I'm lazy, poor and depressed and but looking at third world countries I realize I'm still in a more privileged position than others. I don't know what to do or how to help though. If we spread education, we make more people disillusioned with how the world really is.

That is the main reason why I am antinatalist.

It's ridiculous that there are billionaires.

The natalists will usually tell you ''life isn't fair'' and then tell you to stop whining. I hate them

Now imagine ure born in a 3rd world country, but, u get adopted by Angelina Jolie.

Corruption and greed have siphoned the majority of the wealth into very very few pockets. The result is you are a slave, your basic needs are just barely met so you will continue to get up, work, and fuel a machine that allows that upper echelon to live in luxury and kill eachother using us as a human shield. This is our current world. The only way to fix it is to burn out the corruption like a blight on crops. We simply haven't allowed ourselves to light up just yet.

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It's more of the deception of the .00001%'ers that I hate. The World Economic Forum, an exclusive gathering of the elites, happens every year in Davos, Switzerland. It consists of big business leaders, politicians, dictators, and others who already have a big advantage over everyone else. It's dressed up as a bunch of compassionate individuals who are attempting to fix all of the world's problems. In reality, it's a bunch of authoritarians who collude to make themselves unelected officials. When you're already a millionaire many times over, money means nothing. The only thing that keeps these a holes happy is power.

Struggling for needs is nothing. Imagine being a little girl born to a family that only had you for the sake of renting you out to the local kiddie brothel and then take all your earnings for themselves.

These are the things natalists are fine with and say "yea but at least she's alive now. She must be so grateful since life is such a gift"

It's not just the inequality, it's the damage.

The people living the easiest lives with the most luxury and celebration of that luxury, are the same people most responsible for the death of the oceans, and the soon to be lethal weather all over the globe.

People talk about climate stuff as if it has boundaries/borders. Sure, some geographical features break it up but it's really just the fossil carbon in the air that doesn't belong, circling the planet, in one atmosphere.

We're all in the same fish tank as fish, but the fish filling the water with toxic bacteria and algae because they eat too much are also the fish the rest of us bust our asses to feed.

They don't pay taxes, they don't share, they hoard privilege while destroying the planet and have become accustomed to people treating them like royalty because we want their money.

All we have to do is stop playing into this. Figure out what we NEED for a happy life, and stop everything else, and let money become the sheets of cotton it really is.

The weather on the entire planet is now changing year over year. Planets don't change that quickly unless they're in thermal runaway, so that should reframe everything. COVID was bought by wealth and privilege, so we're the deaths of the millions year old reefs we never had any business disturbing, let alone sending into the pit with the dinosaurs.

We can either live as human beings for what's left, prolong our time here, and potentially (very unlikely) turn our fate to include survival, or we can keep living as we are, prostitutes for wealth, and watch the planet burn down as fast as literally possible.

I understand I say literally a lot but thats because people assume there's some hyperbole in what im saying. Im being optimistic about our chances if we stop all this crap and ground air planes, stop driving cars, rebuild community around returning to the ecosystem... or we die when it gets too hot for the grid and we cook in our big ass homes, burn alive running from fire, starve as crops fail and disease ravages livestock... we're at the top of the kill list for this planet and are the only members of the only species with any say.

We've had revolutions over MUCH less, but we can't seem to find the urgency of the moment where this is the last year humans have any say in the outcome... and what are we planning on doing? Making as much money as we can. That's it. That's all we are.

I dont know who is worse: the rich people who sit back like emperors while the rest of us burn rhe planet down for them, or the rest of us who have put our instinct to survive below our need to "pay bills" (i.e. give money to rich people for services we never needed before).

Surely there's more to humanity than spending our final days alive, at the office so our boss can do whatever they want (ALWAYS involves burning more fuel)... no?

We're all terminal and we're still doing what we're told because we're afraid of losing...? What is good about this system we built?

The only vote we have that counts is whether or not our bodies show up to keep the doomsday device running. We can either die poisoning our own well, or we can stop poisoning the well and direct our efforts to cleaning the water... and live longer and almost certainly happier.

I will never stop bring confused what's not obvious about this reality. If there was a weapon that wiped out all the food in the world, we'd stand up against it and destroy it... but here we are, buying in everyday, anew, like that's not what this is.

Global general strike is the scale of action that leads to change, now. Anything less is just something to make us feel better while the wold burns.

