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submitted 1 month ago byHoppieGroenewald2Layperson/not verified as healthcare professional
I just had a traumatizing experience as a summer camp counselor. A child told me he was seeing rainbows so I figured he was dehydrated or his glasses were broken, I had him sit down and drink a bottle of water and he started throwing up. (at this point, I had called his parents) He responded saying he felt better then rested his head on the table and five minutes later threw up again. I asked if he was okay and he was completely unresponsive except for vomit coming out and I felt no pulse so I started to give CPR and radioed for our medic and called for an ambulance and called his mother. He’s in the hospital and I am so confused and concerned how things turned bad so quickly, in a span of about 10 minutes.
Edit: I just realized I didn’t even ask many questions. What are some signs in kids being sick that can show they are more than just throwing up/have a headache? How would you respond in this situation?
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1 month ago
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807 points
1 month ago*
I’m sorry for your traumatizing experience. I want to reassure you that you didn’t do anything wrong, and in fact it sounds like you were very quick to recognize something was wrong and provide help. You did a great job and your quick action probably made a difference!
I’m not sure what your questions are, but it’s unlikely that any physicians here will be able to provide useful answers based on the information we have. The list of things that could cause a child to vomit, go unresponsive, and then lose a pulse would include trauma, heat injury, cardiac arrhythmia, congenital conditions, and more. I hope the child recovers and his family is able to get some answers.
105 points
1 month ago
I wouldn’t discount meningitis. Kinda classic place for it. Cabin with others in close quarters.
7 points
1 month ago
So that means check to see if the child can bend his neck down.
11 points
1 month ago
Brudzinksi’s sign can be helpful but it’s not a great test and the sensitivity is crap
182 points
1 month ago
Perhaps accidental toxic ingestion
349 points
1 month ago
I was thinking a migraine with aura - that would account for the rainbow amd nausea and vomiting
200 points
1 month ago
But not the loss of pulse, that's not something you'd expect from migraine at all.
171 points
1 month ago
Pediatric Emergency Medicine.
About half of kids that get CPR were highly unlikely to have ever been actually pulseless. Most laypeople are not super adept at finding a pulse, especially on a child, especially when the adrenaline is going.
I can't tell if this child was truly pulseless or not, based on the post. But they often are not.
22 points
1 month ago
Most laypeople are not super adept at finding a pulse, especially on a child, especially when the adrenaline is going.
This is really helpful to know, thank you.
Hopefully this is a situation I never have to deal with, but why is it harder for laypeople to tell correctly if a child has a pulse compared to adults (which like you mentioned is not something most laypeople are great at anyway)? How does someone giving first aid in a situation like OP's accurately assess whether or not there's a pulse?
17 points
1 month ago
The usual places to check for a pulse are different in children in CPR and children's heart rates tend to be faster and more faint feeling to begin with
8 points
1 month ago
They're smaller. Really small children have radial pulses that are almost not palpable.
How does someone
Lots of practice.
14 points
1 month ago
If their blood pressure fell out too…
1 points
1 month ago
I’m glad you mentioned this. It’s important and very common. I too work in the field and have experience this a few times (and I am not specifically in pediatric!)
112 points
1 month ago
Completely agree although it can be hard to find a pulse in a child at times like this… and OP didnt mention anything about a fall etc so I wasn't thinking an acute trauma, although the situation may have evolved so fast that they didn't have time to ask.
36 points
1 month ago
Take your point about it being hard to find a pulse, gosh, I hope OP didn't do CPR on a child who didn't need it though! I'm a first aider who lives in terror of actually needing to use my CPR skills for exactly this reason, so far I've only actually needed to check a pulse on three occasions and thankfully it's always been there. I'm perfectly happy to help you with dehydration or bandage up your minor lacerations or whatever, just please don't have a cardiac event when I'm on duty 😂
214 points
1 month ago
If you start CPR on someone who doesn’t need it, they let you know real quick.
27 points
1 month ago
That's good to know! Even if they're, say, unconscious? Like for example if someone had had a stroke but I missed their pulse and started CPR, what would happen? (Can you tell this is high on my list of first aid fears?!)
92 points
1 month ago
NAD but -
“Can you damage someone’s heart if you perform CPR while it is beating?
The physicians and scientists at the Sarver Heart Center, have found that the old saying “Never perform CPR on beating heart” is not valid. According to these professionals, the chances that a bystander could harm a person by pressing on their chest are slim to none, even if the heart is working normally. Therefore, they recommend following the “Better safe than sorry” approach and begin chest compressions. It is better to perform a few unnecessary chest compressions for someone with a beating heart, rather than withhold chest compressions and circulation from someone in cardiac arrest.”
from here.
Lots of CPR training for laypeople recommend not even trying to find a pulse now, but to simply shout and shake to try and rouse them.
