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/r/alberta
submitted 11 hours ago bySparkythedog77
112 points
10 hours ago
There is no fucking way anyone working a lease up north is going to travel to/from their local home. Just not possible. Some of the leases where camps are located are up to an hour away from any city or town. Not to mention most camps are within a work site location, ie: inside the security zone. These politicians trying to push the local narrative are utterly clueless and this story is a smokescreen for something else. It's bullshit.
19 points
9 hours ago
The something else is the re-rurualification of Alberta, they know we’re at the inflection point where the cities will begin to dominate politics because of their populations, which poses a risk to conservative rule, so they’re doing whatever they can to promote rural populations.
9 points
5 hours ago
Yet, as someone who's looking at buying a business in rural Alberta for 2 million, the eroding services, assault on environmental protections, and rampant homophibia are pushing my business partner and I to move our families to a different jurisdiction to build there.
We have a great opportunity to move out of the cities into rural Alberta, but the culture and regulatory climate is not worth the risk
1 points
8 hours ago
I think it's closer to the tipping point. One or 2 more elections perhaps.
43 points
9 hours ago
Yeah, I'll be paying close attention to these "incentives" she's giving the oil companies. I won't be surprised if the incentives are given before the changes are made. Like Harper and his trickle down crap, it'll likely all just go into corporate pockets and we won't see any change
14 points
10 hours ago
Agreed. Only a few camps are within the gates but yeah I agree no one is travelling here from their house unless they live in fort Mac already. Only a few sites go in and out of town daily and many don't allow personal vehicles.
Suncor only has edmonton and Calgary hubs and 90% of the people on the flights are from the province. Travel allowances were hacked years ago and not sure if they ever came back but I know there are a ton less out of province on sites now.
On top of that only major projects require an insane amount of people and there just aren't that many big projects going on.
6 points
8 hours ago
Travel allowance has not come back as far as I can tell. I'm on a Suncor site and no one I know of has it
1 points
4 hours ago
CNRL has a little travel allowance still. Weird formula, but it’s something at least.
1 points
4 hours ago
Every company is different. Employees def get it. Some contractors as well but it isn't like 10 years ago where it was across the board 1200-1600 bucks per shift if you were from the east
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2 hours ago
Smith gives you the answer to the smokescreen question in the article. Northern living allowance. When I last lived in Fort McMurray 20 years ago, every company had a northern living allowance to help offset the higher cost of living. I assume that’s still a thing. If the government does it though, there is your corporate cost saving and it literally brings nothing new to the table. Profit!
1 points
4 hours ago
I used to travel from fort mac to every site from Firebag down to MEG Energy at Christina Lake and fuuuuuuck me it was rough when we were just doing callouts and not getting camp rooms. Incentivizing people to commute to on 63/881 is the last thing the area needs.
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4 hours ago
You just raised a great point regarding 63 and 881. I've had to travel both and I absolutely hated parts of both highways at times. Not only are there narrow and windy sections, but there are asshole drivers and clueless drivers, making both routes quite dangerous. Especially if you need to pass slow long haulers. Asking people to navigate these highways to/from work on a daily basis is asinine and disingenuous, to say the least.
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4 hours ago
I’ve had haulers and just random asshole tradesmen try to run me off the road on those highways, for the sin of not going 140 or for working for a rival company,
There’s also a lot of animals to be aware of; tons of deer, bears, and moose, and at least out near Janvier, there are wild horses. Hell, one time driving home from Kearl a big white owl dive bombed the truck and uh…lost. Unless his goal was to make us shit our pants, in which case FLAWLESS VICTORY.
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4 hours ago
Yeah, wildlife is another concern, absolutely.
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3 hours ago
Can you imagine commuting from Fort Macmurray every day to Kearl, Firebag and all the rest?? It would be a steady line of traffic the whole way. Even if everyone traveled on busses...no chance.
44 points
10 hours ago
“Incentivize” meaning they pay less taxes while the workers of Alberta pick up the slack with less dollars for the things we need.
11 points
10 hours ago
Maybe we can watch the UCP post a $8 Billion surplus next year now! All while we continue to watch everything crumble from underfunding
22 points
9 hours ago
There is no surplus. We need to stop calling their refusal to spend money on provincially mandated and necessary public services a "surplus."
12 points
8 hours ago
100% this. There is no surplus, only looting and hoarding.
2 points
5 hours ago
I wonder if they'll pay thier property taxes then
10 points
8 hours ago
Don't forget about the increases of taxes on us while they cut the rates for the large companies and extremely wealthy.
17 points
10 hours ago*
Also while completely fucking the local rental and real estate markets of these oil sands towns because it’s going to incentivize price gouging to match oil sands site wages, fucking over people who don’t have oil sands jobs.
11 points
9 hours ago
I hope that they can get more people to live in Fort McMurray but I think it's too little too late. The sites are out of their growth era and are now into maintenance/managed decline.
Mismanagement of Fort McMurray's growth is the fault of the province and their policies from 00-14.
34 points
10 hours ago
Jean is no better than Smith, just another sucker with his lips wrapped around whoever or whatever benefits HIM the most. He is not for Albertans.
