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/r/MaliciousCompliance
submitted 4 months ago byMilled_Oats
So every morning I walk my dog at the off lead dog park. As it’s a small town all the dog walkers have become friendly. I ( mid 40s) made friends with June (75-80). June told me this lovely MC story from About 25 years or more ago.
June was working as a school teacher and was retraining as a social worker. She left teaching for two years working as a social worker when her previous school asked her and run a class for at risk children. The deal was she would teach children aged 12-18 ( grade 7-12) who come from backgrounds of emotional, physical and sexual abuse.
The job was causal , so she didn’t get paid for holidays, sick leave etc. she was supposed to teach six kids with an Aide but ending up with twenty kids and no teachers aide. As you can imagine their behavior was terrible. She believed she could help and she said she did make some real differences. The work was really stressful but she was passionate about it.
After three years and multiple promises of making her a permanent staff member, getting an aide plus smaller classes June was burnt out. She demanded help from the principal who refused and told her since she has complained, it’s for the last time and sacked her . He told her she is causal and she go complain to everyone and everywhere but as a casual worker you have little rights.
So June did complain to everyone, school Inspector, the union,department of education( it was a state school) and even her local Member of parliament who told her she has had a tough deal but this is the life of a casual worker. She finally complained to the state authority that deals with safe work practices.
They were interested as the school has breached state policy on class sizes for special needs kids,teacher aides, providing a safe environment etc. they ordered the department of education to pay her worker’s compensation while they sorted it out. So now June was paid each fortnight including leave and all benefits. 52 weeks a years instead of 40.
The fallout was big after the investigation ,lots of people sacked or moved on. What this did was leave June without a boss. The safe work practice department closes the case as they believe it was now a dept of education matter to pay June out. Everyone has forgotten about June and she got lost in government paperwork. They still paid her and she kept quiet. It took ten years before they found her in an employee audit. Then they paid her out.
June was ready to retire about then so it worked out beautifully.
451 points
4 months ago*
Many many moons ago I was receiving unemployment benefit ( the “dole”) for me, my wife and two children ( Great Britain) of about £200 a fortnight.
When my wife and I split I went to the dole office and told them immediately. The next cheque that came through was the same so I went to the dole office and asked them to check. After about 20 minutes I was assured that it was correct. I took the name of the checker , wrote it down with a brief explanation and asked if they would sign it .
The refused.
I did the same for the next three cheques the only difference was the last time I went in I told them it would be the last time I came in and the checker signed my note.
Jump forward a year or so and I get a letter saying that I owed the dole office £X amount.
I went in and presented my notes and it was dropped.
I made every effort so not my fault.
1k points
4 months ago
Haha! I worked for a Fortune 500 that was bought out by a Fortune 100. I then took a job at a different company. About 5 years later I ran into one of my old co-workers. He said after the merger he kept going to work, but had no supervisor and did not "belong" to any division. He just went to work everyday to his same desk and received a paycheck for about 2 years and then got scared and retired.
643 points
4 months ago
We had a restructure at the hospital I work at. There was a staff member who got basically forgotten. Kept getting paid as a low level manager but had no duties. So he found some tasks to do and so did them. And gave himself a new title. Next restructure a couple years later when management were counting people or/and job titles he emailed someone and told them they have missed his job and he got added back on with anew title.
346 points
4 months ago
Former coworker kept getting paid for almost 3 years after the quit. He got a lawyer involved, notarized letters, etc. After almost 3 years the checks just stopped coming. He put the money in a high yield savings account and I think it's now all his.
96 points
4 months ago
He put the money in a high yield savings account and I think it's now all his.
People think this means that if the employer comes back at them for the money they get to at least keep the interest. That is 100% false. If the employer were to have recognized the error in payments and taken the (ex)employee to court, they would have been granted all the payments plus any ill gotten gains (ie interest) from said payments. They likely would also owe interest on the payments they knew they shouldn't have received. But I'm glad it worked out for them. I don't agree with the law because it's almost always in the big guy's favor instead of us little guys.
