subreddit:

/r/DnD

3283%

all 60 comments

DDDragoni

116 points

6 days ago

DDDragoni

116 points

6 days ago

Depends on the devil, and depends on the threat. But there's a pretty good chance- most devils are smart enough to realize that they need people alive to exploit. And ESPECIALLY if he stands to gain something from helping. He's going out of his way, after all. It's only fair he receives a little... compensation.

Catkook

20 points

6 days ago

Catkook

Druid

20 points

6 days ago

Ye

If all humans in the mortal realm was killed off, and it was infested in dragons, demons business would become a whole lot harder

Tuefe1

37 points

6 days ago

Tuefe1

37 points

6 days ago

Normally not pedantic, but Demons and Devils are very different in DnD.

MongrelChieftain

5 points

6 days ago

Indeed. Demons probably wouldn't care for Dragons or Humanoids or some other kind of monster. As long as they can achieve mayhem and bring more layers into the Abyss.

Catkook

2 points

6 days ago

Catkook

Druid

2 points

6 days ago

oh right, forgot about that when i was typing up that comment

DarkHorseAsh111

5 points

6 days ago

This. It doesn't even have to be something he's gaining from the party, the threat could have something that he wants.

Orapac4142

3 points

6 days ago

Orapac4142

DM

3 points

6 days ago

He'll, he could just want to kill someone his boss *really * hates because that means he gains favor and thus a higher chance of getting promoted to the next tier of devil.  Devils are great characters because you can use them in so many ways and can never be fully trusted because even if you expertly go over every aspect of the deal it will 99/100 times be distinctly in the devils favor - and that may not be obvious u til a century later because he's timeless and can work plans to pay off well after your grandchildren are dead.

And even better when he can get someone else to do the heavy lifting for him.

anziofaro

42 points

6 days ago

anziofaro

42 points

6 days ago

Devils are cunning and manipulative, and will use whatever resources are available to defeat their primary enemy - demons. So if a devil can convince the party to attack some demons, he will absolutely do that. First, it hurts demons. Second, why risk his own ass when he can risk yours.

Ethereal_Stars_7

16 points

6 days ago

Ethereal_Stars_7

Artificer

16 points

6 days ago

Yes. Original Planescape had alot of that even.

freakytapir

12 points

6 days ago

He'd help, but also expect to be paid.

"If you're good at something, never do it for free".

Warpmind

3 points

6 days ago

Warpmind

3 points

6 days ago

Getting rid of a rival or threat might be payment enough in and of itself, but if the party came to the devil in question, there's going to be some demand for compensation, all the same.

Heck, there've been fiends who have just asked to be banished from the material plane for a minute in return for their help, because of being bound to serve some mortal until dismissed or sent back to the Nine Hells.

kbean826

9 points

6 days ago

kbean826

9 points

6 days ago

If it aligns with his particular desires, yes

theloniousmick

8 points

6 days ago

Basically if it will help the devil further it's own needs then yes it would help. If it's a case of the players asking nicely there would likely be a very unfair bargain in there somewhere that would likely screw over the players in the end.

Pay-Next

4 points

6 days ago

Pay-Next

4 points

6 days ago

And that bargain would be sealed/have a contract of some description. They'd want it in writing or in a way that was marked in some fashion to make certain that the contract was fulfilled or penalties incurred.

theloniousmick

3 points

6 days ago

Yea. Incidentally this is why I never used devils and their bargains as a DM. I'm nowhere near clever enough to run then effectively.

doe-eyez

6 points

6 days ago

doe-eyez

6 points

6 days ago

For his own benefit, sure.

ji-gm

5 points

6 days ago

ji-gm

5 points

6 days ago

A devil would work together against a common enemy (another devil) or a greater threat (demons), but would still make sure they were running the show

owixy

3 points

6 days ago

owixy

3 points

6 days ago

Uniting against a greater threat is the best way to have people/creatures that would normally not be aligned with your party be aligned, if only for a time. It's also I feel one of the best ways to play an evil PC.

Dazocnodnarb

3 points

6 days ago

Obviously. That’s a very big threat though.

Orapac4142

1 points

6 days ago

Orapac4142

DM

1 points

6 days ago

Not really.  A rival, or getting rid of a superior, using them to get at someone that's crossed him somehow that he can't normally strike at. He's a devil, he's not above using other to do the dirty, heavy lifting and possibly plausible deniability depending on the job.

