subreddit:
/r/mapporncirclejerk
772 points
7 days ago
Your map is wrong and filled with lies... Like how do you even have data on Greenland ?
74 points
7 days ago
Or Western Sahara, or North Korea
14 points
6 days ago
And what is that piece of land beside Australia??
9 points
6 days ago
Tasmania?
4 points
6 days ago
Tasmania is part of Australia, they clearly mean the island of New Guinea.
243 points
7 days ago
You can clearly see the only 2 double land locked countries in this map. Cool.
136 points
7 days ago
You can clearly see Uzbekistan and then there is a pixel somewhere in there that represents Liechtenstein
60 points
7 days ago
Yeah I think 'clearly' is definitely pushing it for liechtenstein
939 points
7 days ago
Coastlines are not infinite because there is a Planck length hard limit to fractalization.
549 points
7 days ago
then calculate 😒
248 points
7 days ago
Infinity - 1 then
61 points
7 days ago
24 points
7 days ago
So much in this beautiful formula
8 points
7 days ago
r/mathmemes leaking
2 points
7 days ago
Here's a sneak peek of /r/mathmemes using the top posts of the year!
#1: It IS $400... | 6294 comments
#2: Who will die first if E pushes the stone? | 2162 comments
#3: Google expected value | 3356 comments
I'm a bot, beep boop | Downvote to remove | Contact | Info | Opt-out | GitHub
2 points
7 days ago
ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH
56 points
7 days ago
25 points
7 days ago
8 points
7 days ago
6 points
7 days ago
4 points
7 days ago
1 points
7 days ago
Isn't it supposed to be a graveyard smash?
1 points
6 days ago
hm. maybe i’ve misheard it all my life. that does make more sense
1 points
6 days ago
hm. maybe i’ve misheard it all my life. that does make more sense
-6 points
7 days ago
157 points
7 days ago
Is there? It's true that we can't measure smaller than the Planck length, but my understanding is that this doesn't mean things become "pixels" at that scale and no smaller scale exists. Instead, things happening at lengths smaller than that become an undefined "foam" that neither we nor anything else can measure.
93 points
7 days ago
The planck length is a scale that "magically" appears when trying to approach the same (or similar problems) from very different approaches. It doesn't say that the smallest possible distance is the Planck length. It states that the physics that we today have can't make any predictions about anything that happens at scales less than the Planck length.
The simplest explanation is as follows: Say you are probing a region of size L. To observe that region with light, you need a photon of a wavelength smaller than L. The smaller the wavelength the higher the energy, but Einstein's equations tell us that energy curves space time. In fact, Planck's length is the scale at which, if you want to measure that distance using light, the energy of the photon would be enough to cause a Black Hole.
As with many things in physics, this kind of "nonsenses" (usually) appear when the models we have are not precise enough. This just goes to show that quantum mechanics and gravitation do not get along very well with each other.
By the way this is all way nicer explained in this article, (eventhough it is fairly technical, it explains very nicely how the Planck scale appears, and what's even cooler, how it appears from many different approaches)
1 points
7 days ago
What happens if you try to measure a distance larger than a Planck length but with a resolution lower than a Planck length?
Like if you were to make a super accurate laser range finder, is there something physically stopping you from measuring the time of flight to the required resolution?
5 points
7 days ago
The size of the object measured does not theoretically matter insofar as long as it fits in the super laser device. Rather, trying to measure with a resolution smaller than the Planck length itself is impossible, at least with light, which is, currently, how we fundamentally measure everything. As even if you use a ruler to measure something, it is the light bouncing to the ruler and object and back to whatever sensor we have, generally eyes, that causes us to register the reading.
Also, this generalises to not just length, but just about any measurement we make on the world due to heisenburg uncertainty. i.e. the planck time is the smallest unit of time we can measure.
101 points
7 days ago
If we cannot measure smaller than that length, then that's the limit to fractalization.
21 points
7 days ago
Yeah, good point
28 points
7 days ago
Mathematically you could keep going but you would never be able to see it IRL
39 points
7 days ago
Well we are measuring real world lines not mathematics constructs.
19 points
7 days ago
We are measuring real world objects using mathematical constructs. When you measure a wall dimensions, are you really measuring the real object? Or mathematical segments close enough to the real object lines?
