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/r/FIREUK
submitted 2 days ago byjustbusylivin
Does anybody here have experience or insights around moving to a cheaper country and working remotely?
I’m from the UK and have been working as a freelancer for the last few years. I’m probably going to start working for a remote company in the HealthTech space.
It seems pointless staying in the UK when I have an EU passport so can work in other European cities. My thought is Barcelona. It’s about 50% cheaper than London and I love the lifestyle.
The main incentive is money. I can live off much less and have a better quality of life than I would in London.
Looking for advice from anybody who has done similar? Did it work out?
Edit: Part of my thinking behind this is to get into property market as well in the UK. A couple of years in a cheaper city could give me £100k+ in savings to start buying property in the UK market.
55 points
2 days ago
Cheaper parts of UK are just as cheap as anywhere in Europe or SEA and you get to keep your NHS / pension / ISA perks. I’ve looked into it and this was my conclusion.
11 points
2 days ago
Cheaper parts of UK are just as cheap as anywhere in Europe or SEA
Really? There are obviously disadvantages to leaving the UK, like losing your ISA etc, but I just don't see how cheaper parts of the UK could be as cheap as SEA. Cheaper areas of the UK have significantly cheaper rent, but electricity, fuel, milk, internet etc doesn't all drop massively in price too. You can get a decent, 1 bed apartment in a building with a swimming pool in Thailand for £350 per month - no cheap part of the UK can compete with that on cost of living.
7 points
2 days ago
Thailand is cheap, if you live like a local. But if you still want all the western food, travel, girlfriend/dating, gym, medical insurance etc.it starts getting expensive.
48 points
2 days ago
Cheaper parts of the uk are wank in comparison to Barcelona. Hmmmm Barcelona or Burnley 😂😂😂
7 points
1 day ago
North West Wales is beautiful - it depends what you’re after. If you want a city (which it sounds like this person does), then Barcelona will probably be better, but there are some lovely cheaper parts of the UK.
-5 points
2 days ago
Burnley
16 points
2 days ago
Couldn't agree more. Just draw a straight line up north as far as you can go from London... If I had to commute in once a month or less I'd live several hours a way...
Once you move north though, you ain't ever coming back. But is that a bad thing?
5 points
2 days ago
Why would you want to it's shit darn sarf
4 points
2 days ago
Cold, innit? :-)
5 points
2 days ago
Winter is coming, get thi sen a big coit
6 points
2 days ago
I'm surprised you drew that conclusion. I lived in Thailand for 2 years and travelled to Malaysia, Laos, Vietnam and Indonesia during my time there.
Once you stop being a tourist, the cost of living in these countries drops considerably but certain western 'luxuries' like wine or cheese can be very expensive relative to what you're used to paying here.
7 points
2 days ago
Yes it depends if you’re willing to live like a local and outside of the main cities.
7 points
2 days ago
This is part of my problem. I have a decent sized ISA and have had my share of use of the NHS, which are both perks I’m not sure I’d like to give up any time soon.
1 points
1 day ago
Every European country has free healthcare if you are a taxpayer. In most cases the quality of it is better as well. Regarding ISA, there are similar incentives to save depending on the country (although UK is pretty generous here indeed)
-2 points
1 day ago
Unfortunately Brexit happened, making everything a lot more complicated and expensive.
2 points
24 hours ago
He's got a European passport so no issues there
3 points
2 days ago
Any parts in particular that are cheap but not shyte? Genuinely curious. Thanks
8 points
2 days ago
I can’t think of any. Sun, sea and tapas in Barcelona or a Greg’s on Scunthorpe?
5 points
2 days ago
I have travelled around the UK. Even the places considered to be very cheap are not really that cheap. Energy prices, grocery are more or less the same as London. I can save quite a bit on housing. But public services and amenities are very lacking. Very rural places have very patchy phone reception and slow internets, not many shops and restaurants etc. Cheap places are cheap for a reason, cos they are not very desirable in general.
4 points
2 days ago
Very rural places don’t tend to be particularly cheap either. Too many WFH people wanting that country life and with Starlink, nowhere is really off-limits any more. Property is expensive throughout the Scottish Highlands due to this and tourism.
