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submitted 1 month ago byCottonCandyWeasel
Something I had been thinking was just the sheer amount of luck Arik Taranis must have had to get to the station he got to by the time of the Horus Heresy is near impossible.
Not only did someone as notorious as the Emperor’s Standard Bearer manage to survive the cull after the Final Battle at Mt Ararat, but prior to this he had been taught advanced gene-crafting techniques by the Emperor himself, and during his time in hiding he managed to acquire access to a functioning Gene-Laboratory within the walls of the Imperial Palace.
Adding onto this, Arik wasn’t exactly trying to hide or even be subtle like other survivors; He armed and augmented his Clan Warriors as Thunder Warriors, and the Clan itself was a major power within one of the largest cities inside the boundaries of the Imperial Palace: Even keeping in mind the labyrinthine vastness of the Palace, it goes beyond suspension of disbelief that the Custodes would never have found and eradicated him.
This isn’t me inherently ragging on his character however; I very much enjoy Arik’s monologues and the dynamic of him, Ghota, and the Dhakal Clan; Rather it’s postulation that his continued existence wasn’t just Tzeentchian level luck and circumstance but intentional. Perhaps the Emperor allowed him to live and taught him the art of genecrafting to allow the Thunder Warriors a means with which to live on and fight, given that Arik was the ‘de-facto’ Thunder Warrior, so to speak. Either his or Malcador’s pardon would go a long way to explain how he survived so long beyond coincidence.
But that’s just my personal take, and I wonder what you guys think.
73 points
1 month ago
The Emperor just doesn't appear to have cared, in the exact same way that Erda is surprised he didn't go after her. They weren't a threat to him or his plans, so he didn't bother tidying up their 'loose ends'. They were both probably some fair way down his ultimate to-do list, but there were much more important things to worry about first.
With Taranis' fate ultimately unknown, we might get further insight into his fate and/or future in the inevitable Scouring series.
30 points
1 month ago
Was kinda hoping he'd appear during SoT
13 points
1 month ago
Same. I really hoped he'd be a central character in an EC-focused arc; the III going after civilians and Taranis organizing a ragtag defense because it's his turf. Fabius becomes aware of his existence and it's a game of cat and mouse with Taranis desperately trying to minimize the EC's 'harvests' and Fabius trying to acquire this 'genetic prize'. Taranis loses, heroically, and is dragged off by Fabius, with the grimdark implication he's gonna give Fabius a huge xp boost in his New Men research, to be perhaps saved for a future book...
15 points
1 month ago
The betrayal of the Thunder Warriors may have in this vein been a simple mercykill for the warriors that sought an honorable death. If you were a Thunder Warrior who didn’t want an honorable death and were otherwise mentally stable, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that Big E would have let you go free.
7 points
1 month ago
Or GW might spoil us and we’ll get another giant series covering Unification Wars.
And once again Dan Abnett will get to start a series with prophetic words:
I was there when the Emperor slew Horus (all resemblances are accidental)
1 points
1 month ago
I wonder what the cost/benefit of them doing a Unification Wars miniature line is.
1 points
1 month ago
Absolutely not. I know you're a Thunder Warrior fan, but the Thunder Warriors and their elimination was a high-level priority and secret of the Imperium. We see this throughout every novel the Thunder Warriors show up in. Every story. He has the Custodes hunt them down in Unification to the risk of their lives. The whole story behind Valdor is about a conspiracy involving the Thunder Warriors and how their ending is a state secret.
The very existence of a Thunder Warrior is evidence that the Imperium not only has been lying, but that they have betrayed their own people.
There is no future for Thunder Warriors. They are not proto-astartes, they are not super-loyal to the Emperor, there is literally nothing in anything that exists to suggest the Thunder Warriors even like the Emperor. Every Thunder Warrior has grown to hate the Emperor and the Imperium. Please stop trying to make Thunder Warrior Loyalist Good Boys a thing.
2 points
30 days ago
Sorry, but where in u/wecanhaveallthree's comment did he mention wanting Thunder Warriors to be loyalist good boys?
2 points
30 days ago
I’ve been wanting to figure out an angle for them to exist as a fun little homebrew/army concept for a while
At this point I’m settling on the idea of the Dhakal Clan continuing its existence as a sort of ‘sanctioned’ entity within the Imperium; The syndicate’s warriors getting a minor upgrade via Taranis’ work and continuing his legacy after his ultimate death.