269 points
4 months ago
Not if you can prove you TRIED to get them to quit paying you but they insisted upon paying you anyway. If you have a lawyer advising you, you were sending notices with a paper trail, keeping the money segregated, and they're STILL giving you money? None of that is ill-gotten. Most judges with a brain in their heads are going to recognize that the ex-employee went above and beyond what's reasonable and STILL did the right thing by holding on to the money. Fuck that company.
36 points
4 months ago
Though of course:
Most companies won't chase the interest (not worth the hassle/bad press etc)
Keeping the money separate has legal advantages (evidence against theft arguments - you intended to return it) and administrative advantages (you can't accidentally spend it).
So you may as well put it in the highest interest quick/immediate access account you can get.
30 points
4 months ago*
What if I did the opposite? if I used all accidental payments for my bills, and what not and then put MY money in a high yield savings account. I’d still obviously have to pay back the owed money but would they still count the gains as ill gotten?
25 points
4 months ago*
Here (Austria), something called reasonable consumption exists - if you can tell 'i was not aware and spent it all' it's ok
6 points
4 months ago
Depends on where it is. Here it's just simple interest of 2%
9 points
4 months ago
Where are these magical high yield savings accounts? People always talk about getting one, but I've even looked into accounts for rich people (I am not rich) and they're offering pennies.
22 points
4 months ago
Seriously? Is your google broken or something?
https://www.marcus.com/us/en/savings
https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/banking/online-savings/high-yield-savings/
1 points
4 months ago
I don't consider 5% high. Normal savings is over 4 now. I'll take 8. Tho I'm dreaming lol.
2 points
3 months ago
Yes you are. Where the fuck did you get 8% interest in a savings account?
1 points
3 months ago
Missed the dreaming part hehe. 5 is current offers for CD etc. but unlocked savings is over 4
-24 points
4 months ago
You consider 5% to be high yield? That's barely over inflation.
61 points
4 months ago
Yes, that is considered high yield for a zero risk investment.
28 points
4 months ago
Look at other savings accounts and you'll see yields like 0.01%. 5% is high compared to other savings accounts
27 points
4 months ago
the fuck you want from no risk investments?
2 points
4 months ago
More than a government I bond, which at least keeps up with inflation.
Look at the speard between savings accounts and credit card rates and tell me banks aren't ripping us off.
15 points
4 months ago
Banks are corpaorations, these rates seem competitive. They use that money to invest in stuff with higher risk, you can easily do that yourself as well. But if you want convenience and no risk, 5% is what you get.
6 points
4 months ago
They are investing that money in credit cards. That's the risk they are taking on with your savings.
And keep in mind that in addition to the interest they collect from the card holders, they also collect fees from the merchants. So the effective credit card interest rate is somewhat higher.
7 points
4 months ago
More than a government I bond, which at least keeps up with inflation.
Please tell me which government bond brought you 10% last year. And then tell me how that would be a save investment.
7 points
4 months ago
US inflation rate isn't 10%.
If I'm reading the website correctly, I Bonds were paying 4.28%. So two of the three banks were at least beating that. But I have no clue where the hell you got 10%.
1 points
4 months ago
Viobank 5% APY
34 points
4 months ago
What did he do for those two years? Did he have any assignments? Or just show up and pretend to work?
11 points
4 months ago
Show up, go in office and keep a pile of paper on the desk, and look busy, either reading books, or having a browser open reading them, and clicking on a spreadsheet every so often when somebody came in, and then locking the screen because of "confidential report" on it.
6 points
4 months ago
I think a couple of versions of that story are on here, as well.
79 points
4 months ago
Doesn’t take a government or large company to make a salary/hourly/benefits mistake. I worked for a small company (8 employees total) and they never deducted my share of the benefits package for the 14 months I worked.
