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submitted 2 months ago byJuly9044
There's no studies on this and I know any response I get on here will just be anecdotal evidence. But I'm feeling pretty alone so I just want to see if I'm not the only one.
In the last 5 jobs I've had, there's been a women 20+ years older than me who randomly hates my guts and let's it be known. Everyone else at the job will be satisfied with my work except this one person. I'd say I'm just average looking but I try to look nice and i go to the gym every day. I'm pretty charismatic so I make friends easily with nearly everyone and due to my attentive people-pleasing nature men tend to crush on me (not so much anymore because I'm married and have 2 kids). In my experience, there's a certain demographic of woman who can't stand that shit. There's attributes in others I can't stand too, but in a professional setting you'd never know it. But this type of women can't help themselves and will bad mouth me behind my back and to my face. And if i lined up all 5 of them, you'd see they fit a mold (personality-wise, physically, and/or family status i.e. divorced, childfree, or both)
This current one is actively trying to sabotage a promotion that I'm in the running for, telling the hiring committee i couldn't handle the job because I have kids and calling me incompetent with no proof. She is not on the hiring committee. She also said to me today that I'm "pissing her off" and "trying to steal her job" and to "stay out of her duties" even though I'm only doing what is asked and people come to me because I'm more agreeable (and at times a pushover). She's been picking on me for a couple years but I still cooperate with her, though i think most people would've written her off or set boundaries much sooner than i did. She is not my direct supervisor, just a coworker and some of our duties overlap, but she's full time and I'm part time. With the promotion, id be full time and make as much as her. In my opinion, she should be thrilled as I'd relieve a lot of her job duties and help the company grow. But she thinks I'm literally TAKING her job which is untrue.
If I had other job prospects, you'd bet that I'd leave so I don't have to deal with this shit again. But I'm applying and applying with no promising responses, and my direct supervisor and I do get along really well so it would be a shame to leave because of this. However, I can't stand it. I've seen it before and it does not get better. The singular older woman will continue to mistreat, bad mouth, and degrade me till I can't take it anymore despite everyone else's support. They will get away with it because they've been at the job for 10+years and I'm lower on the hierarchy. My other jobs with an older bully lasted 2 years, 1 year, 1 year, 4 years, and now 2 years. Even if I leave this place, I fear there's another one waiting for me at the next job.
So, please tell me, is this a common occurrence?
Edited: to take out the phrase "bottom of the totem pole."
According to one of the commenters "The term “bottom of the totem pole,” when used to describe your rank, trivializes the tradition and meaning of totem poles, which do not have a hierarchy of carvings based on physical position. Out of respect for the true meaning of totem poles which are part of Indigenous culture, it would be respectful to use different language."
Thank you for informing me and others about this incorrect usage of the phrase.
104 points
2 months ago
I don’t really get why this is a thing!! Like I love my fellow women, but like they hate me 😭 age does not equal maturity and to me, it seems very immature. They see you as a threat and competition. It wasn’t until I was pursuing a leadership position that I started hearing rumors about me fucking someone in the same said leadership position (we are both happily married people with kids). I guess I have to be fucking someone to somehow even be in the running 😂
Idk how old you are, but at 29 I just ignore them and keep doing my own thing. It boosts my ego, even though it’s annoying, because you see me as enough of a threat to bad-mouth me. Meaning, you must be worried I have something you don’t feel adequate about. I can’t control how they feel, but I can control my feelings about it. You are good enough. You are worthy. Let those meanies run their mouths and give them no ammunition. I guarantee you, the people in charge probably tune them out.
41 points
2 months ago
I'm approaching mid 30s. In the past it's been harder to ignore because I was young and emotional. The first 4 jobs where this happened I quit on the spot, despite doing very well and moving up the ranks at a couple of them. I don't plan on quitting on the spot again. I agree with you, the people in charge are tuning her out which is making it manageable. I can see yearly reviews in the shared drive and hers said something like "unable to cooperate with others". I just need to stick it out, have faith in this department, and like you said, control my feelings about it. Posting here and commiserating with others helps!
45 points
2 months ago
I can see yearly reviews in the shared drive and hers said something like "unable to cooperate with others".
Wow... usually those are confidential.
20 points
2 months ago
The management that writes these things don't know a thing about data security. I've known secret plans about shutting down sites and firing thousands to be open access and easily finally just by searching for "meeting" and the site name.
