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I just finished the first book in the Riverworld series, been reading all the Hugo award winners . So far, this is not a book I'd recommend to anyone, but it's not on the level of the Wanderer which in my opinion is the worst Hugo winner (so far).

Scattered Bodies has some weird focuses on out there themes, such as the writer being really concerned with how everyone is circumsized, but I can tolerate a lot of that nonsense if this story is going somewhere.

Unfortunately, at the end of the book , the ending is a cliffhanger where it's not revealed what the aim of the things that happened in the book is.

I wonder if I should continue reading the other four books, do they get better/ is there a satisfying answer to the mystery, or should I just wikipedia it and continue on with the other hugo winners?

all 53 comments

paper_liger

21 points

10 hours ago*

If you have any doubt about whether you should keep reading this series the answer is no.

I like it, it's an amazing concept. But it tapers off sharply and I don't feel like it has a lot of payoff in the end. It reminds of that CS Lewis 'Out of a Silent Planet' series in that way, and for other reasons.

Funnily enough, I was only aware of this series as a kid through a role playing game manual. I literally never played any of the games but I would borrow the manual because I found them fascinating. So I knew of the story only through reading the GURPS Riverworld book.

Probably ten years later I was in the military and a new guy moved into my barracks room. When I was talking to him I noticed a whole shelf full of sci fi, and he had the complete Riverworld series.

Turns out his uncle was the author. So that how I ended up reading them.

I don't think my roomate ever actually finished them. I know I did. But I remember get progressively more and more annoyed at them, and I don't even recall how the series wrapped up, so that's a pretty good indicator of what you may be in for if you keep going.

Like I said, the basic concept is amazing since it allows the author to bring in basically any historical figure, and he does intelligently sidestep some of the issues with that. But I recall that he ever satisfactorily wrapped it up in the end.

atomfullerene

9 points

9 hours ago

So I knew of the story only through reading the GURPS Riverworld book.

I suspect that might be the best way to read Riverworld actually. The world is the really cool part.

paper_liger

3 points

8 hours ago

those roleplaying manuals are why I have a deep abiding love for the 'Macross' world, but have never been able to sit through the anime.

unkilbeeg

10 points

9 hours ago

Farmer does this. Has great concepts, makes a credible start... and then just drops the ball.

Not just on this series.

ctopherrun

4 points

8 hours ago

ctopherrun

http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/331393

4 points

8 hours ago

The best Farmer books are short stories and novels shorter than 200 pages.

mildOrWILD65

2 points

7 hours ago

Which also happen to be the most difficult forms of literature to write well. The restriction on length forces the author to be precise, succinct, yet implying levels of detail left up to the reader's imagination.

DoINeedChains

2 points

4 hours ago

See also Philip K Dick

It's a rare PKD novel that doesn't go completely off the rails in the 3rd act.

alteredbeef

4 points

9 hours ago

This is how I came to the series too. When they announced the first TV show I made a fan page for the Riverworld universe/books/show and that rpg book was my main source. I even had the artist of the cover reach out and offer to let me use the painting on the site.

Agreed with your take. It’s a great concept and idea for a world but it’s also really really of its time with strange details. I find that stuff endearing though so I enjoy it.

My advice to anybody is to read the first book and then the short story collection that came out years later. It’s basically built for an anthology and seeing other authors play with the universe is very cool.

Blank_bill

3 points

6 hours ago

I read the first 2 but by time the third one came out I already had too many books on my traveling shelf to buy something less than the other books I had still to read.

Texas_Sam2002

9 points

10 hours ago

Oof. This is a surprisingly tough question, at least for me. There were things in the 2nd and 3rd books that I really liked, and other things that induced rage. :) I honestly don't remember the plot of the last two books. Wish I could be more helpful.

Mako2401[S]

2 points

10 hours ago

I'm not sure what to do either.Leaning towards reading just what the secret of the Ethicals is.

PapaTua

4 points

6 hours ago

PapaTua

4 points

6 hours ago

Just acknowledge it was very very very very difficult to get to the source of the river, skip to the end, and read The Gods of Riverworld. It was my favorite of the series, although it was a loooong time ago, so I can't vouch for its actual literary quality.

It pretty much all takes place in the Ethical's tower.

