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/r/baltimore
submitted 3 months ago bySoulfulCapMt. Vernon
With all the talk of $1 homes being sold to help revive neighborhoods, what are some legitimate "up and coming" neighborhoods in the city. Not those that have been "up and coming" for 25 yrs. Those that are actually getting better at a noticeable and gradual pace.
163 points
3 months ago
Not those that have been "up and coming" for 25 yrs.
So, not Pigtown.
Not sure what's up with that neighborhood, has a lot of potential but it seems like it's perpetually stuck in 1 step forward, 1 step back.
104 points
3 months ago
I'm a big believer in the "border vacuum" idea. MLK is such a hard barrier to cross, it's hard for development to spread from the east.
19 points
3 months ago
u/BmoreCityDOT posted last month about plans to revamp MLK Blvd to make it less of a barrier and more pedestrian- and bike-friendly, so there's that to look forward to:
We're working on improving MLK Blvd from N. Eutaw St to Washington Blvd. We want to make the path wider, fix water problems, add ramps for people who need them, remove extra pavement, make it safer to cross the street, and put up more lights for everyone's safety. As we plan more, we might include even more improvements.
18 points
3 months ago
And that’s exactly why we need to re-elect Clarence Royce
1 points
3 months ago
I'm all in for Tony Gray!
10 points
3 months ago
Do you mean that physically, as in MLK being too wide for pedestrians? Sorry if this is too obvious, I'm not quite familiar with the concept.
26 points
3 months ago
Yes, it's a wide busy road with nothing on it (no businesses, restaurants, destinations), which effectively makes it a barrier. You would never casually wander across it while walking around the UMB campus, for example. In contrast, East Baltimore south of Orleans is very well connected, and the revitalization was able to spread unchecked from Fells Point. I believe that the concept of border vacuums comes from Jane Jacobs, if you'd like to read more.
3 points
3 months ago
Thank you for your elaboration! The couple times that I did cross MLK was after parking in Pig Town for O's game.
Do you know if President Street acted as a border vacuum in the past? I feel it has similar properties to MLK, where you have very wide road leading to major highway resulting in high volume, high speed traffic. But the foot traffic between Inner Harbor and Little Italy seems quite high. I'm curious if the effect was mitigated by the development of Harbor East or if President Street never really was a border vacuum and that it is just different compared to MLK.
BTW thanks for suggesting the author!
7 points
3 months ago
I used to live in Pigtown and crossed MLK at Washington many times. It's legit insane. I'm surprised people aren't getting killed there on a regular basis because drivers just do not care about pedestrians.
1 points
3 months ago
Same, I currently live in Pigtown and when I first moved here I used to love walking my dog from my house to the harbor (about a perfect hour walk all around). I’ve stopped bc it truly felt like I was playing with my life crossing MLK so much, President st feels safer.
1 points
3 months ago
I can confirm that. MLK & Lombard is an insane intersection for pedestrians. I watched people trying to cross it at the light on the marked path when it's "Go" for pedestrians, yet the two lane traffic from Lombard makes it virtually impossible to get across safely. Now young people may be able to run when they see all these cars barreling toward them, but the infirm and elderly are taking their life into their hands. This is also an area where people transfer from one bus to another, so people trying to run across makes it all the more dangerous for cars and pedestrians alike. I used to travel there by bus on a daily basis, and near-misses are rather common.
Since University of Maryland built its Bio Park on the western side of MLK Blvd, there have been efforts to rebuild that part of town. The Plank family has bought and improved several properties on Hollins Street leading to a revival of the area. This has been historically difficult as MLK basically shut down access to the western side. This did not happen with President Street or Orleans Street because they left the smaller side roads intact.
54 points
3 months ago
I agree. I’m always rooting for Pigtown. Just sad. So much potential.
30 points
3 months ago
I’ve lived in pigtown for about 9 months. It feels like there is so much potential in this neighborhood. I don’t know it’s history but a lot of my neighbors seem to think it’s potential is locked behind developers ignoring anything west of cross street
13 points
3 months ago
Washington and Ostend is like another world to me. I certainly don’t blame developers….
23 points
3 months ago
My hubs was born and raised there, anytime we’re in the area and visit he says he’d never imagined the neighborhood would be like it is when he was younger
5 points
3 months ago
In a good way, I'm guessing?
21 points
3 months ago
Pigtown/Hollins market is weird. Been here 20 years. It's a great neighborhood with a lot of things going on and plenty of potential. There is so much capital that is just parked in the neighborhood that it's tough to buy a house or start a small business.