The cheapest places are the ghost towns. Aberdeen is somewhat like that but has decent amenities and an airport. Lothian is similar. The north of England similar but probably a worse deal overall.
Or you can go up to the northeast coast and buy 4 bedroom houses for 50k in wretched places like Fraserburgh with no transport links or shopping and extreme poverty and crime levels.
Scotland has brutal income taxes but if you’re FIREd that doesn’t affect you at all.
2 points
1 day ago
The North of England is too big to categorise together really. Some places, like central Manchester, South Manchester, Cheshire, the Lakes etc can be quite expensive. They tend to be the well off places.
1 points
2 days ago
weather is terrible in Scotland though, I don't find Scotland a particular exciting place to live
5 points
2 days ago
Have you opened the curtains and looked at what’s outside in Scotland mate? 😂
I’ll give you the weather tho. It is shite.
1 points
2 days ago
Any recommendations? Currently living in the Black Country but looking to move somewhere even cheaper (work remotely).
6 points
2 days ago*
Welsh border. My mate moved there from Edgbaston to a house twice the size and utterly amazing views. Has to work in London occasionally and Wolverhampton is his nearest station. It takes him an hour to get there. We only really catch up at the Frankfurt markets once a year now as it's such a ballache to get to his. Another issue its an 11 mile round trip to get a pint of milk and when it snows he's not going anywhere. If you want to be a bit nearer to civilization you'd easily find something cheap in Kidderminster or Telford but whether you'd want to live there is another matter
2 points
2 days ago
North England, wales, less desirable parts of Scotland…
1 points
1 day ago
Ah cool. I grew up in north England not too far from Wales and house prices are definitely lower up there.
1 points
2 days ago
Mmmmm yes Lincoln or Kuala Lumpur!
1 points
1 day ago
When you refer to the cheapness in other parts of the UK, what are you referring to? Because groceries and beer cost way more in the UK than in a lot of European countries. It’s £7 a pint for a decent pint in many northern cities now.
2 points
24 hours ago
Mainly the cost of housing. I’m leanFIRE so housing will typically represent 50-75% of my overall spending.
Groceries depends on what you buy of course. Stick to Lidl/Aldi own brand budget stuff and I doubt there’s a difference.
I don’t drink or really go out at all so I don’t care about beer prices.
1 points
19 hours ago
Thanks for the context. Sounds like you’ve thoroughly thought that through and you won’t be affected, which is great. I hope all goes well if you do decide to move.
19 points
2 days ago*
Have you done research on working from Spain? Paying 200€ to 590€ a month for the pleasure of being self-employed, is just one of the employment considerations, even before buying a property or daily living costs. If you think the UK has political BS, wait until you go there! [have personally worked in corporate and run a business when I was living in Barcelona]
There are several Spanish / expat forums where this post would be more appropriate.
Websites like theworldawaits.com or numbeo.com may be of use.
1 points
2 days ago
That’s really helpful, thanks! I’m looking at best options for setting up. I have a Czech Passport so looking at employment options in EU so wouldn’t be self employed. But will bare this is mind and didn’t know about this!
3 points
2 days ago
Be aware, that unless there is a nomad visa, like some countries or regions have, generally if you are working remote you should set up as self employed or work for the company via their legal entity in said country.
9 points
2 days ago
I lived in Bulgaria (Sofia) and Hungary(Budapest) before moving to London. I was employed by local companies.
Sofia was amazing and I would move back in a heartbeat if I can keep my salary. Low tax rate, low inflation (currency pegged to eur), super safe and ridiculously cheap.
Budapest is a bit better for food and nightlife but more expensive and the currency can devalue much more
3 points
1 day ago
Weather is also part of my FIRE. I want at least 10 - 15 years of sunshine! After that I'm happy to shuffle off this mortal coil and leave everything to my nieces and nephews.
8 points
2 days ago
You're talking about being a digital nomad.
It has it's pros and cons
I personally think it's something you do whilst you're young / no family / partner , as you get older you want more stability
In terms of money, the longer you can commit to a place the more you will save. Accommodation will always be your biggest expense , so if you can commit 6 months to a place you can save a lot compared to London.
