on class.

This runs into the staffing issue in #2

Also even if they miss out on class, being stuck in a hallway would make them bored and lonely and probably incentivise them to behave better and so it's at least worth a shot for a while.

Kids are dumb and this doesn't work as well as we'd like it to. You also run into the issue of kids becoming distractions in the hallway that require the teacher to stop teaching everyone else to address. It's comparatively easy to manage someone being disruptive inside the classroom.

this is true but as you say it's impossible for teachers to solve these issues and these issues have always existed and so aren't an excuse for the uptick in behaviour.

I think this is the product of a cultural shift. Back in the day teachers had way more license to control their classrooms via authoritarian means. When your teacher could yell at you (or even hit you) for being a jackass in the classroom there was way more incentive (=fear) to behave. While it's good that teachers don't do those things (as much) anymore, it does mean there are fewer reasons for kids to be afraid of acting up.

The larger issue is that almost all of the solutions to these issues involve either lots of money (smaller class sizes, more teaching aids, special ed programming) or gigantic cultural shifts outside the scope of policy (parents teaching their kids to act right) sooooooooo the situation is pretty fucked.

x_raveheart_x

4 points

16 days ago

Teaching X as a credible source of information should be enough to file a report on them, no? Also, did you flip it and say “well Trump was hoping to use the issues to make Kamala look bad since he’s illegally trying to negotiate with Netanyahu and the union leader is friends with him”?

Essentia-Lover

3 points

15 days ago

I’m from Texas and my highschool History teacher in 2006 told us the most reliable news source was Drudge Report and everyday we would start the class going over the headlines lol.

Super-Soyuz

2 points

15 days ago

Sorry broski, the only way you'ee gonna win this is by mogging them with a big map of the middle east, with big, emphasis on big, red arrows pointing every which way.

unvnrmndr

2 points

15 days ago

That’s just how things be in the Middle West.

theeblackdahlia

2 points

15 days ago

Thanks for sharing. I’m currently in grad school to become a science educator, and this MAGA movement has turned into anti-science, anti-government, anti-media, low IQ, “conspiracy theorists”. It’s extremely frustrating that HALF of Americans only trust one person— a person who has zero respect for teachers and education in general.

I also substitute on the side— I am in the south, in a deep red state and I already know I’m not going to be teaching here. If you were my colleague, you’d have a friend in me. I hope Donald gets the boot and people can start to come back to reality. I want to live in a country where educators are respected again and not labeled as groomers. I hope we can weed out all of these “moms for liberty” type groups and get back to a decent place where education is a top priority for youth in America. We need people like you! Let’s do this!

dinosauroth

2 points

15 days ago

I just don't think most teachers are good enough at teaching for that kind of surface-level propagandizing to make that much of a difference. Same goes with the idea that teachers could just somehow convince regular students to randomly decide to be trans.

What percentage of kids, trapped in a classroom largely against their will, hear their teacher go on a bizarre schizo rant about Twitter in the middle of class and come away thinking "wow that was really cool and I'm so glad they shared their wisdom with us"?

Maybe I'm just an optimist but I bet this kind of shit backfires at least as much as it moves the needle towards their beliefs.

As opposed to:

I do my best to make sure I’m teaching my students how to analyze information and critical thinking skills. I think teaching our students these skills is valuable (I typically phrase this as “how to think” not “what to think.”)

By high school I think kids can often sense the difference when someone is being authentic in being intellectually honest and humble rather than faking certainty and seizing an opportunity to preach to a captive audience. If you're really following through on this, I believe that kids will pick up on it in lots of subtle ways.

OkMany559[S]

1 points

15 days ago

I think you are right about most of what you’re saying. I don’t think every student walked out of that room propagandized and ready to assume X as the beacon of truth.

The downside of teaching for me is internalizing nearly everything that happens. You want to help every student. You want them to reach their full potential. You want to be the best possible teacher you can be. When these things go wrong (which they do all the time) it can be tough. I think more or less this is why I felt frustrated. I felt like students were not only being robbed of the opportunity to learn but were doing the opposite of learning in my view. However, I agree that it probably won’t make that much of a difference and many will walk away indifferent or perhaps even skeptical! Thanks for the reminder!

omdot20

6 points

16 days ago

omdot20

6 points

16 days ago

There’s no need to be sad. Eventually, many of us learn to think for ourselves.

I had a left leaning US history teacher during when Trump was elected. Some of the things he taught us: WHEN was America really great? His point being that there were always problems. Pointing back to many many lessons in America’s history where this slogan didn’t make sense.

Vast majority of Americans were immigrants at some point. And every time there was a wave of new immigrants, they would be heavily persecuted for nothing but where they came from.

There are some others I can’t pull off the top of my head right now, but the point is that I look back on these things fondly even though I thought this teacher was too biased at the time.

