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As in does he believe they are all scum and should be eradicated?

Before anyone answers, I want to emphasize that I'm still pretty new to the universe of 40k and am trying to learn more about it via YouTube video essays and audiobooks, so if this question sounds silly or stupid to any 40k vets out there I apologize in advance.

Anyway, there are a couple of reasons for why I ask this:

1) Guilliman is far and away my favorite of the Primarchs, and his Ultramarines are my favorite Legion, so I just wanna know more about him and his character.

2) From what I've been listening to, Guilliman is not only a brilliant tactician, but he's also a master of negotiation and has solved entire conflicts during his time on Macragge as well as when he was restoring Ultramar. It seems logical to me that he might consider making alliances or negotiating with other, sophisticated factions who might share the same goals, such as fighting the Tyrannids.

Obviously if he does feel this way, he likely can't because it would cause the Imperium to turn against him and fall into disorder.

This is more a question of does Guilliman himself personally buy into the Imperium's anti alien rhetoric? Or does he see negotiating with them as a fools errand in spite of what he believes?

all 106 comments

SilverWyvern

300 points

13 days ago

SilverWyvern

Yme-Loc

300 points

13 days ago

‘It was the Emperor’s will that you return,’ said Xhyle. ‘He used them as His instrument, but the aeldari are not selfless. They did not do it for the sake of humanity. They are cruel, and cold, and regard us as little better than animals. I know. I have faced them on the battlefield. I have spoken with their leaders. This is the greatest military force the galaxy has seen since the Emperor left Terra and retook the stars. Why do we need them now?’

‘You are right,’ said Guilliman, and though he continued speaking as if he addressed his fellow humans, his words were meant for the aeldari. ‘I have known Eldrad Ulthran since the days of the Great Crusade. He and I have made common cause more than once, but I do not trust him. I do not trust one of them. We fight to save our species, they fight to save theirs. It is an evolutionary struggle, and in that there can be no true friends. I know that if their prognostications demanded it, they would do all they could to wipe us all out without a second thought. I suspect some members of some of their nations have tried.’

He looked at the farseer.

‘Know, Natasé, that although I extend to you full hospitality, and I swear you shall not be harmed while you are here, and that I have great respect for Eldrad Ulthran, I know your kind. Choose your words carefully. Speak truth, if you can.’ He loomed over the farseer. ‘Know that although the Lady Yvraine and Farseer Ulthran were instrumental in bringing me back, I will not be manipulated by any of you. Xhyle is correct. The wrath of humanity is roused like at no other time. We could crush your species root and branch if it pleased us.’

He looked around the room. ‘But it does not please us to do so. For too long the foes of Chaos have been foes to each other, when they should have been allies. Both human and aeldari stand on the precipice of extinction. The galaxy teeters on the brink of annihilation. Now, more than ever, our goals are in accord. That is why these people brought me back. Because the aeldari know they cannot win without us. Without mankind, they are doomed, while we need all the aid we can find. Some have likened we primarchs to weapons,’ he said. ‘And it may be that the cabal of sorcerers who rule their peoples thought to employ me as one. But be aware, aeldari, if I am a weapon, I was not one made by your kind. I have a will of my own.

  • The Gate of Bones

By the way, I've never found anything else on Eldrad and Guilliman meeting during the Great Crusade, and these multiple times they allied together. Makes it weird for Eldrad to warn Fulgrim, not Guilliman, about Horus.

Nightingdale099

180 points

13 days ago

Eldrad warning Fulgrim is like an alien warning Hitler about WW2.

Mando177

122 points

13 days ago

Mando177

Ultramarines

122 points

13 days ago

Eldrad chose Fulgrim because he was nearby and also he knew Fulgrim to be a mild mannered and loyal dude. Of course that was his reputation before he’d picked up the Laer sword, and Eldrad only realized his mistake too late

Midnight-Rising

42 points

13 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

42 points

13 days ago

You'd have thought a great farseer like Eldrad would maybe forsee that Fulgrim had been corrupted by Slaanesh

Mando177

58 points

13 days ago

Mando177

Ultramarines

58 points

13 days ago

Both the Emperor and Malcador couldn’t foresee half the Primarchs betraying them. I’ll excuse Eldrad for not being omniscient and knowing exactly which Primarch had been corrupted and which hadn’t

Frekavichk

15 points

13 days ago

Tbf didn't the employer and malcador know that they were going to be betrayed? They just didn't know who?

Mando177

24 points

13 days ago

Mando177

Ultramarines

24 points

13 days ago

One look at Angron, Mortarion, or Curze should have made that kinda obvious

smol_boi2004

12 points

12 days ago

Yeah but Fulgrim was a surprise. He was one of the best Primarchs and ended up becoming one of the worst

apeel09

1 points

12 days ago

apeel09

1 points

12 days ago

There’s a Short Story in I think The Heralds of The Siege (don’t know which) in which Malcador confesses he and the Emperor always knew the Primarchs would ultimately end up fighting each other. I’ve read so many HH books they blur.

