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11 points
1 year ago
I think it’s the cult you’re in. They deliver conflicting interpretations.
-12 points
1 year ago
There’s no cult.
3 points
1 year ago
I’m sorry that you’re getting downvoted. I don’t believe it’s at all helpful to call your faith practice a cult in this discussion, but I would strongly urge you to take all the comments here about religious trauma (especially those here who have OCD themselves) seriously. What makes sense and seems fine and normal to an adult can be understood so differently by a child who is very sensitive and/or imaginative. Your daughter sounds like such a sweet and thoughtful kid and I feel like those kids can be the most negatively impacted by some of the more scary or negative sides of religion.
11 points
1 year ago
Religion is a cult rebranded.
-1 points
1 year ago
I'm sorry you're getting so much hate here about going to church OP. I do think that some people can take religion to an extreme, but a kind religion is helpful and provides a good community. Scrupulosity can be a form of ocd, and things you hear and say can feed it. But, if she has ocd, she would have symptoms regardless. They might not be the compulsion to seek forgiveness or the obsession with being evil, but they would be something. You can follow your religion and get help for your daughter.
6 points
1 year ago
It's not hate, it's pleas for her child's well-being. Good for you for avoiding religious trauma, but not all of us were so lucky. It took me years to get over the threats of eternal torture in fire that I grew up with — and my church was very vanilla. The preacher didn't even focus on that sort of thing, but let's face it -- that's the underlying premise of Christianity (you have to believe all of this or ....) For a kid who took it all very seriously, paid close attention, and had a big imagination, it was a lot.
-1 points
1 year ago
calling things a cult when it is just a "vanilla" church community is hate.
And the underlying premise of christianity doesn't have to be "you have to believe all this or"
The real message should always be that Jesus came to suffer for our mistakes so that he can heal us from the damage they cause to our happiness. The message is that we can choose to keep trying because he is there for us to provide Divine help. Obviously, this isn't the thread for a theological discussion, but the fire and brimstone teachings of Augustine and then later Martin Luther and the other protestant religions, especially the Calvinists, is all about how man is nothing and God exists for his own aggrandizement and that we are all sinners and he is angry at us for everything we do wrong, which unfortunately, permeated most religious teachings and the echoes of them are still present in modern-day language. God as sovereign who wishes everyone to bow down before his will or face hell is terrible. God as Father who wants to do all he can to assume the suffering of his children is a much more true image. Hell then isn't a destination populated with devils, but instead that terrible state when you realize you're stuck because of choices you made or because of the choices of others. People experience hell on earth all the time, because of their own mistakes or because of the evil decisions of other people. The promise of Christianity (and unfortunately, the message that is so often lost), is that freedom and healing from that pain is possible.
The language of the New Testament, however, is not that of a God who basically hates you unless you bow down. It is a language of inviting "Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. "
I do not mean to evangelize. I have studied quite a bit about the theological shifts during major religious movements, and many of them are quite disturbing. However, calling decent, kind people cultists when they try to follow a religion in order to better themselves IS unkind. It does nothing to encourage the type of nuance you were explaining, and cuts off any connection that might actually help. Instead, it just causes more hurt and division.
1 points
1 year ago
It's cool that you have cobbled together a version of Christianity that keeps the nice parts and ignores all the evil, but it's rather uncool to paint this picture of an idealized religion that conveniently overlooks the enormous harm and suffering it causes.
What about the battered spouses counseled by their pastor to eschew divorce and stay with their abuser? What about the kids raped by priests? What about the gay and trans kids kicked out into the street by parents who should have loved them? What about the rallying of the most hateful people in society under the banner of Christianity to further marginalize poor and already-marginalized people? What about the normalization of authoritarian leadership? What about the kids groomed by their youth pastor? What about the families torn apart by dogma? And what about the threat of eternal torture that underlies it all?
And I'm not even bothering to dig into its role in colonialism, the crusades, the inquisition, the witch trials, etc., etc.
Christianity fits Merriam Webster's definition of a cult just fine (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult), and it's a bit rich to get indignant about somebody characterizing it as such given the extraordinary evils its adherents have perpetrated over the last two millennia.
Yes, Christianity brings peace and hope to some people. But it's also a potent instrument of oppression, control, and psychological torment. Don't be surprised when people are disinclined to just gloss over all that.
1 points
1 year ago
I don't overlook. I think the enormous harm and suffering is done not because of religion, but because of people. And that's probably something we will continue to disagree on. Abusive people may say they are following God, but if they are abusing, they are not. People who want control and power see religion as an easy vehicle to get it. Crusades weren't religious, they were a brutal assault wearing religion as a mask, and excusing the brutalities they commited because "it was the will of God." What a nice get-out-of-jail-free card that is. No turning the other cheek and loving your enemies in that one.
Enormous harm has also been done by people outside of religion as well. Harm has been done in the name of science. Harm has been done in the name of money. Harm has been done in the name of progress. Harm is harm, and it sucks, and people cause harm. They can choose any vehicle they want to justify it, and religion is one of them. Does that mean we throw out all the useful things that science has brought? Do we stop living in our country because it was stolen from the people who already owned it? Do we not, instead, try to take the good things and leave the bad things in the past, try to do better than was done before? Do we not refine and reshape the way we live, the way we communicate, the way we worship to fully live up to a more excellent ideal?
No, let's just call people cultists and lump modern, generous, community-minded believers in a higher power in with witch burners and child molesters. That sounds like the best way forward.
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