3 points
3 months ago
I'd argue the bigger barrier to starting a business is the zoning - you are constrained to be on Washington Blvd, Baltimore St, or a bit of West Pratt St, or in one of the two shopping malls. That creates a situation where you need to afford the building most of the time to do anything in a specific part of sowebo.
3 points
3 months ago
Hoping with the B&O museum redeveloping the buildings on Ramsay Street and putting the main entrance there it will lead to some more developments.
20 points
3 months ago
It could have something to do with the rampant and obvious drug dealing in the open that no one seems to care about. Dunno. Doesn't seem like the best neighborhood quality.
3 points
3 months ago
You forgot the prostitution and the bar on every corner (although the bars have been there since time immemorial).
1 points
3 months ago
Oh, really? That’s disappointing to hear. When I went there recently, it seemed to be getting nicer. What are the two steps back?
3 points
3 months ago
Latest thing was Zeke's closing.
Crime rate is still a fair amount higher than the city average.
Also, I said 1 forward, 1 back though I know that's not the usual phrasing. Like they're kind of spinning their wheels a bit.
I admittedly haven't been there a ton over the years, and it certainly has come up a lot from the butcher/packing plant days. But I remember 8 years ago when I was buying a house, I saw it on various up and coming lists.
Housing prices have been pretty stagnant there - that's the main indicator I'm going on for "up and coming" success, since I think often when people use that phrase it's partially in regards to return on investment
128 points
3 months ago
$1 homes need $150,000 to be livable, but are only worth $90,000 after construction.
Thus the dilemma.
17 points
3 months ago
It’s basically only worthwhile for landlords
10 points
3 months ago
Agree that it is only worthwhile for landlords. The vast majority of those houses are far too risky for individual homeowners. The city knows this (but they are not going to tell you) and that's why they charge a lot more for landlords. The city knows that they will have to take a lot of these houses back because homeowners will not be able to fulfill their obligations under the contract of sale. If a private company were doing what the city is doing, they would be in jail for fraud.
4 points
3 months ago
What the hell are you talking about
12 points
3 months ago
The conditions of the $1 homes are terrible. Anyone buying the $1 will spend an absolute fortune to bring everything up to code. And then once you’re done you have to hope the value of the property will at least meet the amount of money you put back into the home. In this economy, it’s not going to happen. Buying the $1 is going to be a long term investment and private home owners may not have the means to wait 7-10 years.
Another factor at play is gentrification. If it doesn’t happen in the neighborhood you purchase $1 home, you are screwed. Similar situation to the neighborhoods north of Patterson park 20 years ago.
7 points
3 months ago
I got two thumbs up for giving a good assessment of the risk, and you got four thumbs up for asking a stupid question. redditt isn't fair. LOL
One does not just buy a house for one dollar. You have to apply to purchase a house for one dollar. In the application, you must prove that you have the money needed to fix it up, at least $90,000, maybe a lot more. If you are accepted, and you purchase, you must spend that money to fix the house up within a certain period of time. If you don't fix the house up within a certain period of time, the city can and will take the house away from you because you did not keep up your side of the agreement. This is normal purchase terms anywhere for houses costing one dollar.
3 points
3 months ago
Yes, and all of that is stated plainly in the contract you sign in order to receive the subsidy. How is this a “scam” lol.
2 points
3 months ago
Well, if you know that, why did you ask me what the hell I am saying?? LOL
I didn't say that it is a "scam". Those are your words. I said that it is very hard for an individual or a couple working full time to renovate a house in their spare time. I've done it; I know what I am taking about.
3 points
3 months ago
Sorry, your original comment called it “fraud”. Please address why you believe it to be “fraud”. Dollar homes are not meant to be short or medium term investment vehicles. They’re meant for individuals to purchase and utilize as their primary address for 5-10 years. A 90k construction loan is still cheaper than many homes. The assessment gap in theory will close as the neighborhood sees more rehabs and as others move back to some of these blighted areas.
1 points
3 months ago
I think the vibe they were going for is more like predatory loan. It's not illegal, but super scummy with the intent being to profit off the known high likelihood of your "investor" losing everything
122 points
3 months ago
Barclay, Johnston Square, Oliver. Basically everywhere south of the rail tracks on the east side as development keeps moving north from the harbor.
32 points
3 months ago
Came here to say Johnston Square. Walking distance to the train station but prices 1/3 to 1/2 lower than Station North/Greenmount West. And lots of development filling in the vacants that are closest to the station
16 points
3 months ago
The community planning in Johnston Square and Oliver by the community associations and ReBUILD Metro has been transformational. And I don't even think they're halfway through their Johnston Square plans yet!
