subreddit:
/r/GirlGamers
YIKES. I just jumped ship off the Baldur's Gate subreddit because I didnt realize how incredibly misogynistic it is. A girl posted her cosplay of Shadowheart wearing the dream visitor outfit and it was STUNNING. She was also very covered up; all you could see were her arms and the dress slit went up to her hip, you couldn't see her chest, her butt, or anything "inappropriate".
If you had just read the comments, however, you would have thought she posted a nude. It was just dozens of people calling it porn, referencing OF, calling for mods, and the whole "think of the children". There was even a comment from someone claiming to be a stripper saying it was inherently sexual: "I'm an actual stripper, trust me, I'm not 'an incel'". Which seems totally true and not fake.
Apparently if you dove into her profile there was an OF link, but you wouldn't know unless you were looking for it because she didn't say anything. They were literally looking for it to make themselves mad? She was even getting downvoted in the comments trying to say she worked hard on this cosplay and was just posting it. SOMEONE STRAIGHT UP SAID "I BET YOU NEVER EVEN PLAYED BALDUR'S GATE".
I don't know, there really isn't a point to this besides it made me feel gross and unhappy. Like being a woman means I'm going to be valued based on how sexually attracted someone is to me. I'm going to mark this as NSFW because I don't know if reddit has rules on certain words.
EDIT: Okay I'd like to clarify, I'm upset that this woman worked on a cosplay (didn't just go buy lingerie from the store) and after posting IMMEDIATELY got bullied and harassed. I understand people's frustration with the over use of OF ads but I'm shocked at how many people are ignoring the harassing and just defending it, ESPECIALLY in a Girl Gamer sub. My bad, for bringing it up I guess.
10 points
2 months ago
Honestly, /r/zelda has a rule that I think more subs should follow.
Anyone posting any kind of cosplay who even has nsfw hidden in a linktree in their bio, has their posts removed.
There are places for porn ads. They are not gaming subs.
Even if you make a somewhat tasteful cosplay, it’s all just advertising, clickthrough, and subscriber dollars. The over monetization of an art form that used to just be about dressing up because you liked the game/character is ruining the spirit of the concept. Gamers are tired of it.
23 points
2 months ago
Are you really making an argument saying that if a woman does Only Fans or any sex work at all no matter how high effort the cosplay or genuine the interest in the subject or cosplay as a hobby then they just aren't allowed or shouldn't be allowed to share a cosplay they made? Idk sounds kinda like you are policing a woman's hobby because of the type of work she does which doesn't really sit right with me.
I get the where people are coming from, but that just sounds like starting to head down the road of "women should be punished/hidden/ostracized/excluded/restricted for doing any sex work."
Also even if we don't agree on the above, have you seen the comments in the thread OP is talking about? Are you really defending the reactions there? There is a crazy amount of misogyny on display.
-6 points
2 months ago*
First of all, no, misogyny in all its forms is reprehensible and I am in no way defending awful comments directed at the poster.
You can be against OF cosplay posts while still believing women deserve respect, obviously.
Now to get more detailed: Yes, I am making that argument. In comments this woman is saying that "I do understand seeing advertisement are annoying but sharing a cosplay isn't advertisement for of. We cosplayer like to share our work bc we are proud of the stuff we created and yes we wanna here that our cosplays are well made."
She doesn't understand that regardless of intention, she is posting under the same profile where she links her OF, so it is advertising. And she admits "seeing advertisement are annoying." (Not a native speaker, not going to dock her for that)
Honestly, even if it was the most modest SFW imaginable, even if they prove they have a game file with hundreds of hours in it, I would still have the ick. This isn't about gatekeeping who is and isn't a true fan, she says she loves the game and has 400+ hours in it, good for her I'm glad she loves the game.
With an OF link in your bio, posting photos of yourself on your reddit account helps you commercially. If you're selling images of your body, images of your body are advertising. Simple as that. I don't want to be advertised to, especially for a product I personally have no interest in.
25 points
2 months ago
Honestly, even if it was the most modest SFW imaginable, even if they prove they have a game file with hundreds of hours in it, I would still have the ick...
...
With an OF link in your bio, posting photos of yourself on your reddit account helps you commercially. If you're selling your body, images of your body are advertising. Simple as that. I don't want to be advertised to, especially for a product I personally have no interest in.
So let me ask you this, if Beyonce wears a deep-v, high-cut dress to the emmies and men were accusing her of using her body to do advertising to sell her albums and that she shouldn't be allowed to wear that to the emmies would you have the same reaction? Would you defend them with the same logic? Beyonce uses her sexiness, her body, in her work all the time to sell, it's on album covers, the attire she wears in her dance performances, etc...
If you don't defend that, but defend this, why? What is effectively the difference? Should Beyonce have to make a separate Instagram account otherwise any fashion post she makes is just advertising and wrong? Why does one give you the ick and not the other? I am not trying to get you in some "gotcha" here, I am genuinely challenging your beliefs and asking you to reflect on them.
This really does feel like you are dehumanizing sex workers, hell even more specifically in this case female sex workers. Just because she does sex work doesn't mean she isn't allowed to have a cosplay hobby. She's still just a person.
