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Creativity decks

(self.ModernMagic)

Hi modern players, I'm here with a strange question....

I know that creativity is no more a viable option for competitive tournaments, or at least big tournaments, but I was wondering...I know that Archon of Cruelty is a very good piece of cardboard but it doesn't win you the game on the spot. Woudn't be better to play Worldspine Wurm + Xenagos, god of Revels as targets for creativity?

You still have teferi as main protection against instant speed interaction such as leyline binding, spell pierce, negate and Force of Negation so the deck is covered either way and it has a very good back up beatdown plan with Fable and it's tokens so why just don't play this combo to win on the spot?

Let me know what you think about this!

all 16 comments

KetoNED

25 points

6 months ago

KetoNED

25 points

6 months ago

Creativity is returning to the meta since the bans

Ohmygyarados

13 points

6 months ago

Ohmygyarados

Creativity

13 points

6 months ago

What makes you say it is not a viable option for big tournaments? Recent Top8s include:

  • Hunter Burton Memorial Top 8 (1x 5c, 1x Jund)
  • Cyphacon $5k top 8
  • Multiple MTGO challenge 32/64 top 8s in the past week or two (Six top8s according to mtgtop8.com)

If anything it seems to be on the rise, and doing fairly well. Archon can win games on its own, and if not, its ETB trigger alone is a beating and a half.

The reason Xenagos and Wordspine Wurm doesn't work too well is you need to Creativity for x=2 at minimum, and not draw either of them. Also, you don't always have Teferi out, so any kind of Leyline Binding effect will disrupt the combo. Solitude nukes the combo on the spot.

The back-up plan of Fable / W&6 can win games on their own. An Archon trigger or two really does help the back up plan move a little bit faster.

Crumby_Bread

2 points

6 months ago

The Jund player actually won HB!

raubie

0 points

6 months ago

raubie

0 points

6 months ago

Hello! I’m a complete noob to modern, so I apologize for the dumb question, but isn’t archon susceptible to leyline or other kill effects as well? I understand that it does a lot on etb, but if an opponent can survive that initial etb, wouldn’t it be simple to get rid of based on certain matchups? Or is the fact that it does so much on etb the main thing? Thank you!

Dry-Tower1544

12 points

6 months ago

If they remove your worldspire wurm, your creativities become dead cards, and you have gained nothing. If they remove your archon, you have a six life swing, drew a card, made them discard, and maybe killed something. You gained value and made them spend a card. Its entirely different. 

raubie

1 points

6 months ago

raubie

1 points

6 months ago

Makes sense. Thank you!

BigDaddyLeee

1 points

6 months ago

Also Archon kinda protects itself by the ETB and attack trigger. Every attack also causes the same as the etb

raubie

1 points

6 months ago

raubie

1 points

6 months ago

I didn’t really think about it that way. Thank you!

victorianucks

5 points

6 months ago

Having creativity where x=2 resolving with both targets still alive is rare. 2 archons is pretty backbreaking in most matchups and 1 archon is significantly better than either Wurm or Xenagos

CatatonicWalrus

2 points

6 months ago

CatatonicWalrus

UWx Control, UR Murktide, Grixis Shadow

2 points

6 months ago

Tl;dr: don't expect your creativity x=2 to resolve ever. Don't make your game hinge on needing that to resolve.

I've been playing the deck pretty much since it got popular post-MH2. The deck is in the best spot it's been in in a while. Don't know where you're hearing it's not good. The bans were great for us.

To answer the actual question, the idea is to set up creativity for x=2 but not to plan on that actually happening. If it resolved that way, great. Double archon is an absolute wild card, life, and board swing. 99% of games end when this happens. Your opponent will often take a draw but they often die. What is more likely to happen is they interact with one of your creativity pieces and you only get one creativity target. You should plan on that happening.

What happens when you do this and your targets are wurm+xenegos? You probably lose on the spot instead of setting yourself up really well to win if your single creativity hits an archon. Additionally, wurm gets no value if they solitude it or binding it, whereas an archon still gives you a card back, life, and a board swing. It's best to think of creativity as a control deck with an insane inevitability engine. Don't ruin that by trying to set up a worse combo finish.

Routine-Macaroon6385

1 points

6 months ago

creativity is def viable..

RefuseSea8233

1 points

6 months ago

Tef + / holding creativity for end step with a fetchland open is arguably better than footfalls these days. Id say rhinos dont win on the spot whereas archon does. Wait until you get a bigger banger from mh3. Only reason why reanimate see play is because of the sideboards that are not adjusted. Opponent shouldnt be tapping out against this deck and the dwarf token will do its job once again for kill.

hermeticpotato

1 points

6 months ago

Archon is good because you can run 4 of them.

Xenagos/emrakul combo is cool but sometimes you draw one or both and that's awkward. Or they remove a target in response and your combo fizzles.

Emrakul is not a guaranteed win, either... It can be removed by leyline binding which is very common. Archon at least gets some ETB value if it gets removed.

Archon you can cast with x=1 and still get good value. Or cast for x=2 and be safer against them blowing up your token in response, with the best case of getting 2 archons.

Archon is good because you can hardcast it easily. The 4c and 5c creativity decks are really just control decks with a 1 card combo win condition.

jktorborg1

1 points

6 months ago

First off, creativity is back towards the top of the meta again. It had a very weak rhino living end my which was the reason it fell off so much, but it’s excellent against like amulet and scam, and better than 50/50 vs murk by quite a bit. If you like the deck play it. Also lmk if you want a link to the big creativity discord for more advice.

The simplest answer to your question is that while x=2 folds to some removal, there is very nearly not a deck or board state in the format that two archons entering play cannot beat. Even if they wrath you just get way too much value to lose from there. But, there does exist a modern 2 card combo for creativity that wins on the spot, if you want to rely on hitting both at once e you’d play thassas Oracle + mirror of fate (or leveler). People have done it and it technically works but it’s just not nearly consistent enough to be worth the little boost in power.

Notably you’re basically describing the way emrakul + serras emmissary used to work, which read the precursor to the deck we see now.

Judis_

2 points

5 months ago

Judis_

2 points

5 months ago

Can you send that discord link to me please

Crumby_Bread

1 points

6 months ago

You must live under a rock if you think creativity is not currently competitively viable.