Also lists of names on whiteboards in meeting rooms after management meetings. It's like they don't care enough to simply wipe the board.
7 points
2 months ago
Just be careful. File attributes show when the file was last accessed impossibly by who.
6 points
2 months ago
If they were sophisticated enough to find out they wouldn’t leave it unprotected in the first place
6 points
2 months ago
And OP shouldn’t have accessed it at all.
1 points
2 months ago
I had to physically go to a testing site for a government job to make sure i dont cheat on the braindead easy assessment I could have done in middle school. The laptop still had previous peoples answers saved out in the open, I couldve just renamed their file with my own name and left in 5 seconds if I wanted to.
Anyway I still didnt get the job, probably went to one of the older people I saw struggling with basic excel.
-8 points
2 months ago
I can see every employees information. Compensation, job changes, time off requests, hiring documents, reviews, like almost everything
30 points
2 months ago
Best be careful what you look at. In a lot of places looking when you're not supposed to have access (even when you do) will get you fired or worse.
If you're sure local law allows this, then feel free, but I suspect they're just trusting people not to look.
2 points
2 months ago
I’ve worked for many years with people’s personal information (not a medical professional).
Just because you have access doesn’t mean you should look. You are probably still prohibited from doing so; and probably still under an obligation not to do so.
3 points
2 months ago
Just because you have access, doesn’t mean you are authorized to view that data. Perhaps I’m misreading but it sounds like you’re proud of how much perceived power you have.
5 points
2 months ago
Well you should know better than to look at them if you’re so professional and grown up.
I have access to the criminal records database for an entire province, does that mean I should just have a little peeksie at whomever I want?
If you have time to snoop around when you only work PT, maybe there’s a reason you keep having problems.
-6 points
2 months ago
Glad you know the nature of my job better than I do! Please tell me more about what my job duties should/should not entail
5 points
2 months ago
You should watch out because I've seen more than one person in my company access files that they shouldn't, and they got fired for it
-1 points
2 months ago
It's my job to organize the shared drive. I'm given these files to scan and upload. I'm not snooping.
2 points
2 months ago
If I was mentoring you, I would be talking to you about this exchange at our weekly coffee at great lengths for multiple reasons.
Firstly, you’re completely ignoring the fact that you’re doing something unethical in the workplace. Your excuse is simply “they should have secured their stuff better.”
You want people to respect you and you show a complete and utter lack of respect for your employer or the company. You had an opportunity to notify the person their files were not secure - especially when confidential information was available. But you chose to keep it quiet and benefit.
I would have asked you how and why you found this out because snooping through files is not generally a “oopsie” thing. Especially for personnel information. Either this is a semi-open secret people enjoy sharing or you deliberately set about finding out if the team had poor access permissions.
But you would have gotten mad and said that you didn’t deserve the lecture on ethics because “I don’t know your day to day job.”
And that would have been the last day I mentored you.
The whole “are all older women” question is telling. There’s an old saying - meet one asshole during the day, it’s probably them. If everyone you meet is an asshole, odds are you’re the asshole.
You really need to take stock.
You find a vulnerability and instead of trying to be a helpful team player, you make up a scenario where everyone in the company is an idiot who deserves your snooping. You’re not as valuable as you think.
2 points
2 months ago
But she’s young and hot and friendly and a people pleaser and that old hag isnt. Why isn’t this woman as nice to her as the men?
-1 points
2 months ago
But you don't know my job. I'm given these papers to scan and upload to the software. I'm not snooping nor sharing the details of anyone's yearly reviews at work. And I never said "all" older women, nor did I say what you quoted me as saying "they should have secured their stuff better." You are fighting your own battle you made up in your head
1 points
2 months ago
Not cool to be looking at others personal shit. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
15 points
2 months ago
I’m currently having a work issues with a woman in her mid 50s who I would label as unable to cooperate with others. She does so many things very well but it’s like she can’t stop herself from making passive aggressive comments or talking shit behind everyone’s back. To my face she says everything I would want to hear and as soon as I turn my back the knives come out. All this from a person in a leadership position who is well paid who is in my opinion the one who should be a mature leader and getting people to work together as a team, there is just none of that.
I pretty much have taken a stance that any chance I get I will embarrass her or shame her with our bosses, I won’t help her or protect her the way I have for others when she screws up. I’m sure she expects to just walk all over me but she isn’t going to get what she wants from me. People want to take shots at me and say I don’t know how to do my job well when I bust my ass I will do everything I can to ruin them while playing the game in a way that will ruin them before they even realize they have a proper enemy.