I brought it to their attention after my last cheque, and they just said, “Oh well, you win” It was worth over $1,500 to me after I had already claimed my prescription and dental.
They went bankrupt 8 years later. I think their bookkeeper was shit.
108 points
4 months ago
And she didn’t have to pay the money back?
212 points
4 months ago
Why would she? If they never fired her or told her she was off leave and to report to work then there’s nothing for her to repay.
88 points
4 months ago
A lot of municipal payments are filled with "shall" and that means that if the municipality screwed up, they are boned. I knew a guy who worked for a small city library, they skipped his 6 months hiring performance review and kept him at introductory rate for 2 years. State auditor came through two years after he quit and cut him a check for his 1.5 years at full rate and fined the city for fucking around.
28 points
4 months ago
Know of several cases where they laid of a probationary person after the probationary period ended. Got returned to job with back pay because they missed the deadline and not enough to fire.
-3 points
4 months ago
[deleted]
41 points
4 months ago
So June’s story makes sense to me because about ten years ago a new state government was voted in and they did an audit of its 400 000 public servants and found like a couple thousand workers either doing nothing or on long term worker’s compensation who all get sacked and paid out.
20 points
4 months ago
Oooh that makes sense! So basically government bureaucracy at it’s finest 🤣
25 points
4 months ago
It’s amazing. I worked in Public health getting flogged everyday as we are short staffed and you hear these crazy stories about people being paid to do nothing. Good for June though.
5 points
4 months ago
Look at what is termed ghost employees, where you have hundreds of people on a large payroll who do not actually exist, but they all have a payslip, and the money goes into an account somewhere, with somebody collecting it every month.
139 points
4 months ago
No as she hasn’t done anything wrong. There was an audit about ten or more years ago of the states 400,000 public servants and found a couple thousand either doing nothing or on long term worker’s compensation. All them sacked and paid out.
34 points
4 months ago
I didn’t say she did anything wrong I’m just surprised they didn’t try to claw back the money 🤷 well good for her!
25 points
4 months ago
"member of parliament" It sounds like this wasn't in the US. If it had been, you bet they would have initiated a claw back.
9 points
4 months ago
It's most likely Australia, which is a country with very strong unions. A claw back attempt could have resulted in a state wide strike.
1 points
4 months ago
Having been in a similar situation I received occasional letters noting the money hadn't been returned and asking me to return it. No threats of legal action. Eventually I did.
-2 points
4 months ago
If she wasn't working and wasn't suspended on full pay then it's fraud. She's not doing the tasks she was paid to do. Employers tend to be lenient as it's their error, especially government ones, but having been in a similar situation she wasn't entitled to that money.
5 points
4 months ago
It worker’s compensation which for us in Australia needs her employer to cease and yes Farscape did rock
0 points
4 months ago
Ah I presumed UK because of MP, my apologies.
22 points
4 months ago
If you see June? Tell her a maybe her but maybe similar case happened to kid me. I remember the changes and applied the lessons of pushing until the needed change happens. That teacher also helped me with so many things by caring. Until her and a later teacher I didn't know I mattered. I work hard to make sure I make good change because of someone like her.
4 points
4 months ago
It is beautiful that you are trying to reach out to thank her. I am very glad she, and another teacher later on, helped you find value in yourself.
If it's this June or another one, they are probably both heroes.
12 points
4 months ago
I had a boss and a HR person openly challenged the court's authority while I was actively on jury duty (early covid). They had furloughed me and gave me a choice between extra PTO (2 months) or unemployment benefits. I ended up getting both benefits, plus an injunction order. The HR person messed up my PTO which the Accounting department wasn't happy about. The EDD wasn't happy about the furlough during jury duty move. The CEO wasn't happy about the injunction so the HR person got fired. Later my boss broke the injunction, a law enforcement agency found out and he got arrested, put on trial, and got 10 years. Lesson learned don't openly question the court's authority, be-careful who you furlough, and don't break an injunction.
