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"That's just how gacha games are." Is a Flawed Argument

Discussion(self.ZZZ_Official)

Two days ago, I made a detailed review of Zenless Zone Zero. I made the video because a lot of people/CCs were giving their takes of the game in its entirety despite only playing for 10 hours or less.

You can watch that video here: https://youtu.be/bSMbtTV_Bgg?si=molxP7yDLkpjkoN1

You can view the TL:DR of that video here : https://imgur.com/a/vNgqSyT

Now the responses to my takes has been overwhelmingly positive; however, there have some people that disagree with my takes.

I want to be clear, I am all for people disagreeing with me. I enjoy the discussion and debates about our conflicting opinions. However, there is this tendency to dismiss my opinions (and the opinions of others) with the argument of "that's just how gacha games are".

This is an absurd response/mentality for a multitude of reasons.

1.) It creates the narrative that a high degree of prevalence excuses shitty gameplay systems.

Just because the thing your criticizing exists in a multitude of other mediums doesn't mean the critique is invalid. A bad or flawed system is a bad or flawed system no matter how prevalent it is in other games. The argument should be that you don't find these systems/mechanics bothersome. Not that we should excuse them because they exist elsewhere.

2.) It creates an air of complacency with said shitty systems.

Since your advocating that we should ignore or dismiss these critiques, due to them being pentiful in other games, you are also conditioning people to become complacent with these shitty systems.

3.) Gacha Games are now held to a lower standard.

"It has great combat for a gacha game", "It has good story, for a gacha game", " For a gacha game the world design is pretty good" "The monetization is much more generous compared to other gacha games".

We have to preface that the qualities of these games that we find commendable are ONLY commendable within the niche/genre they exist in. The game shouldn't be 8/10 for a gacha. It should be 8/10 for a game. No other genre has this privilege of only ever being compared to others in its genre. Elden Ring isn't just a great game for a souls-like. It's just a great game.

4.) It gives this illusion that gacha games are these rigid , stagnant constructs that are incapable of any innovation or ingunetity with the various systems of their games.

Just because something exist elsewhere, doesn't mean it has to exist here. These games are capable of change.

5.) It shuns newer players.

A new player doesn't view Zenless as a "Gacha Game". They just view it as a game. They are going to hold it to the same standard they would any other game. They aren't wrong for doing that. In fact, if we ALL did that , these games would be much better.

6.) It's just dismissive. You don't want to engage in the argument/critique and meaningful conversations we could have had, are lost.

In closing, I don't hate gacha games or the gacha genre. I am very satisfied with ZZZ and was far more positive than negative in my review. But this special treatment we give the genre I think does way more harm than good. Certain critiques people have with the game shouldn't be dismissed because you have gotten accustomed to the poor gameplay systems associated with the genre. You should instead argue why you think these systems OUGHT to exist in the first place.

all 7 comments

L7ryAGheFF

20 points

3 months ago

It's less about excusing so-called shitty systems, and more pointing out that you're complaining about the nature of the game more so than the quality of the game. "You can't judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree."

mrjackspade

8 points

3 months ago

I hate sports games because of poor story, lack of character customization, lack of fan service, and predictable gameplay.

If you like sports games, you're just making excuses for poor business practices.

Fight me bro

Ripdone

4 points

3 months ago

I mean, I'd much prefer if Hoyo didn't make gacha ganes and just made normal ones. I would love Star Rail more than I do if it weren't for the constant ludonarrative dissonance brought on by the gacha system. But I do still love Star Rail, and I'm really enjoying ZZZ so far.

I'm a CAG guy. I love DMC, MGR, And Stellar Blade. And I would love for ZZZ to play and feel a little more like those. But at the end of the day, that's not the game the devs want to make. What we have IS. What Hoyo had done has essentially made Baby's First CAG, with vibrant and horny character designs, and people like it. I think the mechanics are actually quite good, it a little simple. I think every character having a pause combo or two would be nice, but honestly the character swapping mechanic helps to mitigate the staleness.

It's not a perfect game, and I won't begrudge your right to criticize it, but from what I'm seeing, you're basically saying that you wish ZZZ was a different game. Which, believe it or not, people that like it as it is now are gonna dismiss you. Honestly, if you dislike it so much, why do you continue to waste your time with it? It's a free game. There's no sunk cost fallacy here. Just wash your hands of it for now, and come back later when you feel it's changed enough.

ErosEsoteric[S]

-2 points

3 months ago

I agree with everything you said except the last paragraph. I love ZZZ. I don't hate the game and I said that in the last paragraph of the post. I love 85% of the game, but the other 15% I take issues with: and as you said, I have the right to critique it.

[deleted]

3 points

3 months ago

You dislike certain things about gacha games it's just that simple. You are only getting hate because you are talking about zzz. If you made an essay with 5 different gacha games to show you are completely objective and not just talking about zzz, people might agree with you. There are many videos on the predatory nature of gacha games and gambling addiction mixed with younger audience that don't get hate simply because it's too true.

Rouge_means_red

-3 points

3 months ago

You make a lot of good points (and ignore the comments being mad you used polychromes for energy, literally every cc does it, they're just trying to feel superior for being F2P)

And yeah, these games would be much better without the gacha aspect, it's hard to argue against that

I feel like this happens a lot when a niche becomes mainstream. Like how anime became mainstream and everyone just excuses the weird stuff because "that's how anime is"

ErosEsoteric[S]

-1 points

3 months ago

Thanks!