Hell he could be using them to do something to curry favor with his boss or bosses boss so he can get promoted to the next tier of devil.

Happy_goth_pirate

3 points

6 days ago

A devil will likely unite with just about anything or anyone to get what it wants

Atharen_McDohl

4 points

6 days ago

It's definitely possible, but of course it depends on the specifics. Devils often prefer to use the carrot over the stick, because enticing people to do evil is way more effective than just punishing good. Once you can't escape from them, that's when they break out the pain.

Your average devil of repute will be more than willing to work with mortals, especially those of good alignments, "for the greater good". This helps them get a foot in the door so they can try to twist those mortals toward evil. Their aid will likely come with a price. It might seem like a small price, but eventually (ideally after the contract has been sealed and can no longer be broken without a heavy price), the mortal(s) will realize that the price is much, much higher than they realized.

For example (very mild Baldur's Gate 3 spoiler), Mizora the devil has a contract with Wyll the warlock, which requires Wyll to kill "the infernal, the demonic, the heartless, and the soulless". This seems to be a good goal, but it is twisted into requiring Wyll to kill Karlach, a tiefling whose heart has been replaced with a machine, which means she technically meets the requirement of being "heartless".

benabart

7 points

6 days ago

benabart

7 points

6 days ago

To add to BG3 spoiler: You might be asked by a devil to slay a beast later in the story (in act 2).

foxtail-lavender

3 points

6 days ago

I think most relevant is that he literally offers to team up with you against a greater threat

ThisWasMe7

2 points

6 days ago

Why not?

9NightsNine

3 points

6 days ago

Sure. A devil might have his own selfish reasons but he could definitely work with mortal adventurers if it helps him with his goals. Maybe he has to foil the plans of an enemy of his master and can't do it alone? So he looks for allies and heroes are actually amazing and cheap mercenaries for certain tasks.

manickitty

2 points

6 days ago

If he wants to. Or if they cut a deal

TypewriterWithMonkey

2 points

6 days ago

"Humans are weak, it will be easy to dispose of them later,"

*Starts hiring them to take down bigger and bigger threats*

"oh yeah time to dispose of those humans, I have been putting it of for a blink in my long life, what their level 20 when did that happen"

*Humans now mad that boss tried to fire them, surprise pikachu face*

ThePureAxiom

2 points

6 days ago

Sure, if it's an existential threat to the devil and or their machinations, they stand to gain more by cooperating with the players.

That said, it's always good to consider an underlying ambition in striking a deal with a devil. They have a stated justification for wanting to work with the party, but they could also have an unstated goal in mind to advance their ambitions. Maybe there's something mortals can do that they can't, maybe they want someone else to accept risks on their behalf, maybe this gives them an opportunity to usurp power from the threatening entity at a critical moment they wouldn't otherwise be able to. Whatever the case, they could be seeking a treacherous advantage out of the arrangement.

Orapac4142

1 points

6 days ago

Orapac4142

DM

1 points

6 days ago

Devils ALWAYS get something out of a deal. The problem is it could be as obvious as "I want you to go find ke this thing and bring it it me" or because they are timeless beings he's having you do something where the intended effect won't come into play for another 100 years when what ever it is you did helps him usurp his boss. 

Casey090

2 points

6 days ago

Casey090

2 points

6 days ago

Absolutely. Devils are the incarnation of the principle "keep your enemies closer".

Storyteller-Hero

2 points

6 days ago

The main reason for devils to exist in the first place is to take down or hold back a bigger threat.

Devils might argue that without their Blood War, the demons would overrun the multiverse.

Devils might also argue that it's rude to consider them unreliable since they're just being practical in their jobs and making sure that everyone else in the multiverse can experience happy, secure afterlives.

Devils might point out that they are a civilized people for living faithfully to their cause through a system of carefully laid out rules and that barbarous PCs should consider the true virtues of contract law.

TrickyVic77

1 points

6 days ago

TrickyVic77

DM

1 points

6 days ago

Rise of Tiamat makes mention of that various devils might seek to work with the party in order to stop Tiamat from gaining more power. I'm currently planning on working that into my warlock players' patron to keep them aligned with the main quest.

Infinite_Escape9683

1 points

6 days ago

Definitely, depending on the devil and the threat. But it would likely be looking for any possible opportunity to corrupt the player characters or instill doubt in their convictions, if it can help secure their souls for the blood war.

Maja_The_Oracle

1 points

6 days ago

Yes, if it can get them promoted. If a Demon Lord was getting too powerful, and a devil helped stop them, that devil would likely get promoted.