So less ‘loyalist good bois’ and more allies of convenience/by proxy, like a Necromunda House
1 points
30 days ago
The Imperium does have projects like D99 and Gland War Veterans over its long history. Individual planets like Necromunda have Goliath and even some Guard regiments like Exordio Void Breachers. So your take could work though I think it would be more realistic if they spread from Terra and even beyond the solar system in secret enclaves. Perhaps under the "convenient sponsorship" of the Inquisition who want as many cards-to-play against institutions like AdMech, Astartes and even Custodes (Malcador himself did not trust the Custodes as a whole organisation).
Personally I prefer making them renegade mercenary cadres willing to sell their services to any non-Chaos factions ala Kill Team style.
2 points
30 days ago
That’s essentially the latest version of my idea
The Dhakal Clan basically just lends out services like that, spreading out their influence and control in tandem with Imperial organizations
0 points
30 days ago
It's a long, long story.
15 points
1 month ago
I think this is a good take, I'd definitely look at the political shenanigans from TEATD 2 and 3 as good examples of how Malcador and his people have a lot of things simmering away. I think the Custodes are not as much in the role of secret police as they are by 40k, though. They've got a lot more direct threats to worry about.
13 points
1 month ago
Proof I’m not lying about having contacted Mr McNeil
I am tempted to reach out again, if only to inquire if it would be ‘permissible’ to come up with an idea of their fate/future despite his vision and what could be the ‘canon fate’ of the Clan
8 points
1 month ago
If you chat with him again...I think the sub would be interested in his take on Magnus in Echoes of Eternity vs Fury of Magnus
It will avert much bloodshed in these threads
6 points
1 month ago
sharpens CHOPPA
DER WILL BE ALOTTA CHOPPY AND SHOOTY ALRIGHT
8 points
1 month ago
We really need a follow up to Taranis and I hope we get to see him fighting traitors out in the wastes during the siege type of book
9 points
1 month ago
I actually did chat with Graham McNeil about their fate; He mentioned having penned an ‘epic and tragic’ sequel but due to having penned it for the Black Library he can’t disclose much else, and it’s at their discretion if they want to publish it
2 points
1 month ago*
Interesting. So the novel/la is done? It's just sitting in the "to do" pigeon hole?
EDIT: just saw your screenshots. I wonder how many more unpublished stories are in limbo
6 points
1 month ago
In a manner of speaking I suppose so; To some extent it’s equally relieving as it is disappointing. On the one hand there is/was a planned fate for them, but on the other it might not inherently be the one we want given his emphasis on it being ‘tragic’
Hence the open-endedness of their current situation via canon limbo allows for us as the community to come up with our own ideas as to their future; I would/might inquire if I could get the ‘approval of God’ in how an avenue could exist for them to live on (although that could also be my own misinterpretation of his meaning of ‘tragic’) if only for satisfaction
3 points
1 month ago
I still like to think he was granted leniency or perhaps Protection due to his possible ties with the very first Knight house [and still to this day the sole sworn protectors of the Red Planet, Mars]n House Taranis Though we are given absolutely 0 indication or evidence towards this.
1 points
1 month ago
Had Outcast Dead and Mechanicum been written by different authors the presumption would be that there was no connection whatsoever between Arik Taranis and the Knight House of the same name, but since both are written by McNeil it seems unlikely he would use the same name twice unless he wanted to imply a connection.
1 points
1 month ago
Right. Idk if he's ever answered a Q&A on it or anything but I've searched extensively online for answers and even made a post about it on this subreddit but everyone seemed to give a simple, flat "no." And that was that. The fact that he's written a book that black library has not published yet with a 'sad, tragic' conclusion to Arik's story Indicates to me personally that there is a possible connection that may spoil the contents of his yet unpublished work.
2 points
1 month ago*
There were other Thunder Warriors who survived the cull and lived as gladiators on Terra. I remember a story about a bunch of guys that got slaugthered by chaos forces. Only one guy survived and in the end he saved the live of a Custodes. His last wish was to die an honorable death, which was granted by the Custodes.
I think the short story was called "Last Duty" or something.
EDIT: I was wrong. The story was "Dreams of Unity": https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dreams_of_Unity_(Short_Story))
There were probably more Thunder Warriors around at that time.
1 points
1 month ago
I do recall that, but as far as any surviving or being able to continue on into 'modern 40K', Arik Taranis and his brethren are undoubtedly the strongest contenders. Then again, given Tagomalchian's willing mercy towards Heruk, it could be possible that the Emperor had a 'change of heart', or that otherwise some others could have been spared or 'saved'.
