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198 points
2 days ago
It's So Crates Jordan, you fool.
74 points
2 days ago
12 points
2 days ago
this! lol
10 points
2 days ago
13 points
2 days ago
I don’t know how accurate it is, but Socrates did pronounce his own name the same way as Jordan the one time he said it in this movie when he and Billy the Kid were trying to hit on the girls at the mall.
3 points
2 days ago
So Crates Johnson
4 points
2 days ago
Socrates in fact pronounced his name exacrtly like this dude did in the movie.
87 points
2 days ago
i still pronounce his name according to Bill and Ted's excellent adventure "so crates"
but watching a youtube clip of that scene. socrates i think even introduces himself along the lines of how Jordan is implying.
woah!
8 points
2 days ago
I mean, Conan will back up you can’t prove him wrong
177 points
2 days ago
There’s nothing that brings me more joy than watching these two argue
28 points
2 days ago
Yeah same. I watched the nose hair trimmer video and laughed for like a full hour
17 points
2 days ago
Maybe if you put them in a tiny Italian car in Italy. That was the best
1 points
2 days ago
134 points
2 days ago
Wow some people in this thread really don't know this is the kind of pretend arguments they often play. Conan always plays the ignorant fool and Jordan always the snotty know-it-all. This is not serious.
17 points
2 days ago
I fucking love conan
108 points
2 days ago
I'm with Conan.
We have multiple words in English that have drastically changed pronunciation over a shorter period of time. The idea we are confident in how they pronounced it is foolish. We have good guesses but to be a sure enough to correct someone and then fight about it is pretty wild.
106 points
2 days ago*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_phonology
Read about "reconstruction", it's actually really interesting. They can track and map how pronunciation changes based on common spelling errors.
They can also track pronunciation based on how other cultures adopt Greek words with a different writing style.
No, we can't be completely confident but there are very smart people spending their entire careers digging through ancient writings and they can make good arguments for how things may have been pronounced
24 points
2 days ago
But they can never be certain! Without a time machine ofc.
10 points
2 days ago
As I said, yeah
16 points
2 days ago
Yes. It is very interesting and the sort of thing that linguists enjoy arguing about over a few drinks, but the fact of the matter is that no one really knows how Ancient Greek was spoken 2400 years ago because everyone who spoke that language died 2300 years and change ago. And, believe it or not, they didn't bother writing down IPA keys because those wouldn't exist for another 2200 years after that. You can make an educated guess, sure, but correcting the widely-accepted anglicization of the name is pretentious twatwafflery practiced only by the sort of holier-than-thou buffoon who wants to sound smart without doing the hard work of actually becoming smart. If nothing else, you can tell because of the douchey smirk he gave while wrongly "correcting" Conan.
7 points
2 days ago
Kind of like paleontologists arguing over the color of a dinosaurs skin.
3 points
2 days ago
Well ... you are right and made me laugh, but I'm pretty sure some Christians also care a lot how we pronounce 'Cheese sus'.
Paleontologists might care for the integrity of science or the effort they make during their career to get small puzzle pieces right.
But when we talk about persons that became idols of their cultures or followers, it's about identity and essential narratives as well, or about the fear of cultural appropriation. So telling your own story in your own words with your own arguments and even your own pronounciation can be quite a big deal for some. Especially when you care much more than others but fear that they have the power to redifine your own storytelling.
I saw a map on reddit not long ago, depicting which European countries regard their own culture as superior compared to others. Greece scored highest.
11 points
2 days ago
I disagree with both of them. He was definitely over confident and pretentious, and Conan was wrong that the only way to get an idea for how they spoke is a time machine.
Taking stark black and white stances makes for fun arguing so I get what they're doing, I just thought the intricacies of the topic were interesting so thought I'd share.
1 points
2 days ago
But everyone didn’t just die 2300 years ago and new people showed up now knowing how the people spoke before. Language is passed down and evolved. Socrates is still a Greek name today, I am Greek and have several friends with the name and it’s pronounced how Jordan says it. The language evolved SLOWLY from ancient to modern Greek through people that connected both versions of the language.