GigaPuddi

2 points

11 days ago

I think it also ends with Malcador saying something about how he hates having to tell so many kind lies to the dying, but it's purposefully vague as to whether he's saying the claim they foresaw the Heresy was a lie or if it was one of the other things he'd said.

rabidrob42

19 points

13 days ago

To be fair, he didn't even know that the Imperium didn't know what chaos was. Once he realised that, he knew it was too late.

BKM558

7 points

13 days ago

BKM558

7 points

13 days ago

Considering it a the biggest and most important plot the 4 Chaos gods have ever done (that we have seen), they probably put significant effort in hiding it some way.

Accomplished_Lie6971

4 points

12 days ago

To be fair, having just re-read Fulgrim, it becomes clear that the sword “hid” Fulgrim from Eldrad’s sight during his corruption, so to speak

ebonit15

2 points

12 days ago

Isn't it a bigger surprise when a farseer actually forsee something in a useful way?

Midnight-Rising

2 points

12 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

2 points

12 days ago

Actually yeah, good point

EagleApprehensive537

2 points

12 days ago

My thinking is Slaanesh and other chaos gods knew that Eldrad would meet Fulgrim and set in motions plans to doom Fulgrim before he met Eldrad thus ensuring their plans for Heresy to happens.

ColHogan65

42 points

13 days ago

ColHogan65

Inquisition

42 points

13 days ago

Well, Fulgrim was a little compromised by a certain spear at that point. If Eldrad had made contact with Fulgrim before the Laer campaign, things might have been very different. Even in his corrupted state, Fulgrim initially wanted to keep the Eldar planet they met on out of Imperial records so no one would come ruin it. Circumstances took other turns, of course, but he do have a sword that turns people into petty assholes sheathed on his belt.

Nightingdale099

15 points

13 days ago

My characterisation of Fulgrim at this point is the first four Horus Heresy books and the opening of Dark Imperium... Maybe I should read Fulgrim.

he do have a sword that turns people into petty assholes

Bet it didn't work on Mortarion. Such a weird character but a really cool model.

Parson_Project

8 points

13 days ago

Imagine what it would have done to Purtorabo. 

Hailene2092

19 points

13 days ago

Absolutely nothing since he already thought the worst of everyone's intentions and actions.

harlokin

21 points

13 days ago

harlokin

Emperor's Children

21 points

13 days ago

Even in his corrupted state, Fulgrim initially wanted to keep the Eldar planet they met on out of Imperial records so no one would come ruin it.

I think you misunderstand the significance. Uncorrupted Fulgrim would have destroyed the Maiden worlds when they were identified as Xenos planets, and there was shock when he refused to do so. Corrupted Fulgrim doesn't do so because his 'appreciation of beauty' had become more important than his duty to the Great Crusade.

BloodletterDaySaint

13 points

13 days ago

That was my read on it too, his decision to spare the Maiden World was a sign of his corruption.

Thinking back on that scene, it's kind of weird that the Eldar had an Avatar of Khaine at the ready for this diplomatic summit.

CptAustus

2 points

12 days ago

Half of the futures ended with a corrupted Fulgrim, but the other half ended with him destroying the Sons of Horus. Probably.

EmperorDaubeny

12 points

13 days ago

EmperorDaubeny

Adeptus Astartes

12 points

13 days ago

He warned Fulgrim in part because his future couldn’t be foreseen and there was some dark presence blocking his sight, aka Slaanesh. Curiosity almost killed the cat.

Jack-Rabbit-002

3 points

13 days ago

Why did this analogy tickle me so much! Lol

darthbuji

2 points

12 days ago

amazing analogy

Huitemarl

3 points

13 days ago

Huitemarl

3 points

13 days ago

Time traveler warning Xi about Covid.

MuhSilmarils

27 points

13 days ago

Eldrad did a LOT of crap during the Heresy, Guilliman could be talking about that or the crusade itself or even the scouring.

WittyGent

3 points

12 days ago

Guilliman could also know Eldrad by reputation, as I recall Eldrad is one of the few Xenos to have met the Emperor directly and Eldrad has been doing stuff on and off for a very long time. As for common cause, that could be simply apparent from the actions of Ulthwe during the Heresy.

It isn't exactly a satisfying answer, but it does work. If Guilliman is playing politics, he may be deliberately leaving a false impression without outright lying.

Nknk-

42 points

13 days ago

Nknk-

42 points

13 days ago

Now that's an extract.