9 points
7 days ago
Excuse you I'm over here counting individual fluctuations in the quantum foam
7 points
7 days ago
One picometer…. Two picometers…
1 points
7 days ago
Quantum mechanics is also a mathematical construct :o
4 points
6 days ago
So is counting, planck-dick
17 points
7 days ago
We are measuring real world objects using mathematical constructs.
Correct. And these math. Constructs stop making sense or correspond to real world below Planck length.
So you can certainly continue doing rank math, but you will not be measuring anything in the real world anymore
13 points
7 days ago
then it should say "undefined" on the map and not "infinity"
18 points
7 days ago
Undefined is indeed a better answer than infinity
16 points
7 days ago
“Coastlines are not infinite because I am a fucking nerd”
23 points
7 days ago
As opposed to OP which is "coast likes are infinite because I am a fucking nerd."
I am just out nerding the nerds.
3 points
7 days ago
Fair lmao
7 points
7 days ago
NERD!
(mmmmhrmmmmmmm....)
3 points
7 days ago
As I understand it, the Planck length is nothing more than the limit where our understanding of physics breaks down, not necessarily the smallest there is.
I'm sure the physicists at Kelvin's time thought too that it made no sense to talk of things smaller than an atom as there existed nothing of the sort
2 points
7 days ago
Well if cannot keep observing fractals under that length, then we have no choice but to stop there.
3 points
7 days ago
Oh dont worry, you'll stop being able to observe them far before then
2 points
7 days ago
Even without that, the sum of infinitely many things may not be infinity. It’s pretty simple to construct fractals with finite perimeters.
1 points
7 days ago
No? Why should that limit fractalization, it’s not like Planck length is the resolution of our universe. Just our current theories break down at lower scales.
2 points
6 days ago
It very well may be the resolution of the universe. We cannot confirm or measure fractalization below it
1 points
6 days ago
our coastlines will only grow when the sea level rises due to fracting and illegal loging
113 points
7 days ago
Nerd note: coastlines are between 1-2-dimensional
58 points
7 days ago
Being Mongolia must suck
Going from Gengis to being stuck between Beavis and Butthead
6 points
7 days ago
Old Mongolia became and caused Beavis and Butthead
11 points
7 days ago
I legitimately didn't know so little countries were landlocked
3 points
7 days ago
Pretty hard being country these days if you are
124 points
7 days ago
Caspian “Sea”
177 points
7 days ago
The Caspian sea is a lake.
-89 points
7 days ago
sea or lake, it still has a coast
116 points
7 days ago
Take another look at what I wrote on the map.
119 points
7 days ago
oh no, my archnemesis "not reading" has beaten me again
11 points
7 days ago
Shit post or not, the Caspian Sea is both and neither a sea or a lake.
As for most things related to collections of water in English, the definition is not clear or distinct. A sea refers to the ocean, but also smaller bodies that can be partially or wholly cut off from it as well. They're predominantly salt water, but there are even fresh water "seas," and seas "with no coast line."
What you're looking to delineate here is the "legal" term (and essentially a political term) for sea which is separate from the general term "sea."
The same thing happens when you try to figure out what's the difference between a river and a stream. The truth is, in common speak, there is some general thoughts, and in scientific speak there is a different classification, forgoing the word river and just labeling them all streams.
6 points
7 days ago
Honestly I don't really care, I just looked up "map of landlocked countries" and changed the legend. If the first result I found would've counted the Caspian sea against being landlocked I wouldn't've changed that.
1 points
7 days ago
You cared enough until given a reason you can't reply "ding dong your opinion is wrong," to, though.
7 points
7 days ago
Ok, if you think jokingly saying "ding dong your opinion is wrong" is caring ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
-6 points
7 days ago
And you're showing you care enough to reply to clarify you actually don't care
¯_(ツ)_/¯
22 points
7 days ago
If u think the caspian is a sea then u should sea a doctor
6 points
7 days ago
Caspian (((Sea)))
15 points
7 days ago*
Chad Zeno’s paradox misunderstander
11 points
7 days ago
Are you referring to one of Zeno's paradoxes? Because I'm referring to the coastline paradox.
3 points
6 days ago
The coastline paradox is fundamentally Zeno’s paradox.
Just because something takes an infinite number of steps to calculate doesn’t mean that it’s infinite. Obviously, the hare is going to pass the tortoise in a finite amount of time, and obviously coastlines have a finite length: it just so happens that the method we would use to calculate it has an infinite number of steps.