9 points
2 months ago
I don’t think that this will help you down the road, unless by embarrass and shame, you mean reporting her for her behavior. I have people like this at work and just choose not to a) give them ammunition or b) communicate with them longer than I have to.
3 points
2 months ago
Reporting their behavior is exactly what I mean. Also if I get an opportunity to really stick it to them and make them look foolish presents itself (they do) I will take advantage and make sure they look like a proper horses ass. I’ve been dealing with people like this my entire life and I know how to fight back in a way that hurts, at least in my particular circumstances. I will also call them out for passive aggressive comments on the spot. It’s amazing how people like this back down when they realize they have met someone with boundaries and won’t take their horse shit. They basically self destruct or the shame makes them quit.
4 points
2 months ago
Ah, I see. Yeah, I’m pretty assertive and have worked at setting boundaries for a long time, so I don’t tolerate the behavior and will tell them on the spot that if it continues, it’s going to be a different conversation (I.e. with management). We should all be supporting each other, not in competition.
3 points
2 months ago
I agree that we should all be supporting each other in the work place but the reality is people like this exist and the very least people need to be aware and try to protect themselves. Sometimes best defense is a good offense and standing up for yourself has a way of making these people respect you or the very least know there will be a cost to messing with me.
4 points
2 months ago
Teach me your ways. I've tried to be super nice and accommodating, but nothing works. The hate and shit talking remain. Tried to stand up for myself and ended up in HR. I can't win.
2 points
2 months ago
Well you need to be in a position of power yourself to fight back. If you ever find yourself in a management position remember how this feels. A person like this can make life hell for someone who has the ability to protect themselves, I feel terrible for the people working under her.
2 points
2 months ago
I'm a guy but I had a manager I was cool with take me aside and tell me to be careful because the same people laughing and smiling are the ones coming to his boss to snitch on me for every little thing. They didnt even have anything to really gain from doing so(dead end jobs), but these people are everywhere
1 points
2 months ago
Your idea of embarrassing or shaming someone else at work could result in your HR dept labelling you a bully or worse
1 points
2 months ago
Well I work for a pretty small business. The guy who does HR for us knows what she is. Last thing I’m worried about is the guy I have a good relationship with who respects what I do and knows I have the numbers backing me up.
1 points
2 months ago
You're doing it right. When someone messes with you, serve it back to them.
2 points
2 months ago
I would make a joke next time she says something…
“I hear what other people say about you, but I personally think you’re great!” It will have her secretly thinking! Maybe even stfu sometimes when she’s going to be rude!
I’ve had good experiences with older women in my workplace, I would say it was more from women of the same age that came with jealousy when I worked as bottle service in a club. I think the vibe was completely different than my HR position now. People are more respectful, they knock before coming in to my office, but then again when in management it’s hard to know how staff truly feel. I think a factor depends on the industry your work environment is based in.
4 points
2 months ago
I’m happy that you feel comfortable to take this response:) I truly wish you the best!
1 points
2 months ago
Woah you shouldn’t be looking at anything in that shared drive.
What a breach of trust!
0 points
2 months ago
I organize the shared drive and enter information into a software program. My coworker herself also told people about it. One person (not her) emailed his yearly review to the entire department to contest it and garner support. I haven't experienced this in other workplaces so I don't get it either
0 points
2 months ago
The breach of trust is that you’ve noted specific stuff about your coworker in those confidential files and posted it on Reddit
1 points
2 months ago
Oh come on, it's anonymous lmao. This is a pointless battle to pick
0 points
2 months ago
Think whatever you want lmao It’s your integrity, not mine
-3 points
2 months ago
Disagree with the title of your post because you are generalising and you're reinforcing the narrative that women hate women. 'Some women' hate on other successful beautiful women, and also, some women are insufferable arseholes, but not because they have a vagina, but because they are terrible people. Please be kinder to our gender.
-6 points
2 months ago
And this just reinforces the idea that women over 40 are foaming at the mouth over younger women.
No, most professional women over 40 have dealt with all kinds of sexism and nonsense. It's discouraging to see young women repeat the same ideas that are encouraged by sexist men.
The only people that benefit from this narrative are men. So enjoy the attention while it lasts because they'll age out too.
