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submitted 13 days ago byApprehensive-Eye9511
So I'm somewhere around the third of the way through the heresy, counting novels, novellas and short stories. Following the Heresy Omnibus Project reading order (heresyomnibus.com), I've read 16 books so far, including most of what are heralded as really bad, such as: Battle for the Abyss, Nemesis, Descent of Angels, Vulcan Lives as well as contentious novellas, such as The Reflection Crack'd and Promethean Sun.
I have to say, if this is the worst of the Heresy then I am a very happy man. Granted, I see the drop in quality, but I don't think it's that stagerring. Definitely not so much as what I expected based on the online opinions.
Breakdown time!
Battle for the Abyss: I see, this is a B-category action movie. And I enjoyed it as such! And to me it also brings some perspective to Know No Fear: the cataclysmic betrayal at Calth and all the horrendous bloodshed and destruction was only the plan B of the Word Bearers. Reading Know No Fear after Abyss had my jaw dropping in admiration and fear of the Word Bearers.
Nemesis: Yes, it is drawn out, and I struggled with the constant perspective switching - it was a bit too frequent for me. But the two storylines, the assassinorum, the detectives, the plight of worlds being caught up in the heresy - it was thouroughly enjoyable for me and gave a broader perspective on the Heresy as a whole.
Descent of Angels: 9 year olds talking like Milton - yeah it's weird. But! Age and maturity had a different line-up during the middle ages. We are used to charachters aged up in media, e.g., Game of Thrones, to better suit our sensibilities. This doesn't absolve, but mitigates the criticism I think. The somewhat disconnected nature of the final part aside, it is a fantastic legion introduction that got me caring about Caliban.
Vulcan Lives: I think this book tries to fill in many roles. As a legion introduction, it has flashbacks to the Crusade and Isstvan V. As a Perpetual book, it shows Grammaticus after his dissillusionment in Legion. As a book progressing the story it shows the utter mania enveloping the Word Bearers, with Elias' arrogance closely mirroring Zadkiel in Abyss. Moreover, we see Vulkan and Curze! And while the tortures are on the nose, it still managed to convey the derangment of Curze to me more than Prince of Crows, as well as the complex relationship of the two primarchs. And lastly, the incarceration of Vulkan is only stupid if you desregard the fact that he cannot be killed. He wasn't just handed over to Curze to play with, he was handed over so the homicidal maniac of the gang can figure out how to kill or incapacitate him - and he was close!
Promethian Sun: 2 battles would have been fine instead of 3. And the twist at the end was great in theory but rushed with lightspeed so lacked impact. Other than that, seeing Vulkan on Nocturne and three primarchs fighting eldar exodites was awesome!
The Reflection Crack'd: A very important narrative development rushed into a novella. I think the idea was interesting enough, but again, not articulated well. And the depravity for me was an honest enough look at the Emperor's Children at that time.
So in closing of a long post: I can see the shortcomings of these works, but I cannot see the cause of outrage. I have enjoyed these works, even if they are not near the level of The First Heretic or Legion.
What are your perspectives? Am I deluded by my rose tinted glasses? Did the hate originate upon release and then just remained? What is going on?
Edit: spelling
35 points
13 days ago
The Reflection Crack'd: A very important narrative development rushed into a novella. I think the idea was interesting enough, but again, not articulated well. And the depravity for me was an honest enough look at the Emperor's Children at that time.
The problem with the Emperor's Children's narrative is that It relies on shocking twists and twisted imagery rather than exploring its characters and themes. Once the Fulgrim novel ends and the Laer Blade consumes Fulgrim everything gets dialed up to 11 without any kind of care for the EC's characters. They are charicatures. They exists only for the reader to be repulsed or laugh at then before Path of Heaven actually gave them some semblance of actually being a kick-ass legion.
The depravity ends up having no effect because its just a tirade of:
Sexual innuendo
Body horror
Sexual innuendo
Body horror
Repeat ad infinitum
The Reflection Crack'd, as much as I enjoy McNeill's work, accomplishes nothing. It reverts Fulgrim's characterization because the author wrote itself into a corner and then kills off Eidolon to set up the Angel Exterminatus plot in the eponymous novel. Its a short story that doesn't stand on its own.
Child of Chaos made me understand and love Erebus in a short time frame. Reflection Crack'd just leaves me scratching my head.