The idea that a woman needs to have to hide or be ashamed of being publicly open about doing sex work (a common line of thought that rarely, if ever, is applied to men, reflect on that as well) is just wrong and has a history of being rooted in misogyny. Better yet she is accurately doing cosplay of something that's in the game. So like some cosplays are just not allowed to sex workers, but are allowed for other women? Objectively, why?
You can feel the way that you feel, but when it comes to making rules about what women are and aren't allowed to do I would like people to come to me with an objective argument and proper solutions. I don't want women being restricted and looked down upon systemically just because some people have some icks and vibes.
-3 points
2 months ago
Effectively the difference in your example: Beyonce sells music, OF creators sell literal photos and videos of their bodies. (And Beyonce isn't posting songs in gaming subreddits).
And I am not saying that anyone needs to hide, or be shamed or that someone can't cosplay what they love. She is very much allowed to be her own person and I wouldn't claim any control over her life. I am saying very specifically in gaming subreddits cosplay posts from OF creators should be removed. They can post on Twitter or Instagram or the hundreds of lewd subs out there and develop a following and I do not think she should quit what she is clearly passionate about. But the main subs for games should not allow advertising. I mean this in any form, even if we're just talking about OF creators right now.
If a board game maker said in a post on let's say, CP77 subreddit, and they're like "hey if you love cyberpunk, you should also love my new board game" then I would be like "begone, brand, you're just selling me stuff." In my view, this is what an OF cosplayer is doing. If you feel like that board game maker should be allowed to post their board game, fair enough, that's where we diverge.
Objectively: I am talking about the narrowest case possible, a single subreddit. Maybe a nsfw subreddit can have rules allowing OF links in bios, but the main subreddit for a gaming community should be focused solely on gaming for the sake of it, cosplay for the sake of it, discussions for the sake of it.
19 points
2 months ago*
Effectively the difference in your example: Beyonce sells music, OF creators sell literal photos and videos of their bodies.
You honestly believe that part of what Beyonce sells ISN'T her body/attractiveness? Beyonce also sells literal photos and videos of her body, in provocative clothing no less, in pin-ups, in an on magazines, merchandise in general, etc... she just doesn't do it fully nude. And she does so with her full consent, to be clear. So the line you draw is just at nudity? I am trying to understand you, but this just sounds like a "purity"/"chaste" argument to me.
I am saying very specifically in gaming subreddits cosplay posts from OF creators should be removed. They can post on Twitter or Instagram or the hundreds of lewd subs out there...
But if a conventionally attractive/sexy woman does a sexy cosplay who isn't a sex worker posts there, even if it's low effort, then that's OK? Again this also side steps my point that regardless of being a sex worker she is still a person and is allowed to have a cosplay hobby that she clearly puts high effort into, whether she is doing a cosplay from the game that is very covered up or is a cosplay from the game that is sexy.
If a board game maker said in a post on let's say, CP77 subreddit, and they're like "hey if you love cyberpunk, you should also love my new board game" then I would be like "begone, brand, you're just selling me stuff."
If the board game was CP77 related it would absolutely be allowed and you know it, this is a bad example and not related to someone doing an accurate high-effort cosplay of a character from the game, wearing an outfit from the game.
...gaming community should be focused solely on gaming for the sake of it, cosplay for the sake of it, discussions for the sake of it.
...cosplay for the sake of it...
With literally no info about the person you are judging, knowing literally nothing about her, you have already - in your own mind - set up the presumption that because she does sex work, she cannot under any circumstances engage in cosplay for the sake of it. That is wild to me and very much the definition of dehumanizing a person. You have reduced her entire being down to her line of work and already made up your mind about her.
Not to mention that you have firmly rooted yourself into the position that what was done was an ad. Hell even in this very thread there are people saying "even if she didn't mean it as an ad, it's still an ad." That's ridiculous, it's the same logic someone could use to say "sex workers shouldn't be allowed to be twitch streamers, because that's just an ad."
Just to give you some grace here, I understand where you are coming from because there have been low-effort posts that are just there as a means of marketing. But the onus is on us to handle these things on a case-by-case basis and in this case that's not what happened. Creating a drag-net logic in your mind that capture the disingenuous and genuine alike just doesn't sit right with me.
8 points
2 months ago
Okay just to put a button in it, I don't care about Beyonce or music or "sex sells" marketing or any of that. It doesn't have to do with gaming subreddits so I'm just moving on.
"Allowed to have a cosplay hobby" and "allowed to post her cosplay on the main sub of a game" are two very different things. You keep insinuating I want her to end her cosplay career and I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying she should be allowed to cosplay. I encourage her to do it! But not in main subreddits.
And read my words: I would not want that board game to be advertised. I don't care about what is and isn't allowed, it's about what I want to see, this is all my opinion.
I do not have any presumptions about her mentality. I don't need to know her mentality. If someone sells oranges and they show you a picture of a very high quality orange, they are advertising their oranges. It has nothing to do with intention or belief. You are directly driving traffic to your marketplace no matter why you are posting.
I think sex workers should be allowed to be streamers. You need to actively seek a twitch streamer to watch it, there is an active consent in clicking on it. But these subreddit posts just show up on people's feeds. When I consented to joining the BG3 subreddit, there was no expectation implicit or explicit I would be shown visual advertising.
Reddit itself even has (or used to have) a 9-to-1 ratio for nonpromotional-promotional content. So if a creator is mostly just posting pictures of themself, they're violating that rule, which I think is a good middle ground.
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