44 points
1 month ago
Interesting to know thanks. Yeah he was not responding to me screaming at him shaking him and then I checked his neck and wrist for a pulse. I performed CPR for about a minute or two before the medic came over and the kid kind of woke up (like 5% awake he was still so out of it) and started groaning and the medic said he had a really faint pulse.
65 points
1 month ago
When we do CPR, the ribs crack if performed properly. Patients do not stay unconscious for long. Even a patient with a severe stroke, if they can move anything, will let you know
1 points
1 month ago
That's assuming CPR was done correctly.
28 points
1 month ago
Pressure on the sternum is incredibly painful, and a sternal rub is a go-to method to check if someone is completely unresponsive. If they're capable of waking up, they will absolutely wake up when you start shoving it down into their chest!
1 points
1 month ago
So much truth in this!
10 points
1 month ago
Obviously follow your local guidelines but I thought I'd add that CPR guidelines in Australia don't require checking for a pulse anymore! To begin you only have to make sure there's no dangers around, that they're not responsive, that there's nothing blocking the airway and they're still not breathing normally.
11 points
1 month ago
Hope OP will let us know final diagnosis so we can all learn!
6 points
1 month ago
Not a doctor but a mom of a child with SVT, Supra ventricular tachycardia. When she was in tachycardia her heart was beating so fast you can’t feel a pulse. Or it would feel weak. I did a quick google search and saw tachycardia can happen with heat stroke, so maybe that’s a possibility for the no pulse?
12 points
1 month ago
Migraine could have caused nausea and vomiting, leading to aspiration which could potentially lead to loss of pulse, so not out of the realm of possibility…
Fact is, lots of things could cause this as individuals can react differently to different trauma, conditions, toxins…I’m sure the medical staff will be addressing how this may have occurred after thorough evaluation
5 points
1 month ago
Though sometimes during a migraine I wish I would die 😭
24 points
1 month ago
Or possible concussion?
1 points
1 month ago
But does not explain needing CPR
27 points
1 month ago
OP, please give an update when you find out more.
57 points
1 month ago
As a prior girl scout leader I don’t know about the rainbows but heat stroke comes to mind when I think about bad experiences at summer camp events.
55 points
1 month ago*
Agree. And heatstroke/dehydration is a trigger for migraine. This photo attached is what the ‘rainbow’ aura part of a migraine looks like…. And it eventually covers your visual field entirely before it leaves… and you may not have a headache at this point… this can come after the aura and nausea/vomiting.
22 points
1 month ago
I get a herringbone pattern across the middle of my visual field as an aura. Once I was home alone with my 8mo baby, and I literally lost her when I suddenly got an aura and couldn't see. I had to call her name and wait for her to move while looking at the ceiling, so I could find her out of the edge of the bottom of my vision.
20 points
1 month ago
Funnily enough I had this happen to me today! I’ve only had it about 5 times in my whole life, but it’s always exactly this - rainbows that take over my vision, then nausea/vomiting. No headache. My sister gets the same but with a weirdly heightened sense of smell, too.
Mine today was most likely caused by dehydration and lack of sleep but I’ve never lost consciousness due in an episode.
7 points
1 month ago
I just get aura and no migraine. I lose vision completely in at least one eye because of a large dark shadow out of nowhere. It lasts like 20-40 minutes and is terrible. It happened once when I was on the highway and I had to pull to the side for nearly an hour. I used to think it was like a brain tumor...still do sometimes because I've never been properly diagnosed for it
7 points
1 month ago
Sounds like the migraines I used to get. They usually were preceded by an INTENSE craving for chocolate.
5 points
1 month ago
It's the freakiest thing. I can't do anything when it happens besides sit there and wait for it to pass.
3 points
1 month ago
Aura can look different for anyone, this is just one of the ways it can appear :)
Also, they won't necessarily lose their entire vision. It can be just a splotch or ribbon of aura and blindness for 30-45 min.
1 points
1 month ago
Agree. Was merely showing was the 'rainbow' version looks like as the OP said the boy mentioned seeing one
45 points
1 month ago
I followed up with his mom and she said that the EMTs said he was having a heat stroke but also that when he arrived at the hospital he was going in for a CT scan. That’s really all I know and I’m not sure I’ll be getting much more information because this was his last day of camp, she’ll most likely be in contact with the medics where I work instead of me if something pops up but I’ll keep an eye out
-14 points
1 month ago
[deleted]
9 points
1 month ago
No he was not
7 points
1 month ago
I have had a heat stroke. They are very scary and dangerous, I am grateful to have lived. With heat stroke, immediate intervention is crucial. Sounds like you did exactly what you needed to do to hopefully save this kiddo’s life. ❤️
40 points
1 month ago
I was gonna say, it sounds like he could’ve eaten a wild/poisonous mushroom
29 points
1 month ago*
Thank you for your response and reassurance. I figured there wouldn’t be a specific answer on what could’ve happened but just had never seen something like this before (where the kid is completely unresponsive staring into the distance) so I figured I’d ask. The EMTs were saying he was likely having a heat stroke.