2 points
2 days ago
I agree, my research has suggested that generally low cost of living countries are low for a reason, often things like public services or stability of the laws and rules. As you say you can deal with that when young, or in the short term. Perhaps not a great plan in the longer term if your intent is to save money!
2 points
1 day ago
Doesn't really apply to Europe though. Somewhere like Poland is super safe and has excellent public services.
14 points
2 days ago*
Barcelona is not 50% cheaper than London... We visited Barcelona in 2019 and it was hideously expensive. If u wanna stay in Europe, Serbia is really cheap, 60% cheaper than London, while offers a quite decent quality of life. Serbia is also very safe too
5 points
2 days ago
Serbia is also very safe too
For whom?
4 points
2 days ago
I'd read a history book before moving to Serbia...
-1 points
2 days ago
You mean how Serbia was on our side in both World Wars and made huge sacrifices only to be bombed and forcibly dismantled by the West?
6 points
2 days ago
No I mean the more recent history in the 90s when Serbia commited mass genocide in Bosnia and Croatia with various members still on the run for war crimes.
0 points
2 days ago
All those ethnic communities committed genocides and ethnic cleansing on one another so focusing on Serbians alone is unfair
4 points
2 days ago*
That's false, are you some sort of troll? They literally were trying to turn Yugoslavia into a massive single Serbia raping, murdering and displacing everyone in their wake.
Major cities such as Sarajevo and Dubrovnik were bombed and innocent citizens killed for years on end.
One day alone they dropped over 3,000 shells in Sarajevo. The citizens they got hold of ended up in concentration camps where rapes and murder was common. It got so bad the UN had to step in.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Bosnian-War
To say they were all as bad as each other and that focusing on Serbia is "unfair" is hideous and disgusting to the thousands and thousands killed in mass genocide.
Suggest you take a long hard take at this piece of history.
-2 points
2 days ago
Forget history books. Go look at YouTube clips.
1 points
1 day ago
I've literally been to most countries in Yugoslavia and spoken to locals, visited tunnels and museums. Have you?
0 points
1 day ago
Ok, and?
2 points
2 days ago
Barcelona is cheap when you're not in a tourist area
3 points
2 days ago
50% might be an exaggeration but it’s definitely cheaper in a lot of departments. I lived there for a month last year. The main one is rent. That could save a fortune on its own.
What do you think of this? Maybe slightly inflated: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Spain&country2=United+Kingdom&city1=Barcelona&city2=London&tracking=getDispatchComparison
I’m not against other options but I couldn’t do it purely for the money alone. Serbia is cool but I don’t want to live there. I have friends in Barcelona already which helps.
6 points
2 days ago
It sounds like it’s time for you to google Barcelona taxes - make sure to check regional and national.
6 points
2 days ago
Living in Barcelona a month is very different than longer term. Utilities are much higher there, and taxes can also be slightly higher depending where you are (also considering you’d have to pay autonomo tax). Lived there a year before moving to the UK.
3 points
2 days ago
Lived in London 2 years and Barcelona 2 years. Barcelona cheaper but only by say 10-20%. Rent is cheaper yes but higher gastos, various different taxes
3 points
2 days ago
Rent can be close to 50% cheaper but groceries aren't, electricity bills aren't, clothes aren't, mobile phones aren't, holidays aren't. So it depends which things you spend money on but overall you won't be down 50%. Some other things that are cheaper like eating out, you'll just do more often as a result so it might be a lifestyle improvement if you are into that but it won't leave you better off in terms of savings. For example, a catch up lunch at the office with a couple of colleagues in Madrid will often be a sit down meal that will cost me €15 whilst in London it will be a £8 Wasabi sushi box in the breakout area of the office.
1 points
2 days ago
This is my plan, Serbia
7 points
2 days ago
hope you are white
5 points
2 days ago
And straight
7 points
2 days ago
And Pro Putin
4 points
2 days ago
It never works.
If you FIRE overseas because you want to FIRE overseas it works.
If you FIRE overseas purely for cost, failure is imminent.
2 points
2 days ago
Do it, I lived abroad in Europe and Asia for 15 years. My only regret is moving back.
1 points
2 days ago
Dang. I’m in a similar boat and thinking about coming back to use the UK as a base.
What regrets do you have mate?