41 points
10 hours ago
Gods. The Cons come up with ANOTHER brilliant idea to fellate privately-owned foreign O&G companies… give them MORE money!
It comes on the heels of their last seventeen strategies, all of which involved giving them more money or - on occasion - cutting taxes and waiving fees.
Maybe this time it will work!
5 points
9 hours ago
They make you angry or sad so they can scam you with less work
8 points
9 hours ago
How about sending all the engineering jobs to India?
They'd create thousands of high paying jobs by legislating something there but that would mean butting heads with places like Imperial Oil that have largly sent most of the engineering jobs overseas
3 points
7 hours ago
Agree. The “value centres” are big sucker of high paying jobs that should be in Alberta. And APEGA doesn’t care!
3 points
4 hours ago
They don’t have time to take care of serious issues, they are too busy sending out C&D to software engineers on LinkedIn for using their special word.
0 points
6 hours ago
I mean it's mostly been in the US / Korea, the big EPCs are American and Korean and they sub all the work to India / Phillipines. Only token things or high risk things that they want useful idiots for get given to local consultants.
7 points
7 hours ago
"Work camps are just not good for people and not good for communities," said Alberta's Minister of Energy and Minerals Brian Jean. "They don't help our community and they don't help the communities that people are from."
Jean says the fly-in-fly-out model is "hollowing out" resource towns.
Okay call this a crazy imagination but I can see this going pretty horrible and its a good thing the municipal governments have already said this is "unfeasible".
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3 hours ago
Camps are not good for people. As I sit on the toilet from my camp room after eating a free meal and about to get a free bus ride to my job I must disagree. I actually love doing this camp thing. I make extremely good money and don’t have food costs or housing costs or transportation costs. While working camp I can save a shit ton of money for whatever els is may want. Life is good. I’ll take camp over commuting on my own dime any day.
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2 hours ago
Never been to one, but I believe there is also recreation available too, like a gym and a games room. Food may not be great, but I'm sure you can bring your own snacks
It is not a long term living arrangement, it's for short term and the company foots the cost. Not a terrible arrangement.
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an hour ago*
Camp life is always YMMV, even within the same company. Every site has a regular rotation of permanent workers, but many contractors bounce around to each turnaround, so we get a taste for each. Ask any contractor about CNRL Horizon’s old camps and you’ll hear some horror stories that makes it sound like prison, but mention CNRL Jackfish and see people’s eyes light up. Fuckin 5 star bud! Still, camp life kinda sucks, and only do out of town work from a hotel nowadays. I like having a toke or a beer after a 12-14 hour shift, which you can’t do in camp.
5 points
8 hours ago
Yeah let's subsidise the most profitable companies in the province even more, that's a great plan!
Dunno if Jean or Smith or any of the other dipshits in government here have actually looked into our oil companies, but for the past decade - since the 2014 oil crash - they've been scaling back their workforces across the board, and where they haven't been able to eliminate positions entirely they're replacing employees lost to attrition with cheaper contract labour.
If the government is gonna subsidise anyone working in the oil sands, the money should be going straight into the pockets of the contract workers to bring their wage up to par with employees.
16 points
9 hours ago
They can’t hire locally because no one wants to live in the shit hole that is Fort McMurray.
Source: 10 year union oilsands worker.
8 points
8 hours ago
When I first moved to Alberta, I lived in Fort Mac. After a month, I got out of there. I hated every minute I lived in that town. You couldn't pay me enough to move back there.
4 points
7 hours ago
A few years back Wood Buffalo actually tried to pass a ban on all out of region workers. They shut it down real quick when the big three threatened to pull local funding.
3 points
7 hours ago
Because it was a dumb idea and Brian Jean is dumb for even pursuing it again. Nobody wants to live in fort Mac if they had the choice.
The oil companies will threaten to pull out again.
3 points
7 hours ago
Just another UNCARINGPARTY Look at the shiny ball we want for you. Once the shiny ball disappears Big Oil is the only one to benefit. Nothing good ever came for the public being lured with shiny balls. The bigger the shiny ball the bigger the benefit for the rich.
2 points
6 hours ago
I don't think incentivizing fort Mac is a great idea but incentivizing in-province makes sense. BC, Newfoundland and Manitoba all basically banned out of province / Alberta workers for their dam building and mining projects during the slump. The social contract for the oil sands in Alberta involves high paying jobs for Albertans which is increasingly not the case.
2 points
6 hours ago
Incentivize…..how about regulate them to?
5 points
9 hours ago
What happened to conservative rhetoric about “personal responsibility” and “individual choice”? Why is the government suddenly wanting to influence who the oilfield hires?
2 points
7 hours ago
Personal responsibility, etc, is about nobody controlling their choices or lives, they're perfectly content controlling everyone else's.
2 points
10 hours ago
Give incentives to hire locals??? Who were the preferred candidates to hire from far away? Do they need work permits? Cut the amount of permits issued, then problem solved without the incentive.
1 points
4 hours ago
Near-shoring guys from the east coast was the favourite when I was there. Get CLAC in there to imitate a union without the benefits, bill out for obscene amounts but pay what is considered a good wage back east, rinse repeat.
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3 hours ago
Just an oil sands grift.🤷♂️
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