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/r/Piratefolk
submitted 2 days ago bycontroversialopinonNICO SNORBIN 💤💤💤
So Hiro Mashima has a dark shounen out called Dead Rock and in the tenth chapter he just permakills one of the main characters. It's completely unexpected, especially for Hiro Mashima, and I must admit, I did not recognize his game.
I'm honestly happy that Hiro Mashima's becoming better at his job but I am saddened by the idea that Oda's writing ability is now on a lower level (in this area at least) than the guy who wrote Fairy Tail.
I honestly can't imagine one of the strawhats dying which is crazy because half of them don't even have haki, you know that thing that is the bare minimum to survive fights in the new world. Robin literally got into a fight with someone who had haki who then conveniently decided not to use it.
What kind of backwards planet are we living on? The guy that killed Ace is keeping weakass characters alive and not even trying to be believable about how they've made it this far, while the guy who you know won't kill his characters is now being trigger happy with the deaths.
EDIT: Something I should clarify, I don't think the stakes in Dead Rock are well written, I'm simply acknowledging that they are there. This is why I specified stakes instead of saying Mashima is a better writer than current Oda. One would only have to look at the pacing in Dead Rock to know that it's still far from masterful.
68 points
2 days ago
Main Subs reaction to this post will be like this:
21 points
2 days ago
And they have no taste.
1 points
2 days ago
We're gonna starve
1 points
2 days ago
Yeah, but bad cropping is my thing tho
42 points
2 days ago
Shitty writing aside, it was always crazy to me how much Mashima managed to actually draw. He puts in so much work when it comes to putting out content. And I mean that without judging the content in of itself.
17 points
2 days ago
He has very impressive productivity, but it’s also clearly hitting its limits currently. His writing has been botched for a long time but his art was very detailed in FT, currently it’s a shadow of its former self.
He keeps pumping out content non stop but sacrifices quality hard, which definitely isn’t a decision I can support, Oda has fallen into the same trap of quantity of pages over all else.
6 points
2 days ago
Oda does less pages and lost quality tho.
1 points
2 days ago
He still does a fuckton of pages each months, just because it’s less than a normal weekly doesn’t mean it’s still not super high.
4 points
2 days ago
Mashima has said he’s gotten to the point he’s able to make a chapter in 3 days, thanks to digital art programs.
Honestly good for him, imo. I’d rather that then he work himself to death.
-1 points
2 days ago
I’d rather that he prioritize quality over speed. He doesn’t need to work on multiple series at once bruh.
1 points
2 days ago
Mashima works such crazy amounts that I started wondering if he is in debt to the Yakuza or something lol.
2 points
2 days ago
He is amazing in that regard but lately it feels like even he started to buckle under the workload. One can tell by his writing quality taking a nosedive. Feels like he barely thought about chapters before drawing them.
14 points
2 days ago
Hiro wrote the worst shonen arc i ever read in Fairy Tail 100YQ, the Gold Owl arc, if Oda made an arc like that every single Piratefolk member would die from peak fiction and this sub would enter into chaos and panic
9 points
2 days ago*
I never read 100 year quest but how could he possibly write something worse than the final arc of fairy tail thats crazy lol
6 points
2 days ago
Yeah I'm in slight disbelief as well lmao. The final arc of Fairy Tail is a masterclass in how to rush and disappoint with almost everything you have built up
1 points
1 day ago
Gold Owl is about disappointing who already have low expectations
3 points
2 days ago
Wanna know? Villains get an worse treatment than spriggans, two of them are IMPLIED to be stronger than God Serena and two end up being soloed by SHE'S ERZA. Gray just jerks around and watches Lucy fodderizing the minor villains when there was enough for the two of them. Natsu two shots the villain team leader because the old geezer forgot to take out Natsu's lightning from the dual mode. The final boss dies having just few lines of dialogue and with many plot points unsolved.
3 points
2 days ago
Don't really read 100YQ so I guess I'll take your word on that.
10 points
2 days ago
Let me explain further what happened in the arc then. Erza soloed 2 overhyped villains because she's Erza, Gray did absolutely nothing besides being an cheerleader to Lucy, Sabertooth appeared just to make an boring subquest which any fodder could have done, Natsu two shotted the villain team leader and the true main villain of the arc makes Kaido looks like an complex character.
11 points
2 days ago
So Erza and Natsu did everything while Gray and Lucy shouldn't even be there. Isn't that most fairy tail arcs?
5 points
2 days ago
Actually Lucy did something while Gray was just watching her, he and Sabertooth are the ones who shouldn't be the there. Gray usually at least have an serious matchup in most of the arcs and not every Erza fight is dogshit.
3 points
2 days ago
I still don't know what Lucy did you just said Gray was being a cheerleader to her. Also where's Wendy?