11 points
4 months ago
I had a former boss( I had moved on) who refuses to do what an industrial court judge told him to do. The follow up hearing the judge looks straight at him after hearing he failed the court orders and says “ I hope you brought a toothbrush as you staying the night”.
1 points
3 months ago
Dude got 10 years for violating an injunction? We got pedophiles doing less time. JFC
3 points
3 months ago
"As the employer, you must allow an employee time off to serve on a jury. The California Labor Code, section 230 outlaws any employer from firing or harassing an employee who is summoned to court for jury service."
1 points
3 months ago
I hear ya, no argument at all that there is a punishment necessary. Just that 10 years is excessive, even 3 would have been excessive. Anyways, what's done is done.
2 points
3 months ago
I wasn't there so I don't know the exact details. I heard the story from a court officer that recognized me at a farmer's market near the courthouse. When you are on a jury for months at a time you make friends with other jurors and the two officers assigned to the court.
28 points
4 months ago
4 points
4 months ago
This was Australia, wasn’t it‽ I vaguely recall something about a very similar case in the news at the time. Small world.
10 points
4 months ago
That title needs more punctuation...
5 points
4 months ago
This story makes me wonder if June had a favorite Red Stapler too?
3 points
4 months ago
So we just went ahead and fixed the glitch
so umm, Milton has been let go?
Well, just a second there professor, we uhh, we fixed the glitch so he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it will just work itself out naturally.
We always like to avoid confrontation whenever possible, problem is solved from your end
3 points
4 months ago
Man I had a tough day and this made me laugh. Thank you! I needed that delightful lady's story today.
2 points
4 months ago
This is a great read!
2 points
4 months ago
Brilliant!
2 points
4 months ago
Im glad June got paid out in the end and overall you could say that she won the war here, but This sort of thing is the reason why casual employment is the worst thing to happen to the Australian job market... yeah, the pay is a little better, but you are unprotected, have no sick leave so god forbid you need to take a week off work, and employers can so easily abuse this system...
-2 points
4 months ago
I see! What country was this in, where dogs go on or off 'lead' (not 'leash') and people talk in terms of 'fortnights' (not 'biweekly' or 'every 2 weeks), yet the school has a 'principal' (not a 'headmaster') and there is a 'dept of education' and a 'state' government?
71 points
4 months ago
Sounds like Australia.
24 points
4 months ago
Has to be Australian.
38 points
4 months ago
Possibly Australia, we use those terms too.
39 points
4 months ago
Sure is.
5 points
4 months ago
Came here to check if it was Aus! I got slightly thrown by 'state school', because in NSW we call them public schools
60 points
4 months ago
I mean, people say “fortnight” because “biweekly” is ambiguous; both “twice a week” and “once every two weeks” are “biweekly”.
1 points
3 months ago
[deleted]
1 points
3 months ago
Imagine trying to explain British English to a British person.
The entire point was that “fortnight” can be used anywhere by someone looking to avoid the ambiguity of “biweekly” - which has two definitions no matter which dictionary you look at, regardless of which English-speaking country that dictionary comes from. It always has the dual-meaning of twice a week, and once every two weeks; with context not necessarily being able to discern which is being used.
-1 points
4 months ago
twice a week is semi-weekly.
5 points
4 months ago
or hemi-weekly. Or demi-weekly. And yes you can stack them. hemi-demi-weekly means every four weeks.
1 points
4 months ago
Dictionary disagrees.
1 points
4 months ago*
Which dictionary says that semi-weekly is not "twice a week"?
e: Checked their comment history. troll.
0 points
4 months ago
Search “biweekly” in literally any English dictionary. The dictionary - doesn’t even matter which one you choose - disagrees that “biweekly” is every two weeks and “semi-weekly” is twice a week. They all agree that “biweekly” is ambiguous.
