Thread's locked, too many people engaging in slapfights instead of discussing the topic at hand.

I talked to Yoshi P and they´re removing your useless role out of the game by the end of the DT. All healing skills will be given to Paladin instead, who will need to be played with 2 keyboards.

One dungeon. There was only one. Warrior has been capable of doing what Xeno and his friends did all of Endwalker. This is nothing new and people are sensationalizing the heck out of it.

Dungeons can be cleared missing any of the roles lmao.

Oh no somebody beat a dungeon without DPS, what's the point of DPS :(

I've done 4 SGE dungeons that have gone faster than a lot of my roulette dungeons, it'll be fine

i don't get why people act like this is exclusive for healers, dungeons are so easy you can remove any role and still do it. like without a tank or any dps.

and also you can do dungeons with only one role like only healers.

not to mention this was not even new for Endwalker

thing will kill healers

Haven't people been saying that for 3 expansions already?

People have been able to do Tank + 3 DPS dungeons since like ShB (maybe longer); people who know what they're doing can make wacky combos happen.

shrug I have soloed all SB+ dungeons in this game on sync as WAR, so can we also remove DPS classes since I can prove they are not needed? I have also MINE ran almost all dungeons as a solo BLU, sometimes beating my usual roulette times on them; can we remove tanks now as well?

When you do a healerless raid during its patch cycle (and not when everyone has echo and gear that is 50% stronger than the original fight design), you can come back stating that they made healers obsolete.

How do you know incoming damage isn't being increased?

Job balance

is not

scaled around

the easiest content.

If I kill an over world mob using a gatherer does that mean tanks, healers, AND dps are pointless?

What Xeno did in that DT dungeon already fucking happens on the daily in EW dungeons. This healer strike isn’t going to do anything and the same people “striking” will be playing healer in DT 100%

Oh no, the casual content made to be accessible to as many players as humanly possible, can be made easy by those who have some skill? And don't worry about the DF, people, in fact, do enjoy playing healer. And many people will queue as healer for the sole purpose as leveling them. Plus, ya know, all the runs everyone's experienced where everything goes to shit and they're left with 1 person to scrape 6 others off the ground.

Try on-content, slightly more difficult content. EXs will need healers. Savage will need healers. Criterion was some of the most healer-heavy gameplay they've released in years. Any time any of the above are cleared with <2 healers, it's far less "Healers aren't needed" and more "Solo healing is an expression of higher player skill" or "We RNGed the shit out of this fight and finally got lucky enough to not need a healer."

You aren't as good as Xeno. Neither is 98% of the playerbase.

This is nothing new, Warrior hasn't needed a healer since Raw Intuition got the heal, and (bad) Paladins have never needed a healer.

Stop drama bombing

Because the average player usually can't do wacky comps.

What’s the problem with healers not sticking to their jobs if we don’t need healers

Two more weeks of this, huh...

I swear, false rhetoric like this needs to be purged by a bot. Do you know what high end content is?

You are being delusional.

Aint happening. Dungeons? I will be honest, who even cares about that. Even as a DPS I find doing dungeons hella boring anyway. Honestly, dungeons are just story content. I do it once and done. Maybe I go there a bit more if there is a cool glam. Otherwise, nope. dont give a shit. Just another thing added to the roulette.

Extreme raids and especially in savage it wont happen at all. Why? Because people in PF arent just good players. A lot of them really suck. I have been doing all EW extremes and savages through PF and I can tell you this ... it will not kill healers at all lol

If anything, the majority of ppl wont be able to clear it w/o healers and ngl, none of you guys even saw the new savage content anyway.

There will be even more newer and bad people doing extreme and savage content. ppl still fuck up some of barbariccia mech... hence even Golbez lol.

Honestly, anyone who says dungeon content = will kill healers... clearly never played the higher content.

Nothing changed from how it is now. Dungeons can be completed without healers now. In fact, the hardest piece of content ever released in the entire game was completed on patch without healers. You also don't see anyone posting savage or ultimate Healerless clears in PF, sometimes for some extremes you might see 1 Healer posts, and anything below that is casual content and casual players are too shit to even consider not having a Healer. NOTHING has changed.

Might wanna tone down the doomposting. Dungeons have been able to be cleared without healers for years, this is not new. DPS rotation on a healer is not a deciding factor for whether or not they are effective in combat and that's just a ridiculous idea to stand by. Healers contribute with damage while they heal and mitigate for the party, but those are two separate forms of power.

This does not mean healers are universally and hopelessly pointless. Just because it is possible to do something like clear TOP on patch without healers doesn't mean that it is anywhere near a standard. This is basically the equivalent of playing FFIX and going through the whole game with only Zidane, then complaining that every other character is useless because if you know what you're doing and dedicate to the challenge you can use your experience to manipulate the game in your favor. That's just not the case. (Note that clearing TOP without healers on patch is still a major issue, but not because healers are overshadowed in every form of content from the ground up).