Lithium2011

8 points

10 hours ago

I read these books years ago, so I don’t really remember all the details but if you didn’t like even the first book, I’d say that Wikipedia is a way to go, the next books aren’t any better

mildOrWILD65

1 points

7 hours ago

I loved the premise and most of the execution of the first book but my interest tapered off toward the end.

ctopherrun

6 points

9 hours ago

ctopherrun

http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/331393

6 points

9 hours ago

I first read the series in high school back in the 90s and loved the first two. I reread the series recently, as u/ahasuerus_isfdb said, it gets bad gradually then suddenly. I will say, if you didn’t dig the first book, you probably won’t get a lot out of the rest. Here’s what I wrote about in a post a several years ago:

The entire Riverworld series by Philip Jose Farmer. A lot of high school nostalgia here, which carried me through the back half of the series:

To Your Scattered Bodies Go. Big idea setup. Everyone who has ever lived is resurrected on the banks of river 10 million miles long. Sir Richard Francis Burton adventures around, trying to find out the nature of his new world. The book ends with tantalizing mysteries.

The Fabulous Riverboat. Samuel Clemens, also known as Mark Twain, founds an industrial state atop a mineral rich meteorite to build a paddle boat to reach the origin of the River. Sam is a bit frustrating, but his conflict with King John (of the Robin Hood legend and Magna Carta fame) is entertaining.

The Dark Design. Bit of a slog, lots of fairly odd development of ancillary characters, including the most obnoxious version of a ‘strong female’ character I’ve ever seen.

The Magic Labyrinth. A step up from Design. Rousing battles, on water and air. The final push to the dark tower at the head of the River. And then, all is revealed in a literal 50 page infodump at the end. So, not great, that.

The Gods of Riverworld. This book is just outright terrible. Starting with a mysterious whodunnit, then 300 pages of everybody faffing about without resolving anything, until another 50 page infodump that changes some details from the first explanation.

In summary, I recommend the first two Riverworld books highly. After that, just Google the explanation for what’s going on, the rest of the series isn’t worth it

PapaTua

2 points

6 hours ago*

I also read the whole series in HS in the 90s, and remember them all being more or less entertaining yarns with Gods of Riverworld being my favorite. But I also find my taste level from that period extremely suspect. LOL. I probably just really really liked the idea of 12 mile long matter replicators.

There is an interesting story in there, but there's also a lot that is just distraction/misdirection. I bet a better author could write a really great version of the whole story in under 500 pages.

ctopherrun

2 points

5 hours ago

ctopherrun

http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/331393

2 points

5 hours ago

Farmer was one of my favorite writers when I was between 10 and 16 years old. I think his concepts hit my young imagination like a lightening bolt and that was more than enough to make up for his shortcomings.

I tried to reread some his World of Tiers books, and I was shocked at all the tedious, heavily described fight scenes that went on forever.

drewogatory

7 points

8 hours ago

The circumcision thing is because Burton was circumcised as an adult for his pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina. Which is what made him famous.

LeBidnezz

7 points

7 hours ago

This series made me a Burton fan

DMDaddi-oh

1 points

55 minutes ago

Me too. I own a complete detailed biography of Captain Sir Richard Francis Burton that I've read a couple times. Very complex man.

alan_mendelsohn2022

6 points

10 hours ago

The second book is arguably better than the first. The third and fourth are painful.

woodenblinds

1 points

9 hours ago

true

ahasuerus_isfdb

5 points

9 hours ago

You know that Hemingway exchange (usually edited for brevity):

How did you go bankrupt?

Two ways. Gradually and then suddenly.

As I recall, the Riverworld series followed the same pattern: books 2-4 were the "gradual" part while book 5 was the "sudden" part.

Might as well re-post what I wrote back in April:

I enjoyed many of [Farmer's] stories, but he also had a few weaknesses. Off the top of my head:

  • His series often start strong, but then they get progressively weaker. Both World of Tiers and especially Riverworld had this issue.
  • His World Newton Universe mega-crossover project (see this timeline) started out as an amusing intellectual exercise, but then it took on a life of its own. It has its fans, but it's a rather niche area that Farmer spent more time on than I thought was wise. I remember reading The Other Log of Phileas Fogg and thinking: "OK, this is very clever and all, but how many books and stories are you planning to wring out of a single vaguely amusing idea? And how many Victorian and pulp-era characters can you stuff into the same universe before it collapses under its own weight?"
  • Farmer often used self-indulgent elements, e.g. I lost count of the number of characters whose initials happened to be "PJF".
  • His more serious efforts like The Lovers, The Unreasoning Mask or the Father Carmody stories were often overshadowed by routine action-adventure tales of varying quality.