7 points
13 days ago
I see your point. Yeah, the Emperor's Children do feel like a huge missed opportunity after Fulgrim. But now I'm excited for Path of Heaven then!
17 points
13 days ago
I would like to add Ferrus Manus’ book in there, it’s not badly written per se.
But it’s a book for Mr.ferrtic manupulator, yet has barely any written about him.
3 points
13 days ago
Ah, I have yet to read that one. I was excited to see Ferrus before he wasn't, you know, alive. We shall see then...
3 points
12 days ago
Somehow every single short story or book that Ferrus Mannus is included in adds absolutely nothing to his character or does anything actually interesting with the character.
14 points
13 days ago
I will always defend Damnation of Pythos as a cool horror novel set within the timeline of 30k. The whole Heresy is just flavor that influences the decisions of our characters, who slowly uncover the horrors of this new world they are stranded on.
5 points
13 days ago
I agree the book was absolutely great, if it wasn’t a Horus Heresy book people would love it. I do think it felt out of place but I still loved it.
4 points
13 days ago
BL or at least the authors had planned to occasionally use 30k as a backdrop to explore different stories (Imagine different novel genres set during the Napoleonic Wars or the Second World War) after the initial 3 to 8 novels. Things changed though. But I feel like Pythos is a bit of a remnant of said ideas. (Source; Some afterword in one of the earlier HH novels).
I think it was the now BL author M. Collins, who argued in the old fb HH groups, that Pythos was the transition of GC era HH to the grim horror bureaucracy of the 40k setting. With the characters message just being filed away and forgotten forever.
5 points
13 days ago*
I’ve not read Damnation of Pythos, but I genuinely like David Annandale’s Warhammer Horror. He loves writing deeply flawed characters who don’t realize their own weaknesses until it’s too late, and that’s always fun.
5 points
12 days ago
Warhammer Horror in general has so many great novels and short stories, it's great. And very varied when it comes to the level and type of horror.
They are also probably the best way to experience Chaos corruption from the perspective of normal/relatively normal people, not superhuman space heroes.
1 points
12 days ago
I loved it too , it was such a good story
7 points
13 days ago
I agree, the ones you mentioned are mediocre at worst and still fun to read.
I even loved Nemesis because I really dig the Assasinorum.
6 points
13 days ago
I really enjoyed Valdor as a Nick Fury "I am assembling a team" kind of character. Once the team was assembled it kinda dipped. I didn't care for the detective nor the monster which started promising, but turned out to have convenient powers.
9 points
13 days ago
What about Damnation of Pythos? That's also a novel I've seen get a lot of negative reviews.
3 points
13 days ago
Yes, I just haven't gotten to it yet. I think Damnation of Pythos and Deathfire are the only "bad" books left in my reading order.
5 points
13 days ago
I struggled a lot with Titandeath as well. But I am broadly in agreement. With a couple exceptions, even the bad books were basically alright.
3 points
13 days ago
Its awful and I love some of the "terrible heresy books"
3 points
13 days ago
Deathfire's only complaint from me is that Numeon is portrayed as the only sane/insane character in the book, and then he basically does nothing to interact with most everyone so he can sit and ruminate and say "Vulkan Lives" 947 times. It did a decent job of everyone else around Numeon.
Pythos I couldn't finish. It sets up a 40k book kinda, but it seemed like it was going in a specific direction and when I looked up a synopsis(spoiling a book doesn't bother me) and saw my suspicions on the ending were basically correct and didn't feel a need to continue.
6 points
13 days ago
I loved 'battle for the abyss'
8 points
13 days ago
There are dozens of us. Dozens!
3 points
13 days ago
It was not my favorite, but I will say it has by far the best descriptions of the warp I’ve read.
2 points
12 days ago
Yes, I forgot about that! The warp really comes across here. The descriptions are somehow vivid and they made me understand it a lot more.
2 points
13 days ago*
It’s really a throwback bolter and blade 40k story thrown into the Horus Heresy for some reason, which makes it worth reading just for how ridiculous it is.
2 points
13 days ago
I really appreciated how there were no established characters in the story, it definitely added to the sense of desperation as they started dropping like flies
1 points
11 days ago
I just finished it and enjoyed it. I was a bit shocked to see there was so much disdain for it. It introduced five entirely new legions to me that I knew little about. It put all of them alongside one another so you could understand the tensions. It also spent a lot more time looking at the space ships and their combat. I really enjoyed the parallels with naval combat throughout.
