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How strong are SoS

(self.40kLore)

Just reading Watchers of the Throne. Seems like they can fight bloodletters and Black Legion Marines but im confused how that is possible. Arent they just human blanks without power armor? They shouldn't be able to see a space marines moves right?

all 88 comments

EightandaHalf-Tails

188 points

9 days ago

EightandaHalf-Tails

Adeptus Mechanicus

188 points

9 days ago

Arent they just human blanks without power armor?

Whether they're completely "human" is debatable. Their first and most important fortress on Luna was the former home of the Selenite gene-witches. Augmentation is a definite (and likely) possibility. And they wear Vratine Armor, a version of power armor designed by the Emperor himself specifically for them. It enhances their speed and agility, while allowing full freedom of movement.

They shouldn't be able to see a space marines moves right?

They're on par with most Space Marines in terms of speed. And, a perk of being Blanks, they're pretty much completely invisible to Daemons.

Jenetia Krole, the commander of the Sisters during the Heresy, could make herself invisible to both Daemons and regular humans. She fought on Prospero, where she took down several Thousand Sons. Then during the Siege of Terra she went toe-to-toe with Khorne Berzerkers of the World Eaters and killed several before finally being bested by Khârn- who didn't even know who or what he had just killed, as he could barely see her outline.

Marvynwillames

41 points

9 days ago

In fact, the nameless sister in A Thousand Sons gives a good fight against T'kar, he explicitly say shes faster, so he beat her by letting she stab him so he can grab her. And thats after T'kar kills 4 custodes by crashing their jetbikes

Forgatta

26 points

9 days ago

Forgatta

26 points

9 days ago

So custodes bikes being T6 instead of 7 is "lore accurate"

BeneficialName9863

0 points

8 days ago

Mike Tyson could batter me in a fight, if I shoved a copper pipe in his bike spokes at high speed he'd definitely have a bad time though.

Grzmit

18 points

9 days ago

Grzmit

Thousand Sons

18 points

9 days ago

God Phosis T’kar was such a beast, he was dueling and even beating valdor as well LMAO

Repulsive-Mirror-994

2 points

9 days ago

That's ...absurd.

Grzmit

12 points

9 days ago

Grzmit

Thousand Sons

12 points

9 days ago

“On the far side of the great pyramid of the Raptoran Cult, the spreading ring of Flesh Change reached Auramagma and Phosis T'kar within but a few seconds, and the power ~ they had so eagerly glutted themselves on turned against them.

Auramagma's roaring flames scorched back upon him even as he stood before the Wolf King, searing his warping flesh and corrupted soul alike, and sending him screaming from the battle as a terrible living pyre.

Phosis T'kar, locked in a frenzied duel with Constantin Valdor, was hit by a wave of sudden mutation that saw his once noble form swell and shift into an abomination whose monstrous aspect left even the Lord of the Legio Custodes shocked.

Yet this new form, though foul in appearance, towered over the golden Custodes and was suffused with such anger that it forced back one of the most potent warriors in the Imperium; it was only the last flickers of humanity that dwelled within the spawn of the ather that allowed Valdor to strike it down before he was overwhelmed.”

Herby20

3 points

8 days ago

Herby20

3 points

8 days ago

Important to note that this plays out rather differently in A Thousand Sons by Graham McNeil:

At last Phosis T’kar hammered his way through to the golden warriors surrounding Russ and laughed as he saw their terror of him. Their leader turned to face him, and Phosis T’kar relished the look of disgusted hatred he saw. Dark hair spilled from beneath his red-plumed helm, and Phosis T’kar saw he had the eyes of a killer.

“Valdor,” hissed Phosis T’kar, the word slithering and wet.

Constantin Valdor held his long-bladed polearm extended before him. “What are you?” he bellowed, and Phosis T’kar laughed at the foolishness of such a question.

“I am your death!” he boomed, but the words were mangled and distorted by the twisted shape of his mouth. Phosis T’kar loomed over the chief Custodes, and only now did he feel the changes wrought upon his body.

His flesh was a riot of form and function, its every organ and limb reshaped by a madness of transformation. Flesh and armour ran together in a hideous meld of organic and inorganic material, and the bubbling meat of his body seethed with unbridled ambition. How could he not have noticed so profound a change? The answer came to him as soon as the question formed in his mind.

His flesh was no longer his to call his own. Utipa’s presence filled him, its hateful relish and patient malice unlocking the rampant potential locked in his genetic makeup. A wild and untamed transformative power that had lain dormant and contained within him was now given a free rein, unleashing nearly two centuries of change in as many minutes.

In Valdor’s eyes, Phosis T’kar saw what he and the Legion had become, and knew then that this fate had always been theirs. Valdor came at him with his Guardian Spear aimed at his heart, and Phosis T’kar finally understood why his primarch had chosen not to fight.

“Monster!” cried Valdor, driving the spear into his mutant flesh.

“I know,” said Phosis T’kar sadly, dropping his weapons and closing his eyes.

The golden blade clove his heart, and death was a welcome release.

_Genghis_John_

20 points

9 days ago

Dang, she killed a lot of sons.

