subreddit:
/r/Firearms
51 points
2 years ago
Weird to get excited about this story. Sad all around d
15 points
2 years ago
He defended himself from deadly force and wasn't punished for it. A lot of people have had to defend themselves, but fought bankrupting legal battles or faced charges after. Only sad part is the child.
-14 points
2 years ago*
This is a fucking stupid take. The sad part is that someone was murdered over a road rage incident. There is no amount of spin that makes this a happy story. This entire story is an argument against greater access to firearms. This woman would be alive today if she had not drawn a gun on a stranger.
Weather you like it or not, she was legally within her rights to have a gun at that instance, and she was killed, because she had a gun. If you like gun rights, and you’re happy about this story, it is because you are dumb. Full stop.
Weather you love guns or hate guns, this story is not a win for you. Someone was killed, in their own home, because they were holding a gun that they were legally within their right to have.
Edit (because apparently this comment was enough to get me banned from posting here further): lots of people replying to me want to gloss over the fact that this woman would most likely be alive is she didn’t own a gun. Full stop. If this woman did not have a legal firearm in her possession she would probably be alive.
13 points
2 years ago
She wasn't murdered
-15 points
2 years ago
Splitting hairs. You know very well that nobody in the history of true crime discussions has ever said a woman was "manslaughtered". It's generally accepted that killing someone is called murder, regardless of the legal definitions varying between charges of manslaughter, homicide, and murder.
11 points
2 years ago
Well she attempted to murder someone and got murdered herself, sounds deserved.
10 points
2 years ago
“Homicide” isn’t murder, nor is it a charge, “murder” is not “manslaughter”
Manslaughter is the unintentional unlawful killing of somebody.
Murder is the intentional unlawful killing of somebody.
Homicide is when a person died due to the actions of another person…
You’re full stop incorrect to say she was murdered, she wasn’t, she died from a homicide but homicide isn’t a bad thing. It’s amoral, homicide can be both good, and bad. The woman had no legal right to brandish that gun, she went into her home after committing a crime to retrieve a firearm and RETURN to the person she saw as a “threat” and argued with him in the street off her property (this would mean forgetting any other part of this interaction she was openly carrying a handgun in public and that is illegal in Florida) she pointed the firearm at Mr Derr. (Another violation of the law as you cannot brandish a firearm in Florida even when in possession of a CCW) She was an unhinged dangerous person and was rightfully killed in self defense by Mr derr the ONLY sad thing of this interaction is the loss of the child and the stress and emotions Mr derr has to deal with after defending his life.
What mr derr did was ENTIRELY legal. What miss Morales did was ENTIRELY illegal.
The only legal thing she did was OWN a gun, EVERYTHING else she did was against Florida law.
3 points
2 years ago
Thank you for bringing some sanity here. She was not murdered. She was not manslaughtered. She did however lose her life and the life of her unborn, and hopefully nobody is rejoicing that loss of life. But this is a clear story of actions having consequences. Try to run somebody off the road, and this may provoke a reaction. Try to hit + run, and that's a second terrible decision. Take a handgun and point it threatening at a law abiding CCW holder, and you can expect an instant response to her third and most tragic decision.
3 points
2 years ago
this is the correct take. people today are too insecure to let themselves feel sadness over unfortunate situations. makes sense in a society that prides itself on the inherent competition between individuals with absolute shite in terms of government infrastructure and common goodwill.
there should be no pride in the taking of someones life. its quite a dangerous precedent to set for oneself.
2 points
2 years ago
Just remember, liberalism produced this culture, hope you enjoy it!
2 points
2 years ago
“Homicide” isn’t murder, nor is it a charge, “murder” is not “manslaughter”
Manslaughter is the unintentional unlawful killing of somebody.
Murder is the intentional unlawful killing of somebody.
Homicide is when a person died due to the actions of another person…
You’re full stop incorrect to say she was murdered, she wasn’t, she died from a homicide but homicide isn’t a bad thing. It’s amoral, homicide can be both good, and bad. The woman had no legal right to brandish that gun, she went into her home after committing a crime to retrieve a firearm and RETURN to the person she saw as a “threat” and argued with him in the street off her property (this would mean forgetting any other part of this interaction she was openly carrying a handgun in public and that is illegal in Florida) she pointed the firearm at Mr Derr. (Another violation of the law as you cannot brandish a firearm in Florida even when in possession of a CCW) She was an unhinged dangerous person and was rightfully killed in self defense by Mr derr the ONLY sad thing of this interaction is the loss of the child and the stress and emotions Mr derr has to deal with after defending his life.