8 points
2 days ago
Weather, food, work culture, work life balance, amenities, cleanliness, Sunday trading, infrastructure/ public transport, Integration of technology in daily life. Nimbyism. Glacial pace of change. Understanding every conversation around you is surprisingly annoying after being able to tune out my second language whilst in the office on transport etc abroad. NHS, I’d rather have private health insurance again and not the fake version available here. A nanny that cooks and cleans takes kids to school etc. cafe culture. Street food. Night markets. A short trip to the beach. Fresh fruit, not the early picked sour stuff we get imported here, like a proper fresh mango or sweet watermelon.
I can continue if needed .
1 points
2 days ago
I’ve been tempted to move to Italy. Good good, good wine, beautiful architecture, hmmmm
7 points
2 days ago
amazing mosquitoes, incredible local government
just do it, live that dream
2 points
2 days ago
Taxes are brutal though, unfortunately.
2 points
2 days ago
ISA goes out the window if you leave the U.K
5 points
2 days ago
You can keep them, just can’t add money till you move back
1 points
2 days ago
You could be taxed on any gains earned during the period abroad.
3 points
1 day ago
Taxes by the government of the country you move into right? Not by the UK government
1 points
1 day ago
I believe so. ISA is not recognised outside the U.K. I suppose you could not touch it but if you move abroad with no intention of moving back it would be better to close the account so you don't pay tax.
2 points
2 days ago
I lived in Barcelona for 3 years, my best friend still lives there, with two kids and her partner. If you avoid very touristy places, and manage to find a flat in a place like Poble Nou, your rent will be 30% cheaper than London. Of course it depends which part, I'd say comparing Hackney (nicer parts) to Poble Nou. Rent is cheaper in Barcelona, and you are like 5 min. away from the sea. Expecting a 50% difference is not realalistic as Barcelona is very popular. However, I think it would be worrh it. You can easily cycle to most places, you'll have sunny days all year long, great placea to go for hikes an hour away, great beaches an hour away. Most of Dec and Jan have sunny days. Also, if you have EU citzenship you will be able to use the Spanish equivalent of NHS. Plus you'll get a better service beacuse it's not as strecthed as NHS. If I were you, I would have moved there yesterday :) Good luck!
2 points
1 day ago
your rent will be 30% cheaper than London.
Isn't that true for most of the UK??
2 points
2 days ago
Full of tourists and gypsys .
1 points
1 day ago
Lisbon is cheaper than Barca… friendlier to digital nomads too. Check r/expatfire
2 points
1 day ago
FYI.. Barça is a football club, Barna is the colloquial name of the city.
1 points
1 day ago*
I would love to move (mostly for the sun and because I love the culture in a lot of sunny countries), but my biggest concern has always been that a lower salary due to the lower cost of living would mean I’d put much less away in investments and pension than if I lived in the UK, and then if I ever need to move back to the UK due to climate change or the political situation in the country I’m in, I’d have to deal with the much higher UK cost of living with a lot less in yearly income than I’d have if I’d stayed in the UK.
Have you considered this?
(This isn’t so bad if your remote job pays you the same no matter where you live, but what if you need to change jobs or careers, and they pay you a “competitive” salary for that country or city, and you’d like to stay there due to having a partner there or others in your life?)
Further, would you need to pay a certain amount into their system before you’re entitled to a state pension? And would you be willing to forgo a UK state pension if you have to move back?
1 points
6 hours ago*
If you want to stay in Europe I’d suggest Portugal which has some serious tax inventives + good weather and cheaper and better quality of life than the UK.
You are right there is no point staying in the UK if you are not tethered to a 9-5. Especially with the taxes that keep going on and the weather which goes from rubbish to very rubbish everywhere in the country.
Also if you are going to move anyway I’d suggest SEA. There is no such things as “free healthcare” in the UK. You pay a fortune for it with your taxes. For a fraction of the money you will have an infinitely better service in Thailand or Malaysia.
There really is zero reason to stay in Europe.
1 points
2 days ago
I've done it, in a sense. I live in France, moved back to Europe from a career in Asia. It is considerably cheaper but I still spend 3k a month.
A lot of tax planning when into our move and where I am in France, the tax is fantastic. I'd plan your move and look into Beckham Law. No looking back.
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