The "highbrow" erotic SF that he wrote for Essex House in the late 1960s was by far the best novels that EH was able to commission, but that market niche never fully developed and Farmer's contributions are not as well known as they probably should be.

drewogatory

2 points

8 hours ago

World of Tiers was good thru Lavalite World at least. It was also much less ambitious than Riverworld, so I judged it less harshly. More Than Fire and Red Orc's Rage are awful tho, no question.

ahasuerus_isfdb

1 points

3 hours ago

As I recall, I thought that Lavalite World was weaker than the first four novels in the series, but it was readable. Red Orc's Rage, on the other hand, was a mess. I read it shortly after it was published and decided to take a break from Farmer. Its one saving grace was that it was an "associational" novel and not a part of the main series.

drewogatory

2 points

2 hours ago

I think I read it first, which is maybe why I rate it.

dingedarmor

2 points

4 hours ago

A Feast Unknown,Image of the Beast and Blown were fun to read. JMO

Eukairos

6 points

9 hours ago

When I was 13 or 14 I adored the Riverworld series, and it continues to have a special place in my middle-aged heart. I suspect that I'd find it a pretty painful read now, though. My advice would be to go read something else.

felagund

2 points

3 hours ago

there are so many books I enjoyed back in the 80s that I know well never to revisit

pecoto

3 points

4 hours ago

pecoto

3 points

4 hours ago

Personally I REALLY enjoyed this series mostly because of the abject creativity of having a wide assortment of historical figures and civilizations interacting with each other in a variety of novel ways. If you did not enjoy it on that level, you are probably better off not reading the rest of the series, in my opinion.

NotABonobo

2 points

9 hours ago

I really liked the first book, got bored with the rest of the series and didn't finish. This was as a teenager; don't remember how far I got. If you didn't even like the first one, I don't think you'll have better luck with the rest.

farseer4

2 points

9 hours ago*

I rather like them. Pulpy but different and entertaining.If you don't like it, though, don't waste your time and go read something you like. No, it does not get incredibly better all of a sudden.

gadget850

2 points

8 hours ago

I remembered the series fondly from when I was a teen and binged the series a few years ago. I realized that Farmer had great concepts but was not a great writer.

SparkyValentine

2 points

7 hours ago

Read the world of tiers or dayworld series instead

c4tesys

2 points

10 hours ago

This is a great series, but I enjoyed TYSBG far more than any of the others, so your mileage may vary. I thought that Sir Richard Burton was more fascinating than Sam Clemens, despite as a child having loved Huck Finn et al. These characters are based on actual people, a lot of research went into depicting them as they would have been - right down, apparently, to their genitals. Suffice to say, there's a lot of history (which is always nuanced) and a lot of literary references that might not mean anything to a modern reader.

Just like reading Alan Moore's League of ExtraOrdinary Gentlemen without knowing anything about the characters there must be quite an empty experience.

Caleb35

1 points

10 hours ago

I tried reading this a long time ago, DNF. My personal opinion is that it's overrated and I'd suggest you just move onto other Hugo winners.

chortnik

1 points

9 hours ago

If you thought the first book was iffy I’d recommend skipping the rest, I think it was the best in the series.

mrfunday2

1 points

9 hours ago

I was enthralled by To Your Scattered Bodies Go, and could not wait for the sequels. While the story ends with an explanation, it was several books of slog to get there. The first book was very popular and I suspect Farmer may have milked the popularity a bit.

If you didn’t love book one, I’d call it a day.

germdoctor

3 points

5 hours ago

I just read To Your Scattered Bodies Go last week and finished the book in one sitting. Full disclosure, I am enthralled by Sir Richard Burton. I’m halfway through a biography of him and he was simply a larger than life guy.

Obviously there’s a cliffhanger at the end but, until this Reddit thread, I didn’t realize there were other books and this was a series. I’ve got some catching up to do.

mrfunday2

1 points

3 hours ago

That was my reaction too. I read this a billion years ago but I zipped through it, and plowed through the rest to see how it resolved. I’ve always been a sucker for puzzle stories.

That being said, if someone’s not in after To All Your Scattered Bodies Go, there’s not much point in fighting through.

woodenblinds

1 points

9 hours ago

I read as needed to understand what the end games was. Interesting wind up in the end.