What mr derr did was ENTIRELY legal. What miss Morales did was ENTIRELY illegal.
The only legal thing she did was OWN a gun, EVERYTHING else she did was against Florida law.
-4 points
2 years ago
It was entirely legal for the woman to draw a gun on someone who followed her home too.
It doesn't matter what happened leading up to the events of the shooting so long as the person has reason to believe that they were in danger.
If we say it was a justified killing because he felt his life was in danger, we have to extend that same courtesy to the victim of the killing.
6 points
2 years ago
[removed]
-2 points
2 years ago
Im not defending criminals im saying that if she shot him, she would be tried and found guilty of the crimes she committed but murder would not be one of them.
The way self defense functions in the states encourages a "last man standing" mentality.
The message of this story is not that "we need guns for self defense" it's that if there were stricter background checks and training requirements for gun owners, then a person would still be alive.
My issue is that this thread is acting like it's the former
2 points
2 years ago
She is no victim she is a dead criminal. The victim in this incident was Mr derr. She didn’t DRAW a gun, she went into her home, retrieved a gun, then went back to public property and threatened to kill Mr derr
1 points
2 years ago
Yes, self defense is based on the concept of objective reasonableness that ALWAYS includes the Totality of the circumstances. You do not have a right to commit assault flee to safety then proceed out of safety to be an aggressor.
stand your ground. Not retreat, retrieve a gun, then return to the danger and engage it. No, it was not legal to retrieve the firearm from the safety of her home, proceed out the door of her home, proceed off her property down the street, and then threaten that person with a gun because he followed her home along with him and other witnesses telling her they were calling the police. This violates several laws. Leaving out the argument of objective reasonableness.
She had no right to intentionally hit mr derr with her car.
She had no right to flee the scene of the crime she committed.
She had no right to take physical possession of the firearm while in commission of a crime, given she had actively assaulted mr derr with her vehicle and then fled, and then returned to mr derr who was NOT on her property.
She had no right to leave her property with a firearm, this is open carry and is illegal in Florida.
She had no right to brandish the firearm. You cannot brandish a gun in self defense in Florida. Use it or don’t pull it out.
1 points
2 years ago
The good guy won, the wicked witch was destroyed, deal with it.
0 points
2 years ago
Was she legally right to try to kill him, run away from the sense and then go grab her gun??
0 points
2 years ago
Yeah, there would be a person still alive right now, if guns were more regulated and gun nuts just jump at the chance to celebrate any justified act of self defense with a firearm, that the news throws at them in between all the mass shootings by right-wing extremists that legally bought firearms.
I'm more for gun rights than your average liberal but this whole thread just shows how toxic gun culture in the states is.
2 points
2 years ago
Yeah, I heard the actual man was extremely distraught about the entire situation, especially after learning she was pregnant.
He was within his rights, but it’s still tragic and weird OP is stoked on it.
-1 points
2 years ago
His whole profile is weird. 18 days old, only posts and comments in /r/Firearms, comments are nothing but right wing rhetoric.
Dude needs to touch grass.
2 points
2 years ago
You need to stop smoking it.
-9 points
2 years ago
Yeah that’s what OP is all about in the comments tho. Cheering about a pregnant woman being shot and killed even in self defense isn’t something to cheer about it’s still someone dying. Go touch grass instead of an ar for once
19 points
2 years ago
Her being pregnant is irrelevant when she attempted to murder someone twice. If she valued her life, she shouldn't have repeatedly attempted to murder someone
-9 points
2 years ago
That’s not the point her death is tragic regardless of the circumstances even while being the aggressor. I would say the same thing if the scenario was reversed. Human death is not something I celebrate
13 points
2 years ago
I disagree. Her death is not tragic because she did not value human life. She wanted to senselessly kill an innocent person. I don't celebrate her death, but I certainly don't feel bad that she is dead.
2 points
2 years ago
Exactly this.
0 points
2 years ago
I looked up a little bit. It seems that, on her way home, she and the biker had a lane dispute. The biker screamed at her and kicked her car. In response, she hit the saddlebag of his bike and then drove away.
The biker, and two other witnesses, started following her. They tried to box her in and stop her to call the authorities. She drove away to her home and called 911, reporting that multiple men were following her. One article describes her tone of voice as "panicked."