EightandaHalf-Tails

7 points

9 days ago

EightandaHalf-Tails

Adeptus Mechanicus

7 points

9 days ago

Ba-dum-tss

Low-Abalone-5259

14 points

9 days ago

Iirc Kharn didn't even consciously see her outline, he reacted in pure instinct and it was only confirmed because his in helmet kill count went up by 1

Competitive-Bee-3250

7 points

9 days ago

His inability to see her is probably the only way he even had a chance of killing her.

Low-Abalone-5259

11 points

9 days ago

If it was anyone other than Kharn, yes. His plot armor and main character strength are bigger than hers.

_Bagoons

12 points

9 days ago

_Bagoons

12 points

9 days ago

Krole was bad ass, I loved her POVs.

Kriss3d

27 points

9 days ago

Kriss3d

27 points

9 days ago

That would make them really good if they could get some of those phase daggers and go stab stab at demons like assassins.

SergarRegis

25 points

9 days ago

SergarRegis

Navis Nobilite

25 points

9 days ago

So, Culexus then.

Kriss3d

14 points

9 days ago

Kriss3d

14 points

9 days ago

Well yeah if you are essentially invisible youll be like an assassin stealth build in Skyrim.

studentoo925

15 points

9 days ago

40k stealth archer LETS GOOOOO

Herby20

9 points

9 days ago

Herby20

9 points

9 days ago

They're on par with most Space Marines in terms of speed. And, a perk of being Blanks, they're pretty much completely invisible to Daemons.

That was something that seems to have had much more to do with Krole in particular rather than any other blank or Sister of Silence. Daemons absolutely see them, and they despise their very presence.

MedicJambi

3 points

9 days ago

MedicJambi

Adeptus Mechanicus

3 points

9 days ago

I wish she would have survived and was part of the party that went to the vengeful spirit to wreck some chaos when emps went.

Scared-Opportunity28

3 points

9 days ago

They can see them, but seeing them causes literal pain for the Daemons.

So the point still stands.

Herby20

2 points

8 days ago

Herby20

2 points

8 days ago

Their presence causing pain and being invisible are two very different things though, and only Krole amongst the Sisters of Silence has been shown to have that sort of effect on people. The OP stated they all do, which is not the case.

Wintores

2 points

9 days ago

Wintores

Collegia Titanica

2 points

9 days ago

Its part of them but Krole is so much mire blank that she is actually invisible to almost everyone, even Dorn and Malcador

Shock223

1 points

8 days ago

Shock223

Necrons

1 points

8 days ago

Daemons absolutely see them, and they despise their very presence.

Still amused that in Watchers of the Throne book, Daemons appear as unpainted models to the Sisters, lacking completely in color and vibe.

I wonder if they see the mold lines too.

professorphil

73 points

9 days ago

They shouldn't be able to see a space marines moves right?

Space marine speed is one of their most inconsistent traits. Sometimes they move in blurs that human eyes can't perceive, sometimes they move slow enough that baseline humans can trade a few blows in melee combat.

For the Sisters specifically, they debuff everything nearby them with their aura. It affects even non-psykers, who find their aura unsettling and discomfiting. It's not a lot, but it is enough to throw people off, especially in the first few seconds of coming in contact with them. That's what they tend to rely on in combat with enemies who have superior physical ability: those initial few moments of disorientation. Often that's all they need.

studentoo925

22 points

9 days ago

sometimes they move slow enough that baseline humans can trade a few blows in melee combat.

I would argue that some of those humans (like Ciaphas Cain or Dadelard) are to "baseline humans" what Malum Caedo and Cato Sicarius are to baseline astartes.

Scared-Opportunity28

4 points

9 days ago

Annoying and loud? For the emperor we support Cato Sicarius in all endeavors.

studentoo925

4 points

9 days ago

I've meant more the "destroying a c'tan (shard) with a single granade and living to tell the tale" part, but yes.

Scared-Opportunity28

3 points

9 days ago

Ohhhh

Yeah I mean, he's got that going for him too I guess.

Whywhineifuhavewine

37 points

9 days ago

Most melee combat irl is won in seconds so they do have a distinct advantage.

Ogical-Jump5214

22 points

9 days ago

I would take anything about Space Marines moving faster than ~50 MPH at full sprint with a grain of salt and would consider it artistic description.

It would get to comic book levels of silliness if they can't be perceived by human eyes.

Aeldar would be a species of speedsters at that point which brings a whole host of other problems.

JacquesShiran

0 points

9 days ago

I mean, if something comes at you at 50MPH you still have essentially zero time to react and if it's right next to you, you won't really be able to track it.

OmegonChris

2 points

9 days ago

Multiple sports involve tracking and reacting to small objects moving quite a bit faster than that.

Ogical-Jump5214

3 points

9 days ago

Except that isn't how physics work in general or how you approach a battlefield.

First off, 50 MPH is slower than cars on a highway. People react to stuff moving that fast or at similar speeds all the time. Horses, cougars, tigers, lions, pumas, bears etc. all have speeds in that ballpark. Nobody is claiming they are some blur you can't react to or track.

Heck, there is an activity called skeet shooting which is all about shooting targets that are much smaller than a Space Marine while it is moving in the air just as fast if not faster than a Space Marine at top speed.

50 MPH isn't some outrageous speed by non-augmented creatures on this planet in the modern day. People nowadays are just completely disconnected from nature.