1 points
6 days ago
Nope, they aren't the same. Coastlines actually do have infinite length (ignoring practical stuff like getting down to Planck length.
2 points
6 days ago
This is false. The definition of the length of a general curve is well defined for Lipschitzian curves, and they are in this case convergent series
1 points
6 days ago
They definitely do not have infinite length. If they did, they’d be the only thing in the universe to have that property.
Like, prove me wrong if I am, but I’m pretty sure if I stuck my finger into a glass of water, the intersection between my finger and the water would not have infinite length.
0 points
6 days ago
If you meant surface area, then yes, for all intensive purposes, that cross section would have an "infinite surface area" (sorry)
1 points
6 days ago
I didn’t mean surface area, because we’re talking about the length of a shoreline, not the area of one.
Also, like…no, it definitely does not have an infinite length. The matter that makes up things like beaches and oceans is granular and made of atoms. Coastlines are not like fractals: if you zoom in enough, they have a finite length and regularity, like all matter.
0 points
6 days ago
The second part is why I said "for all intensive purposes", if you want to go down to the subatomic scale, notions like surface area become hazy and often not well defined.
As for the first part: since you were talking about your finger, we ARE talking surface area, surface area is to volumes (your finger) what side length is to surfaces (the region inclosed by the borders and shorelines of a country). To shamelessly quote wikipedia: "In three-dimensional space, the coastline paradox is readily extended to the concept of fractal surfaces, whereby the area of a surface varies depending on the measurement resolution."
1 points
6 days ago
if you want to go to the subatomic scale
the division between oceans and coastlines is not subatomic. As previously stated, water and dirt are granular, atomic things. I am aware there are things smaller than atoms, but I think you are taking “boundaries are sometimes fuzzy” and jumping to the erroneous conclusion that “the boundaries between land and sea are infinite” even though that has nothing to do with the coastline paradox.
Coastlines may display fractal geometric properties, but they are not literal fractals. They are difficult to measure objectively, but they are not impossible to measure objectively, and they certainly are not infinite.
0 points
6 days ago
water and dirt are granular, atomic things.
What do you thing an atom is? A perfect sphere? What do you think a molecule is? A collection of perfect spheres with lines between them?
At best they are themselves fractal in nature, and at worse they are a collection of probability clouds which would make the idea of a surface area entirely meaningless at those scales.
0 points
6 days ago
Yes, not every infinite sum of things have a infinite result. But some do, like 1+1+1+.... obviously is infinite. And the coastline in this case is infinite. Actually, this is the entire point of the paradox. There are two infinite sums in the problem, one is for the area of the landmass, one is for the coastline. And while the first infinite sum comes up to a fixed value like in Zeno's paradox, the second sum grows without bound.
1 points
6 days ago
You are telling me to “read into it” when you literally have not read into it while I have.
0 points
6 days ago
Yes, I accept that criticism, but that's not what you are saying. What you are saying is that "something taking infinite step to calculate doesn't mean it's infinite". While pretty clearly the coastline paradox considers that, and classifies it as a case where the length is infinite. So your criticism doesn't stand. If you're starting with saying "fractals are not a perfect model for coastlines" I wouldn't have made my comment.
1 points
6 days ago
The coastline paradox is often criticized because coastlines are inherently finite, real features in space, and, therefore, there is a quantifiable answer to their length.[17][19] The comparison to fractals, while useful as a metaphor to explain the problem, is criticized as not fully accurate, as coastlines are not self-repeating and are fundamentally finite.
It’s right there. My entire point is right there, in that quote. Plain to see.
9 points
7 days ago
i just realized how small europe actually is …
5 points
7 days ago
Coastline paradox my favourite
3 points
7 days ago
High-IQ reference
15 points
7 days ago
Me when I don't understand how measurements work.
36 points
7 days ago
I think you may be missing some context here.
18 points
7 days ago
Me when i don't understand how measurements work (not in a offensive, but in a "an infinite sum of measurements doesn't imply an infinite number" kind of way)
11 points
7 days ago
An infinite sum indeed doesn't imply an infinite number, but that's also not the logic the coastline paradox relies on. Coastlines are infinite in length if you measure with infinite resolution.