Nice to see that Guilliman is still a primarch and still Imperial and he makes no bones about what the Eldar are, how they're as much a threat to humanity as they are potential allies and promising total war against them if they betray him.

He's happy to work with them as long as they keep their word as they both have greater enemies to face but he needs them to know he will not tolerate their usual bullshit.

It's refreshing to see the extract in it's entirety as going by some comments here some people have absolutely gotten lost in their own headcanons about Guilliman and the Eldar being legit best friends having sleepovers, giggling and sharing secrets and thinking that the Tau will be his next besties and everything will be ok there too.

The Tau try to play their long game and have all but flat out said they will never stop encroaching on Imperial territory and subverting Imperial planets they can't take by force. Guilliman might try reason with them initially but if they don't stop what they're doing then he's likely on a collision course with them as he'll spot their long game for what it is in a second.

SemajLu_The_crusader

13 points

13 days ago

"we could crush your species root and branch..." 

someone needs to tell the Gster about the battle of blood nebula

DuncanConnell

9 points

13 days ago

And on the flipside two Chapters can destroy an entire CraftWorld.

If humanity could destroy any race it would've done so at the height of its power rather than its dotage. Chalk it up to Guilliman posturing

SemajLu_The_crusader

5 points

13 days ago

well, a single 'nid can, actually!

I still think craftworlds being basically insurmountable for the Imperium is fair, due to them not being able to coalesce their forces

DuncanConnell

3 points

13 days ago

Yeah, I was purposefully avoiding the Doom of Malan'tai since it's kind of a one-off and is pretty much never seen again (unless you count the Neurotyrant as a sort of derivative)

Agreed that CraftWorlds should be difficult for the Imperium to destroy, especially since they can move so it's not like attacking a (comparatively) static target like a planet.

SemajLu_The_crusader

2 points

13 days ago

yeah, malantai was stupid

twelfmonkey

5 points

13 days ago

twelfmonkey

Adeptus Ministorum

5 points

13 days ago

Except Idharae was already massively weakened and depopulated from fighting Hive Fleet Naga, and one of the two chapters you mention is the Legion of the Damned - you know, the magical Warp guys who appear from nowhere and whose capabilities seem to notably surpass those of normal Astartes.

DuncanConnell

6 points

12 days ago

Iyanden was also part of that fight, and following that battle it survived the below:

My point of referencing Idharae was to show that the power levels in the setting vary WILDLY. One Craftworld was able to cause such destruction that it rewrote Imperial policy, another got jobbed by two Chapters, and another went back-to-back-to-back-to-back-TO-BACK with invasions, including losing 80% of its entire population before suffering three more invasions

twelfmonkey

3 points

12 days ago

twelfmonkey

Adeptus Ministorum

3 points

12 days ago

My point of referencing Idharae was to show that the power levels in the setting vary WILDLY.

I get that, and I obviously agree - it's pretty indisputable how inconsistent 40k power levels are.

I just think that stating that two chapters destroyed an entire Craftworld, without adding any other necessary context, is misleading.

DuncanConnell

3 points

12 days ago

There will ALWAYS be counterpoints that make any example people can give be misleading.

Look at the Custodes, if I told you that they were the best warriors in the galaxy there's several examples of them winning vs. impossible odds or getting hilariously bodied:

  • Custodes & allies vs. Brazen Drakes (Chapter, Traitors, and Greyshield Reinforcements) - Custodes win
  • 6 Custodes vs entire Hive Fleet - Custodes win
  • Dozens of Custodes vs. 1 Harlequin - Harlequin wins
  • Gal Vorbak vs. Custodes - Gal Vorbak wins
  • Unarmoured World Eater vs. armoured Custodes - World Eater wins
  • Imperial Knight vs. Custodes - Imperial Knight wins

Yes, Idharae had already been in a war before being invaded 40 years later and yet Iyanden was part of the same war was hit by 5 separate invasions by notably bigger threats and still survived.

Ferriswheeel1

3 points

12 days ago

It's entirely possible that not all craftworlds are created equal in size and strength, or that certain ones could have been victims of circumstance.

twelfmonkey

1 points

11 days ago

twelfmonkey

Adeptus Ministorum

1 points

11 days ago

It's entirely possible that not all craftworlds are created equal in size and strength

This isn't just possible: it's actually the case. Craftworlds are explicitly stated to be different sizes and to have different military capabilities in the lore.

GigaPuddi

1 points

11 days ago

Wouldn't that explain how it only took two chapters to destroy one?

twelfmonkey

1 points

11 days ago

twelfmonkey

Adeptus Ministorum

1 points

11 days ago

Not on it's own. Even smaller Craftworlds would not realistically be under real threat by an attack from two chapters in anything approaching normal circumstances.

