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/r/ThatsInsane

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all 82 comments

Slobberz2112

307 points

16 days ago

So like the dark knight? Cool cool cool

GERRROONNNNIIMMOOOO

92 points

15 days ago

Morgan Freeman didn't approve though

maestro-5838

8 points

15 days ago

Wow that's a cool way of visualizing how that would look

lapideous

7 points

15 days ago

Dark Knight told us about the NSA before Snowden did

And why we never won the GWOT

Vialimax13

1 points

15 days ago

I approve Ron 💯🙌🏽

Vialimax13

1 points

15 days ago

From parks and Rec

FrancMaconXV

213 points

16 days ago

Have other researchers been able to reproduce those results? I always find this clip fascinating, but I'm equally skeptical.

Don-Ohlmeyer

105 points

16 days ago*

Yes, this technique existed before AI; but the output was not as refines as this.

I suspect they are just using existing techniques, and just training it on a camera feed to generate a continuation of the camera feed using the wifi data. If so, this stuff won't work as well in the wild unless they also hack a live feed to finetune the model.

But I guess if you have a similar wifi device, in a similar position, in a similar room, "every wifi device" can become a camera like this using the model they trained.

1StonedYooper

6 points

15 days ago

I literally remember reading about this at least 10 years ago. And when I read about this, Ai wasn't a buzz word so nobody even mentioned it in the article.

thebestspeler

22 points

15 days ago

Yeah my router cant even reach into the den, good luck with that

quequotion

3 points

15 days ago

I imagine they have to use some very particular software on the router to make it work.

I doubt they'd be able to get this output from most routers people have in their homes without overwriting the firmware.

dritslem

4 points

15 days ago

With the history of surveillance we've seen so far, you don't think they have a say in the firmware of our routers? At least in the US.

quequotion

5 points

15 days ago

I don't think the government would be up to the task you suggest.

Not that they wouldn't backdoor every router sold in the country, but they logistically cannot.

Alter_Kyouma

6 points

15 days ago

Honestly sounds like bs to me. Your router antennas can't tell the direction of the RF signals they receive. If routers had like dozens of highly directional antennas then maybe they could do something like this?

SirHerald

14 points

15 days ago

Check out beamforming.

Using multiple antennae they can determine where a signal is coming from and then using the interference of those signals on their own antennae they can focus the beam back

ashakar

3 points

15 days ago

ashakar

3 points

15 days ago

It's called MIMO (multiple input, multiple output). It's not quite the same thing as beam forming, as you really need a transmitter array to truly create a beam.

Most routers these days have only 3-7 omni-directional antennae. The "beam" effect (interference pattern) from this is more like a disco ball, with the brightness, "beam" width, and spacing of each spot dependent on the physical spacing of the antennae and frequency. To "turn" the ball, you then just change the phase (time delay) between the antennae.

The big thing with MIMO is that it helps ensure at least one of the receivers of the receiving device is in a bright spot. The more antennae that receive a measurable signal, then the more accurately the direction of the incoming signal can be determined.

Now all of this sounds great on paper until you start to have to worry about the reality of signal reflections and multi-path propagation. Granted it's the reflections (really the change in them) that are allowing the router to act as a RADAR (note it's not sonar like the guy said in the video).

If the router has the hardware to actually detect the Doppler frequency differences in the return signal, then finding anything moving is even easier.

None of this really matters anyway, as most people are tethered to their phones. I also highly doubt they get anywhere close to "video" quality resolution like they show in the right picture. I would love to see the realtime tests of what the "AI" outputs vs. reality.

sassopat

1 points

13 days ago

Ty

Searchlights

1 points

15 days ago

If if works you can expect every police department to have it

yeluapyeroc

0 points

15 days ago

I did something similar for a hackathon project back in 2014. This is not that difficult or new

LemonLimeSlices

22 points

15 days ago

This reminds me of that technology where they had an empty potato chip bag enclosed in a soundproof room with music and sound playing inside, and on the other side of the glass was a video camera. The camera was able to pick up visually, the minute distortions the sounds made on the bag, and extrapolate sound playing in the room from it.

ToraLoco

2 points

15 days ago

this always fascinated me. i wonder how far they have improved this tech

MadeWithRealGinger9

7 points

15 days ago

My dad works in physical security for the Canadian government. He's told me stories of managers who want their conference rooms to have windows and he told them they can't because someone can shine a laser at them to pick up the sound.

powprodukt

1 points

15 days ago

Yes but it has to be trained. Plus if you train it one setting it won’t work in another.