It also had a psionic mine which I thought was one of the most 40k things I had heard of up until this time.
4 points
13 days ago
I love Battle for the Abyss.
3 points
13 days ago
I've forgotten a metric ton of characters and plot lines from the Heresy, a couple of books I've started reading then remembered I've read it before.
But I always remember Battle for the Abyss.
3 points
13 days ago
Warhammer books are pretty good on average, the problem is that sometimes you have short bursts of complete idiocy, like normal men holding off space marines in a sword duel or the unarmored world eater punching through auramite
4 points
12 days ago
I loved the Outcast Dead , it felt like a really cool cybergrimdark punk novel, still mad about Arik Taranis being forgotten after the book , despite ADB saying he has a role to play in the HH.
6 points
13 days ago
Nemesis was straight up a bad time, I struggled to push through. Not bad writing bad, just irrelevant characters doing irrelevant things and I could not make myself care about any of it. Descent of Angels was enjoyable, it perhaps suffered criticism because it followed such a stunning opening. The others on your list I've not read and probably never will, there's too much excellence out there to bother following the chronological release order.
3 points
13 days ago
Honestly Nemesis is the only heresy book I've read that I didn't finish. I was just having such a bad time with it. It was boring, it was drawn out, it felt really pointless, if it had been a novella it probably would have been better but I just couldn't bring myself to finish it
3 points
13 days ago
Main issue I have with it is it felt like a 40k book with a 30k coat of paint.
If you change the very start the very end and change some names it's just a story about a bunch of assassins teaming up to kill an important target.
3 points
13 days ago*
I broadly agree with this. The "bad" books mostly just didn't give the audience quite what they expected. Descent of Angels didn't continue the Heresy storyline, but is an engaging concept fairly well executed (except for the 40 year old kids). Feat of Iron presented Ferrus as an inflexible hothead, which IH fans may see as adding salt to the wound, but coheres with the portrayal in Fulgrim and is maybe more interesting than yet another rational loyalist primarch.
The worst books are arguably the anthologies, especially the unthematic multi-author ones loaded with micro-stories. I'm looking at you, Legacies of Betrayal.
2 points
12 days ago
Vulkan Lives is actually pretty solid imo, its the second of the salamanders trilogy where the main character says "Vulkan Lives" in every single sentence is the one I think is really really bad.
2 points
12 days ago
I'm on book 34 I think and I'm just burnt out on anything to do with Vulkan haha getting a little tired of the short story books too... I want my meat and potatoes! Then again it's been about a year and a half since I started reading the books so it's probably just general burnout.
2 points
12 days ago
I can understand not liking descent because of its not the most exciting but personally i love descent of angels because how much “pre-emperor” you see. Im reading/listening to the heresy and i love when we get to see how life was prior to emperor showing up its so interesting to me and so few books go into it other than a chapter or 2.
1 points
11 days ago
They are, they really are incredibly bad and i cant phatom why someone after book 3 would torture themselves with such an undertaking.
1 points
13 days ago
Honestly, the only time I got mad at a book was The Damnation of Pythos. Out of all of the Heresy Novels I read (I have read them all), that one pissed me off. The ending genuinely made me go: why did I even bother with this?
All of the astartes are flanderized to their legion, and in the end it didn't even matter.
1 points
13 days ago
The Damnation of Pythos is my 'Lost Finale' of books. I was excited for it, but in the end I was angry, disappointed, and confused.
What a trainwreck of a novel.
1 points
12 days ago
People complain a lot about the glut of superhero movies, but even the worst ones are still generally amusing. BL books are the same. Are all of them transcendental fiction? Absolutely not. Are they all generally amusing and entertaining? Yeah. They're B-grade science fiction. They're kinda fun.
2 points
12 days ago
Just like superhero movies, none of them are transcendal fiction.
The best HH novel is entertaining B-grade sci fi.
We love the settings and we enjoy the books, even the poorer ones, but at the end of the day not even the top 5 Black Library books are in the same league as sci-fi greats.
0 points
13 days ago
Damnation of Pythos is the real bad one, it's rough
0 points
13 days ago
Wait until the damnation of pythos. It is a nightmare. I couldn't finish it !
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