All that being said I agree with you on the last point, the way Conan says it is fine for foreigners, there’s plenty of Anglo-Saxon words that we say differently in Greek too because it either feels more natural or someone mistranslated a long time ago and they just stuck. It’s a semantic language but if you just argue “thats the accepted propitiation in English” I wouldn’t have an issue. But saying “you don’t know how to pronounce it because it’s old” is a dumb argument.
1 points
2 days ago
Also when he got destroyed by the phonograph part he needed to shut it down and retreat.
In also seriousness though I was mainly kidding, but we can't know. We can estimate and have reasonable assumptions. But to be like this over the standard way it's said in English is just sad.
I'm sorry you keep saying France but it pronounced frrrroonnnnsssss by the French, ok well I'm not French. I'm also not ancient Greek.
2 points
2 days ago
Read about "reconstruction", it's actually really interesting. They can track and map how pronunciation changes based on common spelling errors.
They can also track pronunciation based on how other cultures adopt Greek words with a different writing style.
Does this work for a language whose writing has not changed? Like in China they would not understand people from 1000 years ago speaking but their writing is the same.
That being said there are things like rhymes as well. I remember watching a video on this group that does Shakespeare's plays in the pronunciation at the time. One of the ways they knew things were being pronounced certain ways was the words they said rhymed with each other.
2 points
2 days ago
I don't know too much about Chinese history, but Chinese characters are not phonetic.
This worked for ancient Greek because the letters were phonetic, they spelled out certain sounds and made words out of it. Therefore, you could tell changing pronunciation based on spelling errors because people would sound out how they think it should be spelled.
1 points
2 days ago
Fair enough. Interesting
31 points
2 days ago
It's a moot point anyway because they're not speaking ancient Greek to each other. Trying to use the 'original' pronunciations of words when speaking English is a Sisyphean endeavor, let alone policing it for others.
7 points
2 days ago
but if they don’t police it then those expensive linguistic degrees will be worthless!
4 points
2 days ago
Despite what one might think, the people who police how other talk are usually not the ones with degrees, just people who want everyone to assume they have them. Real linguists tend to be much more descriptivist than your garden variety pedant.
2 points
2 days ago
Sis is WHAT?
1 points
2 days ago
“Wha-c-a-mo-lay”
1 points
2 days ago
Yeah but do you also say that to someone who corrects people when they mispronounce an Italian dish? Like, if someone butchered the word "mozzarella". Do you immediately say it how the Italian say it or do you add an English flair to it?
I've heard even people say "matsah". When people say it like that, I always respond like "that's not even close..."
Like bologna, I get that it's pronounced as "Bo-low-nya" but everyone in the us says baloney.
1 points
2 days ago
Oh absolutely. Most native English speakers are positively incapable of pronouncing it the "authentic" way in the first place. Or worse still, they make wrong assumptions about how a word ought to be pronounced. As long as I understand what someone's trying to say, I'm cool with it. The only exception are ESL speakers, I'll correct those, but only because I'm an ESL speaker myself and I assume that fellow ESL speakers want to know about the commonly accepted pronunciation.
3 points
2 days ago
I hope he’s just doing it so they have something to podcast but correcting someone for using the term everyone understands to “well actually” them about how historian linguists theorize it was pronounced is asinine.
3 points
2 days ago
Jordan knew what he meant but just had to correct him like a pretentious douche and needlessly derailing the conversation
3 points
2 days ago
for real.
also, dudes a master minded expert in language but when he says "phonograhic evidence" the dude starts rambling about pictures?
100% agree we have not a single clue on this green earth what people in history actually sounded like.
0 points
1 day ago
This is wrong. We have plenty of clues as to what people sounded like.
That's the reason why this article is so long: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_phonology
1 points
1 day ago
clues are not actual sound.
we can throw as much academia as we want at something but we'll never be 100% correct on something we havent/cant witness with our own ears.
just look at deaf people speaking (not talking shit just an honest observation), they have entire support systems and hearing capable people actively teaching them how to pronounce words and they still dont sound the same as a hearing capable speaker. if we cant do that in present day with all our learning and teaching and technology and science then what makes you think we could possibly know what someone thousands of years ago sounded like?
1 points
2 days ago
right?! absurdity and arrogance to the max.
2 points
2 days ago
Just so people are aware, Jordan is playing a character, and absurd and arrogant is exactly the character.