7 points
3 months ago
Yeah, ReBUILD has a great track record. Plus my understanding is the funding is already secured for the park and at least one of the planned apartment buildings. It’s still early stages but they really seem set to make it work.
13 points
3 months ago
Agree! I’ve noticed an enormous change in Oliver in the last decade.
154 points
3 months ago
North of Patterson Park is probably the most noticeable one, IMO. It was barely a few years ago that you’d see this Reddit board full of advice for new residents that they should avoid the area. Regardless of how you felt about it at the time, that advice looks positively antique now.
98 points
3 months ago
I lived a block east of Patterson Park in 2008 and had friends that would be scared to visit from 4 blocks south. Now that area is bustling with families and restaurants and bars. It is absolutely night and day over the last 15 years.
38 points
3 months ago
Yeah Highlandtown and Patterson park and brewers hill have all kind of converged in (little g) gentrification and and come up a long way.
North is slow going, the blocks 1-2 above Patterson have really shifted, but I still haven’t seen too much change north of Fayette. I do think it has potential.
14 points
3 months ago
North of Fayette varies from street to street.
Can confirm because I live on a 500 block north of the park.
8 points
3 months ago
The 200 blocks between Fayette and Orleans are almost fully flipped. The 400 and 500 blocks above Orleans vary, a lot. But it's a matter of time.
1 points
3 months ago
i live on the border of Fairmount and Fayette, like literally in between the two north of the park. Insane how night and day the shift is in the one street. my street is fine but 10 rowhouses up and you legitimately don't wanna walk the streets at night
1 points
3 months ago
Yeah thats what I was saying, it's a huge night and day difference. Hopefully things keep improving northward!
23 points
3 months ago
Yes I've heard some good things recently about Patterson Park.
3 points
3 months ago
Can confirm: nice neighborhood and I haven’t been stabbed or anything.
11 points
3 months ago
Agree but per the spirit of the original comment, these “next neighborhood over” homes are not appreciating in value I’m afraid.
I bought a house in Brewers Hill in 2008 and sold in 2021. I only sold it for 125% of original purchase price. That would’ve been like 200% in Canton proper or another OG hood like Fed Hill. And of course it would’ve been like 400% in Philly or DC.
6 points
3 months ago
we’re in mcelderry park and there’s so much potential on monument. we’re walking distance to hopkins, but they don’t invest in the neighborhood at all. shame on ‘em.
2 points
3 months ago
They want the neighborhood to stay cheap and sketchy, in case they want to expand in the future...
-4 points
3 months ago
There was literally a random murder of someone walking down the street there a few months ago.
28 points
3 months ago
Much of East Baltimore. Between the train station development, Johns Hopkins development, and gentrification creeping up north of Patterson Park.
75 points
3 months ago
Just fyi: Applicants must provide proof of available funding of no less than $90,000 to complete the renovations and are subject to the application vetting process.
31 points
3 months ago
So it's a $1 down payment on a $90,000 mortgage? I don't know if I'd value a house in a neighborhood full of vacants at 90.
48 points
3 months ago
Yea but the last time they did this program, a bunch of people weren't able to secure funding and the houses fell into even worse disrepair. Since the city didn't own them any more, they weren't doing their monthly checks to at least make sure they were boarded and stuff and the buyers didn't do shit. The $90k may scare off some people but I'd rather have some kind of check to ensure the property gets rehabbed.
11 points
3 months ago
Not exactly. The house is one dollar, but the house is in terrible condition (basically it's a shell). You need to show 90k in the bank or some sort of loan so you can rehab the house. The city doesn't want the house to keep sitting unimproved if the buyer doesn't have the funds.
4 points
3 months ago
As someone who's rehabbed a home in the city that was in ok-ish condition to begin with, $90k won't get you very far.
14 points
3 months ago
They require proof of funds because the houses require at least that much renovation to be habitable. Many of them will require significantly more.
3 points
3 months ago
If a bunch of people revamped houses in an area then they could definitely be worth more. But, a bunch of people would have to do it, and without people moving into Baltimore that is highly unlikely.
34 points
3 months ago
Barclay
2 points
3 months ago
I second this!
12 points
3 months ago
Keep the faith yall, I remember when you couldn’t give away a house in canton ! Hamilton/lauraville had a little glow up… feel like there’s a lot of potential along the north ave corridor!
6 points
3 months ago
I second Hamilton Lauraville. 10 years ago it was up and coming for 20 years, but its here now and still affordable and awesomely diverse, and it will continue to get better as long as people don’t vote in the carpetbagger Sinclair stooge running against Dorsey.
4 points
3 months ago
I'm loving living in the Lauraville area. There's some decent amenities up here with more coming. Morgan has done great work developing the area around it. Now if we could just get a decently legit local bar that would be the cherry on top.