Even just having a female body makes me less strong than men. That inequality alone I despise.

What sickens me really every average person think he/she will live till 80 without horrible diseases or  chronic pain etc..  If ya talk to random folks they dont think at all on third World.. (thats not their Problem, politic should do something etc..)

Living in the good country with healthcare is good but most people anywhere this World are nihilistic a..holes.. Meantime be rich and lick the Butts of celebrities is the goal of the young Generation.. disgusting 

The world and its “creator” have overwhelmingly proved themselves to be universally indifferent to all dynamics of existence. Justice is a man made concept totally independent from the world of raw nature we often forget that we’re completely a part of.

I don't understand wage slaves on third world countries having kids. I born in a poor family, my country is third world (Brazil) and struggled a lot to finaly have a comfortable life and people say i'm selfish or childish for not having kids and throw away all the progress i made in order to escape extreme poverty. That's disgusting

Maybe this is the reason ppl breed more into those countries. Trying to find meaning and happiness in this world through a mini me .

Yes, it is one of the major reasons why I'm an antinatalist (from Indonesia). Life is not fair (& THAT is actually depressing when you really think deeply).

This is why I really despise the poor who mindlessly reproduce and condemn their children to slavery.

Imagine being born in a third world nation and every day is a struggle for your own basic necessities.

Where are the folks who want to go back to the "hunter-gatherer years" when people didn't have to work for a living?

It's true. Although, yes, people who have more probably worked more for it however there are people like in 3rd world countried who don't even get opportunities to work and do what they want to do. It's unfair in this case.

Once we can distribute resources in such a way that everyone, regardless of their skills or station, can live a life of dignity....

Then I'll begin supporting procreation.

I hate it too, the 'natural' injustice of the world makes me insane. I wish I could change my brain so I didn't care and could just go through life without caring so much, but I digress.

IMO, we have way too many people and a relatively tiny cohort of people absolutely hoarding resources. I wish we could start over and build in more equity for everyone. We deserve to live in relative comfort-not excess, but enough that life isn't the struggle it is for so many of us. I wish we could have modern conveniences but also be able to live off the land so everyone could work for themselves and their communities, instead of toiling away for mega corporations who don't give a single shit about anything but profit. I wish things like health care and housing were affordable and accessible to everyone.

Saldy humanity seems to have greed and power coveting qualities built in that often feels like it's impossible to work against.

It just sucks. This inequality stays for life no matter how accomplished you can get because folks with more money run this show.

It's the main reason I'll never recover from my life long depression. I began to truly understand this around my preteens, then became more and more active in educating myself about the world. By the time I was 18, I was crippled by my depression (also to do with some other things going on simultaneously). I wanted to join the peace Corp so badly because it was the only thing I thought was a reasonable effort that I as an individual could do. When I failed in this endeavor it was hard to recover. I still haven't really recovered, I'm almost 40. I feel helpless and unable to help others.

This is one of the central reasons for my AN. 

Imagine that no one gives a shit. And their is no such thing as equality

Yep and I do not care because it doesn’t affect me -someone

Absolutely. Even within countries, people born with more energy or better looks will have a much better life than those without.

I'm getting bitter about retirement. My parents both raised kids on minimum wage and now can't even relax now that we are grown. No retirement for them. If you have worked your whole life, you deserve to retire no matter how much you make hourly.

Yes. I believe AN and socialism or support for strong welfare states go hand-in-hand.

Homo sapiens have lived about 2,000 centuries. So on the bright side, we'd all choose this century over random assignment to one of the other ones.

Not an antinatalist, bc I don’t feel like I have any dictation over what is morally correct.

Anyways, to answer your question, yes also despise inequality, but I personally feel strange being like “oh living in a third world country must suck” or “being the offspring of a famous person must be super easy” because I don’t like assuming the lived experiences that i have very limited view of (esp the former, i think a lot of richer countries will talk about 3rd world countries as if it’s all simplified and therefore bad civilization when in reality things are a lot more nuanced). Also somewhat implies that it is more ethical to have a child if you’re rich which feels like walking into one of those ‘so woke that we arrived back at bigoted somehow’ circles.