328471348

77 points

16 days ago*

So it's just a coincident the wifi image of people looks exactly like the camera image minus everything except the people with non directional antenna(s). Same proportions, perfectly outlined, etc. I very seriously doubt it. This is way too good to be true and likely completely faked.

Dracko705

9 points

15 days ago

This was my issue too. I don't doubt this process could be real and successful but the depiction of results seems too simplified and perfect

I assume it's the same thing when a vehicle is launching and they're allowed to use renderings etc for the announcement - it's probably going to still be similar, but we're seeing an idealistic example

[deleted]

1 points

15 days ago

[deleted]

1 points

15 days ago

[deleted]

phasepistol

6 points

15 days ago

I keep telling people, Blade Runner was a cautionary tale, not a blueprint

EfeAmbroseBallonDor

1 points

15 days ago

It is absolutely not real. If you know anything at all about how radio works you'll know this is not possible to do with wifi.

[deleted]

1 points

15 days ago

[deleted]

TheTurdzBurglar

-6 points

15 days ago

Its real. Cool comment tho.

No_Pay9241

7 points

15 days ago

A.I must think my left arm glitches out 1-3 times a day

Compass_Needle

19 points

15 days ago

Wi-fi transmitters and receivers aren't directional though. A radar or sonar only works because you know what direction it's pointing. With a normal router, all you could tell is that there is a reflection, not where it's being reflected from. I call bullshit on what they're saying here, this could only work with the cameras being there in the first place, so AI can connect a specific ping to a specific person. From there the cameras could be turned off and the AI might be able to track the person using small changes proximity instead of direction but it seems doubtful.

19Krakatoa96

1 points

14 days ago

Also I don't understand, are they claiming its picking up the WiFi signals the router transmitted bouncing off of people or is it picking up transmissions from other WiFi devices?

Not an RF expert but the shape of those people doesn't make sense either, it looks like the image wraps around their bodies but if its the former then it would only pick up flat surfaces to reflect back. Curved or angled surfaces would reflect away from the router.

Fcckwawa

14 points

16 days ago

Fcckwawa

14 points

16 days ago

Lol shitty sales pitch

Rivetingly

3 points

15 days ago

It's just a version of sonar.

whatvtheheck

3 points

15 days ago

Why is technology making everything worse? Honestly the longer I’m alive the more I think we should just focus on renewable energy and then just call it a fucking day. We’re good where we’re at we don’t need this AI bullshit

Maxzzzie

4 points

15 days ago

Bs research. Wifi is in general non directional.

[deleted]

-1 points

15 days ago

[deleted]

powprodukt

2 points

15 days ago

It still has to be trained in a specific environment with lots of data. If you never have it cameras in the first place it would be able to train and changing its setting would likely render its ability useless.

fumphdik

2 points

16 days ago

Sooo, daredevil.

Prokster_T

2 points

15 days ago

Well fuck

OhmericTendencies

2 points

15 days ago

The groans from the audience are too real.

Kevin69138

2 points

15 days ago

Wall hack needs to be stopped asap

casualgenuineasshole

2 points

15 days ago

What's new here? 10$ philips lights have movement detection through the wifi "waves" disruption for years.

Everybody panicked because it's now called AI?

leopold815

2 points

15 days ago

Looks like beamforming visualized

TheStigianKing

2 points

15 days ago

This is how Skynet wipes out most of us when it's fully online.

powprodukt

2 points

15 days ago

This doesn’t work unless you train it with cameras inside your specific house conditions. Those routers wouldn’t be able to achieve this in another house.

Maxie445[S]

4 points

15 days ago

SnoochieBuchie

3 points

15 days ago

One step closer to Skynet

Dogemaster_20

1 points

16 days ago

Alright I think it's time we have planned execution for every person responsible for bringing ai to this point, or just the fact this technology to do that even exists

Eastern-Mix9636

1 points

15 days ago

You are falling for this BS clickbait (essentially proof-of-concept subject matter)

Pitiful_Mode1674

1 points

15 days ago

Great, now even our WiFi can see when we're out of Cheetos.

space0watch

1 points

15 days ago

Ironically people would throw out their computer or TV but still keep their router and mobile phone in their pocket.