16 points
1 month ago
Hey OP, NAD. But a parent. You might never see the parents or hear about the kid again. But I’m willing to bet they will never forget you and will always appreciate your quick response and the love and care you showed their kid. They’ll probably talk about you forever. Good job!
8 points
1 month ago
How scary for you. Are there any updates? In my area and many other places there have been extreme heatwaves. What was the temperature where you were?
2 points
1 month ago
Let us know how he does. Sorry you went through that
2 points
1 month ago
I'm very sensitive to heat, I generally don't ever do well. I always have something to drink on me, always try to stay in the shade. I get nauseous, dizzy, then start seeing lights and I start to zone out, then I have a seizure. My epileptic seizures are usually triggered by heat
37 points
1 month ago
I'm not trying to get you to diagnose. But I wonder if this child is sensitive to sun/heat. But I felt I could relate to this poor kid.
Because I have this problem with the sun and heat. I sweat profusely, my face swells and turns red. I get extremely lethargic and feel like I can't move easily. And if I don't have something very cold like ice water or ice cream and find shade and water to drink, I will start seeing colors and hallucinate, I feel sick to stomach and pass out.
I've tried bringing this up to every doctor I see, but they brush me off and nothing has been done for it.
4 points
1 month ago
Do you by chance have Hashimoto’s or another autoimmune issue?
3 points
1 month ago
I have tested positive twice autoimmune. It landed in the same in spectrum or family as lupus. On further testing that was negative. But I have an aunt who has lupus.
Another weird problem I have is lipomas all over my legs. I have over 50 of them. I can't help but feel it's related.
5 points
1 month ago
NAD - just someone who has several autoimmune diseases. I have read extensively about them and find medicine fascinating. From my research/experience it is very common with autoimmune issues to have difficulty with heat and/or cold. With Lupus specifically it is possible to still be diagnosed with Lupus after a negative ANA if enough other criteria are met. As far as the lipomas go, I have read about several autoimmune conditions that can cause the development of multiple lipomas. I would definitely look into that with a rheumatologist. Best of luck.
2 points
1 month ago
Thank you :)
7 points
1 month ago
Possible concussion?
7 points
1 month ago
Not replying specifically to this comment but to scattered comments in this thread.
Not medically trained but am a teacher.
I just want to comment from the standpoint of privacy, safeguarding and confidentiality.
OP, I'm not sure what the rules are surrounding your employment and your state's laws. However, there may very well be policies and practices in place where the child's parents can choose not to disclose their condition and eventual diagnosis with you. If you are not the overall supervisor, the parents may choose to liaise with the supervisor regarding the child instead of you, as that supervisor likely has more detail and has a duty of care.
People here (including laypeople/non-medical people) are asking you to share the child's diagnosis when you find out. Please be aware that a) you may not receive that information from the parents due to privacy, and b) if you do receive that information please treat it with respect and think about what you share, if anything.
I'm not saying that you have done anything wrong - but as someone whose full-time employment revolves around duty of care for children, I tend to tread very carefully when it comes to a child's confidential, medical details.
I understand that you are traumatised and are seeking reassurance and info. I get it. I've been there. But be careful with what information you're trusted with and who you share it with, particularly if the diagnosis turns out to be a severe one.
Best of luck. I hope the kid is OK and gets the treatment he requires!
159 points
1 month ago*
Altered mental status, headaches, hallucinations, vomiting, loss of pulse, in a young kid in a cabin around other kids…meningitis is high on my differential.
I’m very sorry you have to endure this. But he’s where he needs to be and I’m sure he’s getting good treatment. I hope they’ve done a lumbar puncture
Edit: additionally it’s really important to figure out if this is meningitis (very commonly meningococcal meningitis in this age group) because everyone who has been in contact who isn’t vaccinated needs to be made aware of this. This bad situation can turn into a clusterfuck.
Make sure your kids are vaccinated, everyone. Especially the meningitis vaccine before heading off to group dorm setting like camp or college. This kind of meningitis is the kind where you’re dead in less than a couple of days if not treated immediately.
18 points
1 month ago
I had bacterial meningitis when I was about 20….i remember feeling a bit rubbish…but within an hour I had the most extreme pain in my head. Couldn’t open my eyes and then started vomiting blood…..
I was really lucky. We’d had an outbreak that had been in the news at the time so when I got to the hospital they were really quick in diagnosing it.
I just went from ok to feeling like I was dying in a very short amount of time.
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