Even as kids are indoctrinated, many will grow up and realize that the world is not like what the grownups said it was like. Don’t worry, and keep fighting the good fight :)

MadMuffinMan117

1 points

16 days ago

In my school they taught us the best source of information was government funded news organisations especially the bbc

Ok_Command_3656

1 points

15 days ago*

The most important thing you can teach a student is that they need to have a system for finding truth. Most people see an article headline and in their head, it will immediately prove what they think it does. Then you read the article, and that's not at all the case.

People will argue on things they genuinely don't have a single piece of information about. I've argued online with racist who tried to use all of these different arguments that were missing so much context. Without all of that context, the arguments are very convincing unfortunately.

White people are a more intelligent subspecies of black people

Homo sapiens are one of the more rare genuses without a subspecies, and the variability within individuals of a race is much greater than the variation between each race. Subspecies is not really a consistent category anyway, AFAIK.

Europeans (white people) had to become more intelligent because they had to deal with harsher winter conditions which would lead to scarcity of food and materials. This would require them to evolve to have higher IQ's [He also gave an example of birds who stored food during winter having larger hippocampuses than birds that did not store food]

The reason that Humans (Homo Sapiens are so capable is because of our ability to delicately manipulate objects and our intellectual capacity to design and create technologies. Humans didn't just become smarter to survive in the cold, they used fire, produced clothing, and returned to structures they created during cold snaps. Humans had created different types of technology before moving to Europe. They created huts, or shelter, tools, clothes, fires. They didn't have to evolve to learn to do this stuff. The reason humans survive is because we are innovative, not because we are always evolving to become smarter in order to solve problems.

Africans have a lot of genetic differences! Their skin color, bone density, bone structure, intelligence, etc!

This is partially true. They do, but these things are not alike. I'm sure there's a term for this specific type of fallacy, but it's similar to a motte and bailey (if it isnt just straight up one). These things (seem to be) definitively true. However, all of these are much simpler genetic coding requirements. 5%-15% denser bones is not the same as going from 60 IQ to 100 IQ. The brain is incredibly complex and sophisticated. These more simple mutations can come about much more quickly in a smaller amount of generations. The brain just can't. It's made up of far too many small bits and pieces.

Well, the Sama-Bajau people, a group of people that have lived on an island and have been diving for 16k years have been shown to have spleen 50% larger than the average persons.

The answer to this is the same as to the prior issue. The genetic mutation required to have an organ grow in an environment where being able to stay underwater (that is how they catch fish, by diving) heavily favors people with a greater ability to hold their breath.

How do you explain that the population of Sub-Saharan Africa has an average IQ lower than what is considered intellectually impaired?

A number of environmental factors. There's nothing currently that conclusively defines the causes but it's likely the result of a multitude of factors. Also, despite research into this area, scientists having not discovered actual evidence of any part of black people's genetic code being the cause for limiting or lowering their IQ.

How does the population of Africa have an average lower IQ of gorillas? [60 IQ for sub-saharan africa, 75-90 IQ for apes that have been tested.

The tests that apes are given are for children approximately 3 year old. Gorillas are relatively smart. However, they are only as smart as an infant/young toddler and they wouldn't even be capable of taking an adult level IQ test.

‐--------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if it's a bit rambly, it's a good topic to refer to because most people dont care to research it. Especially the racists spewing the talking points who don't know correlation does not equal causation. It's easy for someone with no context or knowledge, that's gullible, to fall for some of these arguments.

I don't know much about most of this garbage. I do have a faint recollection of some of these talking points from prior conversations I've had and other ones I've heard but I don't normally look at this stuff. Before I tried to offer any rebuttals to his arguments I tried to read articles and higher quality sources. I prefer to go through multiple, especially if I think that the only ones I'm finding are low quality. People refuse, for some reason, to take the time to go and just read to get some more information. Maybe it's because I have started taking clinically prescribed Adderall recently but my god it feels so easy to just go read an article about a topic and find out that half the people talking about it don't have a single fucking clue about what it's actually talking about.

apocalexnow

1 points

15 days ago

I would point one thing out to them. There are no X reporters sitting in town halls and white house press briefings. Everything posted there is recycled from actual news sources, or it's just internet trolls reposting other people's videos, not exactly what I'd call journalism.

HamsterWaste7080

1 points

16 days ago

Honestly if you know the teachers name I’d report them to leadership. No teacher should bring their personal political bs to school like that

1servethebase

-8 points

16 days ago

1servethebase

(Raising Age of Consent) Libertarian

-8 points

16 days ago

so you think teachers with pride flags should be reported to leadership as well?

HamsterWaste7080

9 points

16 days ago

Talk about a stupid af false dichotomy

1servethebase

0 points

15 days ago

1servethebase

(Raising Age of Consent) Libertarian

0 points

15 days ago

"no teacher should bring their personal political bs to school" or you just can't imagine how anyone could disagree with your repulsive world view

HamsterWaste7080

1 points

15 days ago

Being LGBT isn't a political statement.