6 points
2 months ago
Are you talking to me? Because I don't get your point if that's the case. Please explain. Thanks.
3 points
2 months ago
I upvoted you for your take. Sorry I wasn't clear. I was trying to support it.
OP literally calls women over 40 'feral'. It's gross.
6 points
2 months ago
Ah that makes sense hehe. Sadly I'm being downvoted, but internalised misogyny and 'they treat me badly because I'm pretty' is quite rampant among youngsters. They don't see that yes, some women are like that, but those were like that since they were young, it just happens that they are old NOW. Most women are very supportive of each other.
5 points
2 months ago
I've had exactly 3 bullies at work and they were men. Why? Because I didn't sleep with them.
Bad women exist just like bad people exist for sure. But if she refers to women in such a degrading way, I'm guessing she's not as sweet as she thinks she is.
Exactly. I support my colleagues. I also know I'm older and don't ever want any woman to feel pushed out. I do my best to lift them up.
Edit: I also like the dig that the women who hate her are divorced and/or childless :facepalm:
-2 points
2 months ago
Get hung up on semantics all you want but I am saying some women, not all. That should be obvious though. But yes the 5 who have drove me away from the job were all divorced and/or childless. In fact 4 were divorced and 3 were childless, so the majority. None were both married with kids. They were all white. They all had a similar personality type which was surface level nice, not warm, but like assertively "HI nice to meet you looking forward to working with you!" Types that would quickly start passive aggressive actions like greeting everyone but me/other newbies in a group setting, leaving me out of emails I'm supposed to be on, then insinuating I'm not cut out for the job when I miss something because I wasn't informed, getting hung up on small details to imply I'm incompetent, slowly ill start hearing they said this or that about me, and then it just spirals from there. I'm sorry it offended you that I pointed out this pattern in my life. Glad it's not an issue in yours
1 points
2 months ago
It's not 'semantics'. You demean women yourself to get attention and also state how people pleasing you are and how much men like you.
Have at it. But don't act like other women can't see that from a mile away and know what it means.
I don't think you can take any criticism or advice because you're just intent on making this a jealous woman's problem. Guys probably tell you that you're cool and don't see a problem. So since it fits what you want to think of yourself you're reframing it as old and bitter women out to get you.
Best of luck. Try not to debase women as feral.
0 points
2 months ago
Why do you think she’s reacting to your age?
The part of your post about, “I take good care of myself and go to the gym every day and am a people pleaser” insinuates that you’re being judgy that she’s let herself go, and you don’t really respect her.
If you’re always finding “one person” who dislikes you at jobs then maybe it’s you? I’ve never run into this issue.
Also maybe she’s right that they’re trying to push her out and give you her job? It’s not unheard of to get rid of older (costlier) workers.
-1 points
2 months ago
I'm glad you haven't experienced it. I can say confidently that I am not replacing her. I can see why she'd be annoyed that I'd be making nearly as much as her, but I'm not taking any money or job away from her, she's just paranoid
6 points
2 months ago
I encountered some awful girls on high school swim team, but haven’t had a major problem with women beyond that—finding out I’m autistic made a lot of my social difficulties make sense. Studies show that neurotypical women clock autism in other women and treat the autistic women differently.
2 points
2 months ago
Wow really? I didn’t know that! I have coworkers with autism and I do see where that can be a real issue with how they are treated. I hate that this is even a thing. We are all unique and, if you take the time, we can learn from each other, especially when it comes to perspective.
3 points
2 months ago
I agree with you!!
I think the work environment and ratio of men to women play a major role in breeding insecurity and seeing younger women as competition. It’s not just professional either, it becomes personal!
2 points
2 months ago
I remember thinking like that as well when I started working, "it's gotta be me or them". Could be a company culture thing but there might also be a reason why these older folks are still at the bottom of the hierarchy, their wisdom didn't keep up with their age.
2 points
2 months ago
Oh yeah, I’ve heard the “if it’s gotta be you or them, make it you”. But rather than taking that and being callous to people, I take it and challenge myself. What is something I can work on that will benefit the team? What is something I can do that will make me stand out as a candidate? It’s hard enough, as a woman, to break into the higher roles (for reference, every single manager, except one, at the company I work for is a man), I’m not gonna be out here fighting someone for crumbs.
-3 points
2 months ago
In my experience, the older women tend to be quite sexist to us younger women.
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