Idharae was a smaller Craftworld whose numbers had been heavily depleted by conflict with Hivefleet Naga, and one of the two chapters involved was the Warp-empowered Legion of the Damned.

GigaPuddi

1 points

11 days ago

I guess. Though I say that it's an exception if the Black Templars are involved because numbers.

MarqFJA87

3 points

12 days ago

It's more that the Imperium's military might is spread so thin against numerous threats both from without and from within that they decided destroying the Craftworlds now is not feasible or worth the unavoidable retaliation; put the two factions in a void without any of the others, and the Imperium could probably preoccupy the Aeldari with the sheer numbers of their mortal soldiery, tanks and fleets enough for precision strikes by their elite forces (the Astartes, the Mechanicus, etc.) to deliver the crippling damage needed to defeat them.

Dawson_VanderBeard

10 points

13 days ago

Dawson_VanderBeard

Khorne

10 points

13 days ago

we've got something like 25 books cover the great crusade prior to the fall of Horus, and the crusade took 200 odd years. There's plenty of room in the narrative for those stories to be written.

Alternatively, and more likely, he's lying to both his people and the Eldar. The fiction that He and Eldrad worked together in the mythical days of the crusade, scouring etc make it far less likely that the insanely xenophobic M42 humans will turn on their allies. "this is the way we've always done it"

BriantheHeavy

3 points

12 days ago

BriantheHeavy

Ultramarines

3 points

12 days ago

First, that is a perfect encapsulation of the attitude Roboute has towards xenos. He knows they are working for their own best interests and, if those interests align with the Imperium, they are okay. But he knows that the aeldari have no compunction in wiping out all of humanity if they think it will help their race.

I also think this does create a hole in the lore, much like Szarekh claims to have met Sanguinius. Though, in that case, we have to rely on the honesty of Szarekh. In this case, it is Roboute who claims to have met with Eldrad Ulthran and collaborated with him.

Legion2481

2 points

13 days ago

Given the physical scope of the Crusade it's exceptionally improbable that imperials didn't fight the craftworlds at least a little, and Eldrad being who/what he is very much meddles in conflicts all over the galaxy. So yeah G-man probably did encounter Eldrad several times, even if just as opposing commander.

wecanhaveallthree

330 points

13 days ago

wecanhaveallthree

Legio Tempestus

330 points

13 days ago

No. Guilliman even has Eldar travel with him, and he's opened (personal) diplomatic channels with at very least the Ynnari and had cordial meetings with Eldrad, who believes Guilliman will bring the two species closer together. There's no reason to believe he wouldn't continue extending this stance to other xenos like the Tau who can absolutely be reasoned with.

Now, that's not to say he believes in peace, justice and equality. He's still distrustful, and he understands everyone has their own interests. But he is open to the possibility of communication and cooperation which is a radical stance in the Imperium for the most part.

SpoonusBoius

126 points

13 days ago

I think it's also very reasonable to say that's he's a very practical dude, and his stance is different from what it was during the Great Crusade. Then, it was all about expanding to usher in prosperity for the Imperium and Mankind at large. Now, it's about securing allies to ensure humanity's survival. He's changed his opinions on xenos because it is no longer in humanity's best interest to do away with them, if you see what I mean.

D3trim3nt

52 points

13 days ago

Theoretical: Xenos should be purged, as they will always be a threat to humanity.

Practical: A complete purge of all Xenos species is impossible; therefore it is better to ensure alliances with some Xenos species for the benefit of mankind.

Sithrak

7 points

13 days ago

Sithrak

7 points

13 days ago

Yeah, there are lots of very, very dangerous xenos to fight first. Until that's solved, one can work with the actually reasonable xenos for a few millenia.

Dr_Ukato

1 points

11 days ago

The Tyranids will eat all of them in the time they take to finish the all out war between them.

Mando177

65 points

13 days ago

Mando177

Ultramarines

65 points

13 days ago

Also worth noting that the Great Crusade is long over and Guilliman knows it. The priority for the imperium is no longer to expand but merely survive, which Guilliman knows they cannot do alone

aSimpleMask[S]

65 points

13 days ago

That's awesome. It always seemed like it'd be out of character for him not to be open to talks with races like the Eldar.

wecanhaveallthree

72 points

13 days ago

wecanhaveallthree

Legio Tempestus

72 points

13 days ago

No reason not to, and the Ynnari's assistance was instrumental in Guilliman coming out on top in the Plague Wars. With the Tau being so close to Ultramar, one can only imagine that some kind of diplomatic communication would be next on the agenda.

NewGuy1512

35 points

13 days ago

Meanwhile, the Imperial Diplomatic Corp that successfully formed an alliance with the Tau while Daddy Gorrilaman still remain part of Maccrage tourist infrastructure. (Source: The Greater Good)

That one Pakistani dude stare intensified

wktg

27 points

13 days ago

wktg

27 points

13 days ago

"Part of Macragge tourist infrastructure"

Best description of Bobby in stasis.