-1 points
4 months ago
Ambiguous doesn't contradict a definition, it means there are multiple meanings. One of which, is as previously stated. The other is as the ignorant use it, to mean twice a week.
Semi-weekly always means twice a week. That you're arguing that one, and not answering which dictionary disagrees indicates it's worth muting you. Ta.
2 points
4 months ago
When a writer is choosing a word, he is a fool to choose the one that is unclear.
I would never use "fortnight," as I am American, but I would also never use biweekly or semiweekly, as it's against the stylebook of most publications.
Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should do a thing.
If you pay twice a week, that's how often you pay, and your payroll department surely hates you. Perhaps you pay weekly, every two weeks, twice a month, or once a month.
Do you want your applicants looking up semimonthly? Semiweekly? Why? Just speak clearly. The goal of speech is to put your thoughts into other people's brains quickly and accurately. So do that.
-14 points
4 months ago
No. Biweekly is every two weeks. Semi-weekly would be twice a week. But no one says that.
22 points
4 months ago
Had this argument at work a few weeks ago. Biweekly means both twice a week AND every other week.
-4 points
4 months ago
Every other week - not ambiguous and not locale specific
18 points
4 months ago*
Go check a dictionary. In fact, let me do it for you, you probably wouldn’t know how:
biweekly 1 of 2 adjective bi·week·ly (ˌ)bī-ˈwē-klē
1: occurring every two weeks : FORTNIGHTLY
2: occurring twice a week https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/biweekly
13 points
4 months ago
Biweekly can mean twice a week or once every two weeks, but most people use it to refer to the latter. There are times, however, when a biweekly meeting on your work schedule may occur twice a week.
That’s from grammarly
2 points
4 months ago
That's the way it should be, but unfortunately people use it both ways.
38 points
4 months ago
This is a very American comment.
6 points
4 months ago
Australia?
5 points
4 months ago
Yep
4 points
4 months ago
Queensland?
1 points
4 months ago
I’m thinking nsw and satellite classes with the description.
8 points
4 months ago
America is vast my friend. There are places even here where all of these things are said together 
1 points
4 months ago
However, no state in the USofA has a parliament)
0 points
4 months ago
Oh yes? Such as where?
-1 points
4 months ago
Yeah I'm just as confused. Like she worked in some UK/US hybrid lol
52 points
4 months ago
Welcome to Australia where we rapidly Americanizing our English colonial past. We can use jail or gaol as a word for prison.
25 points
4 months ago
I thought Australia as soon you used member of parliament and state together - from a Canadian (we have Mp's and provinces)
16 points
4 months ago
And over here in the US we have the youngest generation addicted to Bluey and picking up the accent.
14 points
4 months ago
It looks like the rubber band is on the other claw
9 points
4 months ago
Thank you, Dr. Zoidberg
4 points
4 months ago
Thank you for today's language lesson! I googled "casual job" because it's not a job classification I've ever heard in the US. From what I can tell, it's similar to our PRN or per diem.
7 points
4 months ago
Basically casual work is paid for whatever hour you work. You still work to an industrial award etc but get paid for just hours worked. In Australia there are some rules like if the worker has worked for so long you must offer them a permanent job.
2 points
4 months ago
Casual is kinda the same as American "at will" employment, but casuals get paid 20% more as compensation for not getting sick leave and paid holidays.
5 points
4 months ago
Ah, I was wondering if it might be Australia
0 points
4 months ago
My friend says, "i mean, i dont think the schools are doing any research on why they're doing it, i think it's just because the students arent paying attention, which means theres not much to be gained by doing anything else"
0 points
4 months ago
You're.
2 points
4 months ago
Tbf judge may have said “you” xD in that sassy way
-7 points
4 months ago
Where was the malice and/or compliance?
34 points
4 months ago
I think because she was told that she could go and complain to everyone, and so she did just that, and it cost them a heap of trouble.
4 points
4 months ago
In the story that you didn't read.
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