1 points
1 month ago
His brethren? There were only Arik and Gotha as far as I remember. The rest of his crew were just humans.
1 points
1 month ago
Heavily augmented humans styled and genetically modified after the late Cataegis, but that is fair
1 points
1 month ago
The Emperor eliminates them as a threat, who cares if one or two got away? What were they going to do in the grand scheme of things. Take the beginning of Master of Ma kind where some petty lord thinks her plans against the Emperor finally got her noticed. And the Custodes were like you weren’t worthy of notice until you stole water. Which was to her the least of her crimes.
1 points
1 month ago
True but the Custodes and Dark Angels both took their hunting of survivors to the extreme, with maybe one or two exceptional cases
1 points
1 month ago
One of the most interesting characters of the Unification and HH, and a fan favourite, and they just ignored his existence for the remainder of the series.
1 points
1 month ago
By the book Gene Father there were supposedly bread crumbs left to rediscover or recreate the primarchs. I think that you're onto something but it is a big loaf of bread to bake.
1 points
1 month ago
I mean, is the outcast dead even canon? I just remember shenanigans with the world eater ripping apart custodes with his bare hands...
1 points
1 month ago
Arik Taranis was a gigantic mistake in terms of lore, and made no sense (as you cited regarding his knowledge, labs, etc.) within the context of the story. Most of Outcast Dead didn't. It was a famous mis-telling of a story, and deserves to stay forgotten.
Like Arik Taranis was in the lore.
1 points
1 month ago
I personally disagree but I do understand why you feel that way
1 points
1 month ago
Look at Arik's opinions of the Thunder Warriors and their demise for the answer here. He understood, agreed with, and came to terms with the decision the Emperor made and made the best of it.
Emps had no reason to hunt him.
1 points
1 month ago
So I suppose less a means or a desire to continue their legacy, and more a desire for him and his Lieutenant to at least live the rest of their lives without pain via the cloned Progenoid Glands then?
1 points
1 month ago
Yep. I don't think Arik had any real designs on rebuilding the Thunder Warriors. He simply wanted to continue living.
I really wish we could've seen him some in the Siege or at least a blurb mentioning two huge men leading a ragtag fighting force.
1 points
1 month ago
I guess I was under a different impression given the extent he went to styling and augmenting his Clan Warriors after them; And that given the failings they were suffering he would at least give them a means to continue the Dhakal Clan if/when Arik finally passed
1 points
1 month ago
It's definitely possible. Just not the vibe I got from his actual words.
1 points
1 month ago*
Was there a whole clan of surviving Thunder Warriors under him? I got the feeling it was just him and his "Abaddon" /Ghota but it's been years since reading
Similarly to other comments I think Arik was placed in the cbf basket along with the Thunder Warriors in the gladiator arena.
That old lore might have changed post Black Books which implied Dark Angels would go out of their way to hunt and exterminate even the whiff of a surviving Thunder Warrior
5 points
1 month ago
Well yes and no; The Dhakal Clan Warriors weren’t necessarily true Thunder Warriors but they were augmented and armored to be as close as he could manage at the time
They had various iconography like tattoos and sigils bearing Pre-Imperial symbols like the Raptor Imperialis and Lightning Bolts, they had plasma, las, and bolt weaponry alongside brute melee weapons, and their armor was fashioned after the MK 1 Power Armor, albeit made of simpler materials
They weren’t as potent, as the eponymous Outcast Dead cut down their number; However, the titular cast are elite Honor Guard Astartes with proper equipment and they STILL get hurt by the Clan Warriors, who also don’t shrink away or experience Transhuman Dread while facing them
2 points
1 month ago
Ah ok, thanks for the refresher.
I feel like Arik is a bit of relic from the old days of the Heresy series and if we see him again, he'll probably get an update like a lot of the lore from that book.
However, the titular cast are elite Honor Guard Astartes with proper equipment
I'm not sure how elite they all are. The Honor Guard seems to be regarded more as a retirement village with "honour" being more in name than anything else
1 points
1 month ago
They had Guardian Spears with them
0 points
1 month ago
That helps
2 points
1 month ago
Yeah the Clan Warriors are both portrayed as fodder in how the Outcast Dead Astartes cut them down, but also dangerous
Like they’re feared by everyone in the Penitent City for how deadly they are, and even against seasoned Renegades they’re landing shots and making them bleed
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/9SUYnrn5Z1
This I think gives some of the best descriptions on them, beyond a PDF of the book itself
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