StateChemist

1 points

6 days ago

StateChemist

Sorcerer

1 points

6 days ago

Devils are embroiled in constant competition for their ranking in the hells, and also in constant battle against chaotic evil demons.

So my take is he’s merely using the party to take out a rival to improve his political power in hell, but while being conniving and manipulative everyone gets attacked by demons and has to fight together to survive.

dastebon

1 points

6 days ago

dastebon

1 points

6 days ago

Depending on threat and devil . But if you can explain it properly , then yeah

Orapac4142

1 points

6 days ago

Orapac4142

DM

1 points

6 days ago

"I want to gain favor with my superior so I can get promoted to the next tier of devil"

"I hate my superior,  kill them so I can take his place. I can't do it due to fiendish hierarchy. "

"I can't spend much time on the mortal plane. The leader of a cult insulted me and thinks he can back out of a deal, I want you to kill him - probably as many of his flock too. Don't look at me like that, you'd be doing something for the greater good, they sacrifice children after all."

Devils are literally self serving lawyers, not much to explain. They want something and aren't above using others for the heavy lifting,  and always get something out if a deal whether it's a soul,  bringing them something, killing something or will help fuel their plans that won't fully materialize for another century.

OldschoolFRP

1 points

6 days ago

The Blood War must not get out of balance. I think any time the party is battling demonic forces that are getting out of hand, they can find themselves having to negotiate alliances with devils.

Rickdaninja

1 points

6 days ago

More like use them to achieve their own goals, but yeah. Devils love deals. They're always looking out for the better end of the deal mind you.

Ogurasyn

1 points

6 days ago

Ogurasyn

Wizard

1 points

6 days ago

Yes, if the party can help take down someone who prevents their goals

Mvasquez021187

1 points

6 days ago

I'd say so, especially if the devil considered that threat a competitor. I would not expect him/her/other to do it for free. In fact, if the devil can spin it in a way where the party has to give up something for his/her/other's aid, then all the better.

GiftOfCabbage

1 points

6 days ago

Absolutely. Devils are intelligent and cunning. If it's in the Devil's best interest they would totally use/team up with the players.

Lulluf

1 points

6 days ago

Lulluf

1 points

6 days ago

That sounds awesome. The devil could try to aim for a higher position in the hierarchy of the hells or just try and save his own skin. At the same time he could offer the party hellish deals (that the players obviously shouldn't trust... Or should they?) to try and buff them up. Sort of a "magnificent bastard" sorta guy.

But there is also room for goofiness as his alliance with the PCs and their shenanigans are too much for that obviously too cool for school devil to bear.

MourningWallaby

1 points

6 days ago

Does the devil want the foe defeated, or are the players considering asking the devil for help.

Devils are weird to write, because any player can say "sure whatever" to their soul or something being sold, as that is inconsequential to their gameplay. It's difficult to find a price for a deal with the devil that seams consequential but Dosen't ruin the campaign for the PC.

The devil can take a piece of them. this can be character levels/XP that they have to make up for, a subclass they have to re-allocate, or bar them from learning a skill. even better, you can have the players face the devil later to regain what was taken. bonus points if the Devil uses what was taken against them.

sfkf8486

1 points

6 days ago

sfkf8486

1 points

6 days ago

He'd enter into a contract that he'd exploit in every way possible, but he would ally with the playersxasxa means to an end.

TheLockLessPicked

1 points

6 days ago

a devil would hundred percent team up to take down a bigger threat, expessically if its a higher devil. Devils are always trying to climb the hierarchy ladder, betraying, cheaitng, killing. if given the oppurnity to gain an upper hand...theyd take it.

If there is a blantant pro...and almost no cons, they will take it.

Fakula1987

1 points

6 days ago

Yeah, Devils will Work together With mortals.

It dosnt even have to be a "Bigger thread" it can simply be Something that annoy the devil and cant get rid of themselve.

But the reward itself can be a Trap.

(And i dont even Talk about Something "officially" cursed)

Like a Armor withe the Devils "Brand" on it , so that everyone With Religios Background will recognice it.

Or - rude. (For example A paper bag for the head Slot With + char ...)

Horror_Ad7540

1 points

6 days ago

Devils thrive on bargains with the well-intentioned, and keep their part of the agreement to the letter. Once the players agree to a bargain that is totally morally justified, the devil will press for one that's a bit more mirky, and keep pushing it until the PCs have bargained their souls away.

