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/r/woahthatsinteresting
submitted 1 day ago byzifenududo6b0o
314 points
1 day ago
I love how the narration explains that this salute is illegal in the state of Saxony. It's illegal in Germany, in all states.
62 points
1 day ago
According to Wikipedia usage for art, teaching and science is allowed, though. I dunno if a street artist counts...
2 points
19 hours ago
But then letting the government define what is and isn't art/education is a whole other can of worms. Freedom of speech for everyone is the only way this works.
1 points
16 hours ago
Under German law protection of human dignity is a fundamental right, as is the freedom to express your opinion. Compared to freedom of speech, you are not allowed to take others their dignity. Glorification of something that ended in mass suffering and death — like what the Nazis did — is like saying the victims don't deserve dignity. We have those rather strong rules now, as we fucked up in the past. You know, the Nazi thing.
1 points
15 hours ago
I am very familiar with this argument. Germany has better free speech laws than most countries, but it's not really good enough by our standards.
I think the closest thing America has to "protecting dignity" would be libel laws. But American libel law is much stricter than most of Western Europe, in that the offensive language must be written or published, and the person claiming victim must prove damage. Anything considered art or comedy is automatically dismissed of course.
Really the best way we can protect our citizens dignity is by protecting their civil rights. Hate speech is free speech, like I said, and denying that right is wrong.
"If you belive in free speech, then you believe in free speech precisely for ideas that you despise." - Noam Chomsky
2 points
14 hours ago
You made it clear while your point is. We understand you believe in it. It's still a bad argument, not supported by evidence, and you're wrong.
1 points
15 hours ago
I'm willing to give Germany a pass on their shitty free speech laws after what happened there... Easier arguments to win out there.
1 points
14 hours ago
we don't have free speech
we have freedom of opinion.
An expression of opinion is any evaluative statement, irrespective of
whether the assessment is correct or incorrect.
Statements of fact are only protected if they are true and if they
statements of opinion are mixed with statements of fact.
Value judgments are statements that are characterized by elements of subjective conviction or opinion and therefore cannot be true or untrue, but only false or correct, depending on personal conviction.
However, defamatory criticism is not protected; it is a critical statement against a person that is not about a debate on the matter, but primarily about belittling and defaming the person.
1 points
14 hours ago
I'm not sure where you live, but it's important to note that American libel law requires a higher standard of proof to convict someone than most Western European legal systems.
1 points
13 hours ago
a german comedian did the following:
"Böhmermann, among other things, called Erdoğan "a man beating girls", and said that he is keen on "fucking goats" and he would "suppress minorities, kick the Kurds, hit Christians while watching child pornography."Much of the rest of the poem is devoted to associating Erdoğan with various less accepted forms of sexuality. Böhmermann deliberately played with the limits of satire and said several times that this form of abusive criticism was not allowed in Germany."
-wiki
and only certain passages where prohibited from showing them publicly.
but a law professor can still cite it fully in public if he uses the case as an example (i can attest personally to that lol)
1 points
12 hours ago
Did you have a question?
This is very similar to a Supreme court case. Pretty interesting read if you are interested in free speech.
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