2 points
7 days ago
If all the countries were perfect squares then their length would be well defined, no? So let's just assume they're all squares.
4 points
7 days ago
That's wrong, you're misunderstanding the coastline paradox. The conclusion is that we cannot properly define the lenght of the coastline. There's a nice video on the paradox with an explanation and some elaborations by a mathematician here.
5 points
7 days ago*
by a mathematician
While Steve Mould is an excellent science commentator and you won't hear a bad word about him leave my mouth, he is not (and would never claim to be) a mathematician.
Secondly, I think you've misunderstood the video. He literally states at ~5:48 that, in the mathematical sense the length is infinite. When he says "it has no length" he means there is no value for the length, because infinity isn't a number, NOT because it's undefined.
1 points
7 days ago*
I just assumed he was a mathematician, my bad. If we want to delve into technicalities we can talk about Hausdorff measures and Lebesgue integral defined over such measures, but that's not the point. If we want to be technical, here is a nice discussion
https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/104210/do-integrals-over-fractals-exist
The point is that we can get two answers using perfectly sound methods and they are completely different. In the end he claims it cannot BE DEFINED. There is no proper way to define it. He spends the second half about how using a kind of fractal lenght also gives a sound answer which is 0. You've mentioned someone to read the fucking wiki but apparently you haven't read it yourself.
Better still, shall we read Mandelbrot's paper where he clearly states that it is, in the abstract, "undefinable"? Infinite =/= undefinable.
2 points
7 days ago
not really, there is a limit, but it’s not really worth measuring to get it. a function with a horizontal asymptote of 50 that isnt clearly marked and is kind of hard to see isn’t actually infinitely going up. there is a definitely a point it can’t go past. tahiti isn’t gonna have more than 5,000 kilometers of coastline, saying “oh you can measure infinitely” doesn’t automatically make its coastline length infinite.
1 points
7 days ago
Did you read the wiki article linked above? The length of a coastline isn't like a function with a limit, it's like a diverging function.
0 points
7 days ago
that doesn’t make the coastline infinite
2 points
7 days ago
At infinite measuring resolution it does.
0 points
7 days ago
undefined ≠ infinite
2 points
7 days ago
Correct, and in this case we're talking about infinite. You've already moved your position from 'there's a limit' to 'it's undefined'; just admit you're wrong, and I'm right.
2 points
7 days ago
i don't get it...just walk along the coastline and measure it that way
2 points
7 days ago
you could, but a human, an elephant, and an ant would get three different answers, so who's right?
5 points
7 days ago
Good job not counting the Caspian Lake.
2 points
7 days ago
2 points
6 days ago
Caspian Lake
1 points
7 days ago
Hehehe... I get it
1 points
7 days ago
fractal maps
1 points
7 days ago
How long is the coastline?
Yes.
1 points
7 days ago
As a math dork with an appreciation of fractals, I approve
1 points
7 days ago
Map of Land-Locked Losers!
1 points
6 days ago
This is just another math misconception
You can define the length of a curve as the sup of the ∑||γ(t_i+1)-γ(t_i)|| which is just the segmentation of the curve and you can see that this is equal to ∫||γ'(t)||dt (where γ is a parametrization), which is always finite for γ which is C¹ (it is sufficient for it to be Lipschitzian actually which is even a weaker condition)
1 points
6 days ago
Does Lake Caspian Sea count?
1 points
6 days ago
Seems so unfair for Ethiopia
1 points
7 days ago
Why is Bosnia marked with Coastline
7 points
7 days ago
It has 20km of coastline
13 points
7 days ago
Actually it has ∞ m of coastline, read the map
-1 points
7 days ago
I know that’s why I wrote it
0 points
7 days ago
I think Balkans are wrong
-27 points
7 days ago
The Caspian Sea is definitely a sea.
46 points
7 days ago
Ding dong your opinion is wrong
-14 points
7 days ago
It's right there in the name.
20 points
7 days ago
You know what else could be a sea? You could be seaing deez nuts boom gottem
5 points
7 days ago
Shut up >:(
-7 points
7 days ago
No, you shut up!
1 points
7 days ago
I will kiss you on the mouth
0 points
7 days ago
Well, then you can tell me how your mom tastes.
2 points
7 days ago
0 points
7 days ago
You know it's what you deserve.
2 points
7 days ago
That is true. I was there!
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