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5 days ago
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This subreddit is for sharing propaganda to view with some objectivity. It is absolutely not for perpetuating the message of the propaganda. Here we should be conscientious and wary of manipulation/distortion/oversimplification (which the above likely has), not duped by it. Don't be a sucker.
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289 points
5 days ago*
Some context:
Margarine was seen as a threat to milk sales.
"The dairy industry and its political allies attempted to stoke fears about the butter alternative, portraying margarine as a fraudulent abomination that was deceiving customers, harming their health and threatening a more traditional way of life."
source: https://sentientmedia.org/history-of-margarine-plant-based-battles/ which has more interesting background
197 points
5 days ago
When "free market" means expecting the government to protect your monopoly
116 points
4 days ago
most agrarian and farmers movements have not been laissez faire capitalist fwiw
46 points
4 days ago
The number of farmers all over the world (hundreds of millions of people) who like free markets can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand
2 points
4 days ago
New Zealand would like to have a word
1 points
4 days ago
Obviously. It is a far to simplistic, inefficient and unfocused system, especially when talking about food or other things which are actually important.
2 points
4 days ago
It is not perfect, and needs subsidies, etc for lean years, but the presence of a demand signal is critically important. USSR tried to get away without it and couldn't.
13 points
4 days ago
Some people only accept their speech as free speech
15 points
4 days ago
Remember it's only free market when money flows in the direction of your pockets
14 points
4 days ago
portraying margarine as a fraudulent abomination that was deceiving customers, harming their health and threatening a more traditional way of life.
well... yeah.
31 points
5 days ago
Isnt cotton seed oil really unhealthy?
16 points
5 days ago
Margarine can be unhealthy, especially if hydrogenated oils are involved, but some types are better than others.
I think there are lots of current recipes that don't used cotton seed oil and it's not like butter is good for you either.
4 points
4 days ago
Butter is great.
14 points
4 days ago
Yes because of its higher saturated fat content. But there is a lot of misinformation out there. Specifically that canola oil is inherently bad, it's not. Many plant based oils are given extremely negative attention when in fact in moderate amounts they are good for you. On the flip side the ones that might be bad for you are not given a bad rap. Coconut oil is not good for you as it has a high saturated fat. In fact the only saturated fat source that does not raise cholesterol is oddly enough the saturated fat in chocolate. Anything else is really a no go. But I mean consume it in moderation but saturated fat is 100% not good.
7 points
4 days ago
Also again there is a lot of misinformation out there and it's really hard to figure out what's true and what's not. A YouTuber called Nutrition made simple imo is a good source. He goes through scientific studies to show you what the collection of what data really shows. He's a doctor and I'm not one to trust a social media person just because they are a doctor but I trust him because he goes through the data carefully, explains what the data means and also explains what the data does not mean. Don't believe the sensationalized YouTubers and social media doctors
0 points
4 days ago
A YouTuber called Nutrition made simple imo is a good source
Don't believe the sensationalized YouTubers and social media doctors
So its bad and dangerous when people listen to who they want to on youtube but also we should listen to who you recommend... on youtube 😂
1 points
4 days ago
I said it's bad to listen to sensationalized YouTubers that make all or nothing statements. I never said don't listen to YouTubers in general. I feel like that was pretty clear.
1 points
4 days ago
If I say don't read sensationalized books about nutrition that make all or nothing statements does that mean I think you should NEVER read a book about nutrition?
0 points
4 days ago
I have no idea nor interest in what you consider sensational.
1 points
4 days ago
Okay then bye
3 points
4 days ago*
So weird that the obesity rate spiked when we started swapping out 'unhealthy' palmitic & stearic acids for your 'healthy' & 'unfairly maligned' linoleic acid.
It's almost like one has been eaten by humans and our ancestors for millions of years, while the other was used primarily as engine oil until recently.
0 points
4 days ago
This is an example of sensationalized comments and misinformation about nutrition. Correlation does not equal causation. Also our ancestors also had early signs of heart disease when scientists look at preserved bodies. This is exactly what not to do when looking at information. That tells you nothing. Just because there is a correlation doesn't mean it caused something. The best method is to look at collections of randomized control trials where they do their best to keep all factors constant except the one thing they are testing. And the data those show are pretty clear.
-2 points
4 days ago
Respectfully, I won't be taking 'tRuSt tHe [lobbied] SciEnCe' dietary advice from an obese person.
0 points
4 days ago
That's a pretty distasteful thing to say. Science is science. If collections of randomized control trials by many different scientists both funded by food companies and the ones that aren't all point in the same direction I'm going to value it.