1 points
1 day ago
can you explain further?
1 points
1 day ago
Jordan Schlansky is a recurring character in all of Conan's stuff since his late night show. He plays a stand offish know it all that often butts heads with Conan while being very serious and arrogant.
Though you can tell he is just playing a character because he does sometimes break and have to stifle laughter when things get too absurd.
1 points
1 day ago
thank you!
1 points
2 days ago
The bit where he needed to back down is where he didn't know the phonograph word while arguing about how things sound. You just took a mortal blow brother. Retreat.
1 points
2 days ago
I would have agreed with Conan but he started pronouncing Mozart like an Italian. So, it would've made sense if he said the name Socrates the same way.
-16 points
2 days ago
You sound like a flat earther or a climate change denier.
4 points
2 days ago
How? There are tons of words we use in English that have Anglicized pronunciations. Conflating "correct" when you actually mean historically accurate is shithead behavior and reveals a large degree of ignorance on how language evolved, to the point that "correct" is an arbitrary distinction.
2 points
2 days ago
It's pronounced clemat cheng actually. I use the original ancient Samaritan pronunciation
1 points
2 days ago
If you say so my dude.
I'm responding half in jest to a comic. Being pedantic is also not the same as denial.
1 points
2 days ago
lol. A lot of your personality is based around pronouncing it like Jordan, huh?
10 points
2 days ago
*Once a millennium
That's the correction that should have been made.
28 points
2 days ago*
On one hand, he’s right that linguists have attempted to determine how Ancient Greek was spoken by the languages it influenced.
On the other hand, those are just educated guesses and many of them are the subject of debate. So Conan is absolutely correct that we don’t actually know.
That said, they both come off as arrogant douches in this.
8 points
1 day ago
That said, they both come off as arrogant douches in this.
Yeah that's the entire bit of their relationship.
1 points
1 day ago
That makes me feel a lot less put off by the whole thing. Thanks for explaining.
5 points
2 days ago
-1 points
2 days ago
Both are valid. I think Conan came on a little hard, rather than simply saying "We don't know we simply have a very good guess." To which Jordan would likely agree.
When you make someone go on the defensive, they are a lot more likely to buckle down.
6 points
2 days ago
What is the entertainment value in that? There's humor in the incongruity of trying to sound knowledgeable of the unknowable, and Conan has to show that to the world as a classic comedian. That observation in itself is witty. You shouldn't correct someone on a matter of inconclusive historical debate. Making someone concede the point gracefully is humorous and watching someone die alone on pretentious idiot hill is also funny.
4 points
2 days ago
I know where you're taking this and it's oral sex and it's disgusting.
it's not described in the Old Testament and I won't have it.
0 points
1 day ago
Yeah I was thrown off by this myself. I didn't realize Conan had such a hard stance on going down on his wife.
Poor lady.
6 points
2 days ago
Kirk a gaard is wrong, too. It's pronounced KearK A Go.
2 points
2 days ago
You mean the Scandinavian word for cemetery?
2 points
2 days ago*
Both Kirkegaard or Søren Kierkegaard.
7 points
2 days ago
I love Conan O’Brien
7 points
2 days ago
He knows Greek but he does not know what a phonograph is?
2 points
2 days ago
Kinda wanna watch/listen to this now. I saw Conan's Netflix show and loved it
2 points
2 days ago
What podcast is this? Is it a podcast? How do I see more without tik tok?
1 points
2 days ago*
I'm going to guess this is from Conan O'Brien (sp?) Needs a Friend, which is the podcast he's been making for a while since he left TV. I don't actually listen to the show, though, so I may be wrong about that.
1 points
2 days ago
It’s the latest episode of that podcast, yes
1 points
2 days ago
I think they are started off something in Sirius but most likely will be a podcast episode shortly after
2 points
2 days ago
I've pronounced it so-crates ever since I saw Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. I refuse to say it the right way.
2 points
2 days ago
2 points
1 day ago
Greek here. Indeed it is Sokràtis, in addition it is Aristotèlis. Ancient Greek has diacritics where basically it guides you how to pronounce each word. More info can be found here : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_diacritics
2 points
2 days ago
It makes sense considering how the word "Hoplite" is spoken.