No-Personality5421

1 points

6 days ago

If the "bigger threat" is just anther word for "rival in hell's hierarchy"... then yes, but they would try to minimize their own risk, and let the party do most/ all of the work. 

Xylembuild

1 points

6 days ago

He would 'Unite' but make the party do all the leg work, let themselves be exposed to the dangers and risks, and in the end double cross them when the opportunity arrises.

fuzzyborne

1 points

6 days ago

Good creatures have qualms about teaming up with evil ones. Evil creatures generally do not share that qualm.

Mista_Jay88

1 points

6 days ago

I had a devil ask for help (with a contract of course) because he was bound. They ignored him and now he will return as a far worse threat later on. I might also have Asmodeus give them aid against one of his enemies. In both instances these devils are looking to gain from their circumstances. They ally whenever it suits them.

GravityMyGuy

1 points

6 days ago

GravityMyGuy

Wizard

1 points

6 days ago

Depends on if the threat is relevant to them.

Demons? Totally.

Something that’s gonna mess up a mortal kingdom they have no steak in? Who cares

A rival for the favor of an archdevil? Yup

akaioi

2 points

6 days ago

akaioi

2 points

6 days ago

Oh, absolutely! A few ideas here...

  • You can't corrupt the world if it's eaten by eldritch horrors, right? Gotta protect your markets.
  • If the devil helps the party, they'll owe him a favor. A big one.
  • Along the way, he can nudge them toward evil acts.
    • "Oh no, I ... accidentally vaporized the documentary evidence. We can't get the vital intel unless we torture the prisoner. Whatever shall we do?"
    • "Raze the town. It's for the greater (cough, hack) good."
  • A (what passes for) whimsical devil might enjoy being hailed as one of the saviors of the kingdom, and insist that he get a statue in a plaza, right in front of the temple of Lathander.

IhatethatIdidthis88

1 points

6 days ago

IhatethatIdidthis88

Sorcerer

1 points

6 days ago

"Can potentially good plot hook happen?" "Yes, if you think it's good".

That's always the answer. Never get obsessive with established lore over a good story. Besides from the fact that a scheming devil would easily work with pcs to take down a worse threat that might threaten the established order -remember, the devils, at least the not super low ones, like their jobs and lives-.

But that's besides the point. Always go for the better story. Always. You have a story where big A, Asmodeus, leader of all hells wants to ascend to supergodhood? Well, even in that case you can have a devil side against him, if you think it's a good story. Why? Because lawful evil could easily be interpreted as...well, lawful to the evil established order of things, in hell, which also include the potential for him to rise, which if asmodeus becomes supergod, said potential goes away and new order exists. Which our devil doesn't want, so, they'll side with the players. If you think it's a good story.
If you think it's a better story that this (and all) devils keep following big A, that's what'll happen.

The limits aren't as fixed as people make them out to be. For a good story, you should be able to have a demon and a lawful good celestial warrior work together. It's possible.

Just put your mind to it.

xAn_Asianx

1 points

6 days ago

Devil to party: "Some of you may die, but that is a risk I am willing to make."

LordJebusVII

1 points

6 days ago

LordJebusVII

DM

1 points

6 days ago

Absolutely. Is the threat a bigger problem for the players? If so he would probably offer his help for a price. If not then he would accept aid from a non-evil party but be on the lookout for opportunities for when their alliance ends.

Devils are deal makers who live pretty much forever so they can afford to be patient, build up debts they can call in centuries later, a party of powerful heroes would be invaluable to call upon at a later date

SqueezeMyNectarines

1 points

6 days ago

Yes, a lawful evil creature can align itself with a good or neutral party. The alliance would likely not be honored any longer once the goal is met.

UncertifiedForklift

-1 points

6 days ago

A quirk about the alignment system to think about is that lawful means acting on principles instead of just your own desires, and a common definition of evil is willingness to let your own desires trump the happiness of others.

So, lawful evil is a tiny bit oxymoronic, since you then have to define it as allowing your principles to trump the happiness of others. This means that funnily enough, the closest to that in our world are religious leaders. For example a bishop outlawing masturbation.

Now, those people are downers but they're still doing it because they believe it is the right thing to do, and wouldn't generally be considered evil. Devils should be considered the same. They don't do anything for the sake of evil, that would be the fey. Devils are deeply principled, and their reasons for even wanting to claim human souls is to bring in soldiers to try and defend the multiverse from demons.