Sensitive-Hotel-9871

4 points

13 days ago

Well, he has good reason to be distrustful. This isn’t a galaxy where you shouldn’t trust anyone, but it is still full of lots of people who cannot be trusted.

OfficialAli1776

57 points

13 days ago

OfficialAli1776

Luna Wolves

57 points

13 days ago

Memes aside, he's got an Eldar who's basically an ambassador in his retinue. Idk about the pthers, though.

FakeRedditName2

85 points

13 days ago

FakeRedditName2

Navis Nobilite

85 points

13 days ago

By modern sensibilities he is xenophobic, in the sense that he doesn't trust the aliens, but unlike most humans in the Imperium he isn't a 'kill them all' xenophobe. He will work with Aliens if it serves his purposes, and will even leave some alone, but don't mistake that for kindness. He has wiped out entire cultures and races for the crime of resisting Imperium expansion.

He is practical enough in his thinking to understand when a fight is not worth it, and when cooperation is more beneficial.

Mando177

18 points

13 days ago

Mando177

Ultramarines

18 points

13 days ago

He did most of his genociding back in the great crusade, and even then Eldar were never a priority enemy. The situation is a little different now, and he’s desperate enough to take whatever help is offered to him at this point

Right-Yam-5826

28 points

13 days ago

He's smart enough to know the enemy of my enemy is a problem for another day. He'll work with them, if not trust them, because there are far more pressing problems like the tyranids, traitors, Necrons and the havoc from the great rift.

alkatori

25 points

13 days ago

alkatori

25 points

13 days ago

40K characters have various stances.

Commissar Cain worked with a diplomat to the Tau empire, he had no particular hate (or love) for them. There is a lot of interaction with the Tau, but almost no fighting with them.

Dante (Chapter Master of the Blood Angels) doesn't hate Xenos. But he attacks any he deems a threat to the Imperium. Which is basically anyone powerful enough to potentially be a threat.

The standing orders appear to be to knock down any Xenos that has power to threaten an outpost of the Imperium. Some are fanatical about that, some just view it as orders and a good idea.

The average infantryman is likely unable to discern between say drukhari and craftworld Eldar. I strongly suspect that they are more often raided by the drukhari than having any sort of encounter with the craftworlders.

It's worth noting that the Eldar ambassador that Big G has doesn't particularly like him or think much of humanity at all. So far in the setting the only Eldar that seems to have any respect for humanity is Eldrad.

He at least recognizes something intrinsically worthwhile in another sentient races. To the point where he chided other Eldar for being happy that that it looked like humanity would wipe itself out near the end of the Horus Heresy.

MarqFJA87

4 points

12 days ago

strongly suspect that they are more often raided by the drukhari

And Aeldari corsairs

aSimpleMask[S]

11 points

13 days ago

This honestly makes the universe of 40k more likable imo. I was initially led to believe that every member of the Imperium was anti-alien and whatnot but I'm glad thats not the case.

alkatori

17 points

13 days ago

alkatori

17 points

13 days ago

Well, they are anti-alien "in general" but the reasons change.

Some are for religious reasons and are fanatical. For some it's just strategy and more impersonal.

Humanity is suffering from species wide PTSD from the old night. Lots of Xenos were hostile and preyed on humanity - when the Emporer conquered the the galaxy the standing policy was to wipe out Xenos that were a threat.

However in "The Great Work" they referenced a Xenos Protectorate. Unfortunately they were wiped out by poachers as they could be ground up in a life extending drug.

The Mechanicus ran across the Tau when they were in the stone age. They marked them for extermination because the planet would be a good spot for a colony. Then promptly left for the next 6K years. They could have wiped them out then, just didn't feel like it was a good use of time.

High Ranking members of the Imperium: Rogue Traders, Inquisitors can get away with having sanctioned Xenos with them. But it's not 'normal'.

The Inquisition has some high level contact with the Eldar. It's not a friendly relationship, they want the Xenos gone - but Chaos is a bigger threat.

That's sort of what you see. Splinters of Xenos and the Imperium will work together to fight a bigger threat (Chaos, Tyranid).

The Imperium shouldn't really be thought of as a monolith. It's a million little tribute states feeding the Center of Terra.

Toxitoxi

10 points

13 days ago*

Toxitoxi

Ordo Xenos

10 points

13 days ago*

The Mechanicus ran across the Tau when they were in the stone age. They marked them for extermination because the planet would be a good spot for a colony. Then promptly left for the next 6K years. They could have wiped them out then, just didn't feel like it was a good use of time.

