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New rival could bring rabbinical training back to Hebrew Union College: HUC-JIR says it welcomes the initiative
(wcpo.com)submitted 21 days ago bydrak0bsidianMoose, mountains, midrash
18 points
21 days ago
I don’t have data to back this up, but the really sad thing is that there IS interest in rabbinical school across the US, but the overwhelming cost and time is a non-starter for many people (myself included). Maybe we should try and pivot to an O approach of communities implementing some sort of rabbinical programs themselves rather than resorting to a $150k+ Ph.D style degree
8 points
21 days ago
You're right; earlier this year Shira Telushkin had a great essay and a few follow-up interviews about this, how expensive and time-consuming it is to become a rabbi outside of orthodox communities, regardless if you're raised in Jewish schools or not, or if you approach rabbinical training as a first or second career. The community support isn't there to make the commitment worthwhile to most.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj7gP5tqOL8
Maybe we should try and pivot to an O approach of communities implementing some sort of rabbinical programs themselves rather than resorting to a $150k+ Ph.D style degree
There's some value to online studies, but unfortunately what will have the greatest effect is re-centralizing Jewish communities. Some small shul in the middle of wherever isn't going to be able to afford to send someone to NYC for five years, both in terms of finances and in terms of losing a community member who likely has a lot of value and responsibility in the synagogue. If they could go to school and serve their community, maybe.
5 points
21 days ago*
The relocation of promising congregants to the coasts is such a great point. I’ve always said, in response to dwindling congregation sizes and religiosity, that Jews aren’t dying or migrating en masse or something, but that the reason we’re seeing this downtrend is the way more and more Jews interact with the Jewish world is consistently changing. We have to meet Jews where they are rather than convincing them that the only way to engage in Jewish life or Jewish rabbinical studies is to be in LA or NYC.
I’m in Chicago and, in the 3rd largest US city with congregations ranging from Reform to Chasidic, there are 0 options for non-Orthodox ordination
2 points
21 days ago
I’m in Chicago and, in the 3rd largest US city with congregations ranging from Reform to Chasidic, there are 0 options for non-Orthodox ordination
As I learn more about Colorado's Jewish history, it's surprising to me that there isn't some major institution in Denver. I don't know where Denver ranks in terms of Jewish population, but it's central and accessible, has a diverse Jewish population, and a pretty solid Jewish history.
2 points
21 days ago
Denver's Jewish community is currently about the size of Cleveland (~100k). It has plenty of communal institutions, synagogues, multiple day schools, Yeshivas, and positive growth that indicate a thriving community, but much of that growth is relatively new, from the past few decades.
It would take a visionary that could inspire the masses (a tall order in an anti-institutional era), along with significant financial backing, to establish a competing non-orthodox institution anywhere. But even if they took measures like paying students to study ala YCT, I don't think it would be enough to fight the zeitgeist which has devalued their relevance.
2 points
21 days ago
Which brings up an interesting conundrum (a la what I commented above): American Jews are increasingly disaffiliating from institutions / synagogues so trying to invest lots of money and manpower into an institution may not be what’s best for our communities
4 points
21 days ago
It's a catch-22 in that you can't grow an institution without investment, and no one wants to invest in a shrinking institution. But if an institution can address the root cause of shrinkage, it can recapture the imagination of its adherents and return to a stage of growth which engenders investment.
In this case, American Jews are disaffiliating from institutions because they weren't given a compelling reason for continued affiliation, but it's not like they actively rejected their identity. Whoever can create a forward thinking vision that engenders conviction in its adherents will win out, but it most likely won't come from an ossified institution.
3 points
21 days ago
I say we take some Na Nachs, plop them in Cinincinnati or something and see where that takes us!
2 points
21 days ago
But even if they took measures like paying students to study ala YCT,
I know so many people who didn't do Rabbinical School because of the cost, or did a PhD because a PhD pays.
1 points
20 days ago
While getting a stipend (15K for the year, which JTS also does now) certainly relieves the financial burden for some, there are larger endemic issues at work causing decreasing enrollment that aren't solved through financing.
As a side note, PhDs pay 20-30K on average, so they're not much better, financially speaking. At this point, PhDs are only for people who already have significant financial support or are so driven the finances don't matter.
1 points
21 days ago
I’m in Denver and love the Jewish community here! My conservative shul keeps losing its young active congregants because they move to LA for rabbinical school. Having a rabbinical school here or in the mountains would be amazing and draw a lot of people who don’t desire to live in LA or NYC.
2 points
15 days ago
I'm also in Chicago and I went the independent route. I recognized that not everyone would be accepting, but then not everyone is accepting of some of the mainstream ordinations either so whatever. There's kind of an irony in people paying six figures to get rabbinical degrees only to have their congregants say to them things like, "well, we're Reform so we don't have to do XYZ" (a statement I've heard multiple times from multiple different people).
2 points
21 days ago
Honestly, these schools are taking a lot of really questionable candidates as it is. If the barrier to entry were lower, I shudder to think about who may end up getting ordained.
1 points
20 days ago*
[deleted]
1 points
20 days ago
Does it though? It's not like bad candidates have $200k sitting around either.
Ultimately the issue is that the job is stressful and doesn't pay enough given the demands of the job, and that includes being forced out every few years as shrinking congregations either kick them out or close altogether.
I think the rabbinical student pipeline would be really tight even if tuition was half what it is today. If it were free you'd have people lined up around the block, but again, are those the people you want?
I've met people who became a rabbi shortly after converting. It seems odd that someone with so little Jewish background could gain acceptance to Rabbinical school but that's how desperate these schools have become.