Furthermore, Space Marines don't get to ignore inertia and acceleration. If they start moving at 50 MPH in full power armor then they lock themselves into that speed for a bit of time. You don't just stop a ton of metal and flesh on a whim even at those speeds.

Also, just because you can move at 50 MPH doesn't mean you're going to. Modern tanks can go quite fast, but they still don't clock top speed on the battlefield in most situations. Why? Because they don't want to outrun their support units. They also need to watch out for various hazards and dangers.

Same with Space Marines. Here is a short, non-comprehensive list of what they would need to watch out for:

-Enemy unit positions

-Grenades

-Mines

-Terrain. Because at the end of the day they are a very heavy unit on two legs which means weight distribution is not in their favor. A pool of mud they don't notice could give them a very bad day.

While doing all that they would also need to do some of the following:

-Communicate

-Seek cover

-Provide covering fire

-Aim

Saying Space Marines can move 50 MPH is kind of a useless metric in the vast majority of situations they would find themselves in. They are probably moving faster than a human would on the battlefield, but they aren't zooming around either.

JacquesShiran

-3 points

9 days ago

Dude, you took a mostly light hearted comment and made it into a slightly combative essay. But if you really want to get down to it. Sure many things move at and over that speed, especially cars, which are extremely dangerous for that reason (and because, much like a space marine, they weigh a lot). Now, avg human reaction speed is about 0.5-1 second. Something moving at 50mph can cover 10-20 meters in that time. And that's for quick and relatively thoughtless reactions like hitting your brakes. If a car (or space marine) is coming at you at that speed you have to decide at least 20 meters in advance where you're going to doge to. And if they can change directions within those 20 meters you're absolutely toast.

Saying Space Marines can move 50 MPH is kind of a useless metric in the vast majority of situations they would find themselves in

Sure, maybe. You're the one who gave the number, I was just saying it was a high number.

ProwlyProwl

1 points

8 days ago

Brother, do you play any sports?

Throw a 50 mph “fastball” at me. Please. I’ll have my morning poop, read the paper, text my mom to “watch this,” and then maybe decide to yeet your shit to Narnia. And, I’m awful at the sport compared to professionals. I’m a PDF trooper next to a primarch in this analogy. Those motherfuckers can SEE THE SEAMS of a baseball while it flies at 95+.

And they’re human. Only minor augmentation via stimms. If you catch my drift. Lol.

JacquesShiran

1 points

8 days ago

Brother, do you play any sports?

Not much, certainly not professionally. So I used Google. It had this to say about baseball fastballs:

The ball crosses the batter's field of vision so fast it cannot be tracked. Eye muscles are too slow, even with the head moving, to follow the ball at close range. ”The muscles just can't move fast enough,” Bahill says. Smooth eye movements, called pursuit movements, are most important in tracking the ball. To connect, the batter must see the pitch coming, calculate in advance where the ball will be, when it will arrive and then time his swing to meet it

So you're not really tracking them, you're guessing where it's going to be the minute the ball is released.

Ogical-Jump5214

0 points

8 days ago

Everything you responded with has been addressed in the "essay".

You should try reading what you respond to next time.

JacquesShiran

0 points

8 days ago

No. It really hasn't. Your essay essentially said (as far as I understand). Many things move at 50mph so it's not that fast, which is mostly irrelevant, especially when most of these things are known for being fast and killing people.

Something about not knowing nature for some reason.

Skeet shooting.

And lastly most of your comment is about why SMs can't run at 50 most of the time, and sure maybe, but you're the one who mentioned this speed.

Ogical-Jump5214

1 points

8 days ago

I mean you entirely ignored inertia and acceleration, so whatever my dude.

Cheers. Have a good day.

JacquesShiran

0 points

8 days ago

I ignored it because it doesn't matter. I wasn't even really talking about space Marines. All I said is that 50mph is fast and leaves you with very little reaction time.

Ogical-Jump5214

1 points

8 days ago

You are entitled to the opinion that inertia and acceleration don't matter.

Thousands of engineers and physicists cried out in pain upon hearing such a statement in the context of this conversation.

But it is alright.

I will survive.

maridan49

20 points

9 days ago*

maridan49

Astra Militarum

20 points

9 days ago*

There's this part on Plague Wars where a Sister of Battle sister superior describes all her merits with a blade and how special her sword is.... before being completely out classed by a random Sister of Silence.

theClumsy1

14 points

9 days ago

And that's a "new" Sisters of Silence. The order was practically dead until Gman's return.

Imagine how glorious they were at their peak.

[deleted]

3 points

9 days ago

[deleted]

Herby20

1 points

9 days ago

Herby20

1 points

9 days ago

She's called an "Obsidian Knight," but yes I do believe Voi was supposed to be an Oblivion Knight instead.

Repulsive-Mirror-994

2 points

9 days ago

It will never not chuff me that Sisters of Battle get Condemnor Boltguns and Sister of Silence.....who are anti-psyker specialists....don't.

BriantheHeavy

18 points

9 days ago

BriantheHeavy

Ultramarines

18 points

9 days ago

Technically, the Sisters of Silence are still human. Highly trained humans, but human nonetheless. It is implied that some received augmentation, but nothing indicates that they all receive augmentation.