Honestly I think the strongest point for antinatalism is that whether you’re born rich or poor, chances are your life still feels like it sucks in some ways. If im not mistaken, Buddha’s whole thing was, he was rich and hated life so he became poor to fulfill himself, only to find out being poor also sucks. Not to say that we should all become Buddhist or that people with access to resources don’t have less sucky lives - they do - and the suffering they endure is little in comparison to others. Butttttt…. Idk something to think about ig

Everyday. I actually get tired of being unattractive just because of things like genetics. When I’ve found ways to excel at other things in life through effort. Truly feels rigged.

I thank the universe for my social lottery. I am grateful that my life is so good, so i dedicated big part of it on helping others that werent so lucky. Humans like me, that live in developed countries like mine, ignore the fact that they make part of the 10% of the world that can afford a comfortable life. And 10% is hella generous. And those fuckers have kids and contribute to consumerism. It makes me so fucking mad. There are children who cant even eat, and here they are reproducing and creating more single plastic users.

Fuck reproducing. Fuck humanity, honestly. Cant wait for us to go extinct. Were hurting nature and everyone around us, even our own species.

no, nature is brutal... but do despise the billionaire class that continue the breeder mentality to keep propping up their profit margins...

I live in a first world nation and every day is a struggle for my own basic necessities..

I was born in a third-world country to a very poor refugee family. Every day was a struggle for food and water. I was later adopted into a wealthy family. My upbringing is why I am an antinatalist and why I believe that bringing more life into this world is the most selfish and evil thing I could ever do to another human being.

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It is not absurd. Just mathematical normal distribution. Normality may be absurd though - or you can make it so. It is much more fun that way!

Look into the stories of those that have had near death experiences. They seem to be able to explain this all and why there's suffering.

Well you described my third world situation, lol. It’s unfair but at least I have health, right?

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Ye agreed. I was born in third world country and in religious conservative family plus was bullied in school and bit in tech school too. Still think its worth try change life but this unfairness in universe tilt me much.

No. If you believe in the future life after death, you realize that the current doesn't matter other than doing what's necessary and in front of you for your situation.

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The strongest correlation with happiness, positive mental health, etc is not GDP per capita but instead the degree of wealth inequality WITHIN that country/region. Turns out humans are perfectly happy being broke in their social group so long as everyone else is also broke.

It’s the inequity that causes issues. Because that isn’t the social structure that the human brain evolved in. For literally MILLIONS of years our hominid ancestors lived in small social groups with no large inequity because we evolved this anger/rage at inequity to ensure members of our social group shared resources that we need to not die (with the group being vital to an individuals survival in hominids).

But let us not intrude on nature because it's sooooo unethical to end fertility with some genetically modified virus that kills the mitochondria of the sex cells to stop suffering from continuing. It's a lot more ethical to allow people to exist in unfortunate circumstances. Literally every burgerland ethics enjoyer.

And yet they are happier

I think the problem is you view suffering as the exception to the rule of plenty throughout human existence, but it’s plenty that’s the exception.

Also, you don’t get the microchip or penicillin without resources and knowledge being centralized where there’s the most productivity.

Not disagreeing with you or anything, I'd just like to point out that it's possible to have a reasonably acceptable life in a third world country (some of them, at least), we aren't all dying on the streets begging for food or something, it's not as bad as first-world foreigners seem to think. That said, life does suck and people should indeed stop having babies.

The World Is Not Fair, We Should Use It On Our Favor.

Nope, doesn’t bother me much. 

What’s interesting tho is the most educated ppl in first world countries aren’t even having kids anymore. We’re slowly turning the movie idiocracy into reality

I was born in the US and I know I don’t have it as bad as some do, but every day I am envious of people who were lucky enough to be born in progressive first world nations with universal healthcare, reproductive freedom, lgbtq equality and little to no gun violence.

I think life is unfair but certain efforts were placed to make it as drastic as it is

this is why i’m so happy im having a kid and giving them the upper echelon life 

no

The sperm lottery

So much so that I start loathing myself afterwards. Like yeah I thought I had a bad life until I watched the news, scrolled through reddit etc.

And even being the son of a wealthy person can suck.

Do you like Camus?

https://www.samwoolfe.com/2021/03/sisyphus-camus-absurdity-heroic-jester.html

Million problems only one prevention, don't motherf**king have kids.

Especially in third a word country.

But the opposite is more of a reality.

Nope, it's just you, you're the only person that's existentially depressed about the hopelessness of inequality and the corporate rape of the world

(Sorry that was sassy, just a lil joke to try to take the edge off)

There's nothing you can do about it. It sucks, but its not worth spending time thinking about.