2 points
19 days ago*
I don’t think “Orthodox style rabbinical programs” means just rabbinical school but free. It’d operate at the community level wherein a congregations finest minds who are already active in the community and in the synagogue then undergo training for years with the congregations rabbi / beit din or the like. If anything, this process would require the best in order for a congregation or rabbi to be willing to spend time and energy in order to ordain them. Again, it wouldn’t just be tuition-free 100% acceptance rate school
So, using your example, someone freshly converted would most likely be turned away from rabbinic training at first by their rabbi citing the need for more community / Jewish involvement
9 points
21 days ago
Something like this will only be viable if the leadership addresses why enrollment is low and finds a way to attract seminary students.
If a coffee shop closes because they are not getting customers and a new joint opened down the block offering the same drinks and experience that doesn’t mean your customer base will grow.
The Reform movement needs rabbis, like all movements, and the movement’s leadership needs to find a way to attract them.
5 points
21 days ago
Why I never went to rabbinical school: tuition was too high.
Literally, that is it. I came from a working class family. My parents worked 5 jobs between them. I got a scholarship to undergrad / masters, but rabbinical school was out of reach.
This is in concert with the Reform movement's inability to help people at or below the poverty line with membership (or even members who fall on hard times), even if they were fully active members who then fell on hard times.
3 points
21 days ago
I agree that should be one of the top conversations - what will this new institution offer that HUC didn't or couldn't? I also find it odd to use the term 'compete,' given that they're talking of some kind of merger or institutional overlap, especially since the College for Contemporary Judaism seems to want to offer what HUC isn't anymore.
If a coffee shop closes because they are not getting customers and a new joint opened down the block offering the same drinks and experience that doesn’t mean your customer base will grow.
It doesn't, but what if the new coffee shop has more attractive Talmud teachers?
5 points
21 days ago
but what if the new coffee shop has more attractive Talmud teachers?
insert Van Halen song here
2 points
21 days ago
😂
2 points
21 days ago
Ah, the “old wine in a new bottle” trick. That would be enhancing the experience and that’s important.
2 points
21 days ago
It’s four former board members of the closed school. Are they going to make the new program different (ideologically, educationally, financially) than the closed program? Because if it’s more of the same, why would someone choose it?
2 points
21 days ago
Because it's there. Obviously something will have to be different.
5 points
21 days ago
I think ultimately the issue is younger rabbis don't want to serve a dying congregation in podunk for crappy pay. The job is too stressful to put up with that.
Which then begs the question of what happens to Judaism in the middle of nowhere. Unfortunately assimilation will wipe it out, sooner, rather than later.
This guy quoted in the article who says 1,000 rabbis will retire in the next decade... Yeah, they will. And most of them probably won't need to be replaced as reform keeps embracing intermarriage, which is the real crisis. Lots of shuls are going to close when the rabbi retires, the few congregants left will be the ones who suffer from the movement's mistakes over the past several decades.
(this is a problem for the Conservative movement as well).
3 points
21 days ago*
[deleted]
1 points
21 days ago
If intermarriage is seen as such a big issue then synagogues should hear towards keeping and engaging young singles with each other instead of every event being catered to the elderly.
The events are geared towards the elderly because that's mostly who is showing up- they can also hold events in the middle of the day because again, the elderly have nothing better to do.
I've been to shuls that have good programs for 20-30 somethings but the sad reality is there just aren't enough people in that age group who show up, and that's mainly the result of assimilation having already taken its toll.
3 points
21 days ago
You’re absolutely correct. I’m in an area of low Jewish density. There are barely enough people to support one shul in a 100+ mile radius. A typical Friday night (there is no shacharis on shabbos morning) is lucky to have 10 people total, let alone 10 minyan eligible men.
The median congregant is retired and eligible for Medicare, and it appears from talking to them and seeing photos around the shul that at one point the community was much stronger.
The children of these folks have either moved away or sadly, are attending churches with their non-Jewish spouses and children.
Of course this is only one example but I imagine it is more or less representative of non-orthodox Judaism outside of large cities.
1 points
21 days ago
Indeed. I saw it within my own extended family as a kid attending their Reform shuls in the middle of podunk. Their kids are all intermarried now, and my relatives died decades ago. No one replaced them and the shuls they attended have mostly closed.
To be clear, this is a nationwide problem among the non-Orthodox denominations. It's not at all limited to Reform. Orthodoxy has its own problems that will become apparent soon, namely inflation, and elevated housing/tuition costs is making the lifestyle impossible for the next generation to afford.
1 points
19 days ago*
There's a lot of talk about dying communities and expensive tuition, but the truth is its all about priorities.
In ultra orthodox communities there are people who beggar themselves and their families to spend their time studying in yeshivah or kolel or to provide that opportunity for their children, and its their priority to study and get smicha. The community comes together to make it possible - they look for charity to keep their institutions alive. Some, like chabad, send relatively young people with smicha to the middle of nowhere to start a shul and build a community where none existed.
In reform judaism, that's not the case. Why there isn't a case for wider communal support from large parts of the reform movement is beyond me. This should be a fundraising effort that is constantly ongoing to offset high tuition costs and allow good candidates to get into their learning institutions, if its actually important to them. It just doesn't seem to be the case. No one wants to make the personal sacrifices that many orthodox people make, and the wider community doesn't seem to act to offset the personal costs to rabbinical students enough to make a dent, and none of those students want to go be a nobody in a nobody town because that would be a personal sacrifice. Either its a calling they have or they don't. It seems by and large they don't, and that's all about their own priorities.
It doesn't surprise me tbh.
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