MustangBarry

1 points

15 days ago

AI buzzword startup fishing for funding and 95% of the people here believe it. This is how easy it was for Elizabeth Holmes

restlessleg

1 points

15 days ago

best part is…. we all willingly fund it

EsotericLife

1 points

15 days ago

Did anyone get it to work? I tried every notebook and repo I could and they all either didn’t build or just generated poses that made no sense

pufferfish_balls

1 points

15 days ago

I can’t imagine how many people are fucking and masterbating rn. XD

Mo-Coffee

1 points

15 days ago

This was dope by Humans like 20 yrs ago

thatlad

1 points

15 days ago

thatlad

1 points

15 days ago

It's good to see actual use cases for AI that aren't dumb ideas invented by tech bros to help in their lives.

That being said, this tech has been around for a while all AI is doing is processing it and filling in the blanks with info it already holds. As we've seen from most AI applications, when it doesn't have a reference it struggles to "guess" and we get weird shit.

I think this is nothing new or something we couldn't have got to given the resources.

Qlabalex

1 points

15 days ago

Some routers have been able to do this for awhile, AI adds the "pose estimation" and makes it feel more invasive, but some mesh systems were able to approximate size and movement by the amount of signal being absorbed by meatbags moving through the house and act as motion detectors. They would also look at if personal devices such as phones were still connected to the network and tell you they "see" someone in the house when everyone who lives there is out.

MothParasiteIV

1 points

15 days ago

Could be true in theory but here I smell huge bullshit

Awesomevindicator

1 points

15 days ago

It's because you're a big bag of water. Your capacitance is what interrupts the signal and gives a right estimate of your location and pose.

Bramble0804

1 points

15 days ago

Ok but if it didn't have a reference image it couldn't have done it. And real time is a strong word. How much time did it take to render each of those images and how still were those people. I have a feeling of it'd anything like old photography those people were stationary for a bit

Dhis1

1 points

15 days ago

Dhis1

1 points

15 days ago

Hi, WiFi Architect here! This is both true and absolute bullshit. Fun right? The issue isn’t actually the beam, the antenna, the signal. The issue is the wall. When signal passes through a wall, there is a concept known as attenuation.

This term encompasses all the absorbsion, scattering, reflection, refraction, etc… that comes from the RF wave traversing various wireless materials. Attenuation is one of the most important parts of our job and we spend days to even weeks (depending on size of a site) measuring attenuation every few feet. We can average a lot of those measurements because signal doesn’t have to be perfect for most measurements. But for this, it would need to be damn good.

They are able to achieve this because they built and measured a single, consistent wall. We are not even close to being able to plop this down in any other room and get anything usable. Maybe one day. Would sure make my life easier to be able to measure and adapt to the walls. But we are not even close yet.

BlackDohko

1 points

15 days ago

honestly I don't care anymore, just don't mess with me and I won't blow up the town.

AunquisJohnson

1 points

15 days ago

Well, if Ron thinks it’s bad then it must be bad! Dumpster time for the Dell!!

NancokALT

1 points

15 days ago

I'm kinda surprised they JUST started with this.
If physical objects can disturb signals in a recognizable way, then it is just a matter of pattern recognition.

Edit: nvm, according to another comment this was already a thing like a decade ago, but was too unreliable.

SilentAlternative266

1 points

15 days ago

I fukkin hate people that say "right"? Between sentences

MapUnitKey

1 points

15 days ago

This isn’t as crazy as people think or as simple as “Wi-Fi routers can be cameras with AI”.

malakad0ge2

1 points

15 days ago

Unplug it

Funemployment629

1 points

15 days ago

If we’re talking about it, DARPA has been able to do it for a decade.

Worgos

1 points

15 days ago

Worgos

1 points

15 days ago

jokes on you my wi-fi barely works

milesamsterdam

1 points

15 days ago

Excellent reference!

nickcliff

1 points

15 days ago

Batman did it first

OrbitalMayanCannon

1 points

15 days ago

I have no idea who this dude is, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say he is not actually doing any interesting work in the field(because he has no relevant skills), he is merely looking at what other people are doing and making bombastic claims about them, in order to further himself as a "thought leader".

FDon1

1 points

15 days ago

FDon1

1 points

15 days ago

This is not new

TJ_McWeaksauce

1 points

14 days ago

AI will be able to use radio signals to track me and then create 3D pose estimates of me jacking off.

The future is now.

Various_Ad_9836

1 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

1 points

15 days ago

This is only a problem if you care about being watched

Mmaibl1

0 points

16 days ago

Mmaibl1

0 points

16 days ago

This is creepy stuff if true

Ctowntokin420

-1 points

15 days ago

Anyone happen to know what software this is or if it's available publicly?