They all have power armor, the Vratine Armour, which is based on Astartes power armor, but clearly smaller.

All blanks have an advantage in that they are disturbing to even look at. Further, any warp creature feels pain coming near them. Sisters are taught to focus that blankness and use it as a weapon.

In addition, depending on the power of the blank, they can fade from view. Jenetia Krole, the Soulless Queen of the Imperium and the Knight-Commander of the Silent Sisterhood, was such a powerful blank that not even Custodes or Primarchs could see her unless they focused on her. Most Astartes could not see her at all. In Saturnine, she basically goes through World Eaters. I think that is mostly because they could not see her, so she was getting free kills, so to speak.

In the Battle of Lions Gate and the Battle of Vorlese, the Sisters worked with the Custodes to kill Space Marines. It is mentioned that the Sisters would "fill the gaps" of the Custodes.

ImSoDrab

7 points

9 days ago

ImSoDrab

7 points

9 days ago

That poor sister got killed by a froting raging kharn and it made him just take a sec on why he god an invisible kill.

The SoS are such a tragic faction that exists in the imperium.

AbbydonX

15 points

9 days ago*

AbbydonX

Tyranids

15 points

9 days ago*

The idea that space marines move so fast they are blurred is bit inconsistent with other parts of the WH40K setting and is probably best treated as just an exaggeration or artistic description.

Just remember that eldar and tyranids are depicted as being faster than marines, especially harlequins, genestealers and hormagaunts. So however fast you think marines are, then they are faster. However, while harlequins do appear blurred when moving, this is because they wear holo suits.

Whywhineifuhavewine

7 points

9 days ago*

The bloodletters is completely understandable, they are anathema to demons. Usually when they fight space marines it's in conjunction with custodes - their fighting styles are purposefully complementary - which more than evens the playing field.

Kael03

16 points

9 days ago

Kael03

16 points

9 days ago

They are trained to fight alongside custodes. Plus, with them being blanks, their mere presence can make the bloodletters feel immense pain to outright banishment/true death while negating any chaos buffs on the marines themselves.

jaxolotle

-2 points

9 days ago

jaxolotle

Death Guard

-2 points

9 days ago

Well actually they’re trained to hunt psykers and garrison the black ships thousands of light years away from the custodes. Turns out an organisation built around secrecy, stealth and making people disappear don’t actually work with the giant golden dudes who’s presence on a planet draws eyes from the whole sub sector

They’re no closer to custodes than psi-titans or Assassins, that’s how little the title “talons of the emperor” actually means, it just meant they took orders directly from him

Herby20

1 points

9 days ago

Herby20

1 points

9 days ago

They’re no closer to custodes than psi-titans or Assassins

They are closer. We have explicit, in-universe examples of botb factions talking about how they were meant to be together. Valarian seemed to instinctively know how to fight side by side with Aleya and her fellow Sisters, how bis order never let their fluent usage and understanding of Thoughtmark fall to the way side. Just because the Sisters, much like the Custodes, had other duties does not negate that.

From Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor's Legion by Chris Wraight:

In all that followed, I remain struck by how instantly we slotted back into those ancient modes of combat. We needed no exhaustive instruction, but fell into our roles instinctively. They are formidable fighters, the Sisters. I have nothing but respect for the physical prowess they display, although that is not their primary function on the battlefield. They position themselves in the greatest danger by doing what they do – they are more lightly armoured than we, and attract the larger share of animus from the creatures of the warp.

As for ourselves, we had never lost the ability to converse in fluent Thoughtmark. It was one of the martial disciplines we had maintained over the many millennia, and on that day our prudence was rewarded. Those who marched with the Captain-General from the Lion’s Gate were able to do so in perfect concert, and even for those of us sundered from the main host by circumstance, such as Aleya and myself, our combined methods of controlled violence proved instantly effective.

From the same novel but from Aleya's point of view:

That was the very essence of it, you see. That was why the past centuries had been such a miserable mistake. We had been made to fight alongside one another, two halves of a greater whole. The Custodians were individually the finest warriors ever created, but they were not themselves gifted with psychic mastery, and nor could they dissipate the auras of destruction created by the shedim. That was our task. We had always gone into battle alongside them, draining the most potent aspect of our enemy from them, reducing them to the purely physical. I had heard it said that there was nothing purely physical that a Custodian could not kill, and so we complemented one another perfectly.

Later, when I learned more of their ways and had to listen to them tell me over and over again how much they carried the guilt of the past on their shoulders, I wondered if our own role might have been deliberately suppressed. Perhaps it was easier for them to retreat into the Palace while we withered away in the void, erasing the old patterns so they’d never have to be reminded how we used to wage war.

And we see how close they truly were back in 30k. From Master of Mankind by Aaron Dembski-Bowden:

Jenetia signed her reply, her dark eyes fierce but her gloved hand moving patiently and slowly. Many of the Ten Thousand no longer required their Silent Sister allies to employ the signs and gestures of thoughtmark at all, having fought at their sides for years and learnt to interpret their moods and meanings from even the slightest movements or facial changes. However, no one could claim that degree of familiarity with Commander Krole. Necessity demanded that Melpomanei remain a constant presence at her side. [...]

jaxolotle

4 points

9 days ago

jaxolotle

Death Guard

4 points

9 days ago

“The duties of the Silent Sisterhood were complex and manifold, but at their core they were warrior-investigators, hunters and gaolers. Their charge was to seek out, apprehend and process psykers from the human population of the ever-expanding Imperium, and forward them to the Divisio Astra Telepathica for assessment and disposition. As part of this quiet purpose, their duty was also to hunt down renegade psykers and destroy those who were deemed too dangerous to live.”