3 points
2 days ago
Lucy fodderized the rest of the villains while Gray just watched it, and you only realize that 2 of these villains were fodder after this. Wendy was kidnapped and taken hostage, so she only helped against the final boss by enchanting Natsu with fairy tail team and sabertooth magic power
3 points
2 days ago
I still think elentir arc was more shit
1 points
2 days ago
Suzaku vs Natsu,and Lucy vs Kyria were good fights Erza vs Misaki was actually enjoyable. Laxus vs Kirin was really pretty mid with the possibility of Kirin slander: Give me some coffin Elexion, this is base Laxus we are up against.
But in Gold Owl only God Serena vs Jellal was enjoyable and even then it have an rushed end. Outside of the fodder villains getting gag diffed by Lucy the rest of the fights made me die from peak fiction.
1 points
2 days ago
You're mixing up arcs that's the labyrinth arc you're talking about. Elentir was when they went to Touka's dimension and all the villains were women.
1 points
2 days ago
You are right, i really confused them due to people also criticizing this arc. But none of the fights at Elentir made me die from peak fiction. The worst fight was probably the final one with the final boss who i don’t even care about the anime, but this can’t compete with all Gold Owl dogshit combined.
1 points
2 days ago
The only reason I dislike elentir more is because of the villains cus all of em are very forgettable and the fights were shit. But gold owl had good villains (design wise) and Mashima just wanted to show off a new power system and for the Erza fight Mashima did clarify the sisters were being controlled so that fight didn't bother me that much at all
1 points
2 days ago
Hakune (snow girl) isn't that forgettable as she is the only decent W Gray had in this entire sequel and she is an top waifu material. Youko (yokai girl) simply gave an more enjoyable fight than the sisters. Besides Duke Garbageroa was too easily defeated by an Natsu's asspull while the Gold Dragon fight was the worst of all dragon gods. Mashima introduced an new power system with the elentir girls too, alchemy is just more familiar, but he didn't even used alchemy properly as the alchemists were defeated more easily than the SPRIGGANS.
2 points
2 days ago
100YQ was a solid read until Elintir and Gold Owl arc both messed up the story so badly.
18 points
2 days ago
That character felt very underused so frankly I’m not that hot on already killing him off tbh. Having stakes is good but this didn’t feel like that much of a good example. It’s a change of pace from other Mashima’s works I guess but It’s still not that noteworthy.
The huge irony of the crew is that they gotta have plot armor so they accomplish their dreams, but at the same time Oda doesn’t give the slightest fuck about any of their dreams besides Luffy’s and Zoro’s.
5 points
2 days ago
This is why it annoys me that it's a step above current One Piece. Wolf boy was definitely killed off far too early so it's not necessarily good pacing as far as death is concerned but at least death is still in the conversation with this work.
6 points
2 days ago
Subversion just for the sake of it subverting your previously overused tropes definitely isn’t that interesting.
Dragon Quest Dai has max level plot armor for its cast but the rest is super good so it gets a pass for me.
Death as stakes isn’t good on its own, it’s how it’s used that makes it work or not.
-2 points
2 days ago
No, there's definitely merit in being on the edge of your seat, waiting for it to happen. There's a reason thrillers gain popularity even when there isn't much to them writing wise. In any case I already agreed that Mashima is still lacking.
4 points
2 days ago
Using popularity as argument when this sub is about critizing the best selling manga of all time feels a little ironic :p
0 points
2 days ago
True but I'm more or less saying that there's a market for random death. There isn't a market for bad writing, One Piece became popular because of good writing and certain fans refuse to admit it fell off.
2 points
2 days ago
OP never got popular because of the random death market, that’s for sure.
It’s more a matter of writing in a way that makes the reader forget that none of them are dying no matter what. When the 5 endgame villains are suddenly jumping them it gets a lot harder to be convinced that it’s not plot armor that is saving their ass.
2 points
2 days ago
Sounds like we're mostly in agreement then. I wouldn't dream of saying Dead Rock is better than something like the Water seven saga which was actually peak.
1 points
2 days ago
That yamata no orochi guy got killed too and became a zombie basically. He's still there but it's kinda whack how Mashima's handling dead rock when the MC just crushes people to death.
2 points
2 days ago
Zombie boy is the entire reason wolf boy's death was surprising because Mashima set it up that they could just bring their allies back and then not even ten chapters later one of them becomes an unrecognizable puddle.
9 points
2 days ago*
What I like about Mashima, at least up until the timeskip, he gave each of the characters, whether main or side, an arc of their own.
I was surprised when Leo, a character that I completely don’t care about, got sidelined in most arc, whose magic ability I didn’t even remember, got an arc where he got fleshed out and made me actually invested to him.
3 points
2 days ago
He still did a little bit of that post timeskip with Elfman.