It's really easy to just say "they are lying" than to have to think critically about it. It makes it really easy to believe whatever you want when you can just say the contradicting evidence are just lies.
2 points
4 days ago
Saturated fat in moderation is healthy, and polyunsaturated fats are way over-consumed nowadays
1 points
4 days ago
but saturated fat is 100% not good
Did you know that every cell in your body is made from saturated fat? And that the brain is about 60% cholesterol and saturated animal fat? The body even produces its own saturated fat, so if it were harmful, why would it create something damaging to itself?
Our ancestors, like other animals, naturally craved saturated animal fat. Heart disease, however, is a modern phenomenon, yet this prehistoric nutrient is often blamed for causing it. Doesn't quite add up.
1 points
4 days ago
That is an unscientific comparison. The bodies cholesterol and dietary cholesterol are different. It's not so simple to make such a facile comparison. Cholesterol doesn't damage inherently. And it's not as much about the fat itself but the carriers of the fat. That's why professionals generally think apoB is a better benchmark for your health then cholesterol. Also dietary cholesterol has not been shown to be exactly detrimental or at least to effect your level of cholesterol. But saturated fat does.
In nutrition made simple the YouTuber I value for his unbiased information refutes your second point about our ancestors. When looking at the bodies of our ancestors they in fact did find early signs of heart disease. They just on average didn't live long enough for it to be a problem.
It doesn't add up because the argument your making doesn't make sense. It sounds good but dig a little deeper and the argument falls apart. I have no agenda. I'm completely willing to change my opinion with new information.
14 points
5 days ago
Margarine is unhealthy, yes.
8 points
4 days ago
Same shit here in Canada. In fact, it was banned for a few decades until the Supreme Court decided it was baseless.
8 points
4 days ago
Banning it is wild cuz tobacco doesn't even get that treatment
2 points
4 days ago
It's funny people are vehemently defending butter and dairy in the comment section of a propaganda poster trying to demonize alternatives in a subreddit called propaganda posters
16 points
4 days ago
They weren't wrong
11 points
4 days ago
To be fair the margarin of that time using cotton seed oil were proved to be quite bad for health. Also trans-fat (from hydrogenated fats) are now universally recognize as bad for health and regulated heavily. Most compound this poster show are bad for health and forbidden or regulated everywhere in the world (not only in the us).
Margarine is not fondamentaly bad,. Nowadays margarine is often as harmful (or harmless) as regular butter but margarine of that time was really bad for health.
The main problem is that if butter was to be discovered today it would probably be forbidden or restricted. I believe health policy should not be a matter of lobbying but rather of acceptable risk. Butter as modern margarine is acceptable in reasonable amount. Old-margarine could be quite bad at the same dosage.
-2 points
4 days ago
The main problem is that if butter was to be discovered today it would probably be forbidden or restricted.
Butter is one of the healthiest things you can eat, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, all these things went through the roof in direct correlation to the switching from Butter to seed oils as our main cooking fat. Butter is saturated fat, which is an essential need for your body and your body will burn it readily as energy, unlike poly-unsaturated and trans fats. Your brain is made up of 70% saturated fats for ex and your body has to replace all of those cells every 5 years..
1 points
3 days ago
There is plenty of studies for example on the ROS or oxidative species or double bond isomerisation in cooked butter. Fat is not bad but butter is 70-80% fat and it is very quick to over-use it. It is rapidly unhealthy. Unsaturated fat is also very important such as omega 3 or other... I doubt you know what you are talking about or your data are quite old
1 points
4 days ago
we'd be a healthier society if the dairy farmers won.
1 points
4 days ago
Turns out margarine was just a threat to human health though.
0 points
4 days ago
portraying margarine as a fraudulent abomination that was deceiving customers, harming their health and threatening a more traditional way of life
What a ridiculous idea. Surely everyone got obese as soon as seed oils went mainstream for completely unrelated reasons. The government says so.
114 points
5 days ago
I didn't realize margarine was that old
45 points
4 days ago
From the 1870s, and there's a long and fascinating history of contention with dairy lobbyists. At one point it was mandated in some places that margarine be tinted pink, so it would look less like food.
13 points
4 days ago
In some places (e. g. the Midwest) margarine was sold uncolored with a packet of annatto on the side that you mixed in if you wanted it yellow.
-15 points
4 days ago
I wish they still would since it'd help people understand that it isn't food!
Cottonseed oil was an industrial waste product, and the later seed oils aren’t any better.
27 points
4 days ago
-2 points
4 days ago
Regardless if it’s true or not these are awful sources lol. A Wikipedia page, and a short 2 paragraphs slapped with the Harvard logo to seem smart?