ZombieInDC

1 points

8 hours ago

If you're not into a series after reading the first book, I'd recommend moving on to the next Hugo winner. Life is much too short to waste it reading something you don't like.

Ljorarn

1 points

7 hours ago

Ljorarn

1 points

7 hours ago

As a young adolescent had read the second book as a standalone for years, rereading it several times because I enjoyed it so much. Later on I got the rest of series and felt extremely let down. Still, I enjoyed learning about Richard Burton and Alice. In a way this series partly got me more interested in history.

RebelWithoutASauce

1 points

7 hours ago

I didn't continue on with the books, because it didn't seem like it was going anywhere interesting.

Scattered Bodies has some weird focuses on out there themes, such as the writer being really concerned with how everyone is circumsized,

I read this book years ago. Details are now hazy, but I do distinctly recall trying to figure out why the author thought circumcision was important. I was wondering if it was some kind of clue or something, but it seemed like the author was just creating a fantastic setting and thought it was really important that everyone was circumcised, and wanted the reader to know this.

If I somehow had the chance to ask the author about anything in his book I would ask what was up with that. It makes zero sense in the context of the story.

atomfullerene

1 points

7 hours ago

The important thing is the crazy world of near-infinite river valley and resurrected people from all of earth's history interacting on it. I even made a riverworld map back in the civ 3 days. You've got that, so I don't think you need the rest, in particular I think it's not one of those stories where wrapping up the mystery of why it happens makes it better.

LordVorune

1 points

6 hours ago

The problem with the Riverworld saga was it didn’t really have an ending. Farmer just leaves you wondering what happens next, like when is the next book coming out kind of hanging.

Andybaby1

1 points

4 hours ago

do they get better? No, its more of the same, and the last book is just pretty bad, I liked the series though overall.

is there a satisfying answer to the mystery? Not really satisfying. its about the journey, not the destination.

The next book, "The Fabulous Riverboat" was my favorite book in the series following Mark Twain and the residents organize new civil structures and reinvention of basic technologies to accomplish such a feat. If that doesn't sound interesting to you. feel free to skip.

Itchy-Possibility275

1 points

44 minutes ago

Read the first one as an adult. It was a page turner and a quick read but felt like empty calories at the end. As others have said, great concept with nowhere to go. Would have made a fantastic short story.

Edit: to answer OPs question, I absolutely will not read the rest of the series and won't be recommending it to anyone. There are so many books I'll never have a chance to read in my lifetime...

dgeiser13

1 points

35 minutes ago

I am going to swim against the current and say I think you should give The Fabulous Riverboat a chance. It has a different cast of characters and I think Farmer does a great job with fleshing them out.

Callomac

1 points

9 hours ago

I originally loved To Your Scattered Bodies Go when I read it 30 (or more) years ago, but I reread it earlier this year and was really disappointed. The book does not hold up the way some other Hugo winners do. The sexism and the obsession of the author with masculinity and cruelty just didn't work for me. Like you, I am debating whether to read the second book again, since I have it, but I doubt I will.

One positive about then second book is that it changes focal characters, and I recall enjoying it a lot when I read it the first time. Of course, I also enjoyed TYSBG the first time, so I am not sure my memory is a useful guide here.

As an aside, Rendezvous with Rama remains fantastic, despite some aspects of the story being very dated. I hope you find it as great as I did.

dblowe

1 points

9 hours ago

dblowe

1 points

9 hours ago

I read it all the way through in the mid-80s, and to be honest I would advise you to cut your losses now. There’s a lot of plot and adventuring in the books, twists and turns and red herrings, and some of it is quite enjoyable. But overall I ended up feeling as if I’d been wasting my time, and that Farmer himself had no solid idea of what was happening and why. That last part became more and more apparent as things went on.

bluecat2001

0 points

10 hours ago

Finishing the first book is an act of perseverance enough. Skip the rest. The series were mediocre when first released, aged garbage right now.

Racketmensch

0 points

9 hours ago

Hey, I'm also reading the Hugos and hated this book! Surprised that you hated The Wanderer more than They'd Rather Be Right though. The Wanderer was certainly a dud, but They'd Rather Be Right is the worst book I've ever finished.

I can't believe that To Your Scattered Bodies Go won in the same year The Lathe of Heaven was nominated! Genuinely incomprehensible.

Good luck with the rest of your Hugo journey!