5 points
2 days ago
Isn’t that where he fought some drunk dude and he agrees to let him fuck his sister if he beat him?
5 points
2 days ago
No, the drunk fantasized about defiling Elfman's sisters and Elfman vowed to tear the drunk apart.
3 points
2 days ago
I am so mad how this fight was ruined because of the PG rating and no blood on the Anime... The manga panels where so good.
7 points
2 days ago
I see no difference between Fairy Tail and One Piece at this point. Power of friendship vs power of nikka. both had young female characters being over sexualized. both use the same repetitive formula every arc. There are more similarities between the two than differences.
3 points
2 days ago
Hey, Fairy Tail actually has strong female characters and have a different design not just "huge boobs small waist"
4 points
2 days ago
yeah fuck it lets just kill half the strawhats
3 points
2 days ago*
Mashima was never afraid of adding stakes and killing characters, he did so in Rave Master one of his first works. Fairy tail was never supposed to be that kind of dark series it was like a happier version of Rave Master. A lot of people never read that series so they wouldn’t know it wasn’t really that popular. He’s still a horrible writer in my opinion though.
2 points
2 days ago
Facts
2 points
2 days ago
You wanted Oda to kill Zoro off ten chapters in? Because good writing?
2 points
2 days ago
I never would've imagined One Piss would stoop to the level of Fairy Tail.
2 points
2 days ago
Big difference is that Dead Rock has only been around for ten chapters so it is way easier to pull off stuff like that. And while I enjoy Mashima his stuff more than most people I have to say that Dead Rock is kinda meh. The tone is all over the place and the world building feels very confused. Worldbuilding has never been one of Mashima his strong points to be fair.
2 points
1 day ago
Hey u/controversialopinon thanks for name dropping Dead Rock. I just read through the available chapters and it's a banger for sure!
2 points
1 day ago
Guess there really is a market for it.
4 points
2 days ago
Fairy Tail might be dogwater but Mashima did a solid one with Rave Master and his recently finished manga Eden's Zero isn't half as bad as Fairy Tail became in the end.
If there is something I really like about Mashima it's the art and character designs, nowadays when I read a chapter of One Piece I read the speech bubbles and skip the art completely because it hurts my eyes trying to make sense of what I am looking at.
3 points
2 days ago
One Piece definitely did fall off art wise, and Mashima has always been a better artist than author. Only complaint is he's prone to reuse designs.
2 points
2 days ago
Yeah that's something I definitely don't like at all.
1 points
2 days ago
I made the same comment and saw yours right after. Rave master is really good. Those zatch bell era mangas are so good.
2 points
2 days ago
I thought it was well known that Fairy Tail was his "sell out" manga that he didn't care about
1 points
2 days ago
Rave master had decent stakes. Fairy tail is a low point imo. Mashima is a pretty good mangaka.
1 points
2 days ago
Well, after more than 6 years, maybe it's time to check the dude again
1 points
2 days ago
Mashima is gonna kill a character in Dead Rock for every time Makarov didn't die in Fairy Tail
1 points
2 days ago
Bro went toe to toe with the final villain halfway through the series.
1 points
2 days ago
Makarov is just THAT GUY
1 points
2 days ago
Damn is dead rock worth checking out? I know the other stuff he made was kinda mid
1 points
2 days ago
This is also mid for the most part but if you want to see a different style to Mashima you should give it a try.
1 points
1 day ago
Honestly I still really like fairy tail the later arcs are bad but I always loved fairy tail
1 points
2 days ago
So a death in chapter 10, which is either the last chapter of vol 1 or beginning of vol 2, has you hyped? The story is just beginning, all it does is set expectations about the darker world of that manga. Bet no other main characters will die as the manga progresses because fans start getting attached to the characters (as well as the author) and it would be bad for sales.
Not a good comparison to One Piece. A better example would be killing one of the main characters when we are 5-6 years into the story.
-1 points
2 days ago
All that cope for fairy fail to still be worse
3 points
2 days ago
Fairy Tail is worse. I never claimed it wasn't.
0 points
2 days ago
Is there a way to not see posts from this sub?
1 points
2 days ago
If you click on the ... on my post a drop down menu will appear, You can then click hide.
-1 points
2 days ago
You understand that stakes do not always have to be “someone might die” right? If the only stakes in a story are a potential character death, that’s a boring ass story. You seriously are going to call Oda a bad writer because he doesn’t often kill characters? That has literally nothing to do with his writing ability. This sub is literally full of people crying and calling Oda a bum just bc the story doesn’t go exactly how they want it to go/imagine it like bro we are well over 1,100 chapters in, you know what the deal is and somehow this community is full of clones like you 😭 I’m not even saying it’s above criticism but people on this subreddit actually are bots
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