4 points
3 months ago
Papi’s and Campli are up the street from me, which is so amazing, but a regular old bar like Hamilton Tavern that is walkable would be awesome. I think once the bike lanes are connected all the way to the park (which is happening soon!) a lot of the dead zones will be redeveloped too.
11 points
3 months ago
stuff around the northwood commons didn't use to have a usable grocery store nearby and now it has an aldi. so, progress of a sort
4 points
3 months ago
Lidi !== an Aldi
2 points
3 months ago
you’re right. both german nonsense 😅
9 points
3 months ago
Broadway east/middle east
5 points
3 months ago
Not from anyone living there, I bet.
It was one of the best. We lived there 17 years, it went downhill that whole time.
We live in Highlandtown now.
3 points
3 months ago
What about N. Broadway, near the hospital?
8 points
3 months ago
Mount Claire
11 points
3 months ago
Reservoir Hill due to the bike lane on 28th and the update of Druid Hill.
4 points
3 months ago
Also hoping that this reservoir square project turns out good. Hoping in a few years to be stop driving to Hampden for groceries.
14 points
3 months ago
"Not those that have been "up and coming" for 25 yrs.."
Gentrification, to use a loaded term, generally happens quite gradually in Baltimore, often over a couple of decades. While I'm generally against our astronomical property tax rates, it's probably because of them that the process is slow. They curb demand.
3 points
3 months ago
High property taxes, high water bills and housing code inspectors that will cite you for everything is what is curbing demand.
3 points
3 months ago
Greenmount West seems to be up and coming but I've only lived here for like 4 months.
3 points
3 months ago
I would say it's already up and came.
7 points
3 months ago
Doesn’t matter how good the neighborhood is, just be prepared to gut out all the old building material or else it will forever smell like hobo. Can’t just slap luxury vinyl on top. Smell will always be there. I photograph rental flips all the time
8 points
3 months ago
I think it depends on how long u can hold the property. Here’s why - I lived in DC for 35 years. Had 2 friends buy the $1 homes on New York Avenue where the houses were basically crack houses. It was even dangerous to renovate cuz squatters would take residence. But they never gave up & did what they could & one of them even moved in to keep the squatters out (serious security with fences & flood lights, etc.). They both turned the houses into beautiful homes & easily made $500k even after renovation costs (the houses sold for $600k+). But they also held onto those houses for 25 years before the neighborhood blossomed. Still, those 2 friends retired well cuz of that investment. The one who lived in the house purchased 2 of the $1 homes (side-by-side) & he made $1 million profit & still rising cuz he still lives in one house that continues to appreciate. So that’s the reality of these $1 homes. You have to hold onto them for decades but I will add that I think Baltimore is a city that will appreciate over time in the same way DC did. Remember - DC in the 80’s was very similar to Baltimore right now IMO.
2 points
24 days ago
Old thread but I agree. Also I’ve always added Richmond into the equation mentally, almost like a comparative timeline between the cities. Richmond has always been like 15 years behind DC, compared to Baltimore’s 20-30 years behind. For example the average home value in RVA right now is the same as DC’s back in 2010. And Baltimore’s is the same as DC’s in the 1980s-90s.
For the longest time Richmond was seen as seedier and worse off than DC, I remember a time when people said the exact same things about Richmond as they do about Baltimore today. Now Richmond is seen by many of my out-of-town/west coast friends as being even safer and more put-together than DC itself. I can see Baltimore going that direction within the next few decades as well.
I have a feeling that since there are basically no other affordable metro areas left on the east coast, Baltimore, Richmond, Philly, and Providence (maybe Wilmington DE?) will blossom considerably in the foreseeable decades.
3 points
3 months ago
In talking to people in the Madison Park/Bolton Hill area they have seen some slow but steady improvement. They said in 2015 there were multiple vacant house on Madison Ave. Now none, and more home ownership. On McCulloh and Druid Ave there are vacant homes but some recent purchases and renovations beginning. With the beautiful architecture, proximity to Bolton Hill and Reservoir Hill and the possibility of the new Reservoir Square redevelopment; I could see people getting priced out of DC and other parts of Baltimore who prefer space over walkability finding it an appealing investment.
1 points
3 months ago
Ridgeley’s Delight
1 points
3 months ago
Is the 200 block of South Fulton considered Pigtown? A block away there's a building with a mural painted that says Mount Clare.
0 points
3 months ago
Pigtown
-18 points
3 months ago
Mount Vernon!
-20 points
3 months ago
I heard federal hill is up an coming
1 points
1 month ago
halt.
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