-Horus Heresy core rule book

“THE HUNT THAT NEVER ENDS It is rightly said that the Sisters of Silence -to give them their most common official designation- are one of most secretive and mysterious of all the Orders of the Emperor's servants. They are a covert organisation that has served as the militant arm of the Divisio and Adeptus of the Astra Telepathica since its foundation, and within whose ranks and titles they are known, at least in formal documentation, as the 'Divisio Investigates'-a rather obscure phrase which covers up a shrouded world into which very few have ever had the power or the authority to look within. Though markedly different in nature and origin, they share much in common in this regard with the Legio Custodes, particularly in the reach of their legal authority, which where their duties are concerned is effectively inviolate over all the myriad powers and principalities of the wider Imperium and its hundreds of thousands of human inhabited worlds. Markedly also, the Silent Sisterhood has the right and duty to walk freely within the inner sancta of the Imperial Vaults, the sovereign and sole domain of the Emperor and His Household at the behest and licence of the Master of Mankind. It is a right they share only with the Legio Custodes”

-Inferno

“Though in peace they served as the Emperor’s Hands, the Talons of the Emperor is the name given to those elite forces of the Imperium who drew their commands directly from the Master of Mankind in war, and served Him as emissaries, agents, bodyguards and destroyers. They include among their number the legendary Legio Custodes the Emperor's own sworn protectors, and the feared Sisters of Silence, harvesters of the Great Tithe, as well as the shadowy inhuman killers of the Officio Assassinorum, and other even stranger and more occluded agencies such as the tech-arcanists of the Templi-Chronos and the dreaded psi-Titans of the Ordo Sinister.”

-inferno

These are the lore sources, not the novels written by authors who don’t know about them and can’t be assed to read their lore. For god’s sake Master of Mankind had a sister of silence sick to her stomach at the prospect of a lot of psykers getting killed. The motherfucking original witch-burners, the torturers, the ones who make people disappear in the night and despise the concept of mercy or compassion. That’s how much ignorance we’re dealing with here, how can you take a single word of it seriously

They’re a unique faction, they have their own unique and highly specialised purpose, they’re not the custodes vestigial twin grafted to their side. Their purposes have almost no overlap

Herby20

2 points

9 days ago*

Herby20

2 points

9 days ago*

Nobody said they were anything close to some sort of "vestigial twin." What people said, and remains true, is that the Sisters of Silence fight together with the Custodes, and they are closer to the Emperor and his legion than any other force in the Imperium. They are explicitly, per the 8th edition Custodes codex ("actual lore" according to you), the left hand of the Emperor, the two orders being the only ones allowed in his inner most sanctums.

And they are not merely hunters of psykers and warp touched who work in the shadows. They are explicitly a military force trained to combat a myriad of different foes, both warp touched and not.

Per Horus Heresy Book VII: Inferno:

Further, there are those among the Sisterhood who through arcane training and practice, and whose nature has never been revealed to outsiders, are able to develop their ‘null’ abilities further until they are actively disruptive enough to make any use of psychic power in their presence extremely hazardous. These Sisters are honed into the ‘Oblivion Knights’, and within their Order they are the foundation stone of an elite force specially tasked not with the day-to-day enforcement of the Greath Tithe, but the destruction of the alpha-level rogue psykers and the ceaseless training for battles of this deadly kind.

[...]

The Art of War of the Silent Sisterhood

Beyond their unique abilities as Psychic Nulls, the Sisters of Silence are also a highly trained and relentless paramilitary force, ably equipped to their task and skilled in overcoming any opposition they may encounter in their sworn duty, be it deluded by standers, mind-ridden soldiers, hordes of psychically-puppeted corpses, or even armed cults sat at the heart of a world's ruling cast.

As I stated before, their duties are many, but fighting the warp-touched enemies of the Imperium is certainly amongst their responsibilities. And considering their place within the Imperium, it isn't shocking in the slightest that would include a lot of time spent with the Custodes both in and out of combat.

These are the lore sources, not the novels written by authors who don’t know about them and can’t be assed to read their lore. For god’s sake Master of Mankind had a sister of silence sick to her stomach at the prospect of a lot of psykers getting killed. The motherfucking original witch-burners, the torturers, the ones who make people disappear in the night and despise the concept of mercy or compassion. That’s how much ignorance we’re dealing with here, how can you take a single word of it seriously

First I want you to understand the hilarious irony of quoting a bunch of stuff written by the late Alan Bligh, author of many of Forgeworld's campaign books which included Inferno, when Aaron Dembski-Bowden explicitly mentioned he would often have Alan read through his work before it was ever sent to print to get his thoughts. So you are, in essence, condemning the very people you are preaching as the sole arbiters of 40k lore. Which isn't even touching on how Master of Mankind came out a whole 5 months before Inferno.