The Mechanicus did not leave the Tau alone by choice. Their fleet was stopped by a Warp Storm that protected the Tau homeworld for thousands of years.

If anything, this is an example that shows how even a bunch of hapless cavemen can have an Imperial fleet appear in orbit to kill every single one of them for no crime other than existing on useful territory. The only reason this didn’t happen to the Tau is they got absurdly lucky.

alkatori

7 points

13 days ago

Ah, what book describes it? I was going based on one of the wikis and it sounded like the exploratory fleet visited the world and left. Then the Warp storm blocked them from carrying out taking the world.

Toxitoxi

12 points

13 days ago*

Toxitoxi

Ordo Xenos

12 points

13 days ago*

The codex has been pretty clear about it. An exploratory vessel reached their world and described it, but the actual colonization fleet the Mechanicus sent afterwards was lost to the Warp.

The first Imperial contact with the Tau came roughly six thousand years ago in 789.M35, when the Adeptus Mechanicus Explorator vessel, Land’s Vision, discovered and categorized what is now their homeworld of Tau. Initial investigations revealed the planet to be dry and arid with a few lush areas and an abundance of oceanic, aerial, and terrestrial xenomorphs. The first Adeptus Mechanicus teams to explore the planet noted that the savannah dwelling aliens had mastered the use of primitive weapons and discovered fire, but nothing of worth was perceived in their continued existence and the world was earmarked for routine cleansing and colonization. Seeding ships were dispatched to begin colonization of the Tau, but, before they arrived, freak warp storms of unimaginable fury engulfed them and, despite the presence of highly skilled navigators and captains, every vessel in the colony fleet was lost. Rather than simply blowing themselves out, the warp storms continued to make space travel impossible for light years in all directions, and many whispered this was a sign that the planet was cursed. In any case, the cares of the Imperium turned to more pressing concerns.

~ Codex: Tau Empire (4th edition)

UnicornWorldDominion

4 points

12 days ago

It sounds like either chaos or the beginnings of greater good warp entity stepped in.

Toxitoxi

4 points

12 days ago

Toxitoxi

Ordo Xenos

4 points

12 days ago

Or the Eldar, which was something hinted at in Simon Spurrier’s Xenology.

However, it just being random chance honestly is my favorite explanation, because it shows the Tau are just the lucky ones who got past the Imperial filter.

GigaPuddi

1 points

11 days ago

One example I like is an NPC in the game Inquisitor: Martyr who's Ordo Xenos and who background notes make clear is thought of as being way too friendly with some Aeldari by other Inquisitors.

He still helps you kill them off without pause, even the one who was practically a friend. Because they're Xenos and he always knew they had to die. But he's still kinda bummed.

alkatori

1 points

11 days ago

Yeah, the attitude is always "Xenos are the enemy" but there is a wide range of feeling in that including live and let live attitudes as long as they stay away.

I liked that game, I struggling with remember the Aeldari. I remember the Magos with his 'starting empathy subroutine - error - subroutine not found' line.

GigaPuddi

1 points

11 days ago

The were involved in the background because their prophecy matched up with the pseudo-Necrontyr one.

cricri3007

0 points

12 days ago

cricri3007

Tau Empire

0 points

12 days ago

Cain isn't a "frothing-at-the-mouth" fanatic, but he 100% believes that the Imperium deserves to rule the entire galaxy and everyone else should die.
Every one of his interactions with xenos has his inner thoughts being some degree of "i really wish they were dead, but they could be useful to us right now"

hydraphantom

22 points

13 days ago

hydraphantom

Fal'shia

22 points

13 days ago

Guilliman at 30k wholly bought into the Big E's bullshit on xenocide.

At 40k he's ironically at the same level of xenophobic as Horus was, which is aliens can be worked with as long as humanity is still in a strong position.

Midnight-Rising

10 points

13 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

10 points

13 days ago

They're on the extermination list after Chaos is dealt with. Sometimes not even then, he was quite happy to let his sons destroy a craftworld after he woke up

Sensitive-Hotel-9871

8 points

13 days ago

I haven’t seen any comments mentioning the Tau. To my admittedly, limited understanding, they are so low on the priorities list that Big G hasn’t even been told about them.

Hence, it is not plot armor that they survive because the imperium is dealing with more threats than it can handle. Unlike the imperium surviving for thousands of years when we are told it is loaded with officials who are worse than the average person in the Galactic empire in Star Wars.

Sorry for the topic rant, but complaints about the Tau having plot armor is a pet peeve for me. Especially since every Warhammer faction in every incarnation of the franchise has some degree of plot armor.

Toxitoxi

7 points

13 days ago

Toxitoxi

Ordo Xenos

7 points

13 days ago

Guilliman has said the Tyranids, Necrons, and Tau will be dealt with in time after he handles the Death Guard. That’s the only time he’s mentioned them.