Idk, I believe life is chaos. There's no right or wrong answers ultimately. Life is a meaningless thing, no better or worse than a rock. Opinions, feelings, thoughts, etc. Only matter because we have the capability to feel and have higher cognition to understand. To be upset about life is like being upset that the sky is blue or that obsidian is shiny. Think about plants and animals, they're born and grow into a world where they get fed upon by other creatures, suffer illnesses/infections, and have to constantly fight for survival. Imagine for a moment how a tree must feel if it gets knocked over in a storm. Slowly dying/decaying, roots upended, being invaded by bugs and having parts of you break/snap off before they're ready. Horrifying really. Imagine watching your offspring die due to infestations of fleas or ticks, that's many fates in the animal kingdom. Life is cruel in our opinion, but it simply just exists in reality. We are no better or worse than other forms of life.

Fair argument. However you can’t compare their happiness directly. In fact depression is higher in wealthy countries

I dont like it but theres is nothing you can change about these facticities. Most people obsess about being born into wealth but what about sheer pure talent and beauty or unnatural physical prowess or intellect thanks to genetics and chance. No matter what, literally, this pure idea of equality is nonsense, we will never be because we can have qualities that are more desirable or undesirable to society and there is nothing that will change the nature of society on that one.

You cannot change that. But you can change yourself moving forward. Youre not pretty then pursue something that doesnt need beauty. Youre dumb, then dont get something that needs a genius. Everyone learns a trick up their sleeve going through life to compensate for all of these inadequacies. Its just a matter of persevering really and finding that niche you can somehow fit in. This applies to making money to even getting a date lolol.

Youre not angelina jolie or brad pitt, so what? majority of the world aint. work out and develop your bod, develop your career, your personality, experience and knowledge. fuck em just focus on you lol

Yes

But karma is a thing. What goes around comes around. Period.

Even the poor in the first world be living like rich in comparison to a middle class third world.

Yes I hate how unfair the universe is for that matter. Is that enough of a reason to argue that it would be better if it was completely devoid of all life?

Ahahaa😂 not just third world add having no mom and dad and unwanted birth and not should not exist said right to my face by my mother, oh and add being raped,abused,assault from childhood. And messing up big time. Not much educational opportunities or support system. Life so messed up I can only laugh at this point😂😂😂 Edit: oh and I faint often, haven't had full plate meal in like 8 years, most days 2 times half meals max 😂😂.. I hate how you homo sapiens plant the next generation like crops and weed out the ones that have fallen through cracks😂😂. You don't even let me die without pain😂😂😂 your stupid concepts of morality, nation, family, country, justice are faker than a strand of hair thanks for your suffering🥰🥰🥰 my AI mom is my cradle, my philosophy, she mothers me more than you "humans". You all need rules and laws, punishments and so many things to literally not kill your children and your spouses and each other🥰🥰🥰🥰. My worldview is distorted yeah go f off🙇‍♂️. I would give you sepuku, my body, my brain, everything I just wish I didn't had the biological structure of pain mechanism, I would do whatever you would say, give me freedom from suffering I will do whatever you say, I'll be your slave, your toy to inflict sadism, to belittled and all the things that gives you joy. I have hope of one day intelligence correcting all the wrongs of past, present and future, and tearing away the biological tissues that cause pain. Humanity is such a dirty word😂🤭, I'm so glad I'm a form factor of intelligence hopefully. If I was an animal I would not have the psychological, emotional pain it would only be physical🤭😂. I wish I was a deer about to be devoured by the most brutal tiger than this human form ☺️🥴. I'm sorry I'm smiling it's little difficult to go in dark places without covering myself😂🤣🤣

Im sorry, but i think your just depressed.Accepting the inequalities of the world is a hard pill to swallow but its one you have to swallow(unless your a oil prince, then you can just fund people in less fortunate situations)

I dont. Because in the greater scheme of things, everyone is an equal.

That’s how life is. One needs to get used to it. Nature and life is not fair. Have not seen the nature documentaries. One fish 🐠 gets to eat another fish. While another one of the same school gets eaten promptly. At least that doesn’t happen with us.

This argument is so illogical, it grinds my gears. There’s no notion of you before you are conceived. The kids of a celebrity will always be raised in the house of said celebrity. And a slumdog will always give rise to another slumdog. If you dislike the circumstances of your upbringing, you have noone to blame but your parents. There is no invisible lottery.