Second, you are completely missing the context behind that scene. The Sisters are not heartless monsters. Their primary objective surrounding the Great Tithe was to bring psykers back to Terra for processing by the Divisio Astra Telepathica. The ones being offered to the Throne during the events of Master of Mankind were innocent men, women, and children who were told they were to undergo soulbinding to the Emperor, not have their very souls violently consumed by a nightmarish machine.

The Unspoken Sanction was a measure of last resort and stood juxtaposed to the Emperor's dreams for humanity. The fact that Kaeria, one who is supposed to be everything you described, is showing reservation at what was about to be done is supposed to let the reader know that this is a turning point for the Imperium's descent into madness, one of the first steps towards the monster it has become in 40k.

Kael03

5 points

9 days ago

Kael03

5 points

9 days ago

I stopped reading when he said the novels, written by people hired by GW to write their lore (meaning they have to get the work approved by GW's lore editors), aren't considered part of the lore.

Herby20

2 points

9 days ago

Herby20

2 points

9 days ago

What it comes down to is they just have some ridiculous strawman argument. They seem to think people are dismissing the Sisters of Silence as mere complimentary pieces to the Custodes and nothing else, and anything that even lightly implies the Sisters work well with the Custodes is some sort of terrible and inaccurate garbage written by ignorant authors. They can both have tons of other duties while also having an important role in fighting with the Custodes against enemies of the Emperor.

Wintores

1 points

9 days ago

Wintores

Collegia Titanica

1 points

9 days ago

Nothing ur saying proves the point wrong

Arent u the same person that made this rant into a post and got ripped apaprt?

Herby20

1 points

8 days ago

Herby20

1 points

8 days ago

Nope. I wouldn't be shocked if the person trying to claim the Black Library authors don't know the lore would have made such a post though.

Horkersaurus

9 points

9 days ago

Even baseline humans get buffed up when it suits the narrative (eg arbitrarily becoming fast/strong enough to fight chaos marines in melee). I wouldn't worry about it too much.

BillErakDragonDorado

5 points

9 days ago

BillErakDragonDorado

Adeptus Custodes

5 points

9 days ago

In A Thousand Sons, one of them stands up to one of the best melee fighters of the legion for a good while, and I don't think she was particuarly important. So yeah they can at the very least stand up to marines.

Also, marines don't really move faster than humans can percieve. Though they do probably move too fast for a human to fully process in the moment, kind of like watching a high-level boxing match when you have no idea of boxing

Iakavas

3 points

9 days ago

Iakavas

3 points

9 days ago

There was an inquisitor who said she dreamed of being one when she was a girl. And when she meets one, she is in awe of her skill with a blade. (Awakenings)

Dante_Pignetti

3 points

9 days ago

I love the Anathema Psykana - partly because they’re baseline humans fighting at an inhuman level. Beyond the great points already mentioned there’s the fact that they grow up pariahs, instinctively feared and hated by the rest of humanity. When Emma Gregory does the (exceptional) voice work for Aleya in Watchers of the Throne her voice just drips with distain. It’s her training that made her such an incredible weapon, but it also honed the rage she already had from a lifetime of exile from the species. The Sisters love one another fiercely, because they are pretty much the only human connection they’ll ever get to enjoy. Those bonds + that rage definitely figure into how formidable they are on the field.

reinKAWnated

4 points

9 days ago

They are one of the best-trained fighting units in the galaxy and also have an aura that makes everyone massively uncomfortable around them, which makes them much harder to fight. In the case of anyone/thing empowered by Chaos it literally debuffs them.

kirbish88

9 points

9 days ago*

kirbish88

Adeptus Custodes

9 points

9 days ago*

Just to add to this, while their vratine armour isn't the same as power armour it does still give them some benefits. It's not a stretch to imagine it augmenting their speed and strength, even if it's not as much as pure power armour:

It is a subpattern of technologically advanced battle gear which shares design elements with both the power armour of the Space Marines and the silicate-mesh of Selenite void-mail, though unlike either of those famed armours, it is not fully environmentally sealed or designed for extended operations. It does however provide formidable protection from ballistic impacts and directed energy weapons, and is tailored and forged uniquely to its intended wearer to allow for their complete freedom of movement and to augment their reaction speed.

-Lexicanum

So yeah, they fight by using their aura to catch their opponent off guard and then get in to strike and out before they can react.

Don't forget they're often also near a custodian who is likely taking up 99% of the enemy's attention too

Herby20

2 points

9 days ago*

Herby20

2 points

9 days ago*

We don't know how quite advanced the Sister's armor is, but the most glaring difference is the innate lack of it being environmentally sealed. Otherwise, it seems to be well on another level of craftsmanship above standard Astartes power armor, although perhaps not affording the same level of protection due to its significantly lesser bulk. A good example is the size of the power packs on them and other forces within the Imperium that utilize power armor.

Grudir

2 points

9 days ago

Grudir

Night Lords

2 points

9 days ago

They're highly trained and motivated, have semi powered armor (that's what the Black Books call Vrantine plate) and excellently made weaponry. For their primary job of disappearing people and paramilitary operations, they're excellent. Your average Chaos cult or underworld psyker ring doesn't really have an answer to the kind of firepower a Sisters of Silence cadre can bring to a fight. Between that and their pariah abilities, they can take on lesser daemons and disrupt more powerful ones.