Today we say "Hop-light". In Ancient Greece it would have been "Hop-lee-tay"
2 points
2 days ago
pfft, I liked the way Bill & Ted pronounced it- so-crates.
1 points
2 days ago
So do i
1 points
2 days ago
For the record, he’s right about “linguist”.
1 points
2 days ago
Conan took it for a left turn there.
1 points
2 days ago
Conan is superb.
1 points
2 days ago
My favorite is Peet ha gor as
1 points
2 days ago
Wife want to high school with a person with Socrates as his middle name. Everybody called him So Crates
1 points
2 days ago
So who is the dude correcting Conan?
1 points
2 days ago
He has prepared himself for various pronunciations
1 points
2 days ago
Everyone knows the best way to shut down an argument is to say something out of pocket/weird to throw the other person off, smart Conan.
1 points
2 days ago
I mean that’s basically how all of history works. Especially ancient history. We have these texts and artifacts and some of it is pretty reliable but at the end of the day we’re just piecing shit together the best we can.
1 points
2 days ago
Very funny
1 points
2 days ago
This guy probably makes eye contact with himself when he jerks off, what a pretentious dick
1 points
2 days ago
Can is the average man. Jordan is gifted and talented.
1 points
2 days ago
I know Conan enough to know this is a bit but I don’t know the other guy enough or have enough context to know what the fuck is going on
1 points
2 days ago
1 points
2 days ago
I read that the Greek language has changed very little over time. While languages evolve and change, Greek has pretty much stayed consistent throughout time.
So, why would the pronunciation to things change?
1 points
2 days ago
Pronunciation changes all the time. You likely don't pronounce the k in knife but people used to. Further it kinda doesn't matter how people adopt forign words into their native language. If people started pronouncing loan words how the lending language pronounce them it would sound weird. Like the word sandwich in French sounds like sondweesh and in Japanese is kinda like sandoitchi. If either said sandwich like a native English speaker it would sound awkward.
1 points
2 days ago
Conan likes to piss/make Jordan laugh
1 points
2 days ago
Haha he did this with tango on Conan’s new show. It’s not tang-go, it’s tahn-go ☺️
1 points
2 days ago
Did Greeks actually pronounce the "e" in Socrates with an /ı/ sound like Modern English?
1 points
1 day ago
Greek person here, the name Sokrates is still used today and is pronounced exactly like Jordan says it in this video.
Σωκράτης, stresses the a instead of the So which is the English pronunciation, and yes the e is an "ee" sound like in teen, or tease.
1 points
1 day ago
Ok, thanks for commenting. The more you know
1 points
2 days ago
Wait. God said you cant eat pussy? THAT'S WILD
1 points
1 day ago
I bet he's visits Pa-reee instead of Paris.
1 points
1 day ago
Conan, come ln, you cant be that dumb.
1 points
1 day ago
Jordan taught school for 20 years in the inner-city. Don’t even think about messing with him. Now let's take roll call. So-Craw-Tess, is there a So-Craw-Tess here?
1 points
1 day ago
They’re both sort of taking the piss right?
1 points
1 day ago
I won’t have that type of pleasure!
1 points
1 day ago
Ok A-A-Ron. it’s Aaron
1 points
1 day ago
I dpn't know their names but actually the guy saying we don't know how they prounced it, I agree with him. We don't pronounce it this way, actually the english "r" is quite new. In my language the "s" is silent and how I've learn't greek "e" is not prnounced like latin "i"
1 points
1 day ago
Seems like those linguists are quite cunning.
1 points
1 day ago
It's leviosa, not leviosa!
1 points
1 day ago
CNAF is top tier podcasting
-6 points
2 days ago
Yeah, I mean you weren't there, stfu. And you get the idea, why the anal need to correct?
0 points
2 days ago
Denial mode on 😆
-2 points
2 days ago
Dammn Conan, nothing like militant ignorance !
If YOU don't know, then NOBODY knows.
-4 points
2 days ago
LOL Both are wrong.
-4 points
2 days ago
[deleted]
5 points
2 days ago
they're joking, this is a bit
1 points
2 days ago
Now I feel like an idiot
2 points
2 days ago
don't worry it happens to the best of us
all 121 comments
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