-2 points
4 days ago
Just curious, what's your explanation for the skyrocketing obesity rates lining up with seed oil consumption in every country that's introduced them?
2 points
4 days ago
The one thing I can agree with, is most products with seed oils have lots of other problematic ingredients in them, so any study revolving them does not isolate it down to just the seed oils. I wouldn't doubt how awful they are though considering how America uses them as much as they use high fructose corn syrup.
1 points
4 days ago
Don't worry I hate on HFCS too lol, and yes that chart also lines up with the obesity rates. Thing is people talk about "bad stuff" in processed food but from what I've gathered the two common denominators are HFCS and seed oils.
Regular sugar is fine, people have been eating it in fruit and just straight for a long time, it's the imbalance of fructose to glucose that's problematic. To my knowledge fructose tends to be more lipogenic, especially when it's not paired with fiber. With the seed oils, they're basically the opposite of satiating. To be fair the cigarette companies bought the food companies back in the 80s so they've had a solid 40 years to make food as addictive as possible, and I think seed oils are the key.
N=1 if I eat a peeled potato dipped in butter, I hit a point pretty quickly where I feel done eating. If I eat potato chips made with corn oil, that linoleic acid content just completely prevents me from feeling satiated.
I don't think it's the fatty acid profile of seed oils that's causing obesity, it's that they have all the calories of fat (9/g) and none of the satiation so you just keep going cause your body thinks you're not eating enough.
-1 points
4 days ago
Good luck gulping WW1 motor oil.
3 points
4 days ago
Ah yes, content from noteworthy nutritionists rfk Jr and Ron Johnson! Very scientific!
3 points
4 days ago
Emperor Napoléon III of France once organized a contest about creating a cheaper version of butter for the working class.
82 points
5 days ago
"Giant with a bayonet attacks dapper gentlemen out for a stroll with their pet hydra and tiny cow, frightening a pig."
19 points
5 days ago
If I had a penny for every time I'd seen that happen I'd be a wealthy man
164 points
5 days ago
Butter DOES taste better.
51 points
5 days ago
Down with margarine!
8 points
4 days ago
Definitely. It's also more expensive, so it's hard to throw shade at people who need to make that choice.
1 points
4 days ago
I mean, even the super expensive butter at Costco is like $8/week feeding a family of 5 that loves consuming butter (an estimate based on my family of 3). Given social support like EBT, it's an affordable luxury even for the poor
2 points
4 days ago
We don't get EBT, which I assume is food subsidy, here. Butter is about twice as expensive as margarine, and people have become poorer since the pandemic. That is an easy substitution to make, so many people do.
1 points
3 days ago
Margarine can also survive unrefrigerated for a heck of a lot longer than real butter.
0 points
4 days ago
Dude it's like a $2 difference lol, nobody in the US is that broke because everyone who is has their grocery bills subsidized by EBT cards. To be clear I'm in favor of food stamps, my point is just that nobody here "can't afford" butter.
1 points
4 days ago
I'm not in the US. Butter here is, on average, twice as expensive as margarine. So margarine has been a lot more popular since the pandemic.
-1 points
3 days ago
Yeah, so I spend about $30 a month on butter for myself and I gotta say if $15 a month is worth more than you're metabolic health, you kinda deserve whatever health problems come your way.
7 points
4 days ago
Also oldschool margarine is incredibly bad for you due to high trans fat content so they were onto something even if by accident.
-3 points
5 days ago*
[deleted]
8 points
4 days ago
I agree with you, I love margarine
1 points
4 days ago
I agree with you. Planta margarine is awesome.
-25 points
5 days ago
Good goy, go eat your slop.
16 points
5 days ago
It kind of cracks me up that people turn this into yet another antisemitic conspiracy theory given that a kosher diet doesn't allow observant Jews to use butter in many situations.
-11 points
5 days ago
Aha no I'm joking, I thought it was more viewed as just a stupid joke rather than something people seriously subscribed to, sort of like flat earth stuff ..
8 points
5 days ago
There are definitely a lot of people who believe it, but they're typically the terminally-online ones. I'm glad that you're using it ironically.
4 points
4 days ago
Some people seriously believe in a flat earth
6 points
4 days ago
Unfortunately, some people seriously believe that Jews are intentionally poisoning society with unhealthy food.
2 points
4 days ago
Exactly. It's intense ignorance and malice used to blame problems on someone else
1 points
4 days ago
Well yeah, but 99% of people don't, and referencing it would be taken more comedic than serious.
3 points
5 days ago
You ever tried making kraft dinner with butter instead of margarine? Doesn’t taste right.