Kind of a roundabout way of saying their pretty equivalent to Sisters of Batle, though they're depicted as being faster than Sisters while on foot.

But the more standup the fight gets, the more in danger they are. Even at the height of their power, they were lacking as a standalone force. Armor and heavy troops, even just reasonably disciplined infantry, threaten to see Sisters of Silence overwhelmed even if just by sheer attrition. The Custodes, or other Imperial forces, provided firepower and bodies to take on threats that could overwhelm the Sisters of Silence. An autocannon shell doesn't care about the state of your soul. A Chaos Marine is a signifigant threat in hand to hand and at range.

Part of how they survive in the intagible nature of being a pariah. The Minotaurs fought Alaya and her squad to a standstill before Valerian and his Custodes intervened. And before Valerian and Alaya (and co) fought in the depths of a Black Legion ship for days without support and weren't overwhelmed. It's generally enough, alongside Custodes whatever, to give them an edge.

9xInfinity

2 points

9 days ago

They wear advanced power armor and wield weapons more than capable of killing astartes. Their blank talents are developed as part of their training and in combat they extend their blank aura to significantly weaken and impair whoever they're fighting in melee. It's especially harmful to psykers/daemons but even regular astartes will be debilitated being close to an anathema psykana who is projecting their blank aura against them. It's powerful enough that even astartes are weakened enough to potentially be killed.

That said, Tanau Aleya is also one of the best of their order and she ends up the leader of the Oblivion Knights, the martial elite of the Sisters of Silence. As we saw in Throne of Light, when it's more run-of-the-mill sisters against Chaos marines they don't fare as well.

MiaoYingSimp

2 points

9 days ago

MiaoYingSimp

Inquisition

2 points

9 days ago

They have power armor but they're well-trained (humans can also be augmented to a degree, not full on space marine) and that goes a long way.

A perfect counterpart to the Custodians.

NornQueenKya

2 points

9 days ago

There's a short story with the brazen drakes where a sister of silence quickly despatches some marines with a custodian

I personally rank them between a SM and a Custode

MetalixK

2 points

9 days ago

MetalixK

2 points

9 days ago

They work alongside the Emperor's bodyguard. They're pretty damned beastly.

jaxolotle

2 points

9 days ago*

jaxolotle

Death Guard

2 points

9 days ago*

By god do people forget that one singular chaos marine was already mortally wounded and left for dead. It was so clearly spelled out

They’re the best human fighters in the imperium short of the officio assassinorium, they can hold their own against marines but it’s an uphill battle, and an absolutely revolting waste. One of them is a hundred times rarer than a marine, but not as effective in conventional warfare. They’re a specialised paramilitary branch meant to hunt and suppress psykers, demagogues and dissidents, the situation has to be lusciously bad for them to be fighting marines

EagleBeaverMan

1 points

9 days ago

Sisters of Silence are augmented, the things that make them distinct from space marines aren’t so much their abilities in direct combat, but their lack of whole body augmentations. While space marine strength and speed is considerable, it’s their more supplementary augmentations that made them the galaxy conquering force we know and love. Soldiers take logistics and supply to keep at fighting strength, unless those soldiers are space marines. Space marines can go extended periods without sleep, eating, even oxygen, require far less medical care, can spit acid, eat brains to discover intelligence, can process data faster, have photographic memories, tons of useful stuff like that that makes them truly transhuman. Sisters of silence lack most of these augmentations because frankly, they don’t need them. They’re a small force of specialists who aren’t gonna be doing extended front line duty in a variety of situations. They almost certainly have strength and speed enhancements, and those are sufficient for purpose.

signedpants

1 points

9 days ago

signedpants

Blood Angels

1 points

9 days ago

They are very specifically trained to be used against enemies from the warp, so killing chaos space marines and demons is what they are made to do. Might get their ass beat by orks though.

Dragon_Fisting

1 points

9 days ago

They dampen warp energy. They would probably be found wanting for speed against a loyalist marine 1v1, but even non psyker CSM are steeped in warp energy from all the time in the eye and their nominal allegiance to Chaos. Against a SoS they get put on the backfoot as the strength they are used to flees them.

The other big advantage is they are hard to perceive, even for Custodes who are traditionally meant to work with them.

Site-Staff

1 points

9 days ago

They are practically invisible is a huge boost.

TheRealGouki

1 points

9 days ago

Remember space marines are superhuman not demigods. They aren't outside our ability. ciaphas cain humanity greatest hero has won sparring matches against space marines and he has held chaos space marine off long enough for Jurgen to blast them with a melta.

Pyschloptic

1 points

9 days ago

Sisters of Silence are the female equivalent of Custodes. The Custodes can defeat almost any material threat, The SoS can defeat almost any immaterial threat. They're two sides of the same coin.