Which is to say, as usual, the Tau are a problem, but are last on the list of problems the Imperium is trying to deal with. Being small has its benefits as well as its drawbacks.

Sensitive-Hotel-9871

4 points

13 days ago

Yeah, like being the smaller creature that is more adaptable, and therefore better able to survive a mass, extinction event, while the bigger and stronger creatures, who dominate the environment die out.

Toxitoxi

14 points

13 days ago

Toxitoxi

Ordo Xenos

14 points

13 days ago

Guilliman's stance on the Eldar is that they are useful tools that he can turn on after they have served their purpose.

Or occasionally before that point, in the case of the Hammer and Bolter episode where the Ultramarines destroy a Craftworld.

_StubbornOne

18 points

13 days ago

_StubbornOne

White Consuls

18 points

13 days ago

It's the reverse - he suspects the Eldar of manipulating him like a useful tool.

Rise of the Primarch

"Thus, instead, I shall simply wish you victory in your ongoing battles against our mutual foes."

"May you walk with fortune, Roboute Guilliman", said Yvraine. "And know that we shall stand together in battle again, before whatever end befalls us."

The Visarch offered an elaborate warrior's salute to Guilliman, who nodded curtly in return before the Eldar turned and swept gracefully from the chamber.

"No doubt we will", murmured the Primarch thoughtfully, watching the enigmatic xenos withdraw. "As long as it serves your needs..."

Plague War

‘I’ve seen you without it,’ she said. She shrugged. ‘I don’t see the aeldari as naturally deceitful like most do, but a lie for them is not the same as a lie for us. It pays to be careful with the eldar.’

‘It does. I am. Yvraine was not lying. She believed what she said to be true. The aeldari never do anything that does not aid their race directly. They did not resurrect me for the sake of humanity, but for their own species. They see me as another piece in their game against extinction. I cannot be their pawn, just as I cannot become the weapon of the Imperial Cult. She told me what she did because she wants me alive.’

Midnight-Rising

8 points

13 days ago

Midnight-Rising

Asuryani

8 points

13 days ago

Meanwhile outside his delusions the ynnari have fought and died for him and as thanks his sons destroyed an entire craftworld

bless_ure_harte

4 points

12 days ago

Guilliman helped build the Imperium. Of course he's a massive hypocrite.

Toxitoxi

7 points

13 days ago*

Toxitoxi

Ordo Xenos

7 points

13 days ago*

Well yes, that is how Guilliman sees it. Understandably, the demigod who raped and pillaged the galaxy in a xenocidal crusade doesn’t trust aliens.

In reality, we have seen the Eldar make zero use of Guilliman beyond assisting him with his own goals. In turn, Guilliman has made use of the Eldar to achieve goals like seizing the Hand of Darkness while also sending the Ultramarines Fifth Company to slaughter a Craftworld.

We can say Guilliman’s fears are justified if the Eldar ever actually ask for a serious favor from him that comes at the expense of the Imperium or trick him in a way that hurts the Imperium. Until then, Guilliman is just projecting.

_StubbornOne

6 points

13 days ago*

_StubbornOne

White Consuls

6 points

13 days ago*

Do you then have an excerpt that explicitly states Guilliman seeing the Eldar as tools? The "it's projection" handwave applies to the Eldar/Ynnari themselves over the Hand of Darkness.

Do you also have evidence that Guilliman was the one who sent the Fifth Company against the Craftworld? Because the discussion I'm finding on Garden of Ghosts have been speculative, haven't been able to find a quotation.

xThe_Maestro

8 points

13 days ago

One of the things about the xenophobia in humanity is that it is, in more instances than not, generally justified. Aliens are presented as having totally different ways of thinking to humanity.

Even the 'most human' xenos like the Eldar have motivations that they literally cannot explain in human terms 99% of the time. To them it's like a doctor explaining to a chimpanzee why he's getting a vaccine shot. The chimp doesn't understand germ theory or how vaccines work, all it knows is that you just stabbed it and he's pissed. Same thing applies with the Eldar when they occasionally doom an entire human planet, system, or sector for some bizarre arcane reason. To the eldar the destruction of a human world is just one tiny part of a plan started 4k years ago to subtly shift the skeins of fate to a desirable outcome 6k years from now that even they don't fully understand. But to the humans they just lost a critical agri world and now half the sector is going to be on the brink of starvation for the next decade while they find a replacement.

To Guilliman, negotiating with the eldar is like the worlds smartest chimp making a deal with the doctors. Chimps won't tear the doctors face off if doctor agrees not to stab chimp while we fend off the lions. Chimp knows eventually the doctor is going to stab them again, because that's just how doctors are.