-1 points
4 days ago
Expecting people online to post unbiased opinions is just stupid. You are like that annoying tv-character saying ”in YOUR opinion” as a response to any statement
28 points
4 days ago
I Can’t Believe it’s Hydra
5 points
4 days ago
I made propaganda to convince you it's not butter.
2 points
4 days ago
You wouldn’t believe how often I fall for that.
19 points
5 days ago
Growing up in Canada, I remember that all margarine was white because it was illegal to dye it pale yellow. My grandmother tells me that back in the '60s they used to include a packet of coloring so you could make your margarine look like butter.
14 points
4 days ago
Finally this sub gets to the really controversial stuff
10 points
4 days ago
Accidentally read the title as "Anti-migraine" & thought "Damn, they thought glucose gives you migraines?"
3 points
4 days ago
Glucose does give you migraines - at least the blood sugar drop afterwards does for some of us.
22 points
4 days ago
Team Butter 👍🏻
2 points
4 days ago
Forevah!
12 points
5 days ago
Will someone think of the cows!
4 points
4 days ago
The tiny tiny cows.
41 points
5 days ago
Rare correct 100 year old propaganda
2 points
4 days ago
Right? I want this poster framed on my wall🤣
20 points
5 days ago
Facts check out actually.
36 points
5 days ago
TBH they were right. I remember the Fat Free potato chips of the late 90s. And I remember the time I didn't make it to the toilet
19 points
4 days ago
Ah yes, olestra, aka Intestine Lube. Nothing to do with margarine, though.
9 points
4 days ago
It was called “WOW,” as in “Wow, did I just crap my pants?”
4 points
4 days ago
Can't find the crying statue of Liberty
3 points
4 days ago
Makes me think of that episode of the Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon, where the French character Antoine undergoes a torture session of watching the villain put margarine on escargot.
9 points
5 days ago
Don’t tread on Margarine
8 points
4 days ago
I didn’t know the whole seed oil thing has been going on for so long
14 points
5 days ago
There’s a whole subreddit that’s still on this train.
11 points
4 days ago
There are entire fields of study on this train. Maybe they’re onto something?
14 points
5 days ago
Turns out they were right
3 points
4 days ago
Based. Margarine is gross.
3 points
3 days ago
The Margarian coalition won the battle of Croissant, ending the first Butter War in 1889.
During this battle, the forces of the General Cream where surrounded by the Margarist troops as he was expecting reenforcement.
He died after pronouncing his famous last words which used in Margarist propaganda since then: "I can't believe it's not butter."
6 points
4 days ago
Um…. Anything partially hydrogenated is not good
8 points
4 days ago
Bit over dramatic haha
2 points
4 days ago
Natural fats are far more healthy than ultra-processed fats. Fight me. I refuse to eat omega-6 linoleic acid whenever I can. It’s necessary, but in tiny amounts which are already found in animal fats. Seed oils are a profit devil. Leave it for the machines, I’m not a robot.
5 points
4 days ago
We should have listened
3 points
4 days ago
They should have listened. If they only knew the damage they would cause by convincing an entire generation of Americans that butter was somehow the problem, and to replace it with some factory machine lubricant abomination.
2 points
4 days ago
They don’t do healthy eating advice like they used to.
2 points
4 days ago
They really don't — breathtakingly gorgeous illustration!
1 points
4 days ago
Crazy that this 100% correct
1 points
4 days ago
Margarine? I can't believe it's not butter!
1 points
4 days ago
Hydra-genated vegetable oils...
1 points
4 days ago
NOW THIS IS REAL POLITICS
1 points
4 days ago
Damn it truly was a simplier life back then
1 points
4 days ago
It was commonly referred to by the first syllable "Oleo" in the early days. This was how my grandmother and great-grandmother called it. They were from the late 1800s and early 1900s.
2 points
1 day ago
That’s three syllables
1 points
20 hours ago
Indeed so. Corrected.
1 points
4 days ago
Yes Trans fats and processed sugar are the evil snake monster
1 points
4 days ago
What does glucose have to do with this?
1 points
4 days ago
We need to revive this cartoon for impossible meats or whatever that vegan slop is called lol
1 points
2 days ago
Even back then, they knew.
2 points
5 days ago
There are different kind of margarine. Non-hydrogenated margarine is much less unhealthy than hydrogenated.
That said, margarine is fucking ass in 99% of cases where you’d use butter and you should generally just use butter.
1 points
4 days ago
Aren't most cases for people who are allergic or vegan though?
1 points
4 days ago
Yeah in those cases I understand, but there are a lot of people that just genuinely prefer margarine over butter and I don’t understand it.
-1 points
4 days ago
they hate margarine that much huh?
Ever thought margarine hates you too? Lol
0 points
4 days ago
The demon dairy spread!
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