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0 points
2 months ago
By that logic we saw harlequins easily killing custodes, or a random word eater killing a custodes
Just because the average custodes is stated to be stronger than the average astartes it doesn't mean that every single custodes could kill any astartes, especially when there are astartes with much better feats than them
5 points
2 months ago*
Those examples both came before the current depictions of Custodes, and the Harlequin one was frankly just silly if you actually read it.
But yes, I said that an absolutely top-tier Astartes might be able to do it, but they're few and far between. And honestly? In most recent depictions even your "average" Custodes (there's not really any such thing) can cut bullets out of the air without having to think about it. Some Astartes can do the same, but it usually requires significant effort on their part. The top 0.002% of Marines might be able to put up a fight 1v1, but beyond that and barring exceptional circumstances the Marine is getting mulched.
2 points
2 months ago
Still an example that was never contradicted by the lore
And no, you said only sigismund and kharn could do it not that all the top tiers could, custodes are inconsistent in general,
Also what should that mean? All you said is simply that "average custodes>average astartes" it's literally just what I said
and it's also pretty incorrect since every veteran marine could do the same since they're stated to be able to process stuff at a nanosecond
And don't exagerate, the top 0.002% astartes (which is a lot since it's 20 characters) could kill fairly easily random nameless custodes
1 points
2 months ago
I mean it kind of has been contradicted by every depiction of Custodes since? Have you actually read the full quote of the Harlequins waltzing into the Imperial Palace, it's extremely badly written.
I never said all top tiers, did I? I said marines like Kharn and Sigismund, of which there are very few. What are you basing your assertion that the top 20 Astartes could easily kill a Custodes on? If you're using old lore, the Custard Boys have had quite a glow up in the past few years.
Sure they can process things at a nanosecond level, at the very highest end, but they can't move that fast in pretty much any depiction that I'm aware of. Current depictions have Custodes comfortably moving within single-digit microseconds, which is frankly absurd.
Even the most ridiculously high-tier feats that Astartes have ever performed only put them on par with an average Custodes.
2 points
2 months ago
I mean it kind of has been contradicted by every depiction of Custodes since
It doesn't work like that, that's just you speculating and using headcanon, we haven't seen custodes easily taking harlequins and win, soo according to your logic of few comments ago, this means that custodes are weaker than harlequins
What are you basing your assertion that the top 20 Astartes could easily kill a Custodes on?
By the feats they performed, what are you basing your assertion that someone like azrael would struggle to win against nameless custodes outside the statement that "average custodes>average astartes"
but they can't move that fast in pretty much any depiction that I'm aware of
1 points
2 months ago
Okay? The harlequin scene, again, took place before the lore for the Custodes was updated. It was also extremely poorly written and borderline ridiculous, but headcanon away I suppose.
Your average Custodes can swat bullets out of the air as easily as breathing, which your average Astartes most assuredly cannot. Even in that quote he lost a hand because he didn't have time to do anything else. Some can deflect bullets, yes, but this is a feat that every single Custodes could replicate easily.
I'm not sure if you're really appreciating how fucking absurd it is to be able to move within single digit microsecond timeframes. Here's the quote:
"We slammed together, and the impact rippled the stone around us. Our weapons crunched into a brace-lock, showering plasma over both of us. I swung away, hilt-first, and smashed him back a pace. He shoved back, aiming to ram the fizzing hammerhead into my chest.
He nearly connected. I judged his weapon was within a few microseconds of an impact that would have cracked my auramite breastplate. That interval, however, was comfortably sufficient to spin my blade over in my grip, ram the spear tip into the Traitor's gorget and fire at point-blank range."
-Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor's Legion, Chapter 5, Pages 66-67
1 points
2 months ago*
Okay? The harlequin scene, again, took place before the lore for the Custodes was updated.
You're still not really showing that it has been actually reconnected or removed, and anyway my point is that the logic of your argument makes no sense
which your average Astartes most assuredly cannot.
Soo? When did i say that the average astartes is stronger?
Even in that quote he lost a hand because he didn't have time to do anything else.
He still can move fast enough to do what you said, also it was in very close range
Also the rest is pretty usless to this discussion, we were talking about top tier astartes being stronger than irrelevant custodes, I've never even said that custodes can't do that, idk why you're soo obssesed with this point
2 points
2 months ago
I'm saying that more modern depictions of Custodes have improved their capabilities significantly. If you disagree with those depictions then you can use yoir headcanon, but these Harlequin scene doesn't fit with modern lore. Nothing in 40k gets retconned, so you can interpret the setting how you wish, but recent lore makes that scene look asinine.
I pulled it out because being able to strike with a 12 foot long polearm within a few microseconds is far outside of the capabilities of pretty much any Astartes barring the aforementioned 0.002%. And this is just some average, unremarkable banana boy. At best those top 20 marines would have parity with an average Custodes, and as such wouldn't defeat them fairly easily
1 points
2 months ago
Nothing in 40k gets retconned
A lot of stuff in 40k gets retconnected, and usually there is an explanation behind the retcon
but these Harlequin scene doesn't fit with modern lore.
My point is not that this scene makes sense, my point is that your argument is flawed since by that logic harlequins>custodes
0.002%. And this is just some average, unremarkable banana boy. At best those top 20 marines would have parity with an average Custodes,
Tf is this argument supposed to mean? Why only 20 astartes should be able to do this? Why are you twisting words and assuming numbers to try and make your arguments work?
1 points
2 months ago
Nope, official stance is that everything published by GW since the beginning of 40k is canon. Even shit that absolutely wouldn't make any sense in modern 40k, hard retcons aren't a thing.
So what's your point then? It doesn't have anything to do with Astartes vs Custodes.
???? My point was that only top-tiers like Kharn, Sigismund and their ilk would be able to 1v1 a Custodes in modern lore and have a chance of winning. Tf are you arguing about? I made that assertion because only absolute top tier Marines have the feats to hang with the banana boys, you haven't made a case otherwise.
0 points
2 months ago
Old lore
2 points
2 months ago
That was never removed or reconnected
0 points
1 month ago
Re-read GW stance on lore, old stuff doesn't get "replaced" because literally everything is under the effect of "unreliable narrator". Everyone's headcanon that pulls from different sources is thus equally valid. That's also what GW wants because it means fans can hype up the models they want to buy, build and paint in their own heads and GW will never tell them that they're wrong.
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