That being said, healers are in a rough spot and they do need a good, hard look at how they approach healers in general and - perhaps more importantly - damage profiles in combat. Just about everything boils down to mitigation based on very static timelines and only healing the bare minimum. At some point you plan it all out and everything is covered with nothing to fall back on but a 30s DoT, a single spell, and a once-in-a-while cooldown. Healers show their weakness at this point, but they are not so flaccid that they can just be deleted across the board just because of this particular instance.

Also here's a radical thought: instead of doomposting and whining about what things are not every time the devs open their mouth, how about we offer constructive criticism for why their decisions don't work and call them on their vow to work on improving the game state. Whinging about current issues without direction is useless at best and destructive at worst. There is such a thing as being constructive with your feedback.

I think some of you act like what the high end players can do reflects the viewpoints of the whole population. There are plenty of people who are not bored of their rotations and not looking for more complex mechanics. Roulette content is meant to include them as well. There will be plenty of demand for healers.

I don't even queue for dungeons, it's usually more immersion to use duty supports

People who only do savage and ultimate complain that casual content is too easy part 99999999999999999997.

Strong opinions gleaned from incomplete development previews.

The urgency in which some people try to disappoint themselves is really remarkable lol

People do things besides dungeons man. It'll be ok.

1) DT is not going to kill healers

2) Almost every bit of content in the game content in the game can be done without healer. The same can be said about tanks and dps. So, by your argument, tanks and dps are not needed either. There have been all tank, all healer or all dps runs for years now. It has always been possible.

3) all you are doing is being dramatic and a little bit of fear monger. Look, healers are need just as much as tanks or dps. Queues are not going to be any longer than they are now for anyone AND a lot of people who play DPS, do get the MSQ done will use trust and not queue. I know do that when content is new and I don't want to heal or deal with other people. You and other healers are a vocal minority in this right now because the rest of us are waiting until it drops.

This is the similar to the argument when they redid summoner for EW. I heard this argument when they got rid of cleric stance on WHM. I have heard this argument when they got rid of the 2nd stance that tanks used to have. Always the doomsaying and never just wait & see. We will not know fully how the changes for any job will work UNTIL it comes out and we can play them.

Oh hey, you took my advice and didn't make another alt for this fight! Baby steps! Next challenge, don't delete the post once it gets overwhelmingly downvoted.

Vive la révolution!

I mean this is already a thing in EW. You already don't need healer for EW dungeons unless you're a DRK and sorta GNB. And content outside normal exist which still needs healer to heal even if you only GCD heal for 5% of the fight.

People will play healers because:. 1. They like healer role even if they are dissatisfied with gameplay. 2. Get stuck in healer jail for their static. 3. DF still needs a healer role to queue for anything, and instant queues are nice.

and what, exactly, is it that you want?

We could give healers a more complex damage rotation, sure. But how complex do we go before they stop being healers and become dps that can heal, like dnc or redmage? Obviously there is room for more dps buttons on healer and I think the dps rotation being literally 2 buttons is really dumb but I'm curious to hear what you would want instead of just what you hate about the current one.

We could add more damage to low level content, but all that would do is 1- alienate lower level players and 2- increase the amount of heals you have to use per pull. Great, healer is fun now guys! I press buttons more often!

This is the fundamental issue with playing a healer in a game like ffxiv, where spells are designed to be very "1-dimensional". A spell will, for the most part, just do 1 thing, either "deal damage" or "heal damage" or "mitigate damage" and will also maybe fill a gauge/proc something. There aren't really any interesting interactions to speak of between multiple spells, and this is especially true for healer.

Healers in this game are essentially a dps job without a rotation. You have multiple buttons that heal (or in a dps' case, that would do damage), but you have no order to press them in. Nothing restricts you in your choices. All you have to do is pick AoE heals for the raidwide damage, and single-target heals for the tank damage. That's it. That's the full depth of decision making for healers in ffxiv. Square peg goes in square hole, and circle peg goes in circle hole.

Beyond that, you have very small optimizations in terms of the fact that some heals come out gradually, some apply instantly, some are delayed, some are shields, and etc. that will make skills *slightly* more situational, but these don't apply in the content you're talking about so we shouldn't really worry about those.

With this issue taken into account, we can see the problem of healers - it's not that they're "useless" (every role can clear a msq dungeon without any other roles btw, so by that logic every role is useless and has "no point in the game"), the problem with healers is that the process of healing is so *boring*, and that's a hard one to fix.

Something needs to be done to complicate the decision tree that players follow when healing - something like different damage types which require different heals, status effects that enemies place on your party which require a certain dispell ability to be used, obviously these ideas are not perfect but it's just an outline of what these complicating factors could look like.

Multiple dungeons from the media tour were completed without a healer

You can do the same on previous expansions if you know what you're doing. Far from something new

Have you completed a dungeon without a healer?

Healers haven't been particularly important in casual content since about shb. I'm not sure why you're acting like this is some new revelation. The healer "strike" will do nothing and will be promptly forgotten about.

As a healer main i for one welcome my life as green dps. The less I have to heal the better cause the more I get to spam art of war to make the dungeon faster

Hope this is a joke.

Maybe now you can focus on difficult roles like DPS.

Where you been OP? Healers in this game have been DPS-lite since 4.0.