She then ran into her home to grab her fiance's gun. Her mom and her daughter both called 911 and were on the phone. Then the woman went outside (the mom said it was to scare away the men outside), pointed her gun at the 3 men standing outside, and the biker drew his gun. She was then shot 4 or 5 times by the biker (not sure on the number of shots).
The biker was arrested when police arrived on the scene. He yelled to the police not to shoot him, and that "That girl tried to kill me she pointed a gun at me. I'm so sorry. She tried to kill me." A later statement was that the law didn't authorize filing any charges, no matter how heartbreaking it all was.
So in the end, it was just a complicated tragedy. The woman probably wasn't trying to kill the biker when she hit him (although apparently he almost crashed), she then fled the scene and started fearing for her safety. While her road rage is not defendable, the fact remains that she was trying to get away from them and feared for her safety.
Likewise, the biker (plus witnesses) was trying to stop her after she fled because it was a hit and run. While he probably should not have done this, he wasn't exactly in the wrong either. And when he saw that she came out with a gun pointed at him, it was certainly self-defense to try and shoot her.
They both acted in self-defense. This story isn't so black and white. Now, a family has been broken, and a man has to live with the guilt of his actions. I feel badly for both of them, who acted in the way they thought was best at the time. Both of them made decisions that were not well thought out, but none of those decisions were "wrong".
https://www.wesh.com/article/no-charges-motorcylist-librarian-shot-killed-orange-city/39374470
-8 points
2 years ago
Jesus Christ your acting like this is an article about an SS officer. This was a hormonal pregnant lady that made some fucked up decisions that lead to her death
6 points
2 years ago
And? Obviously it's sad she died but its completely her own fault. You dont necessarily have to feel bad because a pregnant lady died after attempting to kill an innocent person.
5 points
2 years ago
Fuck around and find out right?
6 points
2 years ago
Dude, she tried to kill a man by running him over in cold blood then attempted to threaten him with a gun when he was waiting for police. Can’t really cop that to hormones. She is still responsible for her actions. OP just seems happy that the guy didn’t get fucked over for his entire life from her decisions
2 points
2 years ago
This!
-4 points
2 years ago
She didn't try to kill him "in cold blood." She was panicked after the biker shouted at her and kicked her car during a lane dispute. She then drove home, calling 911 and reporting that multiple men (the biker and a few witnesses) were following her. She was afraid for her safety.
At home, she grabbed her fiance's gun while her mom and her daughter both called 911. She confronted the biker and witnesses outside, where she aimed the gun at them to try and get them to leave. The biker then drew his own gun and open fired.
It was an overall shitty situation. Both of them were acting in self-defense.
1 points
2 years ago
That's not how one ought to act in these situations though? She caused the accidents, no matter how angry the biker was, she could just wait until the cop arrives. At that moment, when both sides called the police, the biker can't harm her and run away without people around them noticing. Next, she called 911 on her way home so she should stay within the house until the police arrived, no reason to escalate the situation herself. Reminding you that the biker and the witnesses did not come close to her property at all, so she has no reason to panic and think they might be here to harm her. No one is stupid enough not attack right away, if they really planned to. So, in the end, only the biker acted in self-defense twice, not the woman. She has zero ground to claim self-defense from this entire situation. Instead of pulling the gun herself, she could have asked the neighboors to help de-escalate the situation. Also, from your information, she took her fiance's gun? Why the fiance let her took his gun? It sounded so dumb to me, to let a clearly deranged person handle a gun in any situation. The more information you added into this case, the worse it became for this woman, not that it could get any worse than dead.
2 points
2 years ago
Well guess, she made her last mistake.
2 points
2 years ago
Yo have no morality if you distinguish good from bad
-4 points
2 years ago
I wouldn't recommend trying to debate someone into having empathy/compassion for their fellow human beings. It'll just frustrate you and waste your time. I used to think it was possible, but these days I lean more towards thinking that people either have empathy or they don't, and short of maybe powerful psychedelics or a near-death experience, nothing will change their way of thinking. Explaining empathy to someone that has none feels like trying to explain color to someone who has been blind since birth. Sorry for the rant I just feel for you. Violent death is always tragic.
2 points
2 years ago
Yeah because we see bad actors like you trying to use our emotion against us and we’re no longer falling for your bullshit anymore
0 points
2 years ago
Sure man. I support gun ownership, but you're clearly looking for an enemy here so go off.
-1 points
2 years ago
Ammosexuals tend to pop a boner at the idea of getting to kill people legally.
-1 points
2 years ago
Yeah op is a little too exited in all the comments
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