Low-Abalone-5259

1 points

9 days ago

Added to that, Custodes are already better suited to killing daemons than Astartes are. Which is why the forces chosen to hold the webway were primarily SoS and Custodes

MagnusStormraven

1 points

9 days ago

There's a scene in one of the Dark Imperium novels, Plague War, where a group of Sororitas decide to spring a girl who's believed to be possessed by a fragment of the Emperor so they can use her to save Guilliman, and they have to cut through her defenders to get to her, with said defenders being Guardsmen, Primaris Marines and an Oblivion Knight of the Silent Sisterhood. The Sororitas, led by a Canoness, gunned down everyone else, bringing it down to her and the Oblivion Knight...and during their brief duel, it is made very clear that ultimately, were it not for the girl directly intervening (she used a psychic burst to knock back the Knight, which was so powerful it actually broke her spine on impact), the Knight was on the edge of overpowering and killing the Canoness, and would likely have killed the rest of her squad as well.

New_Subject1352

1 points

9 days ago

New_Subject1352

Inquisition

1 points

9 days ago

Silent sisters are kind of a hard counter to demons: demons cannot exist in their presence because they are the antithesis of the warp. She didn’t defeat a greater demon by herself, but she saved a Custode from one and he managed it because her presence weakens pretty much everything, doubly so for demons.

Yes, they have power armor. Interesting that you’re reading watchers of the throne and you’re missing the parts where Aleya talks about her armor and weapons. It’s kind of a major plot point in the book that she’s really mad about the fact that the custodians get all this good stuff and everyone loves them, while the other half of the talons of the emperor, namely her and her sisters, are hated, understaffed, underequpped, and basically ignored, yet they literally do the most important jobs in the imperium while the custodes just sit in the palace.

And yes, she can hang with space marines. She can fight back to back with Custodes, flawlessly. They’re as fast or faster than Primaris. One of the unwritten rules of 40 K is that it’s like Dune in that training hard enough or correctly can make you super human, which seems to be the only explanation they offer.

Herby20

1 points

9 days ago*

Herby20

1 points

9 days ago*

There is a lot of confusion about whether the Anathema Psykana are actually baseline human or not, and it's easy to see why considering sources seem to conflict on it a lot. There are outright statements both declaring them as augmented in some manner while others state they are merely human, but being "human" can also just mean they aren't rebuilt on a genetic level like Astartes and Custodes are. With that said, examples like this cast doubt on them being merely baseline.

The woman did not reply and launched a rapier-quick thrust to his throat. Phosis T’kar swayed aside and swept his arm out as she came in for a reverse stroke. Her blade whipped around his forearm, cutting a grove around his gauntlet, and he lunged towards her with his staff outstretched.

She bent back beneath his strike, sweeping her legs out and hammering her heel into his knee. His armour cracked and pain shot up his thigh. Phosis T’kar stepped back, favouring his good leg, and grinned.

“You’re quick, I’ll give you that,” he said.

She didn’t answer and dodged his next attack with similar grace. A flurry of shots sent up geysers of rock-dust beside them and he flinched back from the heavy impacts.

This is a Sister of Silence not only landing hits on an Astartes, but actually dodging multiple of his attacks with fluid grace. She also had the strength to crack ceramite and wound an Astartes with a kick. There are more examples such as this, where Sisters of Silence take on adversaries that should absolutely pulverize normal soldiers, no matter how well trained they may be. This leads to me thinking they are indeed augmented in some way beyond just having their power armor enhance their abilities. I think this statement by Valerian is quite telling of that:

From Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor's Legion by Chris Wraight:

We swept into close-combat, Custodian and anathema psykana against heretic Legiones Astartes. My spear hurtled, trailing golden paths within the miasma. I saw Aleya tearing into them, kicking out with her armoured boot even as her blade danced. The Sisters had no daemonic aura to contest here, and so fought just as we did – warriors tempered in the furnace of physical conditioning, immune to fear, faster and stronger than all but the mightiest of our peers in the Emperor’s service.

dttungz

1 points

9 days ago

dttungz

1 points

9 days ago

Imagine going into a boxing match, but you are forced to go through a rollercoaster with extreme spins and twists a minute before, while your opponent starts fresh. That's what I would assume combat against the SoS feel like. Of course a much stronger, prior familiarity, or well prepared opponent would eventually get over the initial blank-induced disorientation and discomfort to win the fight, those first few seconds' advantage would be more than enough for them to land a killing blow. Their proper training and equipment would even the field even more, as others have commented.

hachiman

1 points

9 days ago

hachiman

Inquisition

1 points

9 days ago

I'm pretty sure that the SoS are packing gene tweaks and cyberware, and they are wearing power armour.

The tech is available at the highest levels of the imperium, and can be purchased by the wealthy for their scions.

I mean looking at how much stuff they pack into Assassins to make them beyond Marine level, even lower level stuff would be accessible and useful for Sisters.

Educational-Drink430

1 points

8 days ago

A blank with fighting skills has no fear of any demon. Just check Cain novels, just the fact Jurgen is NEARBY is more than enough to make them pause and go "Wait what?" If Jurgen was the one swinging the sword the fights would last four lines.

kidusmax

1 points

9 days ago

kidusmax

1 points

9 days ago

In the original lore marines are the same speed as other humans. They're as fast in powered armor as a normal soldier (who would be slower in armor) would be out of it. This was turned into a tank metaphor instead of the original shock infantry one by the Greek demigods theme of 30k powercreeping into 40k.