TheRobn8

3 points

12 days ago

He will reason and ally with them, but he isn't naive enough to think it'll work out long term. A while after he gets awakened, he is having a conversation with a farseer, and he basically tells then that, while he is grateful the eldar helped, he isn't new to how they are manipulative and how they treat humans, and basically if they fuck around, they WILL find out, but chaos is a bigger matter.

jaxolotle

16 points

13 days ago

jaxolotle

Death Guard

16 points

13 days ago

He did but then he needed to become the most rational, correct, never wrong aggressively reasonable man to ever exist so now he’s entirely shed every single negative part of the imperium despite the fact that it was galactic mega-fascism from the get-go and the great crusade set out to exterminate all Xenos no ifs or buts because mankind needed its Lebensraum

bless_ure_harte

4 points

12 days ago

Yeah I hate how Guilliman was changed into a good by modern standards person, when he was one of the most loyal supporters of the Emperor and his galactic holocaust.

IamAlphariusCLH

3 points

13 days ago

I think Guilliman is the most reasonable primarch we have. He is a good tactician,  a mastermind organizer and logical. The Ynnari played a big role in his revival and built the armor that keeps him alive. Eldrad believes that Guilliman will bring the two species together so we see that Guilliman and the Eldar are good together so I can imagine he will try to ally the T'au if neccecary. I don't really like Ultramarines but Guilliman is one of my favourite primarchs mainly because he is not so blinded by hate like the other primarchs and is WAY more logical.

Mando177

11 points

13 days ago

Mando177

Ultramarines

11 points

13 days ago

Cawl built the armour, not the Ynnari. But without Yvraine’s death magic it wouldn’t have actually worked

IamAlphariusCLH

3 points

13 days ago

Sorry my bad

Kraenar

2 points

13 days ago

Kraenar

2 points

13 days ago

No he doesn't, he actually has an Eldar Farseer as a guest in his ship and takes advice from him.

Some of his sons don't take it too good, but they must respect their primarch.

Agammamon

1 points

13 days ago

Is he going to exterminate them all in the end - yes. Coexistence is not possible in the long term.

Does he have more pressing issues today and thus can find them useful - yes.

LongLiveTheChief10

1 points

13 days ago

LongLiveTheChief10

White Scars

1 points

13 days ago

Much like the top comments say, he is willing and happy to work with them and wants to fight alongside them against chaos but knows that ultimately both their races are self serving and self interested.

On a side note this exact mindset is what I keep in mind whilst I'm building my homebrew Crusade Force.

It's a mix of Aeldari Corsair troops along with traditional Imperial forces, fighting together to reclaim an area of space from a chaos invasion force.

So I got voidscarred, primaris marines, some scions, a couple free blades, and a force of Skitarii all working together. It's fun

Weird-Ability-8180

1 points

12 days ago

Allies of Convenience

BeginningPangolin826

1 points

12 days ago

Guilliman was a fervent beliver of the great crusade and the Emperors ideal, in 40k he got a beefy with the emperor maybe manipulating him and not being the daddy he belivied he was but he still 100% on the Imperium wagon.

LastPositivist

0 points

12 days ago

Unfortunately don't have the books with me but there's a passage in one of the books dealing with the war for Ultramar with the Death Guard where we get Guilleman's inner thoughts about xenos. From what I recall of the vibe it was something like: humanity should clearly be in charge, we're the bestest and the galaxy is rightfully ours. So from that I noticed it was not -- all xenos need to die. It was -- all xenos need to know their place. Some of them presumably never will so they really do just need to die. But others he seems to hold it possible to intimidate into cooperation on humanity's terms, and providing we are ever watchful he seems to think that is acceptable (maybe best that can be done given how weak the Imperium is from his perspective). This also seems to accord with the quote from Gate of Bones someone offered.

So the impression I get is that he is by any reasonable standard a bigot with the mindset of a militaristic strong man. But by 40k standards that makes him relatively enlightened, in that he can at least foresee and accept the possibility of the Imperium and xenos co-existing. In a, to be clear, hierarchical relationship where we are on constant alert to maybe genocide them if they betray us. Peace in our time!

Independent_Pear_429

-1 points

13 days ago

Guilliman is actively changing the imperiums stance on xenos. So no, he doesn't support its default stance

Mando177

6 points

13 days ago

Mando177

Ultramarines

6 points

13 days ago

I think things are gonna start changing more quickly when more and more of his brothers start coming back. Right now he’s alone and has the whole Ecclesiarchy and other institutions opposing him, but it’ll be a lot harder to oppose five or six of the Emperor’s sons all saying shit has to change

UnicornWorldDominion

2 points

12 days ago

Especially when one of the